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View Full Version : Heated argument with eBay over California Law....


ChuckBooty
03-26-2009, 6:40 PM
The story is that I'm selling an SKS stock on eBay. The item was removed for a perceived violation of eBay's Terms of Service regarding firearms and accessories. The Customer Service rep that I spoke with was ADAMANT that this was in violation because an SKS paratrooper was considered an Assault Weapon in the state of California. He tried to quote the law to me......little did he know that I am a CalGunner...lol! Here's the long but enjoyable chat session. Prepare to be FRUSTRATED!!


EDIT 4: Sorry about the delay. There was some kind of deal in the formatting that kept screwing me up when I pasted it here. But see parts 1-5 below!

Vacaville
03-26-2009, 6:42 PM
I'm ready to be frustrated. Link?

JayRuff
03-26-2009, 6:52 PM
hurry

bohoki
03-26-2009, 6:58 PM
yea wait till they find out sks clips are for sale

ahhhh

http://cgi.ebay.com/20-SKS-10rd-Stripper-Clip-BRAND-NEW-UNISSUED-Clips_W0QQitemZ290304637948QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item290304637948

ChuckBooty
03-26-2009, 7:18 PM
Part 1
4/06:30 PM SYSTEM
INITIAL QUESTION/COMMENT: LISTING YOUR ITEM
4/06:35 PM SYSTEM
THANK YOU FOR CONTACTING EBAY LIVE HELP!
4/06:35 PM SYSTEM
BRONWYNN HAS JOINED THIS SESSION!
4/06:35 PM SYSTEM
CONNECTED WITH BRONWYNN
4/06:50 PM BRONWYNN
HELLO, THANK YOU FOR WAITING AND WELCOME TO EBAY LIVE HELP! MY NAME IS
BRONWYNN. IF YOU’RE A REGISTERED MEMBER, MAY I PLEASE START BY HAVING YOU
CONFIRM YOUR USER ID AND FIRST NAME?
4/07:15 PM CHUCKBOOTY
MY USER ID IS CHUCKBOOTY
4/07:20 PM CHUCKBOOTY
MY FIRST NAME IS ERIC
4/07:30 PM BRONWYNN
THANKS, ERIC. HOW CAN I HELP YOU?
4/08:13 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I HAVE HAD AN ITEM REMOVED FOR A VIOLATION OF EBAY'S TOS AND I THINK IT WAS A
MISTAKE (OR REMOVED UNFAIRLY)
4/08:28 PM CHUCKBOOTY
THE LAST REP THAT I SPOKE WITH TRANSFERRED ME TO YO
4/08:29 PM CHUCKBOOTY
U
4/09:06 PM BRONWYNN
I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN THAT THE LISTING WAS REMOVED. IT WILL TAKE JUST A
MOMENT TO REVIEW YOUR ACCOUNT. I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE.
4/09:22 PM CHUCKBOOTY
THANK YOU! IT WAS ITEM NUMBER 260383263161
4/10:02 PM CHUCKBOOTY
HERE WAS THE EMAIL THAT I GOT FROM THE EBAY REP REGARDING THE REASON FOR
REMOVAL: UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAD TO REMOVE YOUR LISTING BECAUSE THE FOLLOWING
INFORMATION VIOLATES OUR POLICY:
EBAY DOES NOT PERMIT THE SALE OF ANY ASSAULT WEAPON‐RELATED PARTS OR
ACCESSORIES. IN ORDER TO RELIST YOUR ITEM, YOU CANNOT MENTION SKS IN YOUR LISTING
IN ORDER TO AVOID FURTHER POLICY VIOLATIONS.
4/11:00 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE ON THE REPRESENTATIVES PART...IF YOU DO A SEARCH FOR "SKS
STOCK" ON EBAY IT WILL COME BACK WITH ALMOST ONE HUNDRED ITEMS
4/11:38 PM BRONWYNN
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. I HAVE REVIEWED THE LISTING AND SEE THAT IT WAS
REMOVED CORRECTLY. THE SKS IS CONSIDERED AN ASSAULT WEAPON IF CERTAIN
REQUIREMENTS ARE MET, AND IT IS CONSIDERED A CATEGORY 3 ASSAULT WEAPON.
4/11:39 PM CHUCKBOOTY
IN FACT IF YOU CHECK OUT MY RECENT PURCHASES...YOU'LL SEE THAT I JUST BOUGHT THE
EXACT SAME STOCK BUT IN BLACK

freonr22
03-26-2009, 7:22 PM
You need to donate like that guy does
A VERY SPECIAL THANK YOU TO ALL OF MY CUSTOMERS FOR YOUR SUPPORT OF THE
WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT!!!
AS EBAYS' MINIMUM DONATION AMOUNT IS $5 PER AUCTION, I CAN'T OFFER IT ON ALL
OF MY LISTINGS. HOWEVER, EVEN IF YOUR PURCHASE DOESN'T INCLUDE
A DIRECT DONATION, IT ALLOWS ME TO DONATE MORE ON MY OTHER AUCTIONS.
THANKS TO YOU, OVER $2,000 HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THIS VERY
WORTHY CAUSE IN THE PAST 6 MONTHS!!! A VERY HUMBLE & HEARTFELT THANK YOU
TO ALL OF MY GREAT CUSTOMERS!!!

