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MAC USMC
03-11-2009, 12:37 PM
I an 74 years old, ex-Marine, retired police officer and a gun lover. I still can't understand the hot-dog, macho, superior, arrogant attitude I encounter in many gun shops. Some employees, not all, tend to present an image that turns off potential customers, especially those new to the gun world. Why can they not learn to project a positive image about the firearms industry?

Most of us old-timers let the BS ride, make our purchase and leave. Recently, I have started responding to it politely. I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.

bwiese
03-11-2009, 12:42 PM
Very true.

This syndrome is often accompanied by clerks spouting off completely-off-the-wall garbage about the law and/or gun politics.

socalT
03-11-2009, 12:47 PM
I think one of the most common encounters is that the prospective buyer is not "worthy" enough to purchase the weapon due to the salespersons super intelligengence on thinks considered guns. Slowly nod and move on

Squidward
03-11-2009, 12:49 PM
+1

Unfortunately, "the attitude" is pervasive.

GP3
03-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Yep. I can't stand it. Luckily, there are SOME good shops that don't have a chip on their shoulder. Take your time and pick the shops that respect their customer.

doc1buc
03-11-2009, 12:50 PM
I am a 28-year old vet and I have noticed the same thing. Usually (always) the people who are spouting the most bs have done the least in their lives. I agree that that arrogance is one contributing factor to the decline of our Rifleman Nation.

professionalcoyotehunter
03-11-2009, 12:52 PM
I agree.:iagree:

bobfried
03-11-2009, 12:54 PM
I an 74 years old, ex-Marine, retired police officer and a gun lover. I still can't understand the hot-dog, macho, superior, arrogant attitude I encounter in many gun shops. Some employees, not all, tend to present an image that turns off potential customers, especially those new to the gun world. Why can they not learn to project a positive image about the firearms industry?

Most of us old-timers let the BS ride, make our purchase and leave. Recently, I have started responding to it politely. I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.

WHAT?!?!?!

You mean not all gun shop employees are retired Gunnery SGT and serves as a part-time assistant chief to the local PD? On top of their legal education from Harvard?

I'm on the other end of the spectrum in life experience from you and it's even worse for me. I get lecture to about how young people should blah blah blah. This is usually from some guy that apparently did 2 tours in Vietnam as a MACV-SOG advisor for the Montagnard. Of course I can't help it but ignore the fact that the person spewing this amazing biography is extremely obese, handle a rifle like an emu and doesn't know much in term of military lingo; The amazing men spewing this mountain of knowledge is usually in their mid 40's, which would put them at around 12 years of age by the END of the Vietnam war.

paintballergb
03-11-2009, 1:01 PM
I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.

LOL! I love that. What I wouldn't give to witness that convo take place. :thumbsup:

Gunaria
03-11-2009, 1:08 PM
It will probably get worse too.

audihenry
03-11-2009, 1:58 PM
I an 74 years old, ex-Marine, retired police officer and a gun lover. I still can't understand the hot-dog, macho, superior, arrogant attitude I encounter in many gun shops. Some employees, not all, tend to present an image that turns off potential customers, especially those new to the gun world. Why can they not learn to project a positive image about the firearms industry?

Most of us old-timers let the BS ride, make our purchase and leave. Recently, I have started responding to it politely. I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.

So true. That's the main thing that keeps me from enjoying gun shops and/or asking questions.

dfletcher
03-11-2009, 2:05 PM
There's probably alot of hours of psychoanalysis that could go into it but I prefer the "small mind, small weenie" answer. :smilielol5:

Actually, my experience has been for the most part very good, but I do know to what the OP refers & have heard it. Call it the old boy approach, a hazing to prove you're OK, or just insecurity - I really don't know. Ultimately, doesn't it exist because we as customers allow it?

If you go to a store & find a Colt SAA for $900.00 & the owner is a bit grumpy - well, we got our good deal (he made a sale) so who cares, right? Problem is, that grumpy guy doesn't understand he's probably left money on the table. Maybe you'd have bought some ammo, reloading supplies or a holster if he was friendly. So he's lost $$$ but doesn't know it. But you will go back looking for another good deal, even knowing the owner is a pain. I "gar-on - tee.

Not an excuse, I've also seen customers go into a store & make rude as heck comments about the quality & price of the inventory right in front of the owner - like he's not even there. I suppose in theory it shouldn't bug him & the easy answer is "he shouldn't be in the business then" but I don't think that makes it any easier on the guy.

Maybe the answer is it keeps happening because it really doesn't make any difference to the bottom line.

Gryff
03-11-2009, 2:31 PM
My favorite was when the gun store employee told me that the way I grip a pistol is completely wrong. Funny...it's the same grip I used to win my class at the IDPA national championships a couple of years back.

Since I'm happily married, I just utilized my trusty Nod and Smile that Gives the Impression That I Agree with You and then left.

eckerph
03-11-2009, 4:14 PM
My favorite was when the gun store employee told me that the way I grip a pistol is completely wrong. Funny...it's the same grip I used to win my class at the IDPA national championships a couple of years back.

Since I'm happily married, I just utilized my trusty Nod and Smile that Gives the Impression That I Agree with You and then left.

yup, the old nod and smile works most of the time. Letting people bother you this much is such a waste of energy and computer wear and tear :p

surfNshoot
03-11-2009, 4:14 PM
I think I have to agree here. I’m fairly new to guns. I purchased my first gun in 2006 and was shocked by the attitude of the salesman. Yes I had some newb questions but so what. I wanted to know as much as I could before deciding on a gun. I think that some of it has to do with the lack of competition in my area. I have not been to one local place that I have not seen the macho demeaning attitude. I think the gun shops have gotten greedy and take advantage of the way CA sets the rules up. I called one local shop to have an FFL transfer done and was told no he won’t do it because I can just purchase the gun from him (for $300 more). I was floored. I was at a gun shop in WA. Last week and was shocked at how nice the people were in there. They didn’t even give me a hard time for being from ca. I doubt this thread will change anything but at least I know others feel the same way I do.

