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View Full Version : Mac,Uzi,Tec9,Etc Style Pistols ~ Quality Handguns, or....?


insin
03-10-2009, 6:39 PM
Regardless of availability/legalities here or there...

Are Mac,Uzi,Tec9,Etc Style Pistols quality handguns, or are they just "cool" just for the sake of having one?

I lumped a few types together, but I think you get the gist of what I'm asking. I see the pics and for sale post here, but really wonder if they are worth it... How are they at the range? Seems like more hassel (from others ill knowing of CA law) to be worth it. I could see how you would/could be instantly labeled a gangbanger no matter what.

JeffM
03-10-2009, 7:04 PM
Regardless of availability/legalities here or there...

Are Mac,Uzi,Tec9,Etc Style Pistols quality handguns, or are they just "cool" just for the sake of having one?

I lumped a few types together, but I think you get the gist of what I'm asking. I see the pics and for sale post here, but really wonder if they are worth it... How are they at the range? Seems like more hassel (from others ill knowing of CA law) to be worth it. I could see how you would/could be instantly labeled a gangbanger no matter what.

If you're 21-35 and dress like a banger, then I guess so, but if I'm going to the range with a MAC, I'll be wearing slacks and a collared shirt.

The last time I went shooting with a few members here, I made them wait a minute while I put on a collared shirt I had in my car. They asked why I wanted to wear that instead of the t-shirt I was wearing. I said, "It'll look better in the mug shots."

But back to the question, there is a wide range between the quality of the pistols you mention. I like the MAC style pistols more than I like the Tec-9 style. And Uzi's give me a warm fuzzy feeling all over.

But a pre-'82 RPB open bolt is going to be nicer than a Cobray closed bolt or a new MPA.

And a Vector Uzi will be nicer than a Norinco (Although I don't think Norinco imported any Uzi pistols).

So its all relative.

But if I had a few quality pistols like HKs or SIGs, it would be nice to have a MAC at the same price point simply for the novelty of it. There are tons of people with SIG 220s and HK USPs, but who do you know with a SM11A1 or a PM-11 or a Tec-DC9, or a MPA930?

Saigon1965
03-10-2009, 7:07 PM
Pictures of the next shoot please - LOL -

The last time I went shooting with a few members here, I made them wait a minute while I put on a collared shirt I had in my car. They asked why I wanted to wear that instead of the t-shirt I was wearing. I said, "It'll look better in the mug shots."

Like Jeff had said - It's all relative and to have things not too many others have -

6172crew
03-10-2009, 7:14 PM
I have the MAC and Mini Uzi, The mini rules but if you look into LAGE upper for the Mac you will see they can be made into fantastic firearms.

AJAX22
03-10-2009, 7:35 PM
closed bolt vs open bolt are completely different animals.

I'm not a huge fan of the cobray closed bolt Macs, but the Masterpiece guns have a nice trigger (and the open bolt guns are just amazing all around)

Tec 9's aren't really my thing but they do look neat, I prefer the tec22...

The problem with the tec type guns are the necessity of a pinned magazine.... for that reason alone its enough to make me go with a mac or an uzi...

Uzi's are exceptionally high quality, you can't go wrong with an uzi.

How you come across (perceived as a 'banger' etc) is a result of how you carry and present yourself. When I show up at the range with My M11/9 a line of people forms up just to talk to me about it... and the most asked question is "are you a police officer?" followed by "is that legal?" and then "how can I get one?" Even the old timers who don't particularly like them enjoy putting some rounds downrange.



I own a number of double stack, very large capacity standard handguns (glocks, sig's, etc... ) and I have shot a large number of others (bhp, ruger, s&w 59 etc..)

I've rapid fired 30 round+ magazines through all of them, and I can honestly say I much prefer blasting with the mac/uzi type guns... the lack of a reciprocating slide and a larger overall mass makes them much more pleasant for rapid fire blasting out at tin can ranges.

I've wanted a full sized uzi type pistol of my own for a very long time but they've only recently become available for purchase in CA.

I think I might have to get one of the open bolt Mac's first however, as I think open bolt stuff is very likely to be 'administratively re-defined' as a machine gun at which point they would be grandfathered as legal but not transferable in the state of CA.

Anyway, to answer your question quickly, Yes on some, no on others.

Intratec guns are not of the highest quality (mostly they are just cool)

Interdynamic guns are a bit better (and are quite collectible)

Cobray closed bolt Mac's are lots of fun, but the trigger slap is harsh and they're not as nice as the new MPA's, BUT they are 'evil' and getting to be collectible.

