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View Full Version : Germany: Teen gunman kills 15 + himself at former school.


Mr. Magoo
03-11-2009, 10:28 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_school_attack

WINNENDEN, Germany A 17-year-old gunman dressed in black opened fire at his former high school in southwestern Germany on Wednesday then fled in a hijacked car, killing at least 15 people before police shot him to death, state officials said.

The gunman entered the school in Winnenden and opened fire, shooting at random, police said. He killed nine students, three teachers and a passer-by outside the building, officials said.

"He went into the school with a weapon and carried out a bloodbath," said regional police chief Erwin Hetger. "I've never seen anything like this in my life."

Triggering a land and air manhunt, the gunman hijacked a car, freed the driver and drove about 25 miles (40 kilometers) before police found him. When confronted, he killed two bystanders in a shootout with police before he was slain, Baden Wuerttemburg governor Guenther Oettinger said. Two officers were seriously injured, but there was no immediate information on other casualties.

Four hours after the shootings began, police announced the teenager's death.

Police have identified the gunman only as Tim K, who graduated last year from the school of about 1,000 students.

In their hunt for him, police searched his parents' home in a nearby town. The suspect's father, who is a member of a local gun club, had 16 firearms and one was missing, police said.

Authorities have said the weapon was not a rifle, but have otherwise only called it a "high caliber" firearm.

Casual Observer
03-11-2009, 10:54 AM
As tragic as it sounds, it's no different than what happens here.

He stole a gun and went to a place where he knows people are defenseless (a school).

Good on the police too for putting him down. Even mass murderers in Germany can only get 20 years. If he was caught and convicted, he'd be out before he was 40.

Mr. Magoo
03-11-2009, 10:56 AM
Even mass murderers in Germany can only get 20 years. If he was caught and convicted, he'd be out before he was 40.

In that case I am glad they put him down as well. That is ridiculous.

Seesm
03-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Kids are rough on kids teasing and trying to fit in... It is sad...

I am surprised more sh*t like this does not happen...It sucks but what sucks worse is some dumb a*s is going to say guns are bad... The killer kid is the bad one and he could have ran in with empty pocket protector "running with lead pencils" and killed as many if he was fast but he got ahold of PROBABLY some law abiding citizens gun(s) ...sucks in alot of ways.... Would we even hear about it if he killed 15 people with a pack of lead pencils? :)

Jbox
03-11-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't think it matters how they die when 15 people are killed its going to make the news.

I read a report this morning stating the parents had something like 15 guns but the LEO were not sure if that is where he acquired them from. I'm not sure if that's the truth but just what I have read so far.

On another note with all this talk about the media shoving every gun related death down our throats to further some agenda it got me thinking about how many gun deaths there are that we never even hear about. So with a little looking I found this

"http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/homicidereport/2009/03/athens-man-21-s.html".

Its a blog on LA Times of all the murders committed in LA County and there are a ton of gun deaths that go unreported in the mainstream news. Meaning there is no news about it on TV and no articles written about it just this little blog with a paragraph about each murder. Anyways just something to think about.

Sniper3142
03-11-2009, 5:10 PM
Doesn't Germany have some very strict gun laws?

Didn't seem to do them much good which is no big suprise. :(

savs2k
03-11-2009, 8:08 PM
man thats horrible. What ever happened to the days when you have a problem with someone at school, you go to the park behind the school and just duke it out with your fist?

B.D.Dubloon
03-11-2009, 8:55 PM
As tragic as it sounds, it's no different than what happens here.

He stole a gun and went to a place where he knows people are defenseless (a school).

Good on the police too for putting him down. Even mass murderers in Germany can only get 20 years. If he was caught and convicted, he'd be out before he was 40.

Really? They don't have a life in prison.

Doesn't Germany have some very strict gun laws?

Didn't seem to do them much good which is no big suprise. :(

Actually, I think that Germany's murder rate is something like a quarter of ours, which is probably at least in some small measure due to their strict gun laws. I'd rather have freedom than less murders but it seems to work well for the Huns.

dfletcher
03-11-2009, 9:21 PM
I just listened to a BBC television report. Their conclusion is it's in part our fault because the Europeans teenbrats are following our lead - and of course "anyone can own a gun" in the USA according to one fellow so that it happens is inevitable. It's our "latest export" even though Europe has some "strict" gun laws - I guess banning guns is a bit strict, right?

Evidently, the 2012 Olympics are being held in London? According to the report, English shooters have to practice in Switzerland and the British government will grant "special dispensation" to 2012 Olympic shooters during their participation only.

Teletiger7
03-11-2009, 9:24 PM
According to the report, English shooters have to practice in Switzerland and the British government will grant "special dispensation" to 2012 Olympic shooters during their participation only.


That's ridiculous and retarded:eek: I sure hope we never get to that point in the USA.

viras
03-12-2009, 12:46 PM
Guys,

It was a 9mm Beretta according to Yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090312/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_school_attack

The transcript released by authorities gave the first indication of what might have driven Kretschmer, described by his peers as withdrawn and shy, to carry out a bloodbath on Wednesday before turning a 9 mm Beretta pistol on himself after a shootout with police.

