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View Full Version : AB357, let's help


nicki
03-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Gave a call to Steve Knights office today about AB357, good conversation, they are planning to line up speakers, it is going to be a tough battle.

Staffer is aware of equal protection issues, but is not aware of how deep things really are.

I made a friendly suggestion that we have "diversity on the witness panel".

Assemblyman Knight has limited staff resources, wouldn't it be great if they would accept OUR help on this because we do have alot of talent on this.

This bill could open the Pandora's box and what I would like to do and I hope most of you feel the same way is to give testimony so that a vote against us is Political Suicide.

Some things that I see we must address with testimony.

1. Current ccw policy is racist
2. Current ccw policy is homo and trans phobic.
3. Current policy conflicts with Art 1 Sec 7b, equal protection.

4. Tie that Gay marriage isn't the only area where the state has a peasant class. The Gays have been making a big stink on this on Prop 8, the tie in could help sway some our way.

5. The false notion that everyone will carry, the truth is only 1 to 2 percent of thepopulation will carry.

6. Sheriff corruption, Lou Blanas(former sacramento sheriff)

7. Officer safety, truth is CCW holders have saved cops on occassion.

8. Sheriffs should not have temptation of using CCW process as a means to pad their campaign warchest.

9.. Enviromental issues. Guess who signs off on enviromental impact reports on real estate developments and guess which group of citizens seem to always have good cause.

10. Typical reasons permits are issued, carry large sums of money and documented death threats.

a. So if you get a permit to carry even though it is illegal to use deadly force to specifically protect property.

b. A person has documented death threats, but has to wait a few months to get their CCW permit. I guess the person making threats holds off on carrying out the death threat till the permit is issued?

We have a hostile legislature and we have no choice on gun issues, we may have a shot with "Equal Protection".

Nicki

davedog665
03-27-2009, 10:59 AM
How do i help i just read this off of http://www.metaldogtactical.com/ What about ab225?

7x57
03-27-2009, 11:42 AM
We have a hostile legislature and we have no choice on gun issues, we may have a shot with "Equal Protection".


You wouldn't welcome my help, I guess, as I'd vote for prop 8 and donate to it more eagerly than the last time now that I've seen just how much hatred the other side has for every single ancestor that my boys have on either side of the family. Why tie marriage to the right of self-preservation, which *is* an equal-protection issue as long as the state has guns (and therefore is an issue for anyone who may face violence regardless of the reason).

But then, I'm in California, and I am now violating my intent not to mix topics on Calguns.

That said, Equal protection is definitely going to be an issue on AB 225 (definition of good cause) as well, and probably sells better than anything else. If we lose 357, it may make 225 appear more "mainstream" so we may still not have wasted the effort. A threat is a threat, but I won't mind if the final version of 225 redundantly specifies threats because of sexual orientation. It shouldn't have to mention threats to Mormons (which I am emphatically not) and Mormon churches or businesses because of support for prop. 8 either, but I suppose in California even explicit mention may not earn Mormons equal protection under the law.

Anyone that wants to use violence as a political tool needs shooting in my book, be they government or individual. What was that thing about a polite society again?

Stand-your-ground would help a great deal, but one step at a time. In other states the working sequence seems to be to build a constituency with shall-issue, which then provides the political strength to reinforce the legal protection for justifiable use of force.

7x57

Piper
03-27-2009, 12:03 PM
The best way to help is call all of the politicians in opposition to this. The next step is to recall those that stand in opposition to this.

nicki
03-27-2009, 12:39 PM
The Mormon's and other conservative groups have been discriminated against and they have the right to self protection just as much as anyone else.

I apologize if I didn't include them, that is what I want the rest of you guys to post, others who we should consider.

Right now though, unless you are part of the "protected classes", you don't count. That is not the way I feel, that is the way the MSM behaves.

I wish it could be just the facts, but what it is going to come down to is emotion.

The big issue is we have to reach moderates and liberals, if we can't reach them, AB357 is dead.

Nicki

DDT
03-27-2009, 1:00 PM
I have a child in a wheelchair and have virtually ZERO ability to retreat in a threat on foot. If you think that my testimony would be helpful please feel free to PM me.

