$2 million a piece...

[infernalaanger]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510279,00.html

Maybe we could form a small militia and use this money for CGF?

Plus $5 million extra from the U.S. Government on a select few...compounded by an extra $1 million per each of the 13 lieutenants...

Adds up pretty quick. Anyone know Dog Chapman's phone number...or at least an experienced U.S. Marshall's agent that has some free time to help restore gun owner's rights?

[skateboarder74]

I am in!

[FS00008]

I'm in. Can I get some of these FA rifles and machine guns and hand grenades that are supposedly being sold along our border to use...?

[BTF/PTM]

That Mexican Marine in the picture is holding an assault weapon :eek: Is that our fault too? :TFH:

[jnojr]

We should establish a mile-wide "No Man's Land" along the US / Mexico border. Raze it flat, seed it with land mines, and fire upon any unauthorized movement.

[natedogg1777]

Hold your horses fellas! Is this pesos, or US dollars? The former may not be worthwhile...not that our dollar is worth much these days anyhow:rolleyes:

[Colt]

Is that "dead or alive," to quote 43?

[JDay]

progress should be made now with bounties like that.

Doubtful, these people will just place higher bounties on the heads of the people who oppose them.

[Full Clip]

Spring Break in Cabo, anyone?

[CCWFacts]

Unfortunately this won't do anything to stop the flow of drugs, and will probably increase the violence in Mexico.

They did a similar thing in Colombia where they threw all their resources into getting rid of the heads of a few cartels. Pablo Escobar went to the great drug lord palace in the sky. The cartels splintered, adopting less centralized power structures. New leaders stepped in. Violence may have increased due to the power struggles.

With this situation in Mexico, for every one of these guys they kill, a dozen more are ready to fight to take his place. And the cartel leaders will use their influence to put their enemies on the list, to gain intel about who is hunting them, to kill the anti-drug leadership (happens there constantly).

Ultimately with the hundreds of billions of dollars of profit available, the industry can't be stopped.

Take a look at this 1998 article where the UN international conference on drugs promises a drug-free world by 2008 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1309/is_2_35/ai_54157831).

There are naysayers who believe a global fight against illegal drugs is unwinnable. I say emphatically they are wrong. Our slogan for the Special Session is "A Drug Free World - We Can Do It!" The United Nations and the International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP) will help lead the way.

Who turned out to be emphatically wrong? "We can do it"? Really? Does anyone actually believe that?

They have that drug control conference every ten years, and in the most recent one they sort of had to admit that their drug-free world didn't quite happen as they planned it. I'm not really sure what their goal is at this point. Talking about achieving a "drug free world" sounds like a joke. Sort of like how gun banners may talk about a "gun free world". They can't even achieve either of those (drug-free or gun-free) in island countries with harsh laws on both, like Britain.

That article is great.

For the first time, we have concrete requirements based on lessons learned at the local, national and regional levels. They are factored into our vision: a unique global system to monitor illicit cultivation and prevent the "balloon effect" (this would make sure drugs eradicated from one area would not reappear in another nearby), a participatory approach involving local communities, and a balance between law enforcement, alternative development and demand reduction. Each is critical to our ultimate success.

Looks to me like the "balloon effect" is as strong as ever. They've made very modest gains in the fight against cocaine availability in the US, resulting in the balloon effect of greatly increased amphetamine production in the US. Gains in stopping cocaine production and transportation in Colombia have resulted in gains of production and transportation in Bolivia, Mexico and other countries. Gains in fighting heroin in Thailand and Colombia have resulted in gains in production in Burma and Afghanistan.

[McCrown]

We should establish a mile-wide "No Man's Land" along the US / Mexico border. Raze it flat, seed it with land mines, and fire upon any unauthorized movement.

+1.

[CSACANNONEER]

We should establish a mile-wide "No Man's Land" along the US / Mexico border. Raze it flat, seed it with land mines, and fire upon any unauthorized movement.

Great, another government land grab just because a few people think it might be a good idea. Instead of this, why don't we just let the world know that if you are in this country illegally, you have zero rights. You can and will be treated like animals if you are convicted of illegal entry PERIOD! Let US property owners keep their property and give them the power and support they need to defend it. Don't take it away from them!

[Vectrexer]

More wasted funds. Legalize all drugs instead. Then tax their production and usage.