So apparently 9mm is considered a High Caliber these days. :rolleyes:

Turbinator
03-12-2009, 12:49 PM
I think that Germany's murder rate is something like a quarter of ours, which is probably at least in some small measure due to their strict gun laws. I'd rather have freedom than less murders but it seems to work well for the Huns.

I'm not sure I would be so quick to say the gun laws are the reason for reduced murder rates. I would guess that the relatively homogenous culture and ethnicity helps to keep things calm for the most part.

Turby

tombinghamthegreat
03-12-2009, 12:53 PM
So apparently 9mm is considered a High Caliber these days. :rolleyes:

I noticed that to. I don't see how a 9mm could be considered to be in the same category as a 30-06 or a .223.

mif_slim
03-12-2009, 1:08 PM
Another News Bias crap from our local channel.

They reported that the kid got his gun from his dad, which his dad shoots competition. So, their implying that competition shooters are the dangerious people now and they were advising americans the dangers of having ANY firearm in our home. That had to come right after they talked about Gun sales and saying that crime will go up because of it.

pullnshoot25
03-12-2009, 6:02 PM
I noticed that to. I don't see how a 9mm could be considered to be in the same category as a 30-06 or a .223.

Who knows. Spinsters.

KUJO
03-12-2009, 7:16 PM
A lecture was just hosted by RCPI-CA.ORG about this very subject. The speaker was Lt. Col Dave Grossman. He is a subject matter expert on this topic. It was very LEO heavy, but a few civilians did show up. It was a great lecture. He predicts this to happen many more times, and the shootings to be more violent.

Echidin
03-12-2009, 7:42 PM
Sounds like he was taken out by police and did not kill himself, as the thread title suggests.

viras
03-12-2009, 8:15 PM
Sounds like he was taken out by police and did not kill himself, as the thread title suggests.

Where's it say that?

All the AP Articles say:

The transcript released by authorities gave the first indication of what might have driven Kretschmer, described by his peers as withdrawn and shy, to carry out a bloodbath on Wednesday before turning a 9 mm Beretta pistol on himself after a shootout with police.

Dr Rockso
03-12-2009, 8:18 PM
A lecture was just hosted by RCPI-CA.ORG about this very subject. The speaker was Lt. Col Dave Grossman. He is a subject matter expert on this topic. It was very LEO heavy, but a few civilians did show up. It was a great lecture. He predicts this to happen many more times, and the shootings to be more violent.
Any particular reason why this would become more common?

KUJO
03-12-2009, 8:37 PM
His argument is almost all directed around media violence, and want for higher "score" Like it is a video game. There is a little more to it. If you are interested you can read his books, ON KILLING and ON COMBAT, and from another author STOP TEACHING OUR KIDS TO KILL (i think that the title)

Doheny
03-16-2009, 3:36 PM
If you belong to a pubic safety agency and want to attend a briefing of the shooting:

Briefing on the March 11, School Shooting in Winnenden, Germany that
left 16 people dead and nine injured (including two police officers)
WHEN: Thursday, March 19, 2009 + from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.
WHERE: Marmalade Caf, 2014 Park Place, El Segundo, CA 90245 Southern side of the new Plaza El Segundo Shopping Center (located
near the intersection of Sepulveda and Rosecrans, easily accessible
using the 405 or 105)

Dear Friends and Colleagues in CA,
As you may know, on March 11, 2009, a seventeen-year-old teenager, started a shooting rampage at the Albertville Secondary School (Realschule) in Winnenden, a city (pop. 28,000) in the southwestern
part of Germany.

Using a 9mm Beretta handgun he killed 12 people (9 students and 3 teachers) inside the school and 4 others during his escape to the nearby city of Wendlingen.
Nine other people, including two police officers were wounded. The perpetrator fired more than 60 shots at the school and 44 more during his escape.

What makes the attack rather unusual is the fact that the teenage shooter managed to escape after confronting police in a gun-battle inside the school and was subsequently able to cause additional carnage that left additionally three people dead and two police officers wounded in another jurisdiction.

Due to my previous work in Germany I have some insights to share about the chain of events, the tactics, and the challenges during the incident.

I invite your department to an Incident-Briefing

Thursday, March 19, 2009 ? 11:00 a.m. ? 1:00 p.m.
at the Marmalade Caf, 2014 Park Place, El Segundo, CA 90245 (tel
310-648-7200) - part of the new Plaza El Segundo Shopping Center (located near the intersection of Sepulveda and Rosecrans, easily accessible using the 405 or 105) with ample and free parking (a rare
commodity on LA?s Westside)

Seating is limited to a max of 25 and restricted to government and recognized emergency service representatives and off-limits to the
public.

The briefing is given free of charge, attendees have to pay for their
beverages/lunch.Since space is really limited, please register by sending an email to gjk@edmus.info or through linkedin.com at your earliest convenience.
Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Best regards,
Gunnar J Kuepper
President Region 9 (AZ, CA, HI, NV, Pacific Trust Territories) International Association of Emergency Managers (IAEM)
c/o Emergency & Disaster Management, Inc.
5959 West Century Boulevard, 5th floor
Los Angeles, CA 90045
Cell ++1 310-686-1390
Fax ++1 310-649-1186
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gunnarkuepper (http://www.linkedin.com/in/gunnarkuepper)
Email gjk@edmus.info