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tortoisethunder
03-11-2009, 12:58 AM
My city and suburban friends, do you carry a concealed handgun around the home? This would be in the home, and backyard? Can you be in your front yard, legally?

If so what do you carry? This would be for non CCW persons?

USN CHIEF
03-11-2009, 1:02 AM
Nope. I just have guns laying all over the house when I am home. They are all in Condition 1. The laws? It is my house, my laws.

s&w5906
03-11-2009, 1:06 AM
Never carry concelled, always in plain sight on the waist band.. You can be on in your front yard just dont reach for it and you wond be "Brandashing". I carry my Xd40 or S&W 5906, depends what im wearing that day...

gcvt
03-11-2009, 1:17 AM
I live in a one bedroom apartment in San Francisco, so my 'property' consists only of everything within the interior walls and my balcony. I do not carry concealed in the apartment but I have three firearms spread throughout my 750 sq. feet space at the ready.

Seesm
03-11-2009, 1:42 AM
concealed in your home is bad too? That is stupid.... I carry all the time on my property.... better to ask for forgiveness later than be dead.

Omega13device
03-11-2009, 6:36 AM
My city and suburban friends, do you carry a concealed handgun around the home? This would be in the home, and backyard? Can you be in your front yard, legally?

If so what do you carry? This would be for non CCW persons?

See this post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1788360&postcount=6

In short:
Inside your house/apt: Carry concealed or open ok, loaded ok
Front lawn/driveway/any other "public" area: Carry open ok, carry concealed ok, loaded NO

paintballergb
03-11-2009, 6:56 AM
I don't really see the point of carry concealed in your home. When your out it the streets it makes sense but if I need it at home then I want to be able to pull it as quick as possible. If I were to actually carry my weapon at home then it would be open on my hip.

Turbinator
03-11-2009, 7:11 AM
I don't really see the point of carry concealed in your home. When your out it the streets it makes sense but if I need it at home then I want to be able to pull it as quick as possible. If I were to actually carry my weapon at home then it would be open on my hip.

I carry concealed (as opposed to open carry) at home for a couple reasons. First, it doesn't alarm my non-gun friends when they come over to visit - they don't see it. Second, carrying open isn't always convenient - the gun bumps into furniture, dings my cabinets, and gets in my way when I'm lounging on the couch. CCW IWB works much better.

Turby

Beelzy
03-11-2009, 8:58 AM
Carrying concealed in the house is literally a PITA. If not there, the hip. ;)

I have a flair for the dramatic and prefer the reach to the hidden cubby hole,
and make a flashy presentation. :D

M1A Rifleman
03-11-2009, 11:16 AM
You can carry anyway you'd like in your home or on your property - no law againt it as your front yard is not a public right of way, its private property for a single family home. The question is why do you feel you need to carry at all in your home or in your yard????

Omega13device
03-11-2009, 2:14 PM
The question is why do you feel you need to carry at all in your home or in your yard????
In the OPs defense I'll throw it back to you: why do you need to own a gun at all?

I don't think any gun owner should have to answer either of those questions.

M1A Rifleman
03-11-2009, 2:24 PM
In the OPs defense I'll throw it back to you: why do you need to own a gun at all?

I don't think any gun owner should have to answer either of those questions.


Isn't that the point of this site, to exchange information and ideas? So I'd like to hear the OP's thoughts as to why he wants to carry around his yard - maybe he lives is a questionable place, I don't know, thats why I asked.

Whats it to you anyway, why do you care what questions are asked?

Omega13device
03-11-2009, 2:45 PM
Isn't that the point of this site, to exchange information and ideas? So I'd like to hear the OP's thoughts as to why he wants to carry around his yard - maybe he lives is a questionable place, I don't know, thats why I asked.

Whats it to you anyway, why do you care what questions are asked?
The question calls him out to justify himself for doing something that's perfectly legal. I was mainly reacting to the "why do you need" part and if you worded it differently I might have had a different reaction. I only care about that type of "why do you need it" question because it's used by anti-gun people trying to undermine the 2nd Amendment. As if you have to demonstrate some "need" to own a gun any more than you have to demonstrate a need for free speech or a trial by jury. Since anti-gun folks try to press this "need test" on us all the time I think we should be careful about asking each other why we "need" to do something that's perfectly legal and within our rights.

