Hunting w/ Felon as observer

[Chris M]

Just wanted to throw this out there, and get some opinions.

I have a friend that's getting interested in Hunting. He was convicted of a felony in the past, but served his time, and now a free man. He would of course need to be an archery/airgun hunter, since he can't possess any firearm, including muzzle loaders. He doesn't yet have his hunting license.

I would like to take him along on a turkey hunt. I don't have any archery equipment, so I will be hunting with a shotgun. The gun and ammo will be either under my control, or locked in an airline-approved container (in the vehicle) at all times. I've made him aware that he can at no time be in possession of any firearm or ammo.

Let me know what you think.

[professionalcoyotehunter]

Usually the person with the felony can not even be in the vehicle with the weapons even if you are just transporting them somewhere.

I dont know about hunting with him either. I will look into it for you. Or you can ask your friends parole officer.

[plink182]

Not sure but as stated by ChrisM. I "think" it would still be illegal.

I seem to remember Snoop Dog getting into trouble a few years ago in LA because people he was with(his crew or what ever) had firearms while in the same vehicle. I think at least on of them was even a LEO pulling private security duty.

[Chris M]

Usually the person with the felony can not even be in the vehicle with the weapons even if you are just transporting them somewhere.

I dont know about hunting with him either. I will look into it for you. Or you can ask your friends parole officer.

Even if the firearm is in an approved lockable container?

I don't know much about parole, but I don't think he's on parole anymore. He's been free for many years now.

[plink182]

Not sure about traveling in a car with a locked container, but I dont see how the firearm can remain in a locked container if you are hunting.

[fuegoslow]

Found this, taken from wikianswers.com
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_legally_shoot_a_gun_if_you_are_a_felon

A convicted felon cannot possess a firearm. 'Possess' does not mean 'own'. If you pick one up, you have committed another felony.

[Chris M]

Not sure about traveling in a car with a locked container, but I dont see how the firearm can remain in a locked container if you are hunting.

The firearm will only be in the locked container while in the vehicle. After exiting the vehicle, I will remove the shotgun from the container, and it will be in my possession (along with the ammo) 100% of the time.

Is there any law stating that he can not be standing in proximity to someone with a firearm, or that a person holding a firearm can not be standing beside someone that's a felon?

[Chris M]

Found this, taken from wikianswers.com
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_legally_shoot_a_gun_if_you_are_a_felon

He will not have access to the firearm at any time. I will be in possession 100% of the time...thus he is just an observer, whille I do the hunting. Maybe I'll put him to work and have him call the turkeys for me.

[JDay]

Unless the firearm is under his control you should be fine.

[Chris M]

Usually the person with the felony can not even be in the vehicle with the weapons even if you are just transporting them somewhere.

I own the book "How to own a gun and stay out of jail", and have read the laws regarding possession, but have never seen anything along the lines of "Felons can not be in a vehicle that has a locked firearm in it." If you can provide further information, it would be much appreciated.

[Chris M]

Unless the firearm is under his control you should be fine.

That's what I figured, but wanted to know if anyone knew otherwise; and could provide a link to the written law that stated otherwise.

[fuegoslow]

There doesn't seem to be a problem. Especially if he doesn't pick it up. Here's the thing...I'm not trying to play Devil's Advocate, but... I don't see how this can be regulated/enforced? There won't be a felony history police on your hunt, right? Who will know if you let him squeeze off a round? If a tree falls in the forest... and there's no one around to hear it..does it still make a noise? I understand you need to get a hunting permit/license to get a TAG, but it'll be in your name. If you go on a guided hunt through an outfitter, they may ask that all members of your party have a hunting permit, but if it's just you and him...Have fun! I must say, consult the law. I'm not trying to give advice...but life's too short to miss out on sighting a buck in your crosshair. Or Roasting a turkey you called in!

[Chris M]

There won't be a felony history police on your hunt, right? Who will know if you let him squeeze off a round? If a tree falls in the forest... and there's no one around to hear it..does it still make a noise? I understand you need to get a hunting permit/license to get a TAG, but it'll be in your name. If you go on a guided hunt through an outfitter, they may ask that all members of your party have a hunting permit, but if it's just you and him...Have fun! I must say, consult the law. I'm not trying to give advice...but life's too short to miss out on sighting a buck in your crosshair. Or Roasting a turkey you called in!

I'm not going to be breaking any laws. I understand where you're coming from, but as a Christian, I follow the council at Romans 13:1,2, "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities...the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God...he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God."

I don't want to turn this into a religious discussion; I was just letting you know why I choose not to break the law, no matter how minor it may seem.

Besides, if he enjoys it, there's nothing stopping him from getting his license and buying a bow. Heck, even a .22 cal Air rifle is legal for taking turkey.

[petey]

To be on the safe side:

1 Make sure you drive YOUR vehicle not his. If stopped in his vehicle, the police can make a case that the contents of the vehicle are his.

2 Put the locked case in the trunk. If it is in a pickup truck, suv, stationwagon, etc. the police can try to make a case for joint possession, since either one of you could reach around an have access to it, regardless of the lock.

A good atty can probably beat either of these scenarios, but why take chances. As always, make sure your registration is current, and obey all traffic laws to reduce the chances of being stopped. If your local PD posts locations of DUI checkpoints ahead of time, it would be advisable to avoid them as well.

[reggie 00]

Unless fish and game pop up right as the Non licensed guy is shooting, which it doesn't look like the case since he is not going to be given the opportunity to have control of the shot gun.