Kid Stanislaus
03-11-2009, 4:23 PM
I don't know what gun shops some of you people are partonizing but I'm here to tell ya that in these parts that sort of thing is rare and my experiences in the local gunshops has been, by in large, very positive.

jimmiya
03-11-2009, 4:30 PM
I am right with everybody else. I am still steaming on the arrogance and attitude I received when I purchased my Remington 700 Varmint at Fowler's. They are way too pricey for my taste but they were the only one around that had this model. The salesman had a "my !?#* don't stink" attitude and I just got one word answers throughout my buyout process. I am still debating on complaining to the owner or manager and tell him I will never buy a gun in there if that same salesman is employed with them. Do any of you know the managers name or owner of Fowler's? It pisses me off that I just gave them $800 to receive that kind of attitude!

JSTONE
03-11-2009, 4:51 PM
When I was younger and somebody gave me attitude I made sure I gave it back to them 10 fold.Now that I'm a little older and and a little more mellow I realize what a waste of time it was for me to stoop to their level.These days if someone gives me attitude I just smile and be glad that I'm not as miserable as they are.I have no problem letting the other guy be right,makes life a lot easier.

eccvets
03-11-2009, 4:57 PM
just tell them to go and F themselves and walk out. If their not nice, they dont get my money! Demand to see a manager and tell them about it as well. Money trumps all!

HotRails
03-11-2009, 5:35 PM
+1
If I have a question, I ask it on the forum and get a lot more intelligent answer than at a gun store...

ENTHUSIAST
03-11-2009, 5:48 PM
San Diego gunshop thread about horrible customer service... AGAIN what a surprise!

Support shops that dont treat the customer like a pain in the behind! :mad:

In San Diego I have always been treated well by:

Gussler's (Santee *Transfers ONLY*)

Quantico Tactical (Oceanside *Handguns and Tons of AR parts NO Lowers*)

Royal Loan (San Diego *OLL friendly Gun and Pawn Shop El Cajon Bl. area*)


*** If you REALLY want to have the ULTIMATE gun buying experience and uncommon customer service that SD can NEVER match go see Chris @ Bright Spot Pawn in Riverside. :) ***

chickenfried
03-11-2009, 5:52 PM
Also dislike shops infected with grumpy old Caucasian guy syndrome.

tenpercentfirearms
03-11-2009, 6:36 PM
We have Geocaching supplies so you know coming to our shop will be a spectacular experience! :thumbsup:

Gator Monroe
03-11-2009, 6:42 PM
Also dislike shops infected with grumpy old Caucasian guy syndrome.

what about Hoytee toytee know it all young asian guy syndrome ?:confused:

Nodda Duma
03-11-2009, 8:15 PM
I kind of wonder if many of those with grumpy attitudes are those who tried to turn a hobby into a business, but lack the business sense to stay sane.


-Jason

Dr Rockso
03-11-2009, 9:51 PM
We have Geocaching supplies so you know coming to our shop will be a spectacular experience! :thumbsup:
Geocaching supplies equals GPS and ...?
Ammo boxes? Cheap crap to put in the ammo boxes and hide in the woods?

56Chevy
03-11-2009, 10:23 PM
We have Geocaching supplies so you know coming to our shop will be a spectacular experience! :thumbsup:
Is that code for customers who want to see you in your JK Supply shirt?:eek:

freakshow10mm
03-11-2009, 10:35 PM
Some people think it's a status symbol to work in a gun shop. The guy that runs the college gun range here is like that. Freemason, NRA instructor, Glock armorer, AR15 armorer, range chief- all because of titles. He admitted to me that he just joined the Freemasons because he thought it made him superior to everyone else. Wow.

luchador768
03-11-2009, 10:37 PM
My friend called me in a panic on Friday, the "gun expert" at Turners in San Bernadino told him ALL handguns were going to be banned in December. I have noticed this syndrome seems to be really bad at the chain gun shops.

SJgunguy24
03-11-2009, 10:40 PM
Is that code for customers who want to see you in your JK Supply shirt?:eek:
OH GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOO:puke:

I was at a store and Mr Know it all was pushing a keltec su16ca on some guy. I asked the guy what he was looking for and he said an AK. I told him about Saigas and the Mr Know it all told the dude he would go to jail if he listened to me. If I knew what I was talking about I would be on the other side of the counter, and then he rolled his eyes when I asked about KABOOMS with the Keltec. I wanted to snatch his eyes right out of his skull. The guy walked out I told him to go to I.A. inFremont

old-trapper
03-11-2009, 11:12 PM
i had a guy treat me so bad on a transaction ...it was unbelievable. I called the guy talked to his wife or secretary regarding transfer. I was nice and she said ok. i had the gun (tikka) sent there and when I came in to do the transfer he said it was almost $200.00 for the transfer. WHAT! i said no way I am payn that.. He said I didnt have a choice it was in his books and it was his rifle. I told him I had paid for it and to send it to another store I would transfer it there he refused with some BS. He said he was going to mark up every gun that he transferred to the price it would sell it for if he sold it ,to penalise internet sales. Basically i said "the better we shop the more YOU make " he said "basically". I told him that was price fixing, immoral and probably illegal. I paid and reported him, emailed my friends and within two days all my buddies pulled their rifles out of consignment there. Within 45 days the shop was gone. Guys like that deserve to go......

Jesse996r
03-11-2009, 11:15 PM
That attitude is what turned me more into an Online Shopper for all of my firearm needs. It was not worth the 30min. + drive to get bad customer service, or bad advice. Just my 2 cents...

smle-man
03-11-2009, 11:31 PM
There's probably alot of hours of psychoanalysis that could go into it but I prefer the "small mind, small weenie" answer. :smilielol5:

Actually, my experience has been for the most part very good, but I do know to what the OP refers & have heard it. Call it the old boy approach, a hazing to prove you're OK, or just insecurity - I really don't know. Ultimately, doesn't it exist because we as customers allow it?