ChuckBooty
03-26-2009, 7:26 PM
Part 2
4/12:01 PM BRONWYNN
WHEN CERTAIN PARTS ARE COMBINED WITH OR ADDED ON TO A PARTICULAR FIREARM
APPLICATION, THEY CAN BECOME REDEFINED AS A CATEGORY 3 ASSAULT WEAPON UNDER
CALIFORNIA LAW. THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NOT PERMITTED UNDER THIS POLICY:
4/12:14 PM BRONWYNN
1. PARTS FOR CENTER‐FIRE WEAPONS WHICH ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND
INCLUDE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
4/12:35 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I UNDERSTAND THAT...THIS RIFLE DOES NOT ACCEPT DETACHABLE MAGAZINES
4/12:44 PM BRONWYNN
A) PISTOL GRIPS THAT PROTRUDE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE WEAPON. B) A THUMBHOLE
STOCK, FOLDING STOCK OR TELESCOPING STOCK. C) A GRENADE OR FLARE LAUNCHER. D) A
FLASH SUPPRESSOR
4/12:52 PM CHUCKBOOTY
IT HAS A FIXED TEN ROUND MAGAZINE MAKING IT LEGAL IN CA (I'M IN CA AND BOUGHT IT
LEGALLY HERE)
4/13:53 PM CHUCKBOOTY
AND BESIDES THAT...IT'S JUST A STOCK. THERE IS NO RECIEVER INVOLVED IN THE SALE
4/14/11 PM CHUCKBOOTY
SO THAT BEING THE CASE, THIS STOCK WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY MAGAZINE...FIXED OR
OTHERWISE
4/14/28 PM BRONWYNN
I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN. THE LISTING WAS REMOVED BECAUSE PARTS FOR A SEMIAUTOMATIC
SHOTGUN WHICH HAS BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING: A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING
STOCK AND A PISTOL GRIP WHICH PROTRUDES FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE WEAPON OR A
THUMBHOLE STOCK OR A VERTICAL GRIP ARE NOT ALLOWED.
4/15:18 PM BRONWYNN
WHILE I UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT THE RECEIVER, THERE ARE FURTHER RESTRICTIONS TO OUR
FIREARMS POLICY.
4/15:44 PM BRONWYNN
IN REGARD TO SIMILAR LISTINGS YOU MAY SEE ON THE SITE, I KNOW IT CAN BE FRUSTRATING
TO SEE ITEMS SIMILAR TO YOURS WHEN WE'VE REMOVED YOUR LISTING, BUT IT'S NOT A
QUESTION OF BEING TARGETED.
4/15:49 PM BRONWYNN
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T CATCH ALL LISTINGS THAT ARE IN VIOLATION OF EBAY POLICY
RIGHT AWAY. AS A RESULT, YOU MAY SEE LISTINGS FOR PROHIBITED ITEMS FOR A TIME.
HOWEVER, WE REMOVE ALL SUCH LISTINGS AS SOON AS WE BECOME AWARE OF THEM.
4/16:21 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I HAVE READ THE FIREARM POLICY AND I AM WELL VERSED IN CALIFORNIA FIREARMS LAWS.
THE RIFLE THAT THIS SKS BELONGS TO DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT
DETACHABLE MAGAZINES. DO A QUICK SEARCH ON EBAY AND YOU'LL COME UP WITH ALMOST
ONE HUNDRED OF THESE EXACT SAME STOCKS
4/16:42 PM CHUCKBOOTY
AND I KNOW THAT YOU CAN NOT CATCH EVERYTHING
4/17:29 PM CHUCKBOOTY
BUT WHAT I'M TELLING YOU IS THAT THIS RIFLE IS A LEGAL RIFLE IN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA SINCE IT DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT DETACHABLE MAGAZINES.
SINCE IT HAS A FIXED TEN ROUND MAGAZINE, THE FORWARD PISTOL GRIP IS NOT CONSIDERED
AN "EVIL FEATURE"
4/18:09 PM BRONWYNN
YOUR LISTING INDICATED THAT IT HAS A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK AND PROTRUDING
PISTOL GRIP, WHICH DOES QUALIFY AS A CATEGORY 3 ASSAULT WEAPON UNDER OUR
CURRENT POLICY.
4/18:27 PM BRONWYNN
I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN, UNFORTUNATELY, THE LISTING WAS REMOVED
CORRECTLY.
4/18:43 PM CHUCKBOOTY
IT DOES NOT QUALIFY AS A CATEGORY 3 ASSAULT WEAPON BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE THE
ABILITY TO ACCEPT DETACHABLE MAGAZINES
4/20:05 PM BRONWYNN
ACCORDING TO OUR POLICY, AN ITEM IS CONSIDERED A CATEGORY 3 ASSAULT WEAPON IN THE
FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCE:
4/20:06 PM BRONWYNN
PARTS FOR A SEMI‐AUTOMATIC SHOTGUN WHICH HAS BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING:
4/20:15 PM BRONWYNN
A) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK
4/20:20 PM BRONWYNN
B) A PISTOL GRIP WHICH PROTRUDES FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE WEAPON OR A THUMBHOLE
STOCK OR A VERTICAL GRIP
4/20:37 PM CHUCKBOOTY
YOU DIDN'T FINISH