Money save on bounties.
Money saved on warlord hunts.
Mexico regains some control and peace.
More small business in America.
President Obama can spread some more legal goverment cheese around to repay campaign debts buy establishing more posts to regulate the new industry.
The US can then export home made drugs to Mexico and other countries.
Money for drugs stays local and helps invigorate all kinds of local business.

[infernalaanger]

Hold your horses fellas! Is this pesos, or US dollars? The former may not be worthwhile...not that our dollar is worth much these days anyhow:rolleyes:

It's $30 million pesos...$2 million USD.

[infernalaanger]

Is that "dead or alive," to quote 43?

Alive.

[fred40]

I wouldnt turn none of these guys in. First of all as soon as I do it, I'm a deadman walking, second, I will never live in peace, third I doubt they will issue me a CCW permit to protect myself and my family,fourth witness protection....nah I dont think so.

[CCWFacts]

I wouldnt turn none of these guys in. First of all as soon as I do it, I'm a deadman walking, second, I will never live in peace, third I doubt they will issue me a CCW permit to protect myself and my family,fourth witness protection....nah I dont think so.

Exactly. Even generals and top-level LEOs in Mexico, who have CCWs and bodyguards and so on, get whacked routinely. You would have to be loco to mess with these cartel leaders. Even if the person gets relocated to the US, it's very risky, for the person and for his family and extended family.

This whole plan sounds good in the headlines but that's all it is.

[colossians323]

More wasted funds. Legalize all drugs instead. Then tax their production and usage.


Money save on bounties.

And our Govt won't find some other way to spend funds?:confused:

Money saved on warlord hunts.

The won't shift the funds to gun nut hunts, or terrorist hunts?:confused:

Mexico regains some control and peace.
Right, because all of a sudden the criminals will go straight, and the politicians will not take bribes:rolleyes: We might as well make crossing the border legal to for the very reasons you state!

More small business in America.

This will hardly create more business, do you not think that the money wasn't being spent here, or do you really thing all the exotic car dealerships in mexico dot the country??

President Obama can spread some more legal goverment cheese around to repay campaign debts buy establishing more posts to regulate the new industry.

Oh, I see this quote explains it all:p

The US can then export home made drugs to Mexico and other countries.

:confused: :confused:

Money for drugs stays local and helps invigorate all kinds of local business.


It's obvious the drug wars are being won, why do you think there battling in just a few points along the border?
These are the only area's left for points of easy entry.
Why do you think florida isn't the main point of entry anymore?
Between the coast guard and the Navy, they have virtually shut down that route of entry.
The territory that they are all battling over are he last remaining bastions of easy entry, and that is why they are having this effect.

I hardly see how legalizing drugs is going stop criminals from being criminals?

[CCWFacts]

It's obvious the drug wars are being won, why do you think there battling in just a few points along the border?

Uh, there's only one definition for winning the War on Drugs. That would mean drugs are no longer available in "consuming" countries (ie, the US). And let me tell you, drugs are just as available as ever here. In fact, since the War on Drugs began about 30 years ago, we've added one major new drug: meth.

So no, we're not winning.

We're not battling just a few points along the border, either.

Drug importation channels are constantly shifting. We've gone through various modalities:


Small airplanes used to be an effective way to get it in.
Then they switched to "go-fast" boats
Then they used tunnels under the border.
Now they are using narco-subs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco_submarine).
What's next? My guess would be remote-controlled narco-subs and drones.
Note that none of these methods ever go away; they just add new options. And all of these are in addition to the old-fashioned methods of corrupting border officials, using mules, using ordinary boats and vehicles.


These are the only area's left for points of easy entry.

You really think that if we could build some magical force-field barrier between the US and Mexico that would stop all movement of people and things, it would magically end drug availability in the US? Somehow if there were some magical way to do that, no drugs would enter the US on the coasts, through Canada, or be produced domestically?

News flash: tons of drugs already come in by narco-submarine, and land on the coasts and have nothing to do with Mexico. Many tons of pot come in from Canada. Many many tons of pot and meth are produced domestically.

The big struggle in the drug world right now is between Mexican cartels and Colombian cartels. If we utterly defeat the Mexican cartels, all that we have done is helped the Colombians. Remember when we won the drug war in 1993 by killing Pablo Escobar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Escobar), the leader of the Medellín Cartel that was responsible for most of the cocaine in the US? What actually happened is that the US was (knowingly or unknowingly) collaborating with a group called Los Pepes in the hunt for Pablo. And who were Los Pepes? They were funded by Pablo's competitors, the Cali cartel! So the defeat of Pablo was really just one cartel knocking out another cartel. Is it surprising that Pablo's death didn't do anything to stop the drug flow?