If you go to a store & find a Colt SAA for $900.00 & the owner is a bit grumpy - well, we got our good deal (he made a sale) so who cares, right? Problem is, that grumpy guy doesn't understand he's probably left money on the table. Maybe you'd have bought some ammo, reloading supplies or a holster if he was friendly. So he's lost $$$ but doesn't know it. But you will go back looking for another good deal, even knowing the owner is a pain. I "gar-on - tee.

Not an excuse, I've also seen customers go into a store & make rude as heck comments about the quality & price of the inventory right in front of the owner - like he's not even there. I suppose in theory it shouldn't bug him & the easy answer is "he shouldn't be in the business then" but I don't think that makes it any easier on the guy.

Maybe the answer is it keeps happening because it really doesn't make any difference to the bottom line.

My most amazing experience was some years ago at a gunshop when I spied an interesting firearm. I asked the counterman if I could take a look at the arm. He told me that there was a $20 charge to look at it. I laughed but he was serious. He said he was tired of showing guns to people who didn't buy them. Needless to say I didn't pay and I didn't buy anything at the shop. I'm afraid there is a correllation between grumpy-itis and gun store ownership that you don't experience at, say, an appliance store.

Dr Rockso
03-11-2009, 11:48 PM
My most amazing experience was some years ago at a gunshop when I spied an interesting firearm. I asked the counterman if I could take a look at the arm. He told me that there was a $20 charge to look at it. I laughed but he was serious. He said he was tired of showing guns to people who didn't buy them. Needless to say I didn't pay and I didn't buy anything at the shop. I'm afraid there is a correllation between grumpy-itis and gun store ownership that you don't experience at, say, an appliance store.
I bought a shotgun at Reed's a while back, before they closed their big location. When I went in to pick it up I noticed that they had a particular 1911 in the case that a friend of mine had been looking for.

I asked the clerk if I could take a look at it, literally having just paid for the shotgun. He asked if I wanted to buy it, and I explained that I probably wouldn't but I wanted to check it out so I could tell my friend how it looked. The dude told me no dice, if I wasn't going to buy he wouldnt let me take a look at it. It's not like I was just some lookie-loo (minutes before I'd handed him a few hundred bucks for the shotgun). I just said 'bye and decided I'd never set foot in there again. With customer service like that it's no wonder they're gone.

My best gun buying experience? Buying a rifle from DD's Ranch and having it shipped to Roger's Relics in Santa Clara. Couldn't have gone smoother, and none of the gunshop attitude. There's a reason people are flocking to the internet to buy guns, and it's not just to save money.

56Chevy
03-12-2009, 12:00 AM
OH GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOO:puke:

I was at a store and Mr Know it all was pushing a keltec su16ca on some guy. I asked the guy what he was looking for and he said an AK. I told him about Saigas and the Mr Know it all told the dude he would go to jail if he listened to me. If I knew what I was talking about I would be on the other side of the counter, and then he rolled his eyes when I asked about KABOOMS with the Keltec. I wanted to snatch his eyes right out of his skull. The guy walked out I told him to go to I.A. inFremont
My experience dealing with some retail people when shopping is that if they're not sure about something they like to make things up...and they stick to it no matter what--not the best way to deal with things in life.

DANGERCLOSE
03-12-2009, 3:08 AM
Semper Fi Mac!:thumbsup:

MrTenX
03-12-2009, 8:16 AM
Well, having been on both sides of a gun counter, I can say that there are plenty of twits on both sides.

akjunkie
03-12-2009, 8:30 AM
Well, having been on both sides of a gun counter, I can say that there are plenty of twits on both sides.

+1 on this.

Greg-Dawg
03-12-2009, 8:38 AM
Well, having been on both sides of a gun counter, I can say that there are plenty of twits on both sides.

+++1.

How many Calgunners are willing to work at a gun shop? Problem is none, so we end up with regular Joes working there.

Hoop
03-12-2009, 8:52 AM
+++1.

How many Calgunners are willing to work at a gun shop? Problem is none, so we end up with regular Joes working there.

I would. Hell, I'm not doing anything else.

Gator Monroe
03-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Semper Fi Mac!:thumbsup:

Ditto ! but Mac were you a Goldwater Republican or a Wallace Democrat back in the day ?:confused:

Turbinator
03-12-2009, 12:43 PM
How many of you guys buy guns, sight unseen? That's how it goes when you buy out of Shotgun News or from an internet reseller who stocks multiples of the same gun. I've bought and received guns that I've never shot before, handled before, and I certainly didn't have a chance to examine the model I was actually receiving. I don't have a problem with this - I just don't bother going to stores asking to see xyz gun, and the attitudes about gunshops charging $20 to see a gun don't really matter to me (even though I don't agree with that gunshop response).

Turby

bear308
03-12-2009, 1:03 PM
+++1.

How many Calgunners are willing to work at a gun shop? Problem is none, so we end up with regular Joes working there.

At least 8 were perfectly willing to work at a range.:chris:

bear308
03-12-2009, 1:06 PM
I'm with the both sides of the counter thing, but if someone thinks what I'm saying is wrong LET ME KNOW. I get gun info from talking to people that know more than me, and research. I had a guy walk in with something I had never seen before just yesterday. I make a mistake correct me, unless it's about range rules.

Fjold
03-12-2009, 1:08 PM
I like it when the counter people start into the BS when they're trying to sell some poor guy a 300 Win mag for hunting deer here in Cali.

Usually I'll just stand there listening and when someone asks "Can I help you?" I'll say (loudly) "No, I just want to see how much BS (unabbreviated) that guy is going to spew before he runs out of things to say".

For some reason this gets me dirty looks and poor service from most counter people. Do you think that they're sensitive?

Stormfeather
03-12-2009, 2:29 PM
Welcome Aboard MacUSMC, great folks here and even us "boots" get a chance to shine! Nice to have an old school salt here amongst us!
Semper Fi

USN CHIEF
03-12-2009, 2:34 PM
For all you people in San Diego, go to Discount Gun Mart and ask for Mike (Polishmike) white guy in his early 20's, very squared away and top notch Customer Service.

