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Desertracer
03-27-2009, 1:17 PM
About 2 months ago, I sent the DOJ their Automated Firearms System Record Request (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AFSPrivateCitizen.pdf) form because I was curious about the handguns that were “registered” to me through the DROS process. I received their reply in the mail today and I was surprised to see 7 handguns that I sold years ago (transferred through CA FFLs) on the list. I know that I can send the DOJ their Notice Of No Longer In Possession (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/BOF4546NLIP0209.pdf) form, but it asks for detailed information (name of transferee, address, date of transfer) related to the disposition of the handguns. I have that info for only 1 or 2 of the handguns in question.

Issue number 2 is that 1 handgun that I currently own is not on their “registered” list. The handgun was imported into the U.S. in 2/93 and I purchased it through a kitchen table FFL sometime after that. I can send the DOJ their Firearm Ownership Record (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf) voluntary registration form, but they want the date acquired. I would guess that I purchased it in 1993 or 1994, but I do not have an exact date. I do not have a CCW permit, so I really don’t have to register it, but I would feel better doing so; especially if the FFL did not transfer it correctly. Another concern with this handgun is that I legally possess 4 “regular capacity” magazines for it; not really an issue, but does confuse it some…

I value the opinions of CALGUNS members more than risking getting misinformation from the DOJ. So, how would you handle the 2 issues? Thank you in advance for your replies.

hoffmang
03-27-2009, 8:44 PM
You are not obligated at all to register the unregistered handgun. The only benefit to registering it is that if you illegally CCW it and it's registered you get charged with a misdemeanor instead of a felony.

The DROS process does not delete handguns from your record. Irwin Nowick has a bill that will start to do that. I personally send in the "No Longer In Possession" form myself.

-Gene

M. Sage
03-27-2009, 8:58 PM
Hey, they got the NLIP back up on their site? Sweet, I needed that form.

hoffmang
03-27-2009, 9:12 PM
Hey, they got the NLIP back up on their site? Sweet, I needed that form.

Yeah - apparently it was just a form change. We had it looked into.

-Gene

TheBundo
03-27-2009, 9:23 PM
You are not obligated at all to register the unregistered handgun. The only benefit to registering it is that if you illegally CCW it and it's registered you get charged with a misdemeanor instead of a felony.

The DROS process does not delete handguns from your record. Irwin Nowick has a bill that will start to do that. I personally send in the "No Longer In Possession" form myself.

-Gene

So what exactly does this mean, that if you sell a used handgun, it stays in your name? Is it also listed in the new person's name, sort of "dual-registered"? And if you buy a used handgun, it doesn't get registered to you?

hoffmang
03-27-2009, 9:39 PM
So what exactly does this mean, that if you sell a used handgun, it stays in your name? Is it also listed in the new person's name, sort of "dual-registered"? And if you buy a used handgun, it doesn't get registered to you?

If you sell a handgun and don't submit the "No Longer in Possession" form, the handgun will come up on your AFS and on the new owner's AFS.

I like keeping the response to the NLIP form because it ends any law enforcement inquiry into a gun I no longer own.

-Gene

Desertracer
03-28-2009, 8:41 AM
If you sell a handgun and don't submit the "No Longer in Possession" form, the handgun will come up on your AFS and on the new owner's AFS.

I like keeping the response to the NLIP form because it ends any law enforcement inquiry into a gun I no longer own.

-Gene

Most of the handguns that I have sold since the 1/1/91 PPT DROS started were not on the list that I received from the DOJ; probably 10 or 12 in addition to the previous 7. Why wouldn't they still be on my AFS?

Thank you for the information Gene!

hoffmang
03-28-2009, 11:43 AM
Most of the handguns that I have sold since the 1/1/91 PPT DROS started were not on the list that I received from the DOJ; probably 10 or 12 in addition to the previous 7. Why wouldn't they still be on my AFS?


If, when you acquired the firearm, it wasn't registered to you in the first place (primarily because it wasn't required to be registered to you back in the day), then it wasn't there to hang around after you transferred it to the next guy. Those guns will only show up on his AFS.

-Gene

hawk1
03-28-2009, 11:55 AM
So ultimately with the OP not being able to supply the info needed on the NLIP form he can't do anything to fix their mistake?

Looks like it may be a better choice to never check in the first place?

hoffmang
03-28-2009, 12:27 PM
So ultimately with the OP not being able to supply the info needed on the NLIP form he can't do anything to fix their mistake?

I'm pretty sure he's saying that there are firearms that he sold via PPT that were not on his AFS. I was saying that was because they were never on his AFS and were first entered to the AFS system as being registered to the guy he sold them to.

-Gene

xLusi0n
03-28-2009, 12:43 PM
Sorry to hijack, but what if you're out of state and came to visit with your pistol. If pulled over and the LEO runs the serial, does it check Federal database to make sure it's registered to me? Or only state?

And I know long guns aren't "registered" just DROS'd, so the only way LEO can see who a rifle belonged to is to trace the sales from MFG to the dealer and that info is only kept on paper for 7 years right?

CCWFacts
03-28-2009, 12:47 PM
What if you got rid of a gun but don't even know the full details (name / address of recipient, exact date of transfer)? I have that situation with one handgun and I want to do the NLIP on it, but I've put it off because I don't know the full details of the transaction. That was before I realized I need to be super-careful and keep detailed records on such things.

Desertracer
03-28-2009, 1:20 PM
I'm pretty sure he's saying that there are firearms that he sold via PPT that were not on his AFS. I was saying that was because they were never on his AFS and were first entered to the AFS system as being registered to the guy he sold them to.

-Gene

Sorry for the confusion...the 10 or 12 handguns that I sold that are not on my AFS, should be, according to the information that you have provided; they were purchased and sold through CA FFLs. I do have handguns acquired through PPT before the 1/1/91 PPT DROS requirement that are not on my AFS, which is understandable.

maxicon
03-28-2009, 1:42 PM
Here's a sample of the results from my request a few years back. The output may have changed, but at the time, their data quality left much to be desired.

For example, on the sheet posted, my S&W 65-2 is listed as a 652. There are other entries where the data is unclear or misleading.

I also have guns listed that I've gotten rid of. Presumably, when they run a gun's serial, they'd get multiple owners. My Glock 17 would come up with the previous owner's name, my name, and the guy I traded it to's name.

http://www.maxicon.com/guns/pics/dros_report-1a.jpg

http://www.maxicon.com/guns/pics/dros_report-2a.jpg