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View Full Version : Remington Golden Saber or Federal HST


BLC
03-11-2009, 4:20 PM
Has anybody had any experience with the .45 ACP 230 gr from either of these brands? I am new to the .45 and have not yet tried any HD/SD ammo. I want to buy while the gettings good, its damn scarce.

kato4moto
03-11-2009, 7:12 PM
This is good reading from AR15.com: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

HeavyArms
03-11-2009, 7:16 PM
The HST retains velocity better after going through several obstructions and expands MUCH BETTER. They expand almost to the size of a quarter. Check this out- the hst is on the left. (The one on the right is a Federal Hydra Shock)

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/creative357/HSTProfile.jpg

Jonathan Doe
03-11-2009, 7:47 PM
It is a matter of how much they penetrate and how they expand to transfer energy. Golden Saber, HST, SXT, Gold Dot are all good bullets. Starfires tend to have bullet core and jacket separation when I tested it. SXTs performed well from what I see in daily life.

Darklyte27
03-11-2009, 7:59 PM
hst hst hst!!

scr83jp
03-11-2009, 8:04 PM
One of my favorite 45acp bullets is the discontinued Speer 200 gr JHP known as the flying ashcan or dixie cup which was used by many LE officers for many years.

BLC
03-11-2009, 9:03 PM
$48 bucks for 1 box of the HST shipped and no target ammo I can shoot anywhere! Looks like I have a safe queen for a while.

HeavyArms
03-12-2009, 9:52 AM
$48 bucks for 1 box of the HST shipped and no target ammo I can shoot anywhere! Looks like I have a safe queen for a while.

If you need target ammo... this stuff is probably the most affordable. Its decent as well... it will hit what your aiming at.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/50rds-45-acp-aguila-230gr-fmj-ammo/cName/45-acp-fmj-ammo

maxicon
03-12-2009, 10:30 AM
I'm a big fan of Gold Dot, as it can be one of the less expensive defense rounds in .45, has a good reputation, and works well in my 1911.

Here it is at $34/box of 50 before shipping.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124783063
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124783090

gimebakmybulits
03-12-2009, 6:27 PM
This is a cut & paste from DocGKR, this is some good info from a guy that knows his stuff.

When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr:



As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .



Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers"”pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc...)

-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

----------------------------------------

Basically all the standard service calibers work when fed good quality ammunition. The platform picked tends to dictate the caliber. For example, Glocks and Sigs tend to run best in 9 mm; the S&W M&P is the first .40 S&W pistol that seems to offer an ideal ergonomic and shooter friendly package; while a properly customized 5" steel-frame 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. For folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with a S&W .45 ACP M&P, HK45, S&W 4566, or possibly the SA .45 ACP XD.

Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferrably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to using it for duty. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.
DocGKR

Spyder
03-12-2009, 6:51 PM
I've been shooting the hell out of Golden Saber lately, albeit it's in .40S&W, out of a Glock 22. I have no input to give, just thought that I'd throw out there that I've got a five thousand or so dollar stockpile of ammo that I get to shoot up over the next six months, that I don't have to pay for. :)

BLC
03-12-2009, 9:52 PM
I bought a little of both to try. I'm sure by the time I decide on one there will no more to be had.

Darklyte27
03-12-2009, 10:18 PM
heres my order for HST back in may 2008

1 x 50rds - 40 S&W Federal LE Tactical HST 180gr. HP Ammo $22.95
1 x 50rds - 40 S&W Federal LE Tactical HST 155gr. HP Ammo $22.95
1 x 50rds - 40 S&W Federal LE Tactical HST 165gr. HP Ammo $22.95

2 x 20rds - .308 Federal Gold Medal 168gr. Match Ammo $41.90

m1match
03-13-2009, 7:06 AM
Call California Police Equipment in San Diego. They stock Federal HST and will do mail orders. 619-280-1199 You will probably find their price much better than $48 a box. For what it's worth, HST has displayed much better performance (reliable expansion and penetration) in side by side testing in ballistic gel including through glass and barriers.

http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx

These ballistic workshops were put on by ATK which makes Speer and Federal, but they were also witnessed by the firearms guys of the hosting and guest law enforcement agencies.