7x57
03-27-2009, 2:31 PM
The Mormon's and other conservative groups have been discriminated against and they have the right to self protection just as much as anyone else.

I apologize if I didn't include them, that is what I want the rest of you guys to post, others who we should consider.

Right now though, unless you are part of the "protected classes", you don't count. That is not the way I feel, that is the way the MSM behaves.


Hmm. This is an awfully fun line of reasoning. It's probably a long shot, but one might be able to make some mileage by putting both on the same stage, so to speak. It is probably suicide to associate any conservative religious group with anything in California, it will probably go down in flames just for that. But if it could be made to work, it would be to put, say, Mormons (they weren't special in this regard until the MSM made them special) and the Pink Pistols on the same stage while Prop 8 is still in the public consciousness.

I actually don't think anything would be enough to sway the opinion leaders on the other side, but it certainly brings a smile to my face to imagine a pro-self defense commercial featuring some people whom the MSM has portrayed as being at each other's throats.

"I never felt so afraid as when I tried to take my kids to the pro-prop 8 rally and the counter-demonstrators showed up."

"I left a club with my boyfriend when a bunch of men followed us out, calling us names. It was dark and the streets were empty."

"How do you explain to a little girl what those names they shouted mean?"

"If our car hadn't been parked around the corner, I don't know what would have happened."

All while cutting between scenes of demonstrators of the type I drove past outside Sarah Palin's talk and a really ominous dark street, of course. You just can't lay stuff on too thick for TV.

Fun dialog to write, at least for my sense of over-the-top purple prose. I suppose the McCoys and the Martins would cooperate to fire at revenuers, now wouldn't they? :D

7x57

7x57
03-27-2009, 2:36 PM
I have a child in a wheelchair and have virtually ZERO ability to retreat in a threat on foot. If you think that my testimony would be helpful please feel free to PM me.

That kind of situation is scary. My wife was pushing our (then) baby in a stroller past a yard on the other side of the street with a loudly barking mastiff that probably weighed 120 lb, when it suddenly went off around the fence and through the open gate we hadn't seen. I yelled at her to keep going and I stayed behind. The dog finally turned aside at my yelling at him, but if he'd have decided otherwise I'd have been lunch. Some idiot woman on a porch was yelling to get away from the dog--like I really had a choice right then.

If I'd had a gun I'd have had to draw it if I wanted even a chance to use it in time, and then I'd have probably gotten in all sorts of trouble.

With a human predator it must be about a hundred times scarier. If you've had it happen, how do you deal with it?

7x57

DDT
03-27-2009, 4:19 PM
With a human predator it must be about a hundred times scarier. If you've had it happen, how do you deal with it?


Thankfully no, I've never had it happen. I guess I'd just deal with it by calling 911 and hope the guy was still busy killing me off by the time the police got there to save my son.

unusedusername
03-27-2009, 4:55 PM
So there is another thread about people wanting to attend the hearing (myself included):
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=167094

Is there some way that this can be worked into whatever plans are being made?

I can make the drive from SF to Sac, but only if it will actually help.

nicki
03-28-2009, 2:25 AM
Right now he is looking to put things together for the Apr 14, hearing and he will need witnesses. He is also open to help because he is a one man show.

I told him I would call him back Monday and see what interest there really is, so how about it guys.

I went through 2 of these type hearings a few years back, I was a speaker, I was not involved in the planning other than to show up, in hindsight, our side could have done way better.

In all honesty, it was a longshot anyway and it was a learning experience.

I am going to tell everyone of you right now that you are free to throw things in because I can't think of everything.

We are a diverse board and my hope is that even if we don't get shall issue, we will get noticed and we will put our opponents on record of voting against equal rights to alot of groups in the process.

I don't know how much time we will get for speaking, it won't be much, maybe 1 to 2 minutes per speaker.

Key to make this work is to have key speakers and they need to each make one or two points and that's it. Each speaker brings up different issues.

Key issues I want brought up target specific groups and will show that the CCW issue is not just a small subset of gun rights, rather it is the tip of the iceberg and equal rights violations, political corruption and potential mass civil rights lawsuits.