Nothing wrong with having the discussion, but I don't think the OP should have to justify himself in front of anyone if he doesn't want to. Nor should you or I have to justify why we want to own guns. But if he wants to discuss it that's certainly his business.

ETA: Sorry if my tone bothered you. Personally the main reason for me to carry at home is that I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I would feel pretty silly to have someone breaking into my home with me there and potentially be cut off from my safe due to the layout of my house. And sometimes I need to go outside briefly, and if you're going in and out it's easier to keep packing rather than taking it off and putting it back on.

M1A Rifleman
03-11-2009, 2:56 PM
The question calls him out to justify himself for doing something that's perfectly legal. I was mainly reacting to the "why do you need" part and if you worded it differently I might have had a different reaction. I only care about that type of "why do you need it" question because it's used by anti-gun people trying to undermine the 2nd Amendment. As if you have to demonstrate some "need" to own a gun any more than you have to demonstrate a need for free speech or a trial by jury. Since anti-gun folks try to press this "need test" on us all the time I think we should be careful about asking each other why we "need" to do something that's perfectly legal and within our rights.

Nothing wrong with having the discussion, but I don't think the OP should have to justify himself in front of anyone if he doesn't want to. Nor should you or I have to justify why we want to own guns. But if he wants to discuss it that's certainly his business.

ETA: Sorry if my tone bothered you. Personally the main reason for me to carry at home is that I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I would feel pretty silly to have someone breaking into my home with me there and potentially be cut off from my safe due to the layout of my house. And sometimes I need to go outside briefly, and if you're going in and out it's easier to keep packing rather than taking it off and putting it back on.


I think you need to lighten-up.

eccvets
03-11-2009, 3:13 PM
just have em locked and cocked and ready to rock!

bountyhunter
03-11-2009, 3:28 PM
My city and suburban friends, do you carry a concealed handgun around the home? This would be in the home, and backyard? Can you be in your front yard, legally?

If so what do you carry? This would be for non CCW persons? You can legally carry a gun anywhere on your property or at your business establishment. You can not expose it in a threatening way as that is "brandishing" and you will get arrested for that.

SgtDinosaur
03-11-2009, 4:01 PM
If I open my front door with my 1911 in my hand, barrel down, is that brandishing? Ooops......

G-Man WC
03-11-2009, 4:32 PM
ETA: Sorry if my tone bothered you. Personally the main reason for me to carry at home is that I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I would feel pretty silly to have someone breaking into my home with me there and potentially be cut off from my safe due to the layout of my house. And sometimes I need to go outside briefly, and if you're going in and out it's easier to keep packing rather than taking it off and putting it back on.
Omega, You have the right to carry on your property. I'm just wondering to the extent you speak of? Do you live in Compton, Watts, The Iron Triangle, or Hunter Point where you fear for your life or property? Not try to be a SmartAss.
If I lived in the hood or had questionable's next door, I would 24/7. -g

GuyW
03-11-2009, 4:53 PM
This has been debated numerous times here, do a search.

Private property that's physically open to anybody just walking in = no concealed, no loaded....no s$%^
.

Omega13device
03-11-2009, 4:54 PM
I think you need to lighten-up.
At many times of the day you're absolutely right!

Omega, You have the right to carry on your property. I'm just wondering to the extent you speak of? Do you live in Compton, Watts, The Iron Triangle, or Hunter Point where you fear for your life or property? Not try to be a SmartAss.
If I lived in the hood or had questionable's next door, I would 24/7. -g
I see...so other than those and similar "high crime" areas, no one ever breaks into a house or apartment. Interesting theory.

Omega13device
03-11-2009, 5:01 PM
This has been debated numerous times here, do a search.

Private property that's physically open to anybody just walking in = no concealed, no loaded....no s$%^
.
Close but not exactly. Concealed/unloaded is ok in the public areas of your private property. Neither 12025 or 12026 have the "in a public place" wording that you find in 12031 (loaded carry).



