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View Full Version : .223 recipe. I'm a newb trying different bullets


4literranger485
03-10-2009, 9:23 AM
I just bought some Hornady bullets: .224 22 CAL 55 GR FMJ BT W/C

Looking for some load data on these and can't find it anywhere. I'm not sure if this is even proper to ask here, so if i'm out of line please just delete my post ::thumbsup:

Thanks in advance gentlemen!

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 9:26 AM
25grain varget
CCI #41 primers or Winchester Small Rifle Primers.

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 9:30 AM
crap, i forgot to say i have IMR 4198 powder, i'm getting low on varget (i think someone hogged up all the nations supply of Varget ^^^^)

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 9:34 AM
crap, i forgot to say i have IMR 4198 powder, i'm getting low on varget (i think someone hogged up all the nations supply of Varget ^^^^)

Don't know who you are talking about:innocent:

The only experience that I have with IMR did not go well. A fellow Cal Gunner loaded a bunch of it at my house and he had nothing but problems with it out of his 16" ar.

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 9:51 AM
well crap, thats exactly what i'm loading it for :D

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 9:54 AM
well crap, thats exactly what i'm loading it for :D

I believe we were using 21.7 grains using the 55gr FMJBT's with CCI #41 primers and he has had nothing but problems trying to shoot that ammo.
Even the Hodgon website does not recommend it for .223.

cleanguy46
03-10-2009, 9:54 AM
25grain varget
CCI #41 primers or Winchester Small Rifle Primers.

Hey Chief what kind of velocity are you getting with this load?

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 9:57 AM
they use it in a few loads in my Lyman manual, just not for the exact bullet i listed. I'm a bit paranoid as i'm new to reloading so i was hoping to get what hornady recommends for that bullet/powder. I know they are a bit conservative with their loads which helps me in the confidence end of this. I don't want to blow up :D

Darklyte27
03-10-2009, 9:58 AM
I beleive these are just plinking rds, I dont think hes chronoing, chief is using pricier varget vs h335 or some other cheaper powder.

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 9:58 AM
Hey Chief what kind of velocity are you getting with this load?

Well thank you for asking.

3340 FPS.

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 10:00 AM
I beleive these are just plinking rds, I dont think hes chronoing, chief is using pricier varget vs h335 or some other cheaper powder.

No bro, these are not just plinking rounds. These are APSHTFR (All Purpose **** Hit the Fan Rounds). We used a chrono last time at the range and that is what the old guy told me that the velocity was.:D

cleanguy46
03-10-2009, 10:01 AM
they use it in a few loads in my Lyman manual, just not for the exact bullet i listed. I'm a bit paranoid as i'm new to reloading so i was hoping to get what hornady recommends for that bullet/powder. I know they are a bit conservative with their loads which helps me in the confidence end of this. I don't want to blow up :D

I am using the same bullets and I loaded 24gr. of Hodgdon H335 with a wolf magnum sr primer and had good results. I am looking at trying Chiefs recipe with the Varget for the same bullet. BTW Lymans manual showed 24.3 gr. of H335 and I rounded it down to an even 24gr charge.

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 10:03 AM
how bout IMR 4198 :D

cleanguy46
03-10-2009, 10:04 AM
how bout IMR 4198 :D

I fairly new too so I cant comment on that choice of powder.

Darklyte27
03-10-2009, 10:07 AM
No bro, these are not just plinking rounds. These are APSHTFR (All Purpose **** Hit the Fan Rounds). We used a chrono last time at the range and that is what the old guy told me that the velocity was.:D

oh nice

I thought you were just trying to shoot as fast as you were loading them!

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 10:08 AM
Give it a try with the IMR powder using the load data in the manual. The gun will not blow up as long as you don't exceed the max load. Maybe you will have better luck.

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 10:09 AM
my only probelm is the load in the book is for a 55 grn standard bullet, and the ones i'm using are boat tails. maybe i can just find another boat tail 55 grainer to work my load off of.