Here is my wish list which you guys can add to.

LBGT, Pink Pistols. The state has passed hate crimes legislation already, but Amenesty International and the Human rights campaign document that Police agencies across the US are still guilty on ongoing human rights abuses of the LBGT community.:eek:

So the LBGT community is supposed to depend on Police agencies for protection, the very same agencies whom respected human rights organizations say routinely bash them.

AI and HRC are considered reputable human rights groups by most liberals in our legislature. :rolleyes:

Domestic Violence Victims: We need to have a articulate female who can voice not only a personal experience, but also tie about how many legitimate restraining orders for violence are issued in Califonia.

The issue of stalking can be raised on this one as well as the Quasi legal affirmative defense against carrying a gun without a license.

What we would show is that the current system in most parts of the state is broken when it comes to protecting victims of domestic violence.

Handicapped Individual: I would want someone who is physically impaired and what we would do is tie the CCW permit to the ADA.

Hispanic, from LA.. Deal with the whole gang infestation issue. Have a possible speaker thanks to my daughter, but want a backup on this one.

Pat McCollough- Anti Drug Citizen activist who shot a kid who was trying to kill him in Oakland. Pat ran for city council, if anyone has contact, he would be a awesome speaker to have. I don't know his personal situation, but if he would agree to go, we need to offset all his expenses.

Bail Bondsman- Friend of mine is a bailbondsman in Santa Clara county and can't get a CCW permit. He probably can't go, but we probably could find someone in Sac county who would show.

This is critical in that bail bondsmen from the last figures I heard were responsible for tracking down and arresting 90 percent of bail jumpers.

Anyone who served on a jury trial where they sent someone really bad and gang affiliated to prison. Emphasis is that concern for public safety is corrupting the jury system.

Witnesses to crime. Oaklander, this is you. Seriously, few want to get involved because of fear of potential reprisals.G

Guy Smith- He is in Alameda county, he has media contacts, he is a A+++ speaker, his point would be to tie in the public benefit facts of CCW and to destroy the so called myths.

The Howard Jarvis group- It is obvious that there will be lawsuits and taxpayers are going to have to pay. If we could get a rep to say they have looked at our positions and that from a taxpayer point of view, it would be irresponsible to vote against AB357. I'm working on this, if any of you have access, don't be shy.

Government Union Reps. Before you guys write the unions off, it doesn't hurt to talk with them. If the cities and counties are spending money on lawsuits, it means they can't spend money elsewhere.

That means potential cuts in what they consider vital public services.

The FBI: The FBI has stung many California officials on corruption charges, currently we have two former sheriffs in hot water, Lou Blanas and Mike Corona.

Mike Corona was good for us and I hope that the allegations against him have no merit. Lou Blanas on the other hand is dirty.

It is unlikely the FBI would send someone to the hearing, but then again, it doesn't hurt. The least we can do is share with them how the CCW system really works then let them go from there. If anyone here has a connection, don't be shy.

Last person I would want to be a key speaker would be our own Gene Hoffman. Gene could tell the legislature how Calguns started out as a little chimpanze, has now grown to a 800 pound gorilla and that in the near future, we will be a political and legal King Kong.

Gene would have the fun of talking to the legislature about Heller, Nordyke and how CCW abuse is something many want to pursue legal recourse to fix problems that would be fixed if this bill passes.

Gene is diplomatic, just like the Godfather, and I'm sure he can come up with offers that the legislature would be wise to take.

If Gene can't make it, perhaps Ben Cannon could. Either one of them would be excellent. Both of them would be outstanding.

I am sure that the NRA, CRPA and the GOC will be there and it is my hope we could work with them to coordinate things.

The other side will have speakers and they will say the usual garbage. It is always the same BS. My goal is that we destroy their testimony before they even get a chance to open their mouths.

What I would hope is that after the key speakers talk, that we would have public comment and that alot of you would be there to make comments.

The trick for our side would be to attack, attack, attack.

For someone to vote against AB357 would mean they would be knowlingly voting against equal rights for alot of different groups.

Nicki