Rob454
03-12-2009, 2:52 PM
WHAT?!?!?!

I get lecture to about how young people should blah blah blah. This is usually from some guy that apparently did 2 tours in Vietnam as a MACV-SOG advisor for the Montagnard. Of course I can't help it but ignore the fact that the person spewing this amazing biography is extremely obese, handle a rifle like an emu and doesn't know much in term of military lingo; The amazing men spewing this mountain of knowledge is usually in their mid 40's, which would put them at around 12 years of age by the END of the Vietnam war.

What I really love is the "ex-military" people I meet have ALL been in the special forces branch of whatever they served. Not all of them. Most say they were whatever they were. Mechanics cooks mortarmen etc. there is the ONE guy who is about350LB walks like a wounded walruss andhardly breathe from the fat encasing his neck but hes BTDT.
USUALLY they were either SEALS or GREEN BERETS. Nevermind they cant tell you jack squat about anything and when you press them it of course is a top secret hush hush they cant tell you anything the goverment sealed their records BS. .

socalT
03-12-2009, 2:55 PM
For all you people in San Diego, go to Discount Gun Mart and ask for Mike (Polishmike) white guy in his early 20's, very squared away and top notch Customer Service.

OLL Friendly?

USN CHIEF
03-12-2009, 3:05 PM
OLL Friendly?

Not sure, don't quote me on it, but I do believe that they carry some. Give them a call and ask for Mike (Polishmike).

dwa
03-12-2009, 3:06 PM
What I really love is the "ex-military" people I meet have ALL been in the special forces branch of whatever they served. Not all of them. Most say they were whatever they were. Mechanics cooks mortarmen etc. there is the ONE guy who is about350LB walks like a wounded walruss andhardly breathe from the fat encasing his neck but hes BTDT.
USUALLY they were either SEALS or GREEN BERETS. Nevermind they cant tell you jack squat about anything and when you press them it of course is a top secret hush hush they cant tell you anything the goverment sealed their records BS. .

a guy my gf works with is supposedly a former force recon marine. he says he did 3 years and now looks like he couldn't jog a half mile.

Saigon1965
03-12-2009, 3:08 PM
Can we get a BBM discount?

Not sure, don't quote me on it, but I do believe that they carry some. Give them a call and ask for Mike (Polishmike).

luchador768
03-12-2009, 3:49 PM
Not sure, don't quote me on it, but I do believe that they carry some. Give them a call and ask for Mike (Polishmike).


They have a few Territorial Armorers OLL and an American Guns .308 OLL. They are also the home of the $800 Saiga.:confused:

PatriotnMore
03-12-2009, 3:58 PM
a guy my gf works with is supposedly a former force recon marine. he says he did 3 years and now looks like he couldn't jog a half mile.

Don't judge book by the cover, see the forth guy down,http://www.trillacorpe.com/about/meet-the-team.php he's a real deal BTDT, wrote the book "Warrior Soul"

geeknow
03-12-2009, 4:05 PM
He admitted to me that he just joined the Freemasons because he thought it made him superior to everyone else. Wow.

He wont last with that attitude

Saigon1965
03-12-2009, 4:19 PM
I agree - You stop the daily regimen and it's all downhill - The knowledge and experience is stuck is with you forever -

Don't judge book by the cover, see the forth guy down,http://www.trillacorpe.com/about/meet-the-team.php he's a real deal BTDT, wrote the book "Warrior Soul"

dfletcher
03-12-2009, 4:21 PM
What I really love is the "ex-military" people I meet have ALL been in the special forces branch of whatever they served. Not all of them. Most say they were whatever they were. Mechanics cooks mortarmen etc. there is the ONE guy who is about350LB walks like a wounded walruss andhardly breathe from the fat encasing his neck but hes BTDT.
USUALLY they were either SEALS or GREEN BERETS. Nevermind they cant tell you jack squat about anything and when you press them it of course is a top secret hush hush they cant tell you anything the goverment sealed their records BS. .

I worked in Air Force (LE) supply. I had to tell a group of freezing Marines they couldn't have mukluks during the winter '83 Team Spirit exercises at Osan AFB, so I know what it's like to cheat death - I'd have felt safer facing the North Koreans. :eek:

PatriotnMore
03-12-2009, 4:22 PM
I agree - You stop the daily regimen and it's all downhill - The knowledge and experience is stuck is with you forever -

Can't stay a PT stud your whole life, and age has its way with you, regardless of how physically hard you once were.

Saigon1965
03-12-2009, 4:27 PM
Absolutely - Some of these guys have lived life on the hard side -

Can't stay a PT stud your whole life, and age has its way with you, regardless of how physically hard you once were.

PatriotnMore
03-12-2009, 4:29 PM
Absolutely - Some of these guys have lived life on the hard side -

Exactly, they have left body parts all over the world, and age and recovery time makes the body soft. Some of these older cats simply cannot work out due to pain and injuries.

BONECUTTER
03-12-2009, 4:41 PM
How many Calgunners are willing to work at a gun shop? Problem is none, so we end up with regular Joes working there.

A bunch of us Calgunners work in gun shops.....its ussually the ones that don't spread FUD. How do you think these gunshops started selling OLL's?

There have been stores that would do transfers thanks to people like Hector at CWS. But many of the gun stores today stock this stuff because the owners/employees are calgunners and understand the laws.

Darklyte27
03-12-2009, 4:41 PM
I agree, HOORAH!

PS, thanks for your service.

stormy_clothing
03-12-2009, 5:10 PM
welcome to the era of the internet ninja generation. a generation of people that have never seen combat and yammer on about the need for a primary weapon, backup-weapon and rifle at all times. and the need to pack a bug out bag without seemingly any thought to investing in some basic survival related training or possessing a tradable currency or skill in case the dollar becomes just paper which is one reason or effect of why they would need that stuff in the first place.