12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.

gunboat
03-11-2009, 5:07 PM
Regarding "outside on your property" --- Not within 1000ft of a school -

GuyW
03-11-2009, 5:26 PM
Close but not exactly. Concealed/unloaded is ok in the public areas of your private property. Neither 12025 or 12026 have the "in a public place" wording that you find in 12031 (loaded carry).

I think you may be exactly correct.

However, given the demonstrated lack of gun law knowledge and/or antipathy to gunowners exhibited by some LE and prosecutors, concealed carry unloaded in your open front yard may be legally risky...
.

glockman19
03-11-2009, 5:35 PM
I generally have a gun in my pocket whenever it's legal to do so.

N6ATF
03-11-2009, 5:40 PM
:dupe:
:xeno:
:beatdeadhorse5:

Omega13device
03-11-2009, 7:16 PM
Regarding "outside on your property" --- Not within 1000ft of a school -
Where does it say that in the PC?

tortoisethunder
03-11-2009, 9:23 PM
Sorry, I did not want to start any arguments. I was just thinking I If someone were to break in my house and I didn't have my gun with me?

I can't say, stay her boogie man while I go get my gun? I was just wondering whom walks around their home with a gun?

I did do a search and didn't find anything.

BigDogatPlay
03-11-2009, 9:37 PM
Where does it say that in the PC?

I'd kind of like an answer to that one as well.........

devildog999
03-11-2009, 10:02 PM
I do not walk around my home with a gun

N6ATF
03-11-2009, 10:08 PM
I did do a search and didn't find anything.

Anything? A search for 'concealed carry home' came up with these greatest hits:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=94430
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=138061

I guess none of us vets should even bother telling people to search since we all end up doing the searching for people anyway. :mad:

Sam
03-11-2009, 10:26 PM
After reading those two threads, I'll never understand why people question others' desire to carry concealed or not in their own home.

NiteQwill
03-12-2009, 7:28 AM
Where does it say that in the PC?

Overturf law applies in a school zone. I have to look up the case law, but yes, you cannot carry a gun outside your home (even on your lawn) in a school zone.

Omega13device
03-12-2009, 8:56 AM
Overturf law applies in a school zone. I have to look up the case law, but yes, you cannot carry a gun outside your home (even on your lawn) in a school zone.
Check the PC before you post next time.

The "school zone" rule (626.9 PC) includes an exception for private property:

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.

Moreover, Overturf was convicted of violating 12031 PC (loaded carry), not 12025 (concealed) so I don't see how the case law there can possibly apply to concealed. But you're welcome to prove me wrong, here's the decision: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/legal/539-people-v-overturf-carrying-private-property-outdoors.html.

DVLDOC
03-12-2009, 9:07 AM
I carry concealed (as opposed to open carry) at home for a couple reasons. First, it doesn't alarm my non-gun friends when they come over to visit - they don't see it. Second, carrying open isn't always convenient - the gun bumps into furniture, dings my cabinets, and gets in my way when I'm lounging on the couch. CCW IWB works much better.

Turby


+1 :thumbsup:

GuyW
03-12-2009, 9:19 AM
Moreover, Overturf was convicted of violating 12031 PC (loaded carry), not 12025 (concealed) so I don't see how the case law there can possibly apply to concealed. But you're welcome to prove me wrong, here's the decision: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/legal/539-people-v-overturf-carrying-private-property-outdoors.html.

Overturf talks about public places that are privately owned:

"Appellant argues that subdivision (f) exempts him from liability both because the incident took place on property which constitutes his place of business within the meaning of subdivision (f) and on property which, while "public" within the definition of subdivision (a), nevertheless was his private property within subdivision (f)."

He lost - private property can be a "public place".

Whether that's just dicta or not I dunno, but IMHO it could support an arrest and prosecution for concealed carry in "public" (without an exception)
.

Decoligny
03-12-2009, 10:29 AM
You can carry anyway you'd like in your home or on your property - no law againt it as your front yard is not a public right of way, its private property for a single family home. The question is why do you feel you need to carry at all in your home or in your yard????