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 10:13 AM
my only probelm is the load in the book is for a 55 grn standard bullet, and the ones i'm using are boat tails. maybe i can just find another boat tail 55 grainer to work my load off of.

Yeah, the load book for the 55gr that I am using said that I needed a 55gr. jacketed SPT bullet, but I used 55rg FMJ and FMJBT bullets and they work perfect.

Linus
03-10-2009, 10:15 AM
Try this...
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Also, you can use the load in your manual that's for a 55gr bullet, it doesn't have to be the exact bullet your using as long as its the same weight, just start off with the min load and work up.

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 10:18 AM
Try this...
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Also, you can use the load in your manual that's for a 55gr bullet, it doesn't have to be the exact bullet your using as long as its the same weight, just start off with the min load and work up.

Yeah, that was my understanding from a few old farts at the range. They were nice enough to gather around me and they gave me some wise advice and did mentioned that to me about the bullets. That as long as they were the same caliber/grain I would be good to go.

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Yeah, the load book for the 55gr that I am using said that I needed a 55gr. jacketed SPT bullet, but I used 55rg FMJ and FMJBT bullets and they work perfect.

:thumbsup: Right on. Thanks guys! Now I just have to get out and shoot some factory ammo to get brass. I'm sure Chief knows where a lot of that stuff is too :D

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 10:35 AM
:thumbsup: Right on. Thanks guys! Now I just have to get out and shoot some factory ammo to get brass. I'm sure Chief knows where a lot of that stuff is too :D

Well, here is another thing on brass. Don't be shy when you go to the range to walk up to the shooters that you see shooting .223 or what ever caliber you are reloading and asking them if they are keeping their brass. The majority of people do not reload. Take advantage of that. that is how I have come across soo much .223 brass and all the other calibers that I reload.

cleanguy46
03-10-2009, 10:53 AM
Well, here is another thing on brass. Don't be shy when you go to the range to walk up to the shooters that you see shooting .223 or what ever caliber you are reloading and asking them if they are keeping their brass. The majority of people do not reload. Take advantage of that. that is how I have come across soo much .223 brass and all the other calibers that I reload.

Roger that! I talked to a couple shooters last Sunday and they did not save their brass so I gladly cleaned it up for them! :D

buffybuster
03-10-2009, 11:50 AM
I just bought some Hornady bullets: .224 22 CAL 55 GR FMJ BT W/C

Looking for some load data on these and can't find it anywhere. I'm not sure if this is even proper to ask here, so if i'm out of line please just delete my post ::thumbsup:

Thanks in advance gentlemen!

Returning to the OP:

IMR4198 or H4198 are not the best powders for use in an AR for .223Rem/5.56 loads. There was a thread recently about "short stroking issue" regarding this exact combination. The 4198 powders are a bit too fast for the AR DI system.

I have used 4198 successfully in my AR's but you have to run the loads right up near MAX for the action to cycle and even then it's relatively sluggish. 4198 works fine in a Mini14 and of course in a bolt action. Velocity with a 55fmj from a 16" barrel was just over 3000fps.

Jicko
03-10-2009, 12:04 PM
Well thank you for asking.

3340 FPS.

3340!?!?!?!?!

That sounded WAY too hot!

What barrel? 24"??

Sierra shows 2800fps(probably low), but 3340fps seems to be too far off
http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf

Jicko
03-10-2009, 12:08 PM
RE: IMR4198

I found it to be temp-sensitive too.

The issue I was getting is that it didn't *RELIABLY* cycle my 14.5" carbine.

This past wkend, I tested a bunch, they mostly cycle fine (but I KNOW that it is marginal, since the bolt won't lock back when the magazine is empty)

But these same rounds didn't work when I did a night shoot, when the temp is lower.

Personally, I will NOT want a batch of ammo to be THIS unreliable.... so, IMO, don't use 4198 for this application if you can.

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 12:08 PM
3340!?!?!?!?!

That sounded WAY too hot!

What barrel? 24"??