ChuckBooty
03-26-2009, 7:28 PM
Part 3
4/20:41 PM CHUCKBOOTY
AND
4/20:44 PM BRONWYNN
ACCORDING TO THIS INFORMATION, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE
TO QUALIFY UNDER THESE RULES.
4/20:51 PM CHUCKBOOTY
HAS THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT DETACHABLE MAGAZINES
4/21:35 PM CHUCKBOOTY
12276.1 (A) NOTWITHSTANDING SECTION 12276, "ASSAULT WEAPON" SHALL ALSO MEAN
ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A SEMIAUTOMATIC, CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT A
DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND ANY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING:
4/21:35 PM BRONWYNN
I WILL COPY OUR ENTIRE POLICY FOR YOUR REVIEW. IT WILL TAKE A FEW MOMENTS TO TYPE
IT ALL OUT, BUT IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE, A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE IS NOT REQUIRED.
4/21:51 PM CHUCKBOOTY
HTTP://WWW.AG.CA.GOV/FIREARMS/REGS/GENCHAR2.PHP
4/21:55 PM BRONWYNN
THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NOT PERMITTED UNDER THIS POLICY:
4/21:59 PM CHUCKBOOTY
HOLD ON
4/22:00 PM BRONWYNN
1. PARTS FOR CENTER‐FIRE WEAPONS WHICH ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND
INCLUDE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
4/22:08 PM CHUCKBOOTY
YOU ARE INCORRECTLY QUOTING CALIFORNIA LAW HERE
4/22:11 PM BRONWYNN
A) PISTOL GRIPS THAT PROTRUDE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE WEAPON
4/22:17 PM CHUCKBOOTY
12276.1 (A) NOTWITHSTANDING SECTION 12276, "ASSAULT WEAPON" SHALL ALSO MEAN
ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A SEMIAUTOMATIC, CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT A
DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND ANY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING:
4/22:21 PM BRONWYNN
I AM QUOTING OUR POLICY.
4/22:34 PM CHUCKBOOTY
12276.1 (A) NOTWITHSTANDING SECTION 12276, "ASSAULT WEAPON" SHALL ALSO MEAN
ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A SEMIAUTOMATIC, CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT A
DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND ANY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF THE WEAPON.
2. A THUMBHOLE STOCK.
3. A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK.
4. A GRENADE LAUNCHER OR FLARE LAUNCHER.
5. A FLASH SUPPRESSOR.
6. A FORWARD PISTOL GRIP.
4/22:46 PM BRONWYNN
WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT MAY BE LEGAL TO SELL, PURCHASE, OR OWN MANY ITEMS THAT
ARE NOT ALLOWED ON EBAY. TO PROTECT THE SAFETY OF OUR COMMUNITY, EBAY POLICY IS
SOMETIMES MORE STRICT THAN OTHER LEGAL OR REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS. FOR THIS
REASON, ALL LISTINGS AND ITEMS SHOULD FOLLOW BOTH EBAY POLICY AND THE LAW.
4/22:56 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I UNDERSTAND
4/22:57 PM CHUCKBOOTY
OK
4/23:01 PM CHUCKBOOTY
QUOTE YOUR POLICY TO ME PLEASE
4/23:06 PM CHUCKBOOTY
AND THANK YOU FOR TAKING YOUR TIME WITH ME HERE
4/24/21 PM CHUCKBOOTY
ASSAULT WEAPON‐RELATED PARTS OR ACCESSORIES. THIS PROHIBITION APPLIES TO ALL
PARTS AND ACCESSORIES RELATED TO ANY FIREARM DEFINED AS AN "ASSAULT WEAPON" BY
FEDERAL OR CALIFORNIA LAW. FOR MORE DETAILS ON ASSAULT WEAPONS, PLEASE VISIT
HTTP://AG.CA.GOV/FIREARMS/AWLIST.HTM AND
HTTP://AG.CA.GOV/FIREARMS/AWGUIDE/AWGUIDE.PHP.
4/24/27 PM BRONWYNN
IT'S MY PLEASURE, WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOUR LISTINGS COMPLY AND YOU ARE ABLE
TO SUCCESSFULLY LIST THEM. THERE ARE 5 PARTS TO THE CATEGORY 3 ASSAULT WEAPON
POLICY, AND NUMBER 3 IS THE ONE THAT YOUR LISTING IS HITTING. ALLOW ME JUST A FEW
MINUTES TO POST THE ENTIRE POLICY FOR YOUR REVIEW.
4/24/52 PM CHUCKBOOTY
BUT, WE'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED HERE THAT THIS PARTICULAR SKS RIFLE IS NOT AS
ASSAULT WEAPON BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT DETACHABLE
MAGAZINES