Because that is where the most important and valuable things in my life are located.

My wife is at home, all my stuff is at home, and I refuse to be caught sitting unarmed in my den if some group of crackheads decide to kick my door in and do a home invasion/robbery/rape/murder.

I have seen several groups of stray/loose dogs running past my house on occasion, including several pit bulls. If I happen to be in my yard, and one of these dogs decides he wants to know what my throat tastes like, I would like to have some other option than being a scooby-snack.

The thing is, you NEVER know where or when you will NEED a gun. If you have invented a threat-o-meter that can tell me exactly when and exactly where I will need a gun, then I will pay whatever you are asking for it. Till then, I will carry my gun everywhere that I can legally carry it.

Decoligny
03-12-2009, 10:31 AM
This has been debated numerous times here, do a search.

Private property that's physically open to anybody just walking in = no concealed, no loaded....no s$%^
.

No concealed = true.
No loaded = Not necessarily true. If you live in unincorporated territory where it is legal to discharge a firearm, then you can Open Carry Loaded.

tombinghamthegreat
03-12-2009, 10:34 AM
Overturf talks about public places that are privately owned.

"Appellant argues that subdivision (f) exempts him from liability both because the incident took place on property which constitutes his place of business within the meaning of subdivision (f) and on property which, while "public" within the definition of subdivision (a), nevertheless was his private property within subdivision (f)."

He lost - private property can be a "public place".

Whether that's just dicta or not I dunno, but IMHO it could support a prosecution for concealed carry in "public" (without an exception)
.

It can be but if the property is has like a 6 foot fence surrounding the property with locked gates then this would not apply because it cannot be considered public.

Decoligny
03-12-2009, 10:36 AM
Regarding "outside on your property" --- Not within 1000ft of a school -

I think you are wrong on this one.

626.9 doesn't have the "while in any public place" wording that will get you in trouble like 12031.

In fact 626.9 has a specific exemption for "on private property".

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.

M1A Rifleman
03-12-2009, 10:38 AM
Because that is where the most important and valuable things in my life are located.

The thing is, you NEVER know where or when you will NEED a gun. If you have invented a threat-o-meter that can tell me exactly when and exactly where I will need a gun, then I will pay whatever you are asking for it. Till then, I will carry my gun everywhere that I can legally carry it.

Or, I guess another option is to be blessed to live in a location where this stuff does not occur or have the need to really worry. In fifteen years, I have only had to pull a handgun once at home due to a perceived threat, and was the fastest I ever opened the safe. So my question was to get a felling of what the OP was thinking.

Decoligny
03-12-2009, 11:13 AM
Or, I guess another option is to be blessed to live in a location where this stuff does not occur or have the need to really worry. In fifteen years, I have only had to pull a handgun once at home due to a perceived threat, and was the fastest I ever opened the safe. So my question was to get a felling of what the OP was thinking.

That one time if you had been in a different room, you may not have made it to your safe in time. There is no "safe place" that is exempt from the possibility of the unthinkable happening.

A "safe quiet neighborhood" is often the target of the thief/rapist/murderer, because it is where nobody would expect anything bad to happen, so they have victims who are likely to be unprepared to respond to the attack.

I live in a rural area that for the most part is safe. However, there have been home invasions in every type of neighborhood you can think of. If there is 1 chance in a million that something bad will happen, a person would have to be a fool not to be prepared for that 1.

M1A Rifleman
03-12-2009, 11:44 AM
[QUOTE=Decoligny;2157061]That one time if you had been in a different room, you may not have made it to your safe in time. There is no "safe place" that is exempt from the possibility of the unthinkable happening.
QUOTE]

What you mean, I was in a different room. I needed to get through two rooms and a closet before I got to the safe. No problem, It gave time slow down and think about the plan, the situation etc., rather than just shooting like some loon.

I guess I'm lucky currently in that I'm living around cops. I've really not had to be all that worried. I also don't live in fear, which seems to be a common scenario in this post sounds.

The only other time away from home that I had a problem was in college, and I'm glad that I was not armed at the time, as I was pissed enough to have used it.