But I dont think it's stores in general - just some people with guns. Guns are macho stuff anyway right ? lol. the funniest thing is my uncle is probably the most badass person I actually know - he pulled a robber through the driver through window under gun point working at jack in the box and beat the guys ***. And he's probably the last person you might think was rated like 6th in arizona for combat shooting at one time and the last person you might think would be a ranger or hell even own a gun he's so nice.

I prefer to buy from the interweb everything as there are some good old boys in the heartland always giving great deals and good customers service but there are some great places still in cal so don't let it worry you.

cheaper than dirt and dds ranch and bk arms and midwest hunters are good places.

B Strong
03-12-2009, 6:00 PM
I an 74 years old, ex-Marine, retired police officer and a gun lover. I still can't understand the hot-dog, macho, superior, arrogant attitude I encounter in many gun shops. Some employees, not all, tend to present an image that turns off potential customers, especially those new to the gun world. Why can they not learn to project a positive image about the firearms industry?

Most of us old-timers let the BS ride, make our purchase and leave. Recently, I have started responding to it politely. I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.

What, you don't enjoy being talked down to by some soft, fat gunstore commando that has less time on the planet than you do on the firing line?

Me too.

savageevo
03-12-2009, 9:10 PM
Since you are in socal, May I suggest you drive a little north to a great gunshop name Bright spot pawn. You will never find a nicer well informed ffl in socal. Ask for Chris, He will treat you like if you were his father.:)

rkt88edmo
03-12-2009, 9:21 PM
Wes just wants your GPS identifier so he can submit you on his list because he is working as a NWO UN plant. When you're on the truck on your way to camp ask yourself "was that free cachebug worth it?"

Wild Bill
03-12-2009, 10:01 PM
Exactly, they have left body parts all over the world, and age and recovery time makes the body soft. Some of these older cats simply cannot work out due to pain and injuries.

+1 to what PatriotnMore wrote. Some of us are Disabled Vets!:D


semper fi

duck814
03-12-2009, 10:29 PM
A few years ago, when i first turned 21, I was really excited to buy my first handgun. I received good service and was on my way with my XD-9. Since then, I've popped in and out of gun shops to see if anything would catch my eye, possibly an impulse purchase; however, I'd say 95% of the time i've received below average to poor customer service. Most times, not even acknowledging my presence. It almost feels intimidating to come into some gun shops. The state of gun buying is almost shocking now.

luchador768
03-12-2009, 10:39 PM
welcome to the era of the internet ninja generation. a generation of people that have never seen combat and yammer on about the need for a primary weapon, backup-weapon and rifle at all times. and the need to pack a bug out bag without seemingly any thought to investing in some basic survival related training or possessing a tradable currency or skill in case the dollar becomes just paper which is one reason or effect of why they would need that stuff in the first place.

But I dont think it's stores in general - just some people with guns. Guns are macho stuff anyway right ? lol. the funniest thing is my uncle is probably the most badass person I actually know - he pulled a robber through the driver through window under gun point working at jack in the box and beat the guys ***. And he's probably the last person you might think was rated like 6th in arizona for combat shooting at one time and the last person you might think would be a ranger or hell even own a gun he's so nice.

I prefer to buy from the interweb everything as there are some good old boys in the heartland always giving great deals and good customers service but there are some great places still in cal so don't let it worry you.

cheaper than dirt and dds ranch and bk arms and midwest hunters are good places.


I have had the pleasure of meeting three Special Forces members and they are salt-of-the-earth types, the nicest people you will ever meet.

future9er24
03-12-2009, 10:45 PM
I've noticed alot of the same in my gun adventures too. very few gun stores are welcoming at all whenever i go with my friends. It always seems like all they can think is "what are these dumb kids doing in my store"

so far the nicest place I've been too is Sporstmen Supply in the San Jose area

dwa
03-13-2009, 1:21 AM
Don't judge book by the cover, see the forth guy down,http://www.trillacorpe.com/about/meet-the-team.php he's a real deal BTDT, wrote the book "Warrior Soul"

i thought it odd that someone would do only 3 years and have been in recon. in the army you cant get rip in your contract with a 3 year commitment. also he seemed to dance around questions.

ctbassman
03-13-2009, 2:30 AM
...

tortoisethunder
03-13-2009, 3:16 AM
I an 74 years old, ex-Marine, retired police officer and a gun lover. I still can't understand the hot-dog, macho, superior, arrogant attitude I encounter in many gun shops. Some employees, not all, tend to present an image that turns off potential customers, especially those new to the gun world. Why can they not learn to project a positive image about the firearms industry?

Most of us old-timers let the BS ride, make our purchase and leave. Recently, I have started responding to it politely. I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.

It amazes me the attitudes in some gun stores. I would love to be in a store where you say this to Mr Macho!

By the way thank you for your service!

tenpercentfirearms
03-13-2009, 5:54 AM
I like it when the counter people start into the BS when they're trying to sell some poor guy a 300 Win mag for hunting deer here in Cali.

Usually I'll just stand there listening and when someone asks "Can I help you?" I'll say (loudly) "No, I just want to see how much BS (unabbreviated) that guy is going to spew before he runs out of things to say".

For some reason this gets me dirty looks and poor service from most counter people. Do you think that they're sensitive?

I would have had that sale too if you hadn't been such a jerk and ruined my salesman ship game! I had him convinced I killed a dear at 1319 yards with a 300 Win Mag using AR15 iron sights. He was going to buy the gun and some AR15 irons for it and you screwed it up.

We need to have a "Gunshp Sales Blocker" thread.

Stormfeather
03-13-2009, 7:44 AM
a guy my gf works with is supposedly a former force recon marine. he says he did 3 years and now looks like he couldn't jog a half mile.

Don't judge book by the cover, see the fourth guy down,http://www.trillacorpe.com/about/meet-the-team.php he's a real deal BTDT, wrote the book "Warrior Soul"

i thought it odd that someone would do only 3 years and have been in recon. in the army you cant get rip in your contract with a 3 year commitment. also he seemed to dance around questions.
While I agree with the adage of never judge a book by its cover, I also have to say, know BS when you see/hear it. Next time, heres some interesting facts for you so you know exactly what does on with a real FoReconBn guy.


Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY, makes Force Recon on a original 3 year enlistment. Lets break it down in a timeline for those so they know why.

Lets say Johnny joins the Marines, and goes to boot Camp on January 1st.

January 1st -January 8th -14th = Receiving Barracks = apprx 2 weeks
January 14th - April 25th = Boot Camp = apprx 13 weeks
April 25th -May 8th = Boot Camp Leave = 2 weeks
May 9th - May 15th = Recieving Barracks for School Of Infantry = 1 week
May 15th - July 15th = School Of Infantry = approx 8 weeks
July 16th - Aug 15 = MCT = 4 weeks

Total time in service at this point is 31 weeks. . . .and he hasnt even made it to the Fleet yet! (Fleet = FMF, Fleet Marine Force, aka, your regular job, the normal day to day marine corps, as far as any normal Marine is concerned, hes still in school and hasnt really became a Marine yet)

Now, for the sake of arguing, lets say that Recon Bn has a tryout at MCT/SOI, and lil johnny takes the indoc and passes with flying colors, so much so, that they offer him a slot right then and there, on the spot. Now, not only does he have to go to Recon School, he has to put his time in there before he will even be considered for FoRecon. Minimum for his time in ReconBn is going to be 6 months before he can be considered for FoRecon,
so. . . .

* BRC = 9 weeks
* TOS = 24 weeks (TOS= Time On Station)
* Annual Leave = still has 2 weeks left = 2 weeks.

Total Time in the military at this point. . . 66 weeks. . . or, 1 year, 3 months, 2 weeks. Time left on contract 1 year, 8 months, 2 weeks. So now we have served our 6 months in Recon Bn, So say a lucky slot opens in FoReconBn, and he is offered a slot, Now he has to go thru all the next level schools. It is called the Accession Pipeline. It is as follows. . . . . .

* Basic Reconnaissance Course = 9 weeks
* SERE School (Level "C") = 6 weeks
* SERE School (Level "C") PDAHS course. = 1 week
* USMC Combatant Diver Course = 8 weeks
* Basic Airborne Course = 3 weeks
* Special Operations Training Group (SOTG) = Heres where it gets fun. . . .

* Scout Swimmer Course —
* Applied Explosives Course —
* Dynamic Entry Course —
* Urban Reconnaissance & Surveillance —
* Urban Sniper Course—
* Assault Climbers Course —
* Basic/Advanced Coxswain Skills Course —
* Dynamic Assault Course —
* Security Element Training Course—
* Boat Raid Course —
* Helicopter Rope Suspension Training (HRST) Masters Course—
* Long Range (Over-the-Horizon) Maritime Navigation Course—
* Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and/or Personnel (TRAP) Course—
* Non-Lethal Weapons Course —

The total elapsed time for all the above listed schools is 19 months, that is if they are all completed in consecutive order, and no breaks between schools at all.

And last but not least. . . then you have one of my personal favorites. . .

* Military Free Fall School .

Once you complete the above listed schools, you are then, and only then, given a 8654 MOS Designator.

At no time would he be allowed to go thru all this with a 3 year contract, mainly because, the training is over 3 years in length. And what unit would want to spend all this time, money, effort, sending someone to all these schools if all they are going to do is get out afterwards? People who make FoReconBn are usually asked beforehand to re-up for 4-6 years right off the bat, before they even get accepted. There are instances where they will take you, but you have to re-up as soon as you get to the unit. And as for getting accepted to it, you usually have to have some time in the FMF beforehand as well. I hope this helps dispell some of the "Force Recon Marine Gunshop Employee myths! If you find such a guy, just ask him what the "Accession Pipeline", if he cant answer that, then hes full of Bovine Scatology.

PatriotnMore
03-13-2009, 7:44 AM
i thought it odd that someone would do only 3 years and have been in recon. in the army you cant get rip in your contract with a 3 year commitment. also he seemed to dance around questions.

Yeah, that smells 3 shades of funky. I know there are guys claiming Navy SEAL all over the place, and they can actually be vetted fairly easy, as there is an actual SEAL database. Most other services, its who you know, and who knows you.
My only point is/was, just because a guy is overweight, does not dis-qualify him as a BTDT cat, there may be health related issues as to why they are no longer, lean, and hard.

PatriotnMore
03-13-2009, 7:46 AM
^ Good post StormFeather, Stay safe Brother.

Stormfeather
03-13-2009, 7:53 AM
Thank you, sometimes its nice to separate the wheat from the chaff.

And for those that want to know, I was a 8654, AmphibReconMarine. I hate jumping out of planes. If you have a total equipment failure at 10,000 feet, you are at the mercy of gravity, If I have a equipment failure in the ocean. . .I swim. . .pretty simple huh? Gravity isnt as big of a factor!:P

PatriotnMore
03-13-2009, 7:59 AM
Thank you, sometimes its nice to separate the wheat from the chaff.

And for those that want to know, I was a 8654, AmphibReconMarine. I hate jumping out of planes. If you have a total equipment failure at 10,000 feet, you are at the mercy of gravity, If I have a equipment failure in the ocean. . .I swim. . .pretty simple huh? Gravity isnt as big of a factor!:P

Funny, if you've read Warrior Soul, it was a near death jump, which was a major factor, influencing him to say, maybe I've pushed my luck enough, and its time to get out.

fourtyounce48
09-24-2009, 7:00 PM
I an 74 years old, ex-Marine, retired police officer and a gun lover. I still can't understand the hot-dog, macho, superior, arrogant attitude I encounter in many gun shops. Some employees, not all, tend to present an image that turns off potential customers, especially those new to the gun world. Why can they not learn to project a positive image about the firearms industry?

Most of us old-timers let the BS ride, make our purchase and leave. Recently, I have started responding to it politely. I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.


great response

CSACANNONEER
09-24-2009, 7:11 PM
+++1.

