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View Full Version : California Legal M4 -Shoot Anywhere?


mls343
03-19-2009, 9:47 AM
Hello Calguns,

I'm a newbie to this forum but I have a question, that I hope, is appropriate for this section of the forum. I built a M4 system on a Territorial Gunsmiths lower and a Double Star Upper. I have also installed a "bullet button," which from what I can tell, makes this a fixed magizine weapon.

Question: Can I legally shoot this in California's National Forest?

I have an annual guys trip where we go up to the Stanislaus River (near Mosquito lakes - HWY 4). We take weapons, but since the silly ban, nothing that resembles anything AR15ish. I would love to take this handy little M4 with me, but I sure would be pissed if I lost it to some silly interpertation to the law...

Any input is most apprecited and sorry if I posted this in the wrong place due to being a rookie.

Thanks!

Fate
03-19-2009, 10:04 AM
It's legal.

Though you should be able to explain "why" in case you run into a LEO who's not up to speed. Good idea to carry the flowchart and some other of the documents posted here if you can't quote the penal code by heart.

supermario
03-19-2009, 12:36 PM
Sorry to be hijack thread, but I am also curious, would it really help if i carried the flow chart and maybe my paperwork with my OLL type rifles when i go shooting or hunting on National Forest? Where can i find the FLOW CHART on this site? What section? Thanks and sorry to bother.

GP3
03-19-2009, 12:37 PM
Sorry to be hijack thread, but I am also curious, would it really help if i carried the flow chart and maybe my paperwork with my OLL type rifles when i go shooting or hunting on National Forest? Where can i find the FLOW CHART on this site? What section? Thanks and sorry to bother.

It surely wouldn't hurt to carry it.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

Frijolito1988
03-19-2009, 12:40 PM
Sorry to be hijack thread, but I am also curious, would it really help if i carried the flow chart and maybe my paperwork with my OLL type rifles when i go shooting or hunting on National Forest? Where can i find the FLOW CHART on this site? What section? Thanks and sorry to bother.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

mls343
03-19-2009, 1:24 PM
Thanks, guys. This is real helpful.

I'm looking forward to picking up my new M4 tomorrow!:thumbsup:

Cheers!

Vtec44
03-19-2009, 1:25 PM
I've gone shooting with my CA legal M4 on BLM's land before.

COBRA MASTER
03-19-2009, 1:33 PM
you can shoot it anywhere if you have it set up to shoot 22lr or 9mm.

indoor range won't allow .556

COBRA MASTER
03-19-2009, 1:34 PM
can u post a link to the "flow chart" and any other essential documents to carry with your rifle


It's legal.

Though you should be able to explain "why" in case you run into a LEO who's not up to speed. Good idea to carry the flowchart and some other of the documents posted here if you can't quote the penal code by heart.

evan69
03-19-2009, 1:36 PM
Just carry multiple copies of every piece of penal code relevant to your rifle. Have the sections of interest highlighted and show the officer(if you are unlucky enough to run into one) why your rifle is legal.

mls343
03-19-2009, 1:41 PM
Ya, I was told BLM was cool, but everyone I talked to was unclear on national Forest land. National Forest was one of those grey areas, for me, that I could not get any real confirmation on.

Here is a quick summary of what I know:

National Parks = No
BLM = Yes
State Parks = No
National Forest = Yes, most likely.

The most common explanation I have heard is if you can shoot in a place with a non-assault type of weapon, then it should be ok to shoot an M4, as it is configured, because it is not considered an assault weapon (fixed.

I think the flow chart confirms this, but it still would not account for a Forest Ranger who had to sleep on the couch because he had a fight with his girlfriend the night before...

Vtec44
03-19-2009, 1:41 PM
I don't carry the CalGun's flow chart (no offense to the people that spent a lot of time to create that awesome chart for us). I carry the official California Assault Weapon Identification Guide, specifically Penal Code section 12276 and 12276.1 and the Glossary, my DROS paper work for each gun that I carry, and a copy of the 4473 form for each long rifle that I carry.

b.faust
03-19-2009, 1:47 PM
you can shoot it anywhere if you have it set up to shoot 22lr or 9mm.

indoor range won't allow 5.56

Some do, but you're required to use frangible ammunition.
Best to call ahead and ask.

B.

Omega13device
03-19-2009, 2:17 PM
I don't carry the CalGun's flow chart (no offense to the people that spent a lot of time to create that awesome chart for us). I carry the official California Assault Weapon Identification Guide, specifically Penal Code section 12276 and 12276.1 and the Glossary, my DROS paper work for each gun that I carry, and a copy of the 4473 form for each long rifle that I carry.
You should carry the Kasler list too - http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf

12276 uses the "AR-15 Series" and "AK Series" wording but you need the Kasler list to know what's on the list vs. off-list (OLL).

I also keep a copy of CCR 5469 which defines "capacity to accept a detachable magazine". Click here to see it. (http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/Default.aspx?cnt=Document&db=CA-ADC-TOC%3BRVADCCATOC&docname=11CAADCS5469&findtype=W&fn=_top&ifm=NotSet&rlt=CLID_FQRLT75825151517193&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault.wl&rs=WEBL9.02&service=Find&spa=CCR-1000&vr=2.0)

missiontrails
03-19-2009, 2:37 PM
I would like to know where I can shoot in a national forest closest to San Diego...

kakpataka
03-19-2009, 2:41 PM
Keep the Sac PD OLL memo at hand.

Vtec44
03-19-2009, 3:20 PM
You should carry the Kasler list too - http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf


I actually have that too, but forgot type it in. :D The Glossary section of the official California Assault Weapon Identification Guide (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf) defines "detachable" and specifies that bullet is a tool. It's always good to know the PC, and what makes your rifle legal, by heart. :thumbsup:

So
1. Kasler list (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf) (print it with all the form seals and logos)
2. California Penal Code 12276 and 12276.1 (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php) (print it with all the form seals and logos).
3. California Assault Weapon Identification Guide (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf) (print it with all the form seals and logos).
4. DROS paperwork for each rifle/gun.
5. A photocopy of your Federal 4473 Firearm Transaction Form.
6. Don't attract unecessary attention to yourself.

big al
03-19-2009, 6:46 PM
Some do, but you're required to use frangible ammunition.
Best to call ahead and ask.

B.
jackson arms in so city is ok with .556 w/ some restrictions on the type of bullet.

supersonic
03-19-2009, 6:58 PM
you can shoot it anywhere if you have it set up to shoot 22lr or 9mm.

indoor range won't allow .556
jackson arms in so city is ok with .556 w/ some restrictions on the type of bullet.

Just so you guys know, it's 5.56- .556 would be a .50 caliber+ AR!!!!;)

ocg 03
03-19-2009, 8:10 PM
And for the record the M4 has selectable fire. Most of us have AR's.

Vtec44
03-19-2009, 8:26 PM
I think he meant M4 replica.

joelukehart
03-19-2009, 10:28 PM
Is that bear country/Mexican marijuana grower country? If so I would a 12 gauge shotgun as well as the M4.

reidnez
03-20-2009, 12:39 AM
you can shoot it anywhere if you have it set up to shoot 22lr or 9mm.

indoor range won't allow .556

That depends on the range. I've shot 5.56 at two indoor ranges--just call ahead and ask. Of course, indoor ranges are usually limited to 25 yards and that's child's play with a rifle...

mls343
03-20-2009, 3:46 AM
Yes, M4 replica - to be official. Technically, at least for me anyway, it is only a semi-automatic, centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine. :D

That's my story and I'm sticking to it... :cool2:

GP3
03-20-2009, 7:55 AM
Congrats on your new gun.