Omega13device
03-12-2009, 12:10 PM
Overturf talks about public places that are privately owned.

"Appellant argues that subdivision (f) exempts him from liability both because the incident took place on property which constitutes his place of business within the meaning of subdivision (f) and on property which, while "public" within the definition of subdivision (a), nevertheless was his private property within subdivision (f)."

He lost - private property can be a "public place".

Whether that's just dicta or not I dunno, but IMHO it could support a prosecution for concealed carry in "public" (without an exception)
.
The decision hinged on the distinction between "having" and "carrying" a loaded firearm on private property. The issue of what's private vs. public wasn't taken up as far as I can tell from reading the decision, maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it.
ETA: I wrote the above but then realized it's incorrect. If it were clear that your driveway could not be considered part of "any public place or any public street" as stated in 12031, then Overturf would have been acquitted. So in that sense Overturf does speak to private/public...but only for loaded. 12026 still provides for legal open/unloaded or concealed/unloaded carry on your private property.

ETA2: Since the private property exception in 626.9 uses the word "possession" which is similar "having" in 12031, I'm second guessing my earlier post about school zones. If you carried, even unloaded, in a "public" part of your private property that was also in a school zone you might have deal with the Overturf precedent.

Moto4Fun
03-12-2009, 1:47 PM
You guys are spinning my head, are your attorneys?! From the posted PCs I don't see anything that says unloaded/concealed carry is OK, but loaded concealed carry is not. In fact in all of the reading I have done here, I have never heard anybody say anything about unloaded concealed carry.

Is there a definition in the PC that states what is considered private property with public access? Or do we always have to refer to case law for that? My interpretation of this would be like a shopping center that I own, or an apartment complex that I own, a business that I own. I would consider that private property that has public access. I would not consider any part of my home or property to be publicly accessible. I also don't have a sidewalk in front my house, so there is no confusion about passers by being able to easily step onto my property.

I do carry concealed on my property. If someone comes looking for trouble, there is not limit to when or how they may do it. I would never make a decision to carry or not carry based on how many times in my life I have needed a weapon, and I certainly don't think a gun safe is a place to keep a home defense gun regardless of how fast it can be opened. I do not live in fear.

Omega13device
03-12-2009, 2:52 PM
You guys are spinning my head, are your attorneys?! From the posted PCs I don't see anything that says unloaded/concealed carry is OK, but loaded concealed carry is not. In fact in all of the reading I have done here, I have never heard anybody say anything about unloaded concealed carry.I'm not a lawyer and I'm not representing this as legal advice - read the law yourself and do your own research in the California Penal Code (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=pen&codebody=&hits=20).

Concealed carry and loaded carry are covered in different parts of the penal code. Quick summary:

12025 - Prohibits concealed carry without a permit.
12026 - Contains exceptions to 12025 including carrying concealed in your residence, place of business, or on your lawfully possessed private property. Note that it also says "Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031."
12031 - Prohibits carrying of a firearm on your person or in your vehicle "in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory"

To answer your question though, 12026 (concealed) makes a clear exception for "carrying" concealed on your private property. 12031 (loaded) has a similar exception but only for "having" a loaded firearm on your property. The Overturf precedent was that "having" did not include carrying. So you may carry concealed on your private property but not loaded. There is no law prohibiting unloaded carry on your property, so it is legal as long as you're not in violation of some other statute (under 18, felon, school zone, or whatever).

Is there a definition in the PC that states what is considered private property with public access? Or do we always have to refer to case law for that? My interpretation of this would be like a shopping center that I own, or an apartment complex that I own, a business that I own. I would consider that private property that has public access. I would not consider any part of my home or property to be publicly accessible. I also don't have a sidewalk in front my house, so there is no confusion about passers by being able to easily step onto my property. There have been threads on this topic and there isn't a clear answer. You can take a guess at part of it from Overturf. Obviously his driveway was considered a "public place" even though it was on his private property. Personally I don't plan to be a test case for this question.