MPA's are among the best you can get (if you can't source a CBM10) they don't make a M10 in 9mm only a M11 in 9mm... and they don't make a M12 style pistol... so if you want those you'll have to go with an RPB, Military Armaments Corp, or S.W.D/Leinad) the 930 Micro looks promising, but I've never had a chance to play with one.

There are a few other manufacturers out there, (vulcan, and a handful of others) but not in very large numbers.

The RPB Open bolt Mac's are just the holy grail of California legal assault type pistols. They have very smooth triggers (since they don't have a hammer type system) and are basically 'legal machine guns' since the ATF has declared any future ones produced to be MG's but were forced to grandfather those already in circulation (in 1982) as legal title 1 firearms.

aztecw
03-11-2009, 1:31 AM
I was looking into getting one of those type of pistol or an AR/AK pistol. Thanks for the info guys. Still deciding though. I know I know get them all, if I had the money.

chiz
03-11-2009, 1:22 PM
i have an mpa930 mini mac that i built and it has become my favorite gun. it is a lot of fun to shoot. everyone at the range was asking about it.

AJAX22
03-11-2009, 2:45 PM
I was looking into getting one of those type of pistol or an AR/AK pistol. Thanks for the info guys. Still deciding though. I know I know get them all, if I had the money.

If you really are limited to only ONE, get an open bolt RPB Mac..

there is no substitute for the odd sensation of pulling the trigger and feeling the bolt slam forward...

If you can only get 2, get an open bolt RPB and an AR15 pistol

third choice would be an AK pistol

fourth choice would be an uzi pistol

fifth choice would be a MPA (probably a 930)

sixth choice would be a KG9 open bolt

seventh choice would be a cobray

eighth choice would be a KG99 with the full shroud

ninth choice would be a DC9 with the full shroud

etc. etc. etc.

but TOP of the list is open bolt

B Strong
03-11-2009, 6:15 PM
All of the above semi-auto MP clones are the product of consumer demand, not tactical need.

No military org or LEA ever wrote up a MENS (Mission Essential Needs Statement) asking for a semi auto pistol version of a Ingram or Uzi.

I guess they have their charms for some, but I wasn't a fan when they were cheap and available everywhere, and I'm certainly not a fan now.

If it floats your boat, go for it.

scotthmt
03-11-2009, 8:29 PM
are macs generally reliable? And what about accuracy, are they decent atleast? I've been accumulating parts to build one.

AJAX22
03-11-2009, 8:38 PM
the PM12 380's are ridiculously accurate for some reason, as are some of the .45acp closed bolt guns.

the 9mm stuff is basically a bullet hose (at least the stuff I've played with)

Mac's are as reliable as the mag you use in them.

so stay away from the polymer cobray mags and you'll be just fine.

JeffM
03-11-2009, 8:56 PM
are macs generally reliable? And what about accuracy, are they decent atleast? I've been accumulating parts to build one.

I'd say it depends on the manufacturer. Most of the MACs I've seen have been reliable. The biggest issue can be with magazines, especially the early Zytel plastic magazines. Sten magazines have less issues, but if you have enough, pick out the best ones and sell the rest as parts. It's funny, but a magazine that won't work in one gun might be perfect in another and vice-versa.

Some of them have been not so accurate. Some of the barrels I've seen look like they had their rifling done by scratching the inside of a tube with a sharpened screwdriver. (ETA: now that I've seen AJAX's post, IIRC the only bad rifling I've seen has all been on 9mm guns)

But the MPA's I've seen have all been good to go.

I haven't seen too many open-bolts in action, but I would imagine the simple mechanism would make them more reliable as well.

Hitman
03-12-2009, 12:34 AM
I have had the Cobray and a Tec9 and shot a friend's UZI. Out of all of them the best one was the Uzi to shoot and for quality and accuracy.

tonelar
03-12-2009, 1:25 AM
Regardless of availability/legalities here or there...
Are Mac,Uzi,Tec9,Etc Style Pistols quality handguns, or are they just "cool" just for the sake of having one?

Availability aside, there's a huge quality difference in your list.

They're mostly legal to have (CA compliance makes the separate magazine location lame IMHO), but even in the pre-ban days... the only ones I bought were the Tec22, Uzi and HK.