How many Calgunners are willing to work at a gun shop? Problem is none, so we end up with regular Joes working there.

Dude, I did. When the shop closed, we had four PT employees who all had jobs which paid well over $50K a year with at least one of us (not me) making enough to have a +7K monthly mortgage and drive a new $80K car every year. We just liked to hang out there, making $7-$8 an hour and have the run of the shop and range. We all saw it more as a hobby than a job.

Gator Monroe
09-24-2009, 7:19 PM
Dude, I did. When the shop closed, we had four PT employees who all had jobs which paid well over $50K a year with at least one of us (not me) making enough to have a +7K monthly mortgage and drive a new $80K car every year. We just liked to hang out there, making $7-$8 an hour and have the run of the shop and range. We all saw it more as a hobby than a job.

Where is Deadeye ? (Your post seemed indicative of knowledge of his whereabouts)

RandyD
09-24-2009, 8:05 PM
Thank you, sometimes its nice to separate the wheat from the chaff.

And for those that want to know, I was a 8654, AmphibReconMarine. I hate jumping out of planes. If you have a total equipment failure at 10,000 feet, you are at the mercy of gravity, If I have a equipment failure in the ocean. . .I swim. . .pretty simple huh? Gravity isnt as big of a factor!:P

Stormfeather,
I noted the SCUBA badge on your posts. I am also a former Recon Marine. What Battalions were you with and when? I was in 1st Recon 77-79 and 81-83 and 3rd recon 83-84.

RandyD
09-24-2009, 8:12 PM
a guy my gf works with is supposedly a former force recon marine. he says he did 3 years and now looks like he couldn't jog a half mile.

dwa, pm me the name, unit and time frame this guy claims to be in Force Recon. I belong to the Force Recon Association, and the guys on our net, enjoy exposing posers. These guys live to catch posers. I'll get back to you with the results.

Gator Monroe
09-24-2009, 8:21 PM
dwa, pm me the name, unit and time frame this guy claims to be in Force Recon. I belong to the Force Recon Association, and the guys on our net, enjoy exposing posers. These guys live to catch posers. I'll get back to you with the results.

some Hall of fame former NFL linebackers are now 175 lbs. (or less) and what hair they have left is grey.

RandyD
09-24-2009, 11:08 PM
some Hall of fame former NFL linebackers are now 175 lbs. (or less) and what hair they have left is grey.

I am not sure how your comment relates to my post since you quoted my post???

The weight and physical condition of the guy is irrelevant to me. Some of us have gained weight and that does not change the fact that we are what we are. What is relevant is the info I requested. Our association has a complete list of all former Recon Marines.

steelrain82
09-24-2009, 11:26 PM
oh well i guess im not on that list than.


edit: back to the op i get that attitude every time i go to the local shop where i live. i really hate that place and the prices for everything are extremely overpriced. i still go just to oggle the guns. and every time i ask to see a pistol or something they they give me the look like i dont know how to handle it. ive never had a good experience there. the last time i went, i really needed cash, so i went to see what i could get for my enfield and a bn never fired .22 revolover. <---(pre-calguns) So i take it in then i realize the reveolver still has ammo in it. so i tell the guy before he takes the gun out of the case. he totally flips out and tells me how incompetent i am for not unloading it and how he couldve drawn on me for threatening his life. wtf. but than the manager comes out to see whats going on so i let him know. i have seen the guy there ever since. but the manager/owner said he'd give me $70 bucks for both. so obviously i didnt sell and im glad i didnt. after that i found uncle pauls which is a million times better.

RandyD
09-25-2009, 9:01 AM
Getting back to the original intent of this thread, since I was a boy, I used to enjoy going to stores that had firearms. Back then Sears and Mongomery Wards and many five and dime stores sold firearms. Anyway, my interest has decreased because of some of the attitudes that I have encountered. In the 80's I used to regularly attend the Great Western Gun Show in Pomoma, and I remember seeing a lot of Nazi crap. It wasn't the souveniers that bothered me but there were people there who advocated the Nazi ideology which I found offensive. Then many of the gun shows became inundated with items completely unrelated to firearms, like collectable dishes ect. Many gun shows ended up appearing like flea markets. In gun stores, I noted that many employees and customers had very disgruntled attitudes about life, and I particularly did not like listening to the numerous conversations about how someone would kill anyone who (fill in the blank). At the time, I was in the Marine Corps and could hardly be considered a peacenik, but I got tired of the rants. Another observation I have made over my lifetime, in the past firearms used to be more related to sporting related. In present day, the sporting purpose of firearms is not so apparent. Currently the emphasis is more on military, tactical, sniper type firearms, and I think this is what the antigun crowds exploit. As a result, I just naturally faded away from these venues.

HowardW56
09-25-2009, 9:22 AM
I an 74 years old, ex-Marine, retired police officer and a gun lover. I still can't understand the hot-dog, macho, superior, arrogant attitude I encounter in many gun shops. Some employees, not all, tend to present an image that turns off potential customers, especially those new to the gun world. Why can they not learn to project a positive image about the firearms industry?

Most of us old-timers let the BS ride, make our purchase and leave. Recently, I have started responding to it politely. I simply ask: "Have you ever shot anyone?" They always say, "No". I tell them it might be wise to ease up on the attitude because many of us customers have had that experience several times and know a little about firearms. The silence is really rather rewarding.


I think almost every gunshop employee needs a dose of that at one time or another....

Gator Monroe
09-25-2009, 9:44 AM
I am not sure how your comment relates to my post since you quoted my post???

The weight and physical condition of the guy is irrelevant to me. Some of us have gained weight and that does not change the fact that we are what we are. What is relevant is the info I requested. Our association has a complete list of all former Recon Marines.

There are former on the association list Recon Marines who are salt & pepper ponytail liberal out of shape skinny obama voters (without voter remorse) . It takes all kinds and the ones you would doubt(being on the list) the most are sometimes the ones with the most gravitas.