Sierra shows 2800fps(probably low), but 3340fps seems to be too far off
http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf

Jicko, that is what the old guy told me what the velocity was. Not sure if he said 3340 or 2665. I am leaning more toward 2665. I see what you mean about that being too hot if it was 3340. It was on my Bushmaster 14.5 Barrel.

Jicko
03-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Jicko, that is what the old guy told me what the velocity was. Not sure if he said 3340 or 2665. I am leaning more toward 2665. I see what you mean about that being too hot if it was 3340. It was on my Bushmaster 16" Barrel.

2665 sounds a lot more reasonable! Sierra probably tested their with a 20" rifle.

I wanted to use Varget, but I am not digging the MV.... I am now looking for another recipe for my 55gr'ers.... now that I've picked up 5k brass from the MD gig.

What I generally do when chrono'ing is to put some "known, good, stable" rounds thru the chrono as a reference. I generally use Federal/LC XM193, I found them to be super tight, so I usually will put 5 rounds of those thru the chrono everyday when I am out chrono'ing. It has served as a good benchmark for me.... just looking at that day's XM193 MV, I can correlate that with my data from other days.... also acts as a sanity check for my chrono...

pdq_wizzard
03-10-2009, 2:52 PM
One Book / One Caliber says for that bullet and IMR 4198

FPS 2800 /17.4gr FPS 2900 /18.2gr 3000 /19.1gr 3100 /20.0gr (they show this as max)


I have used 21.5 but this is above what this book says, I would start at ~19gr and go from there. I start by loading ~ 10 rounds or less per load and see how they work.

I just checked my 7th edition Hornady Handbook and it has the same data.

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 4:31 PM
One Book / One Caliber says for that bullet and IMR 4198

FPS 2800 /17.4gr FPS 2900 /18.2gr 3000 /19.1gr 3100 /20.0gr (they show this as max)


I have used 21.5 but this is above what this book says, I would start at ~19gr and go from there. I start by loading ~ 10 rounds or less per load and see how they work.

I just checked my 7th edition Hornady Handbook and it has the same data.

Well, for some reason AR's are not liking it. Like many other have mentioned it, maybe it works great with Bolt Action Guns or Mini 14's.

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 5:52 PM
well that blows. Hopefully i can get some decent results with that powder. At least I only bought a 1# jug i guess. Maybe I'll find more varget when Chief takes a nap (that is if he even sleeps)

+1 On that extra brass at the range. Im trying to start inviting non-reloaders to the range/desert with me so I can have all that sweet, shiny brass :D My buddy gave me 60 cases this afternoon, and said I can have all his if he comes shooting. I said "wanna go this afternoon?"

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 5:55 PM
well that blows. Hopefully i can get some decent results with that powder. At least I only bought a 1# jug i guess. Maybe I'll find more varget when Chief takes a nap (that is if he even sleeps)

+1 On that extra brass at the range. Im trying to start inviting non-reloaders to the range/desert with me so I can have all that sweet, shiny brass :D My buddy gave me 60 cases this afternoon, and said I can have all his if he comes shooting. I said "wanna go this afternoon?"

No worries, I am done buying powder for a little while.

Man I love my buddies that I go shooting with, but I love the ones that don't reload even more.:D

pdq_wizzard
03-10-2009, 5:57 PM
Well, for some reason AR's are not liking it. Like many other have mentioned it, maybe it works great with Bolt Action Guns or Mini 14's.

I have a CMMG 20" and it works "OK" out of that (good for plinking) if you have IMR 4198 and no other loads to use it in. :thumbsup:

4literranger485
03-10-2009, 8:29 PM
maybe i could convince the "boss" to let me get a mini 14 :D thats rational right? buy $800 rifle so i don't waste $25 of powder. hmmmmm..........

USN CHIEF
03-10-2009, 8:34 PM
maybe i could convince the "boss" to let me get a mini 14 :D thats rational right? buy $800 rifle so i don't waste $25 of powder. hmmmmm..........

