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walter
03-12-2009, 1:02 AM
what's the big deal with people saying its harder for a newbie to master DA/SA..

once you rack the slide to load the first shot you are already shooting single action anyways.

and if you de-cocked all you need to do is pull the hammer making it SA

i dont think anyone would de-cock and shoot DA every shot. so why do it on the first one when it takes half a second to pull the hammer?

Gio
03-12-2009, 1:28 AM
I am lost, maybe I have to read through some of the other threads :confused: So what you are saying is that others say DA is harder to hadle over a SA pistol? Should be the other way around, I like my SA over my DA pistol just for the fact that I know I cannot accidentally discharge my firearm if I trip or accidentally get a hold of the trigger. Then again my SA has a Palm Safety so it really has to be one of those freakish times where it were to possibly happen.

I also like my DA pistol for the simple fact that if I leave the safety on and squeeze the trigger and it stops it I can just undo the safety and pull the trigger again without having to manually cock back the hammer :D

-Gio

9mmlaw
03-12-2009, 6:26 AM
Because if you are using the pistol for a home defense or CCW weapon you are not going to leave it cocked and unlocked (or shouldn't) and racking the slide or pulling back the hammer could be just enough time lost to make you dead.

Thus, in this circumstance the first shot will be DA and then SA. Some people feel that the first DA shot effects accuracy and that the trigger pull should be the same on all shots. Whether you agree or not is up to you to decide.

dfletcher
03-12-2009, 7:15 AM
I have a CZ 97 as my home defense gun and chose it in part because it is DA/SA and I can keep it fully loaded with the hammer down, which I prefer to not do with a 1911 (fully loaded, hammer back) even though I like a 1911 in general better than any DA/SA semi. Due to the markedly different trigger pull between the 1st DA shot and all the follow ups, some people find it more difficult to shoot and make the transition from DA to SA.

I'd liken the change to that of a DA revolver if you did DA for the 1st shot then SA for the rest, it's different and the shooter has to adjust a bit. I suppose the fit of the gun & grips and size of your hands would contribute.

I don't think the transition is difficult, personally the almost universally lousy SA triggers on DA/SA semis bother me a whole lot more than the DA to SA bit.

Bird of Fire
03-12-2009, 8:11 AM
what's the big deal with people saying its harder for a newbie to master DA/SA..

once you rack the slide to load the first shot you are already shooting single action anyways.

and if you de-cocked all you need to do is pull the hammer making it SA

i dont think anyone would de-cock and shoot DA every shot. so why do it on the first one when it takes half a second to pull the hammer?

1. Because it's like trying to learn how to shoot 2 different pistols.

2. K. That's great if I'm already starting to shoot. What if I want to store the pistol in my home ready to go? First shot will be DA.

3. That's a pretty fine motor skill to be performing if I hear a bump in the night.

4. I do it specifically to practice getting that first DA shot consistent. If you're not already doing it, you probably should.

Black Majik
03-12-2009, 8:20 AM
what's the big deal with people saying its harder for a newbie to master DA/SA..

once you rack the slide to load the first shot you are already shooting single action anyways.

and if you de-cocked all you need to do is pull the hammer making it SA

i dont think anyone would de-cock and shoot DA every shot. so why do it on the first one when it takes half a second to pull the hammer?

Shooting like that is fine at the range, but using it for a defensive gun needs to be carried the way it's intended to be, decocked with first shot at DA.

Likewise to shooting a revolver, cocking the hammer to shoot single action at paper is different than learning to shoot it DAO as it was intended to be used. A 686 shouldn't be fired like a vaquero.

With each gun, if it's going to be used other than range time, learn to use it as the action is intended. One should consider what type of action he/she wants to use and train on it be it SAO, DA/SA, DAO, safe fire, LEM, LDA, or DAK.

aca72
03-12-2009, 8:37 AM
To simplify a DA/SA pistol...

DA- first shot.

SA- to unleash all the lead.

Moto4Fun
03-12-2009, 12:54 PM
I try to practice the DA trigger pull quite a bit because the SA is easy! If you can get the first one target, the rest should follow. Definitely want to practice how it will be used under stress. For a 10 rd mag, try this: DA first, SA second and third, Decock. DA 4th shot, SA 5th,6th shot, Decock. DA 7th, SA 8th, 9th,and 10th. Some variation there of should be a nice simulation.

As far as the complications of a DA/SA gun; there can be a few extra knobs, buttons, levers and the trigger action may be different. It may take some time to get used to operating everything, and relative to a Khar PM9 (DA only) would certainly be "More complicated" for a newbie. But I would say any gun should be given some serious time to figure out the action and operation, and a DA/SA type gun with decocker is IMO the easiest and safest to operate other than a DA revolver.

Phred
03-12-2009, 11:18 PM
Contrary to most beliefs, it's the second shot (the SA shot) that ends up in the dirt when the s*** hits the fan.

You can practice and practice the first shot (DA) and end up with a decent outcome even in a difficult situation. It's the hurry-up double second shot (the SA pull) that will get jerked low left (strong hand = right). That's because the brain says it took 20# to get that last shot off so this next shot must need the same pull, when in fact it only needs 10#. It takes discipline, particularly in the heat of combat, to master controlled trigger manipulation on actions that change.

This doesn't mean DA/SA transition is impossible to master, it just takes someone who can master it.. Hence the general recommendation for new/occasional shooters to choose either a DA only (revolver included), SA only (cocked and locked) or Safe Action type gun.

Pphred.

Moto4Fun
03-13-2009, 7:37 AM
I am in agreement with that, even though the way I said it doesn't make it as clear. I think practicing the DA pull is critical as it is more difficult to do it accurately, but it is the transition to SA that is most important. This is why practicing one DA and two SA shots makes sense to me. Other training techniques may exist and should be posted up!