Anyway, Colombians started using Mexicans to do import, and started paying Mexicans with "product", which made Mexicans develop their own distribution channels, and then started the current struggle between the Mexican and Colombian cartels, and that's all this is. If we crush them in Mexico, we're repeating the same thing we did with Pablo Escobar: knock out one group to support another. (However in this case the situation in Mexico is beyond what we can control; killing one guy isn't going to solve it.)

Why do you think florida isn't the main point of entry anymore?

Because they are constantly changing their tactics. If we can shut off the Mexican border as a point of entry, they could start using Florida, or California, or many other places for entry.

When something earns hundreds of billions of dollars per year, they will find a way.

The territory that they are all battling over are he last remaining bastions of easy entry, and that is why they are having this effect.

Did you read the article I linked to, posted in 1998, that said we can achieve a drug-free world within ten years (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1309/is_2_35/ai_54157831)? They are basing that idea on this type of logic. Not only did they not achieve a drug-free world by 2008, they seem to have made no measurable progress at all.

I hardly see how legalizing drugs is going stop criminals from being criminals?

It removes the profit from it, and there are few other activities with the insanely high markup that illegal drugs have. If drugs were legalized, criminals wouldn't be able to profit from them anymore. There's nothing else they could do that creates the cash-flow they can get from drugs. They would turn from being well-compensated criminals into being poor, unhappy people.

[nicki]

Boy, all you guys beat me to the punch on everything, great posts.

Now, if we could replace our government officials with you guys we could save our country.

Nicki

[infernalaanger]

Geez guys...it was only a joke...I'm not trying to round up a militia or anything...

Guess I should have stressed a little more sarcasm.

[CCWFacts]

We should establish a mile-wide "No Man's Land" along the US / Mexico border. Raze it flat, seed it with land mines, and fire upon any unauthorized movement.

Yeah that would work.

Not. In 2006 they found a 0.7 mile drug tunnel (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/26/mexico.tunnel/index.html). If there were a mile-wide no-mans-land, they would just need to dig a tunnel a little bit further. Experience in Vietnam, Gaza, Afghanistan and many other areas shows that it's very very difficult to stop people from tunneling. Tunnels are low-tech and dangerous but difficult to stop.

And btw, the Colombian cartels would be delighted if we could somehow shut down the Mexican border. They would have a fiesta, because then their shipments arriving on our coasts would be more cost-competitive. They would love it if we would get rid of their competitors for them, just like the Cali cartel was delighted when we killed Pablo Escobar for them. They have dozens of narco-submarines so it's no problem for them.

[stormy_clothing]

we contribute like 560 million dollars in military aid to mexico, why do we have to give more money away.

I dont understand the cartels, with so much money and power why not just share and if your going to take some action, disappear the people. Dont mess with civilians or vacationers. No need to draw attention.

[CCWFacts]

I dont understand the cartels, with so much money and power why not just share

They do share, vast amounts of money. That's why they are so hard to deal with: they have a broad support base. Pablo Escobar pioneered this concept, by building many soccer stadiums, churches, schools, all kinds of public works projects in his area. You can be sure that millions of people in Mexico benefit to some degree from the cartels.

And the people who benefit the most are their anti-drug forces. This article says it best: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7961530.stm)

What's the plan? How do you keep the new police clean? Let's suppose they get $200 a week so you put the wage up to $400. It won't stop them receiving $10,000 a month from the cartels.

if your going to take some action, disappear the people. Dont mess with civilians or vacationers. No need to draw attention.

They avoid messing with vacationers as much as possible, and they certainly do not seek out civilian casualties without reason. They are not fools; they understand that there are consequences to their actions. Killing tourists is the worst thing they can do. It has no benefit to them and gets them lots of unwanted attention, so they avoid it.

Unfortunately, within the world of these cartels, they rely on support from lower-level gangs, and the bottom level of those are just violent thugs, who are less discriminating. The drug war situation there creates such lawlessness that it creates an environment where petty violent crime can flourish. I'm sure the cartels would prefer to minimize that, but the lawlessness of the society makes it hard to stop that.