I do carry concealed on my property. If someone comes looking for trouble, there is not limit to when or how they may do it. I would never make a decision to carry or not carry based on how many times in my life I have needed a weapon, and I certainly don't think a gun safe is a place to keep a home defense gun regardless of how fast it can be opened. I do not live in fear.Well said. Just be mindful of the issues related to loaded carry I outlined above.

Also, read the penal code carefully yourself. There's a lot of detail in there. My summary is not the whole story.

SgtDinosaur
03-12-2009, 3:04 PM
Because that is where the most important and valuable things in my life are located.

My wife is at home, all my stuff is at home, and I refuse to be caught sitting unarmed in my den if some group of crackheads decide to kick my door in and do a home invasion/robbery/rape/murder.

I have seen several groups of stray/loose dogs running past my house on occasion, including several pit bulls. If I happen to be in my yard, and one of these dogs decides he wants to know what my throat tastes like, I would like to have some other option than being a scooby-snack.

The thing is, you NEVER know where or when you will NEED a gun. If you have invented a threat-o-meter that can tell me exactly when and exactly where I will need a gun, then I will pay whatever you are asking for it. Till then, I will carry my gun everywhere that I can legally carry it.

:thumbsup: This. My thoughts exactly. If the law says something else then the law is an ***. (jeez - I just got censored for quoting Charles Dickens. Oh well.)

Omega13device
03-12-2009, 10:48 PM
For those that think that "nice" neighborhoods are totally safe: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/12/BA0A16EFQG.DTL

Parabellus
03-28-2009, 8:26 PM
Fairly new here so I'm getting in on this a little late. Having read this thread for the first time I have a couple thoughts.
Firstly: This state badly needs 'shall issue' status.
Secondly: Because I and my all-night counterpart are alone most of the in a small office in an alley that needs access for other workers to come and go at all hours we both keep a handgun under the desk with instant access. My 1911 is backed up with a PPK/S that I keep with me when I go to the head or IWB when I go into the parking lot in the line of my job. Both are fully loaded/safety on.
Am I to beleive that I need to unload either one?

Russell

Omega13device
03-28-2009, 10:05 PM
See post #45 above. Overturf seems to indicate that you may not carry loaded in any place that's reasonably accessible to the public. But if you're really concerned I would consult a lawyer who is knowledgeable about such things.

SirGlockALott
03-29-2009, 9:19 AM
Funny!

Librarian
03-29-2009, 10:30 AM
See post #45 above. Overturf seems to indicate that you may not carry loaded in any place that's reasonably accessible to the public. But if you're really concerned I would consult a lawyer who is knowledgeable about such things.

Overturf is partially outdated; as a direct result of that case, 12026 was amended. Compare 12026 as quoted in Overturf with 12026 here (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12020-12040.html).

However, the part mentioned above is still, if not 'good', at least 'law'; part of the problem for Overturf was that the area he was carrying was not restricted access, so the 'open front yard' could be a problem. Back yards usually are considered less accessible (but not necessarily). In neither case would the school zone be a problem, since there is the (quoted already in this thread) private property exemption, but the 12031 loaded in public in the front yard might apply.

+1 on the lawyer - they get paid to make judgements, because they're supposed to know things, and when taking a risk one should be properly informed.

Whether this kind of thing should be a risk is entirely a different question.

DMCA
03-29-2009, 10:38 AM
I was just wondering whom walks around their home with a gun?



I do, while wearing polka dot shorts and a sequined shirt and mid calf cowboy boots with a leather pattern that matches my holster.:D

I think it would be a good way to accustom yourself to having a loaded weapon strapped on if you planned to CCW. Some people may wish to have the additional measure of security.

Gijoe
03-29-2009, 3:29 PM
i just do it to scare the meter guys to try to get them to stop coming my house
i hate getting those bills lol :wacko:

Colt
03-29-2009, 4:13 PM
YThe question is why do you feel you need to carry at all in your home or in your yard????

protection from Attack Mice - they're everywhere...

paul0660
03-29-2009, 5:09 PM
Interesting discussion. The sheer volume of misinformation is astounding.

If I carried openly my 2.5 year old son would see the gun and forever try to grab it. Concealing it takes away that temptation.