ChuckBooty
03-26-2009, 7:28 PM
Part 4
4/25:15 PM CHUCKBOOTY
SO ANY OF THE SUBSEQUENT FEATURES, EG PISTOL GRIP OR TELESCOPING STOCK ARE
IRRELEVANT
4/25:44 PM BRONWYNN
THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NOT PERMITTED UNDER THIS POLICY:
4/25:52 PM BRONWYNN
1. PARTS FOR CENTER‐FIRE WEAPONS WHICH ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND
INCLUDE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING: A) PISTOL GRIPS THAT PROTRUDE FROM THE BOTTOM OF
THE WEAPON, B) A THUMBHOLE STOCK, FOLDING STOCK OR TELESCOPING STOCK, C) A
GRENADE OR FLARE LAUNCHER, D) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR
4/25:57 PM BRONWYNN
2. PARTS FOR SEMI‐AUTOMATIC PISTOLS WHICH ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND
INCLUDE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING: A) A THREADED BARREL, B) A SECOND HAND GRIP OR
BARREL SHROUD, C) THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE OUTSIDE OF THE
PISTOL GRIP
4/26:07 PM BRONWYNN
3. PARTS FOR A SEMI‐AUTOMATIC SHOTGUN WHICH HAS BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING: A) A
FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK, B) A PISTOL GRIP WHICH PROTRUDES FROM THE BOTTOM
OF THE WEAPON OR A THUMBHOLE STOCK OR A VERTICAL GRIP
4/26:12 PM BRONWYNN
4. PARTS FOR ANY SHOTGUN WITH A REVOLVING CYLINDER
4/26:17 PM BRONWYNN
5. PARTS FOR SEMI‐AUTOMATIC CENTER‐FIRE RIFLES WHICH ARE LESS THAN 30 INCHES IN
LENGTH
4/26:47 PM BRONWYNN
AS SHOWN IN #3, REGARDLESS OF THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, THE
ITEM IS REMOVED UNDER OUR POLICY.
4/26:55 PM CHUCKBOOTY
SO I'M NOT HITTING NUMBER THREE BECAUSE THE FIRST LINE IN THAT DEFINITION STATES
THAT ANY CENTERFIRE, SEMI AUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT
DETACHABLE MAGAZINES AND ANY OF THE FOLLOWING...IS CONSIDERED A CAT 3 AW
4/26:59 PM CHUCKBOOTY
AND IS THE KEY WORD
4/27:21 PM CHUCKBOOTY
SINCE THE SKS DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT DETACHABLE MAGAZINES THE
OTHER FEATURES ARE IRRELEVANT
4/27:30 PM CHUCKBOOTY
YOU ARE WRONG
4/27:36 PM BRONWYNN
EACH SEPARATE NUMBER HAS ITS OWN QUALIFICATIONS.
4/27:49 PM CHUCKBOOTY
#3 IS ONLY RELEVANT IF THE RIFLE HAS THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT DETACHABLE MAGAZINES
4/28:05 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I SUSPECT THAT THIS IS WHY YOU MENTIONED THE DETACHABLE MAGS AT THE BEGINNING OF
OUR CONVERSATION
4/28:28 PM BRONWYNN
NUMBER 3 STATES, IF YOUR ITEM IS FOR A SEMI‐AUTOMATIC SHOTGUN AND HAS BOTH A
FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK AND PISTOL GRIP WHICH PROTRUDES, IT IS NOT PERMITTED.
4/28:32 PM CHUCKBOOTY
AND I'M QUOTING YOU DIRECTLY FROM THE STATE AG'S WEBSITE VIS‐A‐VIS EBAY'S FIREARM
POLICY PAGE
4/28:43 PM CHUCKBOOTY
MY STOCK DOES NOT GO ON A SHOTGUN
4/29:10 PM CHUCKBOOTY
IT GOES ON A FIXED‐MAGAINZE (TEN ROUND FIXED MAGAZINE) SEMI‐AUTOMITIC RIFLE
4/29:38 PM BRONWYNN
NO, I WAS MENTIONING THE DETACHABLE MAGAZINE WHEN I BEGAN TO SUPPLY THE ENTIRE
POLICY, AND WAS NOT ABLE TO FINISH THE POLICY EXPLANATION.
4/29:52 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I UNDERSTAND
4/29:56 PM CHUCKBOOTY
BUT NONE THE LESS
4/29:59 PM CHUCKBOOTY
THIS IS NOT A SHOTGUN