Why tell her:D Just do it.:43:

4literranger485
03-11-2009, 7:35 AM
Why tell her:D Just do it.:43:

Well Chief, while your reloading tips are sound. Your marriage advice is horrible :D

cleanguy46
03-11-2009, 8:32 AM
Why tell her:D Just do it.:43:

Last time I took this kind of action....I got smoked! :( Remember if the wife aint happy.....well you know the rest.

Darklyte27
03-11-2009, 8:33 AM
3300 fps doesnt sound too crazy, chief is using 25 grains.
I remember seeing shelf ammo is around 3200 fps
jicko, remember this is .223 ammo not .308

heres an example of some 62 gr 855 ammo thats getting around 3100 fps
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8495&dir=18|830|845

Chief I bet you could use 24-24.5 grains and still get good results and even save more powder for more loads.

if you get a rifle, be sure to get something for her too, and I dont mean a gun, you must pay in full for her item dont leave her hanging to pay a portion, such as a coach purse or something..
worked for me.. about 5 times.. haha

Rule .308
03-11-2009, 9:00 AM
Try this...
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Also, you can use the load in your manual that's for a 55gr bullet, it doesn't have to be the exact bullet your using as long as its the same weight, just start off with the min load and work up.

While that may work in some instances, it will not work in all instances. It is entirely possible to have two bullets of the same weight that have completely different bearing surfaces on the bullet. The bullet with the greater bearing surface will create higher chamber pressures in order to push it down the barrel. There was an article in one of my shooting mags by written by a fellow that worked for Barnes, the condensed version was some guy was using Barnes bullets with reloading data for some other brand of bullets that were the same weight as his Barnes projectiles. Because of the increased bearing area of the Barnes bullet he was popping primers out of his casings due to over pressure. When he consulted the correct Barnes manual he found that he was way over on the powder charge.
If you look in your reloading manual you will often find different data for different bullets of the same weight, like 148 gr jacketed bullets versus lead bullets. I myself am guilty of doing the same thing and it has never been a problem but it is surely something that you should consider.

xxdabroxx
03-11-2009, 9:50 AM
I think the issue with the lead vs jacketed is that the lead seals around the rifling in the barrel better, thus creating higher pressures. I couldnt see much difference between a jacketed bthp and a jacketed hp. Mayebe a little bit, but not nearly the difference between jacketed an non-jacketed.

DB2
03-11-2009, 11:21 AM
Here's what the Hornady book says.

#2267 BT-FMJ w/c .224 55 grain bullet.
C.O.L 2.200"

IMR 4198
17.4gr=2800fps
18.2gr=2900fps
19.1gr=3000fps
20.0gr=3100 (max load)

This is out of the newest Hornady edition. I have 250 more rounds loaded at 19.2gr with 4198. They work just fine out of my AR with a 20" barrel.

mif_slim
03-11-2009, 11:50 AM
3340!?!?!?!?!

That sounded WAY too hot!

What barrel? 24"??

Sierra shows 2800fps(probably low), but 3340fps seems to be too far off
http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf

Yeah, I was thinking the same. 3340 is really hot. Did you check your brass for pressure signs? At that high of a velocity, its gotta have at least flatten primers...but I could be wrong. I've loaded 26gr with 55gr but RL15 and Im getting about ~2900fps, but their diffrent powder.

OP: You can try AA2230, Im clocking in with 55gr 24.3gr @ 2985fps and good groups at 100 yards. I get better velocity with AA2460 though but Im out of those and dont have my book ready for numbers.

4literranger485
03-11-2009, 12:20 PM
Here's what the Hornady book says.

#2267 BT-FMJ w/c .224 55 grain bullet.
C.O.L 2.200"

IMR 4198
17.4gr=2800fps
18.2gr=2900fps
19.1gr=3000fps
20.0gr=3100 (max load)

This is out of the newest Hornady edition. I have 250 more rounds loaded at 19.2gr with 4198. They work just fine out of my AR with a 20" barrel.

Awesome! that is the exact data i was looking for. Much appreciated :thumbsup: