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user01394
03-11-2009, 9:25 PM
I have small children and am concerned about them getting any lead in their system. I read an article in guns and ammo about some speciality products to wash with. I wanted to know what you guys use to wash yourself and your clothes.

Additionally do you have "shooting clothes" and do you take any additonal measures beyond showering/laundry?

I am the overly paranoid type when it comes to this topic so to some of you I probably sound a little strange but I don't want any harm to come to my children, or even the possibility of such a thing.

Dark&Good
03-11-2009, 9:31 PM
This might help:

http://www.npjonline.com/NPJMain.nsf/504ca249c786e20f85256284006da7ab/43402eaafe155ff1862566ad00729d2e?OpenDocument

http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733810681

gun toting monkeyboy
03-11-2009, 9:43 PM
Guys, relax. Take a shower and scrub. Put the clothes in the washer, along with the towel from the shower. Wash them. Poof. You're done. Don't let your kids chew on the bullets, and don't eat or smoke during or after shooting until you wash your hands. Lead isn't the greatest, but people are going way overboard on its toxicity. It isn't plutonium people.

rabagley
03-11-2009, 9:56 PM
I also have a young daughter and a pregnant wife and I take some care after shooting or casting. I do this by taking off my clothes and putting them in the laundry as soon as I get home and I take a nice warm shower.

I don't use special detergents because the lead hasn't reacted with the clothes. What lead was released by the primers and possibly from lead bullets (this is less likely) is picked up as small quantities of lead dust. Dust will be removed and washed away by normal detergents.

Now, to be perfectly honest, I suspect that, even with precautions, I bring inside more lead after an afternoon of casting than an afternoon of shooting, and that the amounts on my clothes after an afternoon of shooting are small enough that the risk is minimal, but I wash them immediately anyway.

762cavalier
03-11-2009, 10:01 PM
Just lick it off:D:thumbsup:

oaklander
03-11-2009, 10:05 PM
Kill it with fire!

http://www.speakeasy.org/~talshoe/lj/kill%20it%20with%20fire.jpg

Saigon1965
03-11-2009, 10:10 PM
You 2 don't have kids huh - LOL -


Just lick it off:D:thumbsup:

Kill it with fire!

http://www.speakeasy.org/~talshoe/lj/kill%20it%20with%20fire.jpg

USN CHIEF
03-11-2009, 10:13 PM
O.k, I have been shooting and smoking for 15 years now. I don't wash my hands before I smoke. when will I start seing the Lead defects on me?

Saigon1965
03-11-2009, 10:15 PM
Guey - It has already happened to you man - Look in the mirror and check your pants - LOL

O.k, I have been shooting and smoking for 15 years now. I don't wash my hands before I smoke. when will I start seing the Lead defects on me?

N6ATF
03-11-2009, 10:33 PM
I'm really sensitive to all chemicals and can smell GSR all over my clothes and skin. Strangely I don't have hives or sneezing attacks because of it. It takes a few regular soap showers to not notice it anymore, no shampoo needed because my head is shaved.

I'll usually wear my pair of white cargo pants and a thin long-sleeve shirt or windbreaker, and same pair of hiking boots each time, that I wash and leave outside to air dry. And of course my avatar hat.

sorensen440
03-11-2009, 10:34 PM
O.k, I have been shooting and smoking for 15 years now. I don't wash my hands before I smoke. when will I start seing the Lead defects on me?
When enough builds up in your system

Dark&Good
03-11-2009, 10:38 PM
Lead is a cumulative poison... like radiation or mercury. There's a rough average limit a body can handle, modified by personal tolerance.

savs2k
03-11-2009, 10:52 PM
hahahha oak that made me laugh pretty hard

devildog999
03-11-2009, 10:58 PM
Soap and water for the body. Laundry detergent for the clothes ;)

oaklander
03-11-2009, 11:01 PM
I usually take a shower right after I come back from the range. I make sure I scrub my face really well. I launder the clothes I was wearing. When my daughter was living with me, I would make sure I washed my face and hands before I touched her.

:)

MrKyle
03-11-2009, 11:57 PM
You could buy something that chelates the lead if you're really paranoid. I'm sure there are synthetic chelators as well as natural. Or perhaps increase your iron intake if you're in contact with lead all the time.

gbp
03-12-2009, 4:39 AM
I would like to see documented evedence where this has ever caused health problems in the recreational shooter.
The next thing we will see is someone proposing a bill to make guns illegal in our best interest and because they know more than we do, but it will be for our own safety and health. oh wait they have already started with the condor bill my bad

7x57
03-12-2009, 8:55 AM
Some very crude and indirect evidence is the recent study of lead in hunters. While there seemed to be some lead impact, their average levels were lower than the general population. The study was about ingested lead from game, but it's hard to get game without shooting, and shooters are more likely to do other gunnie things like reload. The fact that the overall levels were low suggests to me that the total cumulative impact is negligible.

You would think bullet casting would be a problem, but the one case I have heard of where lead poisoning was verified from gun activities turned out to be from lead dust from primer residue around his case tumbler. So my suggestion would be to first of all take care when and how you clean cases. Beyond that, that suggests that primer residue in the air at an indoor range is probably worth being careful about (and I think that one is also a verified risk, in that poorly ventilated indoor ranges often require lead-free primers).

In the end, smart or not I don't worry about lead otherwise, even if handling lead bullets, though I do wash my hands even though most of the residue is probably lube rather than lead oxide. I'm a bit more concerned with my boy's exposure, but I won't limit his shooting activities as he gets older because of that. I will make sure he takes some precautions, however.

7x57

Fate
03-12-2009, 10:22 AM
I let condors pick me clean. :D

tgriffin
03-12-2009, 10:28 AM
So its a bad thing if I snorted a line off the air circulator at the indoor range?















;)

Riodog
03-12-2009, 10:41 AM
"When my daughter was living with me, I would make sure I washed my face and hands before I touched her."

Must be the 50 years of lead poisoning that finally got to me but that statement almost made me lose my coffee on the keyboard. LOL
Rio

Rick530
03-12-2009, 10:47 AM
Lead paint was used for YEARS and I dont see people dropping dead all over the place from that. RELAX...

rkt88edmo
03-12-2009, 11:03 AM
One thing I try to pay attention to for my kids is my footwear. Probably more particulates picked up there than anywhere else.

30Cal
03-12-2009, 11:05 AM
I use soap.

Beelzy
03-12-2009, 11:11 AM
I would wash the hands and face, the clothes like normal.

Anymore time or energy than that is probably better spent figuring out how to
keep the Radon from seeping up into the house from underground. ;-)

Decoligny
03-12-2009, 11:15 AM
I'm really sensitive to all chemicals and can smell GSR all over my clothes and skin. Strangely I don't have hives or sneezing attacks because of it. It takes a few regular soap showers to not notice it anymore, no shampoo needed because my head is shaved.

I'll usually wear my pair of white cargo pants and a thin long-sleeve shirt or windbreaker. And of course my avatar hat.

People who are really sensitive to certain odors often times fail to realize that the one place where they can collect is in the mucus of your nose. The smell probably isn't going away because you haven't cleaned out the inside of your nasal passages.

After shooting, I will always take a bottle of saline and spray several shots of it up each nostril to wash out any powder residue, and the associated smell then goes away.

user01394
03-12-2009, 11:29 AM
I know I am being overly paranoid but especially with indoor ranges and small kids I don't want anything to happen. Obviously showering well and washing my clothes separately would probably be sufficient. However like previously mentioned even shoes are something that could cause lead to travel to my kids should they touch them and put their hands in their mouth which kids do.

I will have to find the article that guns and ammo wrote and post back here with the products they suggested, anyone remember this article and what month it was?

rkt88edmo
03-12-2009, 11:33 AM
and for the shoes I don't bother cleaning them, I just have one pair of boots or old tennis shoes I use at the range and keep them bagged in the garage. They don't come in the house.

sorensen440
03-12-2009, 11:38 AM
Lead paint was used for YEARS and I dont see people dropping dead all over the place from that. RELAX...
There is a big difference between lead paint on a wall and lead dust floating in the air and landing on everything around the shooting

Sam1
03-12-2009, 12:34 PM
use lead free "green" ammo, I'm also a bit paranoid when it comes to dealing with things that cause cancer that's one reason why I don't touch my guns or ammo much unless I really need to in an emergency or if I'm going to the range

AKman
03-12-2009, 12:57 PM
use lead free "green" ammo, I'm also a bit paranoid when it comes to dealing with things that cause cancer that's one reason why I don't touch my guns or ammo much unless I really need to in an emergency or if I'm going to the range

You forgot the ;). Lead is not a carcinogen, and, BTW, copper is also considered toxic, although not as soluble or mobile as lead.

Did anyone here ever hear of the concept of dose-response? Unless your kid licks you a lot after shooting every day, the amount of lead exposure would be trivial. Historically, the two main exposure pathways for lead were leaded gasoline (inhalation of vehicle exhaust/air pollution) and lead-containing products (mainly paint and small metallic toys) that would be ingested by children. Most young children put inedible things in their mouths, and a smaller subset with certain vitamin deficiencies would actually chew on lead-painted surfaces. Dermal (through the skin) exposure can also occur, mainly from lead contaminated clothing and blanks (e.g., check for the Made in China label). So, unless you let your children suck on your ammo, there should not be a problem.

How many old guys here used to play with mercury?

ZRX61
03-12-2009, 12:57 PM
I read something a while back that the biggest contamination was liable to come from the carpet under the gas pedal in your car.... & that cop cars had much higher contamination than other vehicles owing to the amount of time cops spend at the range (so ya may want to put new carpets in your Crown Vic you got from auction)

ZRX61
03-12-2009, 12:59 PM
How many old guys here used to play with mercury?
A kid at my school dropped a bottle of it in Chem one day, teacher gave him a brush/dustpan & a jar of sulphur to mop it up....

30Cal
03-12-2009, 1:11 PM
I'm kind of wondering where and how the perception about lead poisoning started to go over the deep end. Is this a form of OCD?

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but it's odd how we went from 100+ years of "wash your hands before you eat" to the point where some are using pretty complicated forms of contamination control.


I will concede that tumblers are a new thing (last 20 years), but nothing else has really changed other than the Prop65 stick that goes on everything entering the state.

Fate
03-12-2009, 1:16 PM
How many old guys here used to play with mercury?
I did. I even remember my 4th grade teacher showing us how to "safely" break a mercury thermometer and get the mercury out in class. She had about a dozen and we all shared the quicksilver, rolling it around on our desks and in our hands. When we were done, we tossed it in the trash, though some of us boys kept ours in our desks til the end of the year.

ZRX61
03-12-2009, 1:37 PM
I'm kind of wondering where and how the perception about lead poisoning started to go over the deep end. Is this a form of OCD?
Considering they just banned the sale of dirt bikles, quads etc for kids... owing to then eating parts that may contain lead..then yes, it must be

AKman
03-12-2009, 1:52 PM
Considering they just banned the sale of dirt bikles, quads etc for kids... owing to then eating parts that may contain lead..then yes, it must be

Sounds like a perfect reason to ban ammo. Some stupid kid might eat it and be in contention for a Darwin Award.

When did society become so collectively stupid and afraid of everything?

N6ATF
03-12-2009, 2:16 PM
People who are really sensitive to certain odors often times fail to realize that the one place where they can collect is in the mucus of your nose. The smell probably isn't going away because you haven't cleaned out the inside of your nasal passages.

After shooting, I will always take a bottle of saline and spray several shots of it up each nostril to wash out any powder residue, and the associated smell then goes away.

Personally I don't like putting stuff up my nose, but I do try to flush anyway. FWIW, after a shower and nose blowing fest, the smell varies depending on my nose's proximity to my shooting garments.

oaklander
03-12-2009, 2:24 PM
"When my daughter was living with me, I would make sure I washed my face and hands before I touched her."

Must be the 50 years of lead poisoning that finally got to me but that statement almost made me lose my coffee on the keyboard. LOL
Rio

Ooops!

Yes, that did come out kind of funny.

Rick530
03-12-2009, 2:32 PM
There is a big difference between lead paint on a wall and lead dust floating in the air and landing on everything around the shooting

True but damn some people are waaaaaay paranoid. Seem severything will eventually kill you or give you cancer..and so on... Life's to damn short to worry about every little thing you may come in contact with...



I love the smell of napalm in the morning... :D

xrMike
03-12-2009, 2:32 PM
O.k, I have been shooting and smoking for 15 years now. I don't wash my hands before I smoke. when will I start seing the Lead defects on me?Well, I read somewhere that the first sign of lead poisoning is when people start getting obsessive about certain things. They start doing a few behaviors over and over, and they can't help themselves.

It's different for every person. Some people start washing their hands all the time. Others can't think about anything except sex, or masturbating, or nekkid girls. For other people, it's reloading. You just never know what it's gonna be. ;)

odysseus
03-12-2009, 3:47 PM
Just be responsible and use common sense. Absolutely I think it is fine to be more paranoid than not around a pregnant woman and infant\children. Just be sure to segregate materials exposed to lead and clean them segregated too, and be wary of the materials you use - especially when cleaning firearms.

As others have said, it is about time and amount of exposure that effects accumulation in the system. Lead can be everywhere so apply common sense, but be wary for children - that is when very small amounts have a larger effect.

.

rtlltj
03-12-2009, 3:50 PM
As long as you don't inhale or ingest it dont worry about it.

Dark&Good
03-12-2009, 5:41 PM
I let condors pick me clean. :D

:rofl2:

Thefeeder
03-12-2009, 5:56 PM
My Dad was Dick Caney'ed when he was a teen...yes, while quail hunting, he had three lead pellets in his ears for 60+ years.

People live with bullets in them......so whats the real scoop on lead ...I guess one would have to ask an attorney

Nodda Duma
03-12-2009, 7:23 PM
I'm more worried about my kids eating dirt and dried rabbit pellets than I am lead contamination after a day of shooting at the range. It's just not a lot of lead (esp. compared to how much dirt and dried rabbit pellets they seem to pick up).

-Jason

Capt. Speirs
03-12-2009, 8:20 PM
I also have a young daughter and a pregnant wife and I take some care after shooting or casting. I do this by taking off my clothes and putting them in the laundry as soon as I get home and I take a nice warm shower.

I don't use special detergents because the lead hasn't reacted with the clothes. What lead was released by the primers and possibly from lead bullets (this is less likely) is picked up as small quantities of lead dust. Dust will be removed and washed away by normal detergents.

Now, to be perfectly honest, I suspect that, even with precautions, I bring inside more lead after an afternoon of casting than an afternoon of shooting, and that the amounts on my clothes after an afternoon of shooting are small enough that the risk is minimal, but I wash them immediately anyway.

You get more lead from Chinese made products than anything else.

joea
03-12-2009, 8:43 PM
Here's the soap they have in the restroom at Iron Sites O'side.
http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1262
D-Lead Hand Soap

Get the Lead Out!

D-Lead« Hand Soap provides safe and complete removal of lead and other heavy metals in a fast acting, grease cutting formula ... but without any silica abrasives.

Extra strength to effectively remove lead from hands even when coated with tough greases, oils, adhesives, dirt and hydraulic fluids. No harsh solvents or chemicals to irritate the skin and no EDTA to interfere with wastewater. A fast-acting hand cleaner which provides thorough, effective cleaning and decontamination.

If you need an abrasive hand soap for extra heavy duty cleaning, see our D-Lead« Abrasive Hand Soap. Both types are equally effective at removing lead and other heavy metals.

Q: I already wash my hands after shootng or reloading. Why do I need a special soap?
A: D-Lead« Hand Soap was designed specifically to remove lead and other heavy metals from skin. The chart at left shows removal of lead compounds by D-Lead« Hand Soap compared to conventional hand soap after 60 seconds of washing. D-Lead« Hand Soap removes significantly more lead than conventional soap.

Riodog
03-12-2009, 9:07 PM
Ooops!

Yes, that did come out kind of funny.

You do know that I was just teasing you, I hope!

I'm kind of wondering where and how the perception about lead poisoning started to go over the deep end. Is this a form of OCD?

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but it's odd how we went from 100+ years of "wash your hands before you eat" to the point where some are using pretty complicated forms of contamination control.

This type of paranoia leads to people accepting ever stringent gun control laws " for the safety of all and the children".

I will concede that tumblers are a new thing (last 20 years), but nothing else has really changed other than the Prop65 stick that goes on everything entering the state.

WRONG. I've been using "tumblers" since the late 60's. I started by using my Dad's rock polishing tumbler. I've got a pair, down from 4, that I use for everything from brass to custom boat parts, both stainless and aluminum, to anything else that needs finishing. That includes the smaller parts off of 1911's, EBR's, screws and such from S&W revolvers, etc.

Rio
ps.....49 years of sniffing gunpowder fumes, primer exhaust, lead dust and stilling going strong.

N6ATF
03-19-2009, 4:26 PM
Pretty sure I was turned onto this in another shooting lead discussion:
http://www.amazon.com/Hygenall-20-Wipe-3-Pack/dp/B001SJ0JIU/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1S3JL8VB384GQ&colid=2BBZ0NVUJ5U5I

Hygenall is the first product safe for daily use that is effective at removing 98% of lead oxide from the skin as a result of incidental exposure to products that contain lead such as toys. Hygenall removes toxic metals, dirt, and germs from the skin. Toxic metals are found in toys, household products, and work environments. Hygenall is a wipe that requires rinsing with fresh water after use, and should be displayed near the "Soap" area shelves.

johnny_22
03-19-2009, 5:20 PM
Here's the soap they have in the restroom at Iron Sites O'side.
http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1262
D-Lead Hand Soap

Get the Lead Out!

D-Lead« Hand Soap provides safe and complete removal of lead and other heavy metals in a fast acting, grease cutting formula ... but without any silica abrasives.

Extra strength to effectively remove lead from hands even when coated with tough greases, oils, adhesives, dirt and hydraulic fluids. No harsh solvents or chemicals to irritate the skin and no EDTA to interfere with wastewater. A fast-acting hand cleaner which provides thorough, effective cleaning and decontamination.

If you need an abrasive hand soap for extra heavy duty cleaning, see our D-Lead« Abrasive Hand Soap. Both types are equally effective at removing lead and other heavy metals.

Q: I already wash my hands after shootng or reloading. Why do I need a special soap?
A: D-Lead« Hand Soap was designed specifically to remove lead and other heavy metals from skin. The chart at left shows removal of lead compounds by D-Lead« Hand Soap compared to conventional hand soap after 60 seconds of washing. D-Lead« Hand Soap removes significantly more lead than conventional soap.

I have bottles of the hand soap at work and at home at all of the sinks. Laundry detergent next to the washer for the clothes.

Remember, cold water, so your pores don't open up.

8200rpm
03-19-2009, 7:59 PM
I would like to see documented evedence where this has ever caused health problems in the recreational shooter.


Here's some interesting anecdotal evidence...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307170

If you shoot or reload on a regular basis, it might not be a bad idea to have your lead levels tested during your next check up/blood test. Best to know the facts than to just brush this off as something trivial.

It's your health. But if you have kids, why expose them to a toxin that lowers their IQ?

Curtis
03-20-2009, 12:17 AM
O.k, I have been shooting and smoking for 15 years now. I don't wash my hands before I smoke. when will I start seing the Lead defects on me?

Lead causes reduced IQ...being in the Navy, I can see why you haven't notice anything.

People live with bullets in them......

There is actually a fair amount research on the subject. Lead pellets are the worst because there typically are more of them. The main problem is when they are close to large joints that lead poisoning becomes and issue.

I have a large .45 in my neck and it hasn't increased the lead in my blood. I get checked every year or two.

It can be a big issue with children. I wash my hands, clothes, and cleaning rags so my kids aren't exposed.