jnojr
03-26-2009, 7:28 PM
Why do people who care about the Second Amendment continue to use and support eBay???

Is the few dollars you get really worth it?

ChuckBooty
03-26-2009, 7:29 PM
And the GRAND FINALE...Part 5
4/30:05 PM CHUCKBOOTY
IT'S A FIXED MAGAZINE RIFLE
4/30:38 PM CHUCKBOOTY
IT IS NOT AN ASSAULT WEAPON BY CALIFORNIA OR EBAY'S STANDARDS (SINCE EBAY'S
TOS DIRECTLY QUOTES AND REPLICATES CALIFORNIA LAW)
4/31:49 PM BRONWYNN
I AM HAVING ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL REVIEW THIS LISTING. IT WILL TAKE ANOTHER MOMENT.
4/32:14 PM CHUCKBOOTY
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME...I KNOW SOMETIMES TRYING TO DECODE CALIFORNIA
LAW IS LIKE TRYING TO DECODE THE DA VINCI CODE
4/34/45 PM BRONWYNN
I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN. I AM STILL HAVING THAT LISTING REMOVED, SO IT WILL BE
ANOTHER MINUTE OR TWO.
4/34/45 PM BRONWYNN
I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE.
4/35:07 PM CHUCKBOOTY
HAVING IT REMOVED OR REVIEWED?
4/35:30 PM BRONWYNN
I AM SORRY, I AM HAVING IT REVIEWED.
4/35:38 PM CHUCKBOOTY
LOL...GOTCHA
4/39:05 PM BRONWYNN
WE ARE STILL REVIEWING THE LISTING, IT WILL HOPEFULLY ONLY BE ANOTHER MINUTE.
4/39:13 PM CHUCKBOOTY
OK
4/42:06 PM BRONWYNN
OKAY, I AM GOING TO REINSTATE YOUR LISTING, AS IT WAS REMOVED INCORRECTLY. IT WILL
TAKE JUST A MOMENT TO GET THAT REINSTATED FOR YOU, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR
PATIENCE.
4/42:22 PM CHUCKBOOTY
THANK YOU AGAIN!
4/44/24 PM BRONWYNN
ONCE THE LISTING IS REINSTATED, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU STATE VERY, VERY
CLEARLY THAT THERE IS NO DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, THAT IT IS A FIXED MAGAZINE ONLY,
WHICH DOES NOT QUALIFY AS AN ASSAULT WEAPON ACCESSORY. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL
PREVENT ANY CONFUSION IN THE FUTURE.
4/44/40 PM CHUCKBOOTY
I'LL MAKE SURE I DO THAT
4/45:09 PM BRONWYNN
OK, YOU ARE ALL SET. THE LISTING WAS REINSTATED, AND YOU SHOULD RECEIVE A SEPARATE
EMAIL GIVING YOU INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO RELIST YOUR ITEM.
4/45:42 PM BRONWYNN
I HAVE ALSO MADE A NOTE ON YOUR ACCOUNT AND REMOVED THE VIOLATION, SO IT WILL NO
LONGER REFLECT ON YOUR ACCOUNT. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE ERROR.

freonr22
03-26-2009, 7:34 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=146070

in 2 weeks!

CSACANNONEER
03-26-2009, 7:39 PM
It doesn't make a difference if it is legal or not. Ebay is a private company and can run there bussiness as they see fit until the government decides to step in. While I don't agree with their policy, I support their right to run their bussiness the way they want to.