Your kid should try to grab your gun once, at most twice. Sometimes, wacking is teaching.

N6ATF
03-29-2009, 5:27 PM
Unless the kid is an out of control masochist and won't grow out of it. I've known a few.

You're not so much hiding it from your kid, you're making it harder for them to grab without flipping up your cover garment.

beerup949
03-29-2009, 6:39 PM
I just keep 'em around the house. No reason to carry around while I'm in my actual house IMHO. I do have them also in condition 1 as USN Cheif stated. Thats the most important thing.

SeanCasey
03-29-2009, 7:52 PM
Hypothetical question:

My wife keeps her horse on private property owned by someone else. Large lot of land with trails going into foothills, no "public access", area known for a large number of coyotes and a few mountain lions. The property in entirely within incorporated city limits. No city or county codes go beyond the state or federal laws regarding carry. The property owner has given permission to carry a firearm in any manner that is legal.

So what is she legally allowed to do? UOC? LOC? Loaded Concealed? Unloaded Concealed? None of the above?

Librarian
03-29-2009, 8:26 PM
Hypothetical question:

My wife keeps her horse on private property owned by someone else. Large lot of land with trails going into foothills, no "public access", area known for a large number of coyotes and a few mountain lions. The property in entirely within incorporated city limits. No city or county codes go beyond the state or federal laws regarding carry. The property owner has given permission to carry a firearm in any manner that is legal.

So what is she legally allowed to do? UOC? LOC? Loaded Concealed? Unloaded Concealed? None of the above?

My guess is LOC. 12026 has an exception for your/her very own, name on the deed or lease, property (as I read it) for concealed, but 12031 merely says 'public place' for loaded. If the private property is gated, it shouldn't (shouldn't!) be deemed 'public' for 12031.

A property owner, IMO, ought to be able to permit CCW on his property to anyone not otherwise ineligible to own a gun, but I just don't see that in PC.

There is the side issue of 'who would know?' if the handgun were properly concealed.

Or, you could avoid the whole problem of concealed/loaded handguns and go with a rifle in a saddle scabbard. Under the coyote/mountain lion suggestion, that's what I'd do, I think.

SeanCasey
03-30-2009, 5:39 AM
You may given me an excuse for a new rifle since my wife isn't too wanting to carry around my Mosin Nagant!

Thanks for the input. So in my case it seems like it is presumed legal since the law doesn't seem to directly prohibit it?

Librarian
03-30-2009, 11:37 AM
You may given me an excuse for a new rifle since my wife isn't too wanting to carry around my Mosin Nagant!

Thanks for the input. So in my case it seems like it is presumed legal since the law doesn't seem to directly prohibit it?

Yes, with the caution that you could still be arrested and prosecuted. Sometimes it's expensive to be right. But that's the way things generally work - if there's no DO NOT then it's probably OK (until some doofus manages to get 'it' classed as included in a 'do not' :( )

I'd go traditional, with a lever-action for the new rifle. Maybe a used Winchester 94 in 30-30. Gunbroker has them at all kinds of prices - high, low, I-don't-know. Took a quick look for leather scabbards - some nice ones (IMHO) out there under $100. If you have a horse, you already know what tack and saddles cost!

GuyW
03-30-2009, 11:43 AM
The property owner has given permission to carry a firearm in any manner that is legal.


In writing?

.

GuyW
03-30-2009, 11:46 AM
Or, you could avoid the whole problem of concealed/loaded handguns and go with a rifle in a saddle scabbard.

Loaded? If unloaded, how's that any better than UOC? (setting aside power for mtn lions)

And presumably she rides the horse off the property. Then loaded is definitle illegal.

Librarian
03-30-2009, 12:23 PM
Loaded? If unloaded, how's that any better than UOC? (setting aside power for mtn lions)

And presumably she rides the horse off the property. Then loaded is definitle illegal.

Seems to not be 'public', and further seems she stays on the property - which would, indeed, be a problem. Then, use F&G definition of 'loaded' - poster says city has no more laws about guns than state/feds, so in his hypothetical, no restrictions on hunting in city limits.