M1A Rifleman
09-25-2009, 10:17 AM
Good work and keep it up. I wish more with "experience" would speak up. In all sports and hobbys there will be know-it-alls, but gun shops and shows seem to attract them like flys to road kill.

liquidmx
09-25-2009, 10:19 AM
I can see both sides to be honest.

I have never worked at a gun shop but I can imagine that they get A LOT of window shoppers looking to "hold their first gun" or otherwise simply waste the salesman's time. I go to the local gun shops maybe once a month (since I cannot afford to go more often), and Continually see newbs in there trying to handle the merchandise. Even then I see probably around a 10-25% sales rate just from that small window of time I am there. I could see salesmen getting annoyed at this.

On the flip side I think sales could happen more regularly if they were more friendly and talkative. Maybe put in place and communicate a layaway plan? Basically anything to get someone's foot in the door of shooting a firearm. I think this is really where gun shop/ranges hold a LOT of opportunity. Example: Customer comes in and gets their HSC card and buys a gun. (Also - if they dont buy a gun the salesman should AT LEAST get them to rent one and shoot a handgun for the first time.) It wouldn't cost much to throw in one box of ammo and send a RO or shooter out there on the line with them to put the rounds through the gun for the first time. A LOT of first time shooters would probably rejoice at the idea of having someone looking over their shoulder the first time to confirm that they are being safe and doing things right.

The whole Napoleon complex seems to be everywhere though...from the Range to the shops. The best part is generally in every sport where a Napoleon complex is present...the athlete (or shooter in this scenario) isnt very good...almost 100% of the time...its the quiet guys who can handle their business. That's just a life lesson everyone gets to learn.

Funny story actually. I was up a few weeks ago shooting my first bolt action precision rifle at Sunnyvale. Upon signing in the RO asked what caliber I was shooting. I informed him that it was a 308 and needed to be sighted in. He suggested I start at 25yrds. I obliged. I took three shots, made the adjustments and was ready for 50. Took six shots (two 3 shot groups) and was ready for 100. The RO helped me with where I should be (elevation wise) based on the ammo I was shooting and the range I wanted to be zero-ed at...extremely helpful for a newb like me. I proceed to engage him about shooting styles, where my support hand should be for bench shooting, different techniques, tips, tricks, etc...basically looking for any more applicable information which could help my shooting. I got this look from some guys on the line "who's this guy that needs help from the RO and what a loser". Like it was a bad thing to ask for advice or criticism from someone with more experience...? I go to leave and one of the guys giving me the look says "hey nice shooting!" I replied with a simple "thanks". He proceeds to inform me about his new scope needing to be adjusted...blah blah blah. The whole time I was thinking..."if you swallowed your pride and asked for some help you might have some more fun".

Nikola
09-25-2009, 10:45 AM
I'm tired of gun store employees trying to impose their philosophy of what guns are worth buying on me. I was in a store contemplating buying a Tantal, and three separate people swaggered up to inform me that

1. I should buy an AR instead (everyone knows you can't hit a person beyond ten paces with an AK):rolleyes:
2. 5.45x39mm is a "rare" caliber (riiiiight)
3. The Tantal itself isn't "practical" (for what? combat?)

What's wrong with wanting to by a relatively inexpensive rifle because I think it's cool? The attitude and the snobbishness turned me off completely, and I ended up buying one at a gun show instead.

dansgold
09-25-2009, 11:22 AM
Some people lose sight of who they are and why they are there. I completely respect anyone with genuine LE or military experience, and value their contribution. Lord knows many of us lay claim to our manhood very cheaply in comparison.

Even so, when you are behind the counter, there is a different relationship and a different chain-of-command. You're a salesperson, and I am a customer. If you can't man up to respect the dictates of that mission, don't re-up for even one more day, as you are a detriment to your outfit and a danger to your "squad".

CSACANNONEER
09-25-2009, 12:20 PM
Where is Deadeye ? (Your post seemed indicative of knowledge of his whereabouts)

I think he worked at a shop in No Cal. In any event, I don't think I've ever met him. Sorry.

Gator Monroe
09-25-2009, 2:59 PM
I think he worked at a shop in No Cal. In any event, I don't think I've ever met him. Sorry.

Bullseye ? He dropped of the Face of our world (Banhammer victim or World traveler with no access to a Web Cafe ?):confused:

Super Spy
09-25-2009, 3:26 PM
This thread is quite amusing. I agree that many gun shops I've been to have far more attitude than is justified. Living in Eastern Washington as a kid every time we went to town my favorite spot to visit was the local sporting goods store. They were always friendly and helpful and happy to let a broke twelve year ols handle any gun or bow in the shop. Like every other kid in that town I already knew how to shoot.......but wouldn't have the disposable income to buy my own guns for years. Never did I get unsolicited advice either....

RandyD
09-25-2009, 3:43 PM
This thread is quite amusing. I agree that many gun shops I've been to have far more attitude than is justified. Living in Eastern Washington as a kid every time we went to town my favorite spot to visit was the local sporting goods store. They were always friendly and helpful and happy to let a broke twelve year ols handle any gun or bow in the shop. Like every other kid in that town I already knew how to shoot.......but wouldn't have the disposable income to buy my own guns for years. Never did I get unsolicited advice either....

Where are you from in Eastern Washington? I was born in Pasco.

Capt. Speirs
09-25-2009, 3:53 PM
I am right with everybody else. I am still steaming on the arrogance and attitude I received when I purchased my Remington 700 Varmint at Fowler's. They are way too pricey for my taste but they were the only one around that had this model. The salesman had a "my !?#* don't stink" attitude and I just got one word answers throughout my buyout process. I am still debating on complaining to the owner or manager and tell him I will never buy a gun in there if that same salesman is employed with them. Do any of you know the managers name or owner of Fowler's? It pisses me off that I just gave them $800 to receive that kind of attitude!

Show 'em how you feel with your dollar, don't go back!

ALCO HK
09-25-2009, 4:03 PM
^+1