ChuckBooty
03-26-2009, 7:45 PM
It doesn't make a difference if it is legal or not. Ebay is a private company and can run there bussiness as they see fit until the government decides to step in. While I don't agree with their policy, I support their right to run their bussiness the way they want to.

You're right. But I didn't violate their TOS so my auction should not have been taken down.

Untamed1972
03-26-2009, 8:03 PM
Here's an idea.....ebay is a private company and they have the right to set whatever policy they want regardless of how the Feds or CA define an assualt weapon.

I know the GOV wants the authority to take over any business they want....but they dont have it yet.

A FREE COUNTRY meants private people and business can set their own policies and if you dont like it you can take your business somewhere else. You have no protected right to advertise on ebay.

KylaGWolf
03-26-2009, 8:13 PM
Yet another reason to stop using Ebay. About the only thing I buy there anymore are my textbooks. Even then I try to go to other sites first.

The Nomadd
03-26-2009, 8:15 PM
Chuck, congrats on sticking to your guns, (pun intended) and getting them to back down & re-instate your auction.

crazy
05-20-2009, 4:43 PM
I bet you were talking with India. I called to complain about something on fleabay. I got some retarded woman that read from a script. I told her not to read from a script. She cut me off and told me to wait until she was finished. I told her I was finished with her. I asked for a supervisor. She put me on hold for 10 minutes, then came back and told me no supervisor was available. I asked what country the call center was located. Her answer, she could not tell me for security reasons. My exact words to her, "You are full of crap!" She told me not to use bad language. I hung up not getting anywhere. What's the punchline. Put your head in a vise. You will feel much better. They are loosing $$$ because of many unhappy people.

eflatminor
05-20-2009, 5:46 PM
I thought ebay forbid the selling of any firearm related items some time ago, which is a decision, however ill concieved, any private company can make. This would therefore have nothing to do with CA law?

97F1504RAD
05-20-2009, 6:02 PM
So why can this store then exist?

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/ULTIMATEARMS-SPORTING-SUPERSTORE

stillnotbob
05-20-2009, 6:12 PM
Not saying I like everything eBay does, but I scored two NEW in box EoTech 512s for $225 and $230 last year (October?).

evan69
05-20-2009, 6:12 PM
Having that conversation in text, for me, would have been so frustrating I would have thrown my laptop across the room by part 4. Oh man.

qaz987
05-20-2009, 6:32 PM
Man you've got patience. I would have gone to GB after the first conversation. :thumbsup:

andrewj
05-20-2009, 6:34 PM
After all that, you should take the listing down now and put it on gunbroker

fullrearview
05-20-2009, 6:35 PM
Funny how a girl can auction her virginity on there, but not a stock for an sks...

Theseus
05-20-2009, 6:37 PM
The whole time I was reading this I constantly saw him referring to the #3 SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUN....Sorry to kind of laugh at you, but it took you quite a long time to pick up on that part as well.

But good work on making them fix it.

I thought GeoVario was working on something that would work like EBay? Or was that PayPal?

Funny how a girl can auction her virginity on there, but not a stock for an sks...

+1 Million!!!

eflatminor
05-20-2009, 7:27 PM
So why can this store then exist?

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/ULTIMATEARMS-SPORTING-SUPERSTORE

I remember some time ago writing a letter to eBay, shaming them for the decision to ban firearm related sales. Was it right after Virginia Tech maybe? I might even have an old email because I got a reply.

I even remember bumper stickers calling for a Boycott of eBay because of it. Does anyone recall eBay once having this stance?

Bad Voodoo
05-20-2009, 7:50 PM
Here's an idea.....ebay is a private company...

FAIL!

eBay is a very PUBLIC company. They sell stock and everything. ;)

rolo
05-20-2009, 8:51 PM
Ebay, in all its self-righteous anti-gun fury, attempts to appear even handed by copying CA law verbatim as company policy with regards to guns. When they misinterpret said law/policy and incorrectly interfere with lawful commerce they are violating the very essence of what they claim to be, an impartial location for business persons to reach customers.

They violated their own policy. Do they have the right to change said policy? Yes. Do they have the right to change said policy without requiring consent? Arguable. Do they have the right to interfere in lawful commerce? Not if they want to keep doing business as usual. They have avoided some really big lawsuits by not being too partial. If they hang up the pretext of impartiality, they stand to lose big and they know this.

You have to be smarter than a rock to pick up a rock. Kudos to the OP for sticking it out.

Turbinator
05-20-2009, 9:33 PM
Yup, kudos to the OP for getting the decision reversed. Great job!