Some of my shooting buddies had M11s and Tec9s and they always put them down after they'd start malfunctioning (prolly mags or whatever, but they never seemed to get more than a mag or two out of them).

My UZI pistol ended up with a .45 conversion so I never invested in a Mac... I always wanted an open bolt Mac. Are open bolt pistols legal? Or am I thinking of the ban on open bolt long guns?

aztecw
03-12-2009, 2:02 AM
If you really are limited to only ONE, get an open bolt RPB Mac..

there is no substitute for the odd sensation of pulling the trigger and feeling the bolt slam forward...

If you can only get 2, get an open bolt RPB and an AR15 pistol

third choice would be an AK pistol

fourth choice would be an uzi pistol

fifth choice would be a MPA (probably a 930)

sixth choice would be a KG9 open bolt

seventh choice would be a cobray

eighth choice would be a KG99 with the full shroud

ninth choice would be a DC9 with the full shroud

etc. etc. etc.

but TOP of the list is open bolt

Nice, but aren't open bolts about 4K. Ouch! That is out of my price range especially for a single shot pistol.

So it seems in the Uzi, Mac... section 9mm are not the best choice for quality. Hmm.

PRKArms
03-12-2009, 6:42 AM
Nice, but aren't open bolts about 4K. Ouch! That is out of my price range especially for a single shot pistol.

So it seems in the Uzi, Mac... section 9mm are not the best choice for quality. Hmm.

They Don't have to stay single shot ;)

the only reason for it being a single shot would be to go through DROS, once that is done you can convert it back to original configuration (minus the threaded barrel)

And yes, open bolt firearms are 100% legal (providing they were made before the 1982 ban took effect)

A very few which were already in wide circulation at the time the ATF revised their opinion of open bolt semi automatics were specifically grandfathered in.

RPB Mac 10's and KG9's were among those specifically named as exempt if made prior to a specific date.

If they were made again today they would be classified instantly as a machine gun. However, since so many were already in the hands of the people at the time the ATF revised their opinion they were prety much forced to allow the ones already made to continue to be classified as a title 1 firearm.

aztecw
03-13-2009, 4:50 AM
So the Uzi, Mac... can be converted back to semi auto, 10 round mag, and no type of bullet button(except for ar/ak pistols)?

ENTHUSIAST
03-13-2009, 5:17 AM
If the mag goes in the pistol grip you dont have any evil features you dont need a maglock and if you possess Hi/Standard Cap mags you can even use them too!

Enjoy,
-enthusiast

tonelar
03-13-2009, 10:53 PM
its nice having that collection of grease gun mags in the attic-

FlyingDesertEagle
03-13-2009, 11:39 PM
Im no good at quoting bt someone said You can't go wrong with an Uzi. This is so true. When the Uzis were $600. The Tecs were $300. That speaks to their overall quality.

Uzi does it.

shootfirst
03-14-2009, 1:14 AM
I remember buying a Model A UZI carbine back in 1981 for about 650.00, I was tempted by an open bolt MAC but heard that when the open bolt goes forward and strips the round, chambers and fires, that it would drop your point of aim quite a bit. True or false? I don't know because I never got to fire one. The UZI had the 16" barrel but 9" was inside the gun, it was pretty portable, but was seriously accurate. The MACs definitely have the cool factor but were not known for their reliabilty or accuracy as I remember and their high cyclic rate (about 1100 rpm in 9mm if I remember right) was outrageous. Should have been belt fed. Caused some pretty rapid wear and tear on springs, etc. Whether those problems were overcome in later years, I have no idea, but this is what I heard and read at the time. I also owned a Tec 9. Paid 189.00 for it at Turners. Gun shot pretty well but keyholed rounds on the target at 15 yds. I had an E clip on the end of the recoil spring guide rod came off about the second time I took it to the range. Sent it in and they fixed it, but I never really trusted it after that. I think that company that manufactured those became Kel-tec later on. Had Tec 22 also, very fun gun, but I had a lot of feed problems and the plastic mags kept cracking at the lips and the seams. If I wanted a serious gun, I would go with the UZI. Not as pretty or finely crafted as a HK, but rugged. The AKs of 9mm's. I know that a carbine is not a pistol, but the smaller UZIs were good enough for the secret service to carry while guarding the president.

tonelar
03-14-2009, 11:35 AM
my model A was used for $550 in 83. Mine came with the 16" and a dummy bbl.
thats cool you got a 9" and 16" with yours (was the sbr a non issue in 81)? Or did it not reach the restrictor ring?