BamBam-31
03-20-2009, 1:00 AM
+1 on the D-Lead. I have the wipes and the hand soap.
Also another +1 w/ the shower immediately after range or reloading sessions. Cheap insurance for the kids, eh? ;)

Baron
03-20-2009, 10:03 AM
After shooting I like to clean my face off with the shirt I was wearing. I just rub my face all in my shirt. Since when has lead hurt anyone? I've been eating paint for years....

Seriuosly though, I just make sure to wash my hands after I shoot. Specially if we go out to lunch afterwards. When I get home I usually change into some jeans or something.... or I just run around naked :eek:

sierratangofoxtrotunion
03-20-2009, 2:15 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/kasudyo/DSC03776a.jpg

ToxicBattlefield
10-06-2009, 11:48 AM
Lead is sticky stuff, and when using firearms, particularly handguns, around 1,000 ug of lead is deposited on the skin. Is this dangerous? Maybe not to you, immedietly, but to others, especially children, YES! It doesnt take a lot of unseen lead dust to poison a child through "toxic hand-off." The body doesnt know what to do with lead, so it uses it as if it were calcium. Growing children use calcium voraciously, especially in the brain, nerve tissue, bone, and organs. The CDC has actually mapped lead exposure over time cognitive skills, namely I.Q.. I know that the military uses Hygenall FieldScrub products (www.argentechsolutions.com) for decontaminating soldiers, weapons, field artillary, tanks, tents, you name it. The key is to use a product that doesnt contain things like alcohol (changes skin chemistry, and causes lead to penetrate, plus alcohol doesnt clean anything...it just dries out the skin and kills bugs), betains, EDTA, or other toxic stuff. Soap and water doesnt remove lead very well, if at all, and avoid anything that contains abrasives as they make microscopic cuts and scrapes and causes lead to penetrate the skin, and be especially wary of any product that claims to remove lead, yet doesnt require rinsing! Otherwise you are just pushing the lead around, or hiding it as lead citriate, which is just as dangerous. Also, watch out for products that contain skin softeners or even worse, Aloe! Aloe is one of the few plants that absorbes lead out of the ground, and gives it to you! In general, skin softners act like conveyor belts, they convey anything on the skin, including germs and lead, through all the layers of the skin, making removal almost impossible. I found a lot of information about lead here: http://www.hygenall.com/reference.html

ToxicBattlefield
10-06-2009, 11:58 AM
This is what you need:

http://argentechsolutions.com/images/fieldscrub%20toxic%20battlefield%20640.jpg

Turo
10-06-2009, 12:17 PM
My mom was always paranoid about stuff like this when I was growing up, and I guess that's why I'm so blasÚ about it. I go shooting, I wash my hands at the restaurant we eat at after shooting to get the dirt off, and I don't worry about it anymore.

yes, lead poisoning is a serious issue, but there has to be lots of contact for long periods of time before it even should be considered an issue.

WeekendWarrior
10-06-2009, 3:32 PM
WWRTW

Hunter158
10-06-2009, 7:21 PM
One of my best friends works for an industrial battery place... They buy powdered lead, smelt it, form it into plates and MAKE lead acid batteries.

In other words, If there is anyone getting lead on themselves, it's this guy!!!

He comes home, takes his shoes off in the garage, and goes and hugs the boys. He's been tested and had both of his kids tested every year for the past 5 years. Nothing even shows up on the tests. He was all paranoid at first too, but his doctor has told him not to worry.

YMMV, and all that, but it's more smell than anything. Maybe a little GSR from shooting, and I have no idea how good that is for others, but I doubt lead is a big issue. As for the who played with Mercury question. Yep, sure did. In public school. Brought some home too. Fun stuff.

SanSacto
10-06-2009, 7:23 PM
I inhaled a small cloud of whatever crap comes out of an AK today at the range. I thought to myself "This can't be healthy!" then I proceeded to load blast another mag. I just make sure I wash my hands before I eat, that's about it.

Sunwolf
10-07-2009, 7:02 AM
If lead was soooooooooo poisonous half the wounded vets would be dead already.I knew quite a few that had inoperable lead bullets in the body.