Turby

Darklyte27
05-20-2009, 9:43 PM
haha
crazy.. hopefully the ebay rep learned something.

eflatminor
05-20-2009, 9:54 PM
FAIL!

eBay is a very PUBLIC company. They sell stock and everything. ;)


We'll, just because their stock is publically traded, that doesn't mean they're not a private company. They're still owned by stockholders, not the government. That's what I meant by private.

artherd
05-20-2009, 10:37 PM
The bad news - is that eBay is anti-gun.

The good news - is that I have a solution.


Watch this space.

grahlaika
05-20-2009, 11:21 PM
As others, said, eBay is a private company and as long as they don't break EEOC and other existing regulations they can deny business to whomever they want. Why would you want to force a business to take on a liability they don't want? The whole 'removable magazine' issue hasn't been conclusively resolved until it sees the light of a courtroom, so a business has every right to take the cautious approach and stick to the conservative interpretation. Doesn't necessarily mean they don't support 2A, just that they're not willing to take the risk of getting shut down or being sued because someone got shot with a weapon someone bought off eBay. Frankly I probably wouldn't either if I owned eBay.

It's also silly to get into a quasi-legal argument about gun regulations with some support dude that's likely sitting in a hot office in India somewhere, quoting a specific set of policy from a sheet he's been given. If you really want to make a difference, write a letter to their leadership or to their board of directors. That, or start a campaign to persuade people to stop using eBay because of their 2A inequities. Might change their minds if they get a business impact. But then might not. In any event, arguing with a support guy is plain silly. But I'm glad you made your case successfully.

It's their right to make up their own standards on what they do and don't allow to be sold using their service. It's also your right to use a different service to sell or buy a firearm. There's a reason sites like GunBroker exist. Absolutely NO reason to use anything else for your internet firearm transactions.

KCM222
05-20-2009, 11:30 PM
The bad news - is that eBay is anti-gun.

The good news - is that I have a solution.


Watch this space.

CalgunsBay!

Let's get that % sent to the CGF instead of Ebay. :thumbsup:

KWA-S
05-21-2009, 12:56 AM
The bad news - is that eBay is anti-gun.

The good news - is that I have a solution.


Watch this space.

Buy a majority stock in eBay and make it sell guns too? (There are a bunch of other things you can fix with it, too)

Cardinal Sin
05-21-2009, 3:19 AM
We'll, just because their stock is publically traded, that doesn't mean they're not a private company. They're still owned by stockholders, not the government. That's what I meant by private.

If it is publicy traded then it is an IPO making it public. That being said it does answer to its stockholders, (those without prefered stock of course), and will do what is in the intrests of making them happy. As long as they dont violate any laws then they can make/change their policies as they see fit. If it were a government owned buisness then the buisness would ultimately answer to the people, (although the politicians would fight tooth and nail to keep you from exercising that option).

I use ebay for some things but firearms realted stuff is found elsewhere. Just isnt worth the hassle of ignorant eBay staff.

And WTF is it with Necro=Posts?!

383green
05-21-2009, 9:14 AM
Watch this space.

I've been watching it for a very long two weeks... ;)

Anyway, to the OP: I admire your tenacity. That script reads like somebody having an argument with a cat.

AaronHorrocks
05-21-2009, 1:47 PM
Stop using ebay, and stop using paypal. They do not support your RIGHT to defend yourself.

You can sell your parts on calguns.net or gunbroker.com

DDT
05-21-2009, 2:12 PM
if/when we become a protected class this will become interesting, until then it is a business making a (very bad) business decision. Vote with your wallet.

steve40
05-21-2009, 4:25 PM
reading that whole conversation was making me get frustrated, lol

Nessal
05-21-2009, 6:06 PM
Here's an idea.....ebay is a private company and they have the right to set whatever policy they want regardless of how the Feds or CA define an assualt weapon.

I know the GOV wants the authority to take over any business they want....but they dont have it yet.

A FREE COUNTRY meants private people and business can set their own policies and if you dont like it you can take your business somewhere else. You have no protected right to advertise on ebay.



Yes, they are a private company and can set whatever rules they want. It's not ILLEGAL for them to take his ad off. Sure he doesn't have any protected right to advertise on ebay. But he does have a CONTRACTUAL "right" between him and ebay. Ebay has a user end policy and as long as the user does not violate those rights (which he didn't) ebay agrees to offer their services to him. Ebay under their "contract" can not revoke their services to him after he has taken consideration of the terms unless he has broken a "rule" that ebay enforced.