How is anyone to know the guy has a felony history?

Last time i checked they didn't tattoo your forehead with "Convicted Felon"

Let him tag along and keep possession of your firearm.

If he likes it help him do up the paperwork to restore his rights if possible.

Every time i go out and get checked its:
ID
Hunting Licence
Tag
Please.

Nothing else, kind of hard to run a full blown background in the middle of no where.

[Chris M]

Unless fish and game pop up right as the Non licensed guy is shooting, which it doesn't look like the case since he is not going to be given the opportunity to have control of the shot gun.

How is anyone to know the guy has a felony history?

Last time i checked they didn't tattoo your forehead with "Convicted Felon"

Let him tag along and keep possession of your firearm.

If he likes it help him do up the paperwork to restore his rights if possible.

Every time i go out and get checked its:
ID
Hunting Licence
Tag
Please.

Nothing else, kind of hard to run a full blown background in the middle of no where.

I understand the likelihood of coming across one of the few game wardens in this state, in a public hunting area that's out in the middle of no where, is very low. My take on it is, I know it's illegal; he knows it's illegal. We're not going to break the law just because "no one's looking".

Also, advocating illegal activities on a public forum may not be the brightest idea.

If he enjoys the experience, I will encourage him to buy a bow and attend the hunter safety course.

[Chris M]

To be on the safe side:

1 Make sure you drive YOUR vehicle not his. If stopped in his vehicle, the police can make a case that the contents of the vehicle are his.

2 Put the locked case in the trunk. If it is in a pickup truck, suv, stationwagon, etc. the police can try to make a case for joint possession, since either one of you could reach around an have access to it, regardless of the lock.

A good atty can probably beat either of these scenarios, but why take chances. As always, make sure your registration is current, and obey all traffic laws to reduce the chances of being stopped. If your local PD posts locations of DUI checkpoints ahead of time, it would be advisable to avoid them as well.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I'll be taking my pickup, which doesn't have any cover over the bed. The shotgun will have to remain in the locked case in the back seat. I don't think there would be much difference if it were in a trunk anyways - all that would stand between him and the locked container is a small lever, a button on the remote, or to fold the back of the rear seat down.

[Hoop]

I think as long as he doesn't touch it you are fine. Now if it was in his car or he was carrying it around that might be different.

[beerup949]

I'm not going to be breaking any laws. I understand where you're coming from, but as a Christian, I follow the council at Romans 13:1,2, "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities...the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God...he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God."

I don't want to turn this into a religious discussion; I was just letting you know why I choose not to break the law, no matter how minor it may seem.

Besides, if he enjoys it, there's nothing stopping him from getting his license and buying a bow. Heck, even a .22 cal Air rifle is legal for taking turkey.

Isn't this quote or something similar Hitler told the churches or priests to say to help control the people? I have also heard similar stories in the states now with priests being contacted by gov to help in a similar way. Hmmm....

[ilbob]

I own the book "How to own a gun and stay out of jail", and have read the laws regarding possession, but have never seen anything along the lines of "Felons can not be in a vehicle that has a locked firearm in it." If you can provide further information, it would be much appreciated.
It is often a condition of parole or probation though.

[LOW2000]

If he is not on parole or probation he should be fine. If he weren't allowed to be near a gun, or in the same vehicle as a gun that is in a locked case, then how could he get on a plane or something that may have another passenger with a gun that was checked in?

People on parole or probation may have a stricter set of rules placed on him, but since you said he was past that, it is strict possession. Have a safe hunt.

[Chris M]

Isn't this quote or something similar Hitler told the churches or priests to say to help control the people? I have also heard similar stories in the states now with priests being contacted by gov to help in a similar way. Hmmm....

Off topic. I have my (bible-based) reasons for obeying 'mans' law to the extent that it doesn't conflict with God's law. I'm not going to get into details on here.


Have a safe hunt.

Thanks!

[nhanson]

Proximity while on parole is much different (on parole you have no rights, your just not behind bars) than when you completely clear off your punishment. The records systems drop people off the "casual" list after they have been clear for 5 years and the only way to find about a pervious felony is through the more extensive NICS database. Casual traffics stop and ID do not utilize the NICS, they rely on an abbreviated (nothing older than 5 years, subset mostly with the state. Unless there is felony suspicion, the casual LEO inquiry will not ID your friend as a felon.

Ownership and possession are denied but, you get stopped.....they check your ID not your passenger unless it is a "felony" stop. Does not sound like you are up to any felony just don't hand him your gun.

[Chris M]

Proximity while on parole is much different (on parole you have no rights, your just not behind bars) than when you completely clear off your punishment. The records systems drop people off the "casual" list after they have been clear for 5 years and the only way to find about a pervious felony is through the more extensive NICS database. Casual traffics stop and ID do not utilize the NICS, they rely on an abbreviated (nothing older than 5 years, subset mostly with the state. Unless there is felony suspicion, the casual LEO inquiry will not ID your friend as a felon.

Ownership and possession are denied but, you get stopped.....they check your ID not your passenger unless it is a "felony" stop. Does not sound like you are up to any felony just don't hand him your gun.

I appreciate the additional info. I'll talk it over with him tonight, and make sure we're both on the same page. Thanks!

[beerup949]

Off topic. I have my (bible-based) reasons for obeying 'mans' law to the extent that it doesn't conflict with God's law. I'm not going to get into details on here.




Thanks!

I agree with you...But I was just saying watch out because this did happen in the past and history repeats itself. Don't confuse gov with god etc. You are your own person and we are all created equal.