AaronHorrocks
05-21-2009, 8:43 PM
We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

GrayWolf09
05-21-2009, 10:41 PM
Government by bureaucracy may be the cruelest form of tyranny.....
Hannah Arendt

Actually I do not think arguing with a $20/hr techie who could care less about you or the nuances of California gun law is particularly productive. I think the strongest argument you raised is that this is a stock not a gun and the State of California does not regulate stocks except for the ones on the Pacific Stock Exchange.

:fud:

Amacias805
05-21-2009, 11:32 PM
good job to the op on getting the decision reversed.

ease up on Ebay, keep in mind that they just have to be protective of there own ***** to not get shut down or fined. they have to be slightly stricter and more observant, (there reps probably aren't law experts,) give them credit for trying to help sell certain accessory's


PayPal on the other hand are a bunch of Gun Nazi's and will ban you for anything even remotely gun related... hate them (although i just used them a few hours ago) cant wait till GunPal opens up

Adding:
I'd being willing to pay an extra 1/2%-1% for a service that isn't ran by Nazi's

DDT
05-22-2009, 12:06 AM
ease up on Ebay, keep in mind that they just have to be protective of there own ***** to not get shut down or fined. they have to be slightly stricter and more observant, (there reps probably aren't law experts,) give them credit for trying to help sell certain accessory's

PayPal on the other hand are a bunch of Gun Nazi's and will ban you for anything even remotely gun related... hate them (although i just used them a few hours ago) cant wait till GunPal opens up


You might be interested to know that eBay owns PayPal.

MrSigmaDOT40
05-22-2009, 4:39 AM
I see a lot of people started typing away with posts without reading ALL the text. EBAY went against their own TOS to take it down, they were wrong, finally saw the ight and reinstated the listing, CONGRATS!

sgtlmj
05-22-2009, 6:02 AM
I once had an auction pulled for a 10-rd M1A magazine, and they wouldn't re-instate it no matter what.

Kudos for prevailing here, and it sheds light on their attitude, and their "warning" system. My auctions still take up to two days to post. I assume that since the mag incident I have a red flag of some kind that requires my auctions go undergo additional review.

jroberts1968
05-22-2009, 6:10 AM
I have my Yugo M92 Kit Listed for a week now. But I listed a CAA stock and was removed.

Jim

grahlaika
05-22-2009, 9:11 AM
I see a lot of people started typing away with posts without reading ALL the text. EBAY went against their own TOS to take it down, they were wrong, finally saw the ight and reinstated the listing, CONGRATS!

Who the heck could sit still and read through all that wall of ALL CAPS text? The OP should have summarized the discussion, including the result, just like you did here. Instead it was 'eBay removed my ad. they r teh suck!', so of course people will react to that and not bother reading through all that stuff. First rule of posting a big pile of text on the internet - don't.

383green
05-22-2009, 9:30 AM
I continue to use eBay/PayPal, despite disliking many of their policies, simply because there's no other suitable option for finding many of the non-firearm things that I collect. The prevalence of eBay has even caused other sources of stuff to dry up; in my military radio collecting group, we noticed that our annual big swap meet really diminished in size once eBay hit critical mass, as a lot of sellers just didn't bother to show up any more.

I'll be very happy when GP is ready, but unfortunately it won't allow me to stop watching eBay for things that I want and need. In the case of the collectable military radio gear that I enjoy, even if every single dealer of such stuff converged on the same non-eBay venue, the real finds would still be on eBay. When somebody's relative passes away and they want to liquidate their collection of antique goodies (that they know nothing about), they'll put them on eBay because that's what they know about. Thus, us collectors still need to watch eBay for the rare stuff coming in from outside the dedicated collector circle.

It particularly pleases me that artherd is able to accept donations for his server farm through PayPal. In your face, PayPal! :42:

steve40
05-22-2009, 1:32 PM
i keep hearing gunpal this and gunpal that and gunpal coming soon, when is gunpal coming?????? been hearing "coming soon" for quite a while now, but still havent seen it yet. :confused:

Amacias805
05-22-2009, 8:01 PM
You might be interested to know that eBay owns PayPal.

:kest: Didnt know that... but that changes alot....


what i dont get than is why PayPal will ban you for selling gun magazines, ammo, or whatever, but Ebay is slightly more understanding... but they are hit and miss sometimes

AirflowPimp
06-05-2009, 2:29 PM
Good job to the OP. And yes it took a long time for you to pick up on the shot gun thing. But great job.

RolinThundr
06-06-2009, 3:48 AM
What pisses me off about PayPal/eBay is that your eBay purchases can be charged to your PayPal CC, but they have to have another CC on file to bill your listing fees to.

I'd go with GunBroker.com or GunsAmerica.com for buying/selling.