SF Gay Pride Parade.

[nicki]

Every year San Fran has their Gay Pride parade, about 500,000 people attended last year.

Considering how wonderful San Fran has been to gun owners, especially their politicians, I thought that it would be nice to run a Pro Gun contingent right in the middle of their annual parade.

Although I would love to have open loaded carry, we probably won't be able to carry arms of any kind. However, we could carry signs, and banners, thus getting our Pro Gun message out.

I talked with my friend Tom who is the San Fran Pink Pistol coordinator and asked him to get details of what it would take to get a spot in the SF Pride Parade.

They got into the parade before, but it was only a handful of people, so it doesn't catch much attention.

I would like to do much bigger things, but in order to do so, planning has to be done ahead of time.

The big issue Tom was concerned about is some members of our contingent have to take a 3 hour class so that they can be safety monitors for the group, I guess that has to do with traffic.

We need one monitor per 8 people.

The more we put into this, the more we will get out. Ideally it would be great if we could get a business, to sponsor us with funds so we could do things up right.

The ideal would be to have a float with our message loud and clear.

If you wanted to send a Pro Gun message with a in your face message, participation in this parade would be best.

I realize that many of you would have issues with marching in the parade and if your conscious won't let you, I can respect that.

But the question everyone needs to ask, if not me, then who, becuase if you won't stand up, you can't expect others to either.

Nicki

[Soldier415]

Intriguing idea.

[B.D.Dubloon]

If that is anything like the Up Your Alley fair they have then no thanks. I'm all for letting folks live and let live but some behaviors should not be on the street, gay or straight.

[eflatminor]

This straight guy thinks that's a great idea.

"Straight but not narrow" would be my slogan! How one guy can look at another guy's butt and find love is beyond my comprehension. However, we desperately need to diversify our movement. Middle age, overweight white guys we have. People of color and other minorities WE NEED.

Imagine if African Americans across the land demanded their 2A rights. With the rampant white guilt in this country, we'd have national shall issue CCWs in no time. Every new gun law would be seen as repression (which they are), but this time the liberal press would agree. If Jessie says it's true, NBC will give him the lead...always. White men are just not allowed to be repressed in this country.

While not carrying the political clout of our fellow Black countrymen, ANY minorities that wish to help in the cause I think we should support. Count me in.

[CitaDeL]

I believe gays and lesbians (everyone for that matter) have the right to defend themselves with firearms. No one should be a victim of discrimination, violence and abuse.... so on that basis I support a 2A contingent in the parade.

However, without the element of open carry of genuine arms, I dont believe this would be sufficient to garner the attention 2A rights among the gay and lesbian communities deserve.

I would march- but it wouldnt be without demonstrating my lawful right to carry a handgun.

[CCWFacts]

If that is anything like the Up Your Alley fair they have then no thanks. I'm all for letting folks live and let live but some behaviors should not be on the street, gay or straight.

It's nothing like that. It's not like those street fairs (Folsem Street fair also). It's more of an ordinary parade, of gay people.

It's fun, too. I might be up for going, depending on if I have time.

[eflatminor]

CitaDel brings up a good point. Why not UOC during the parade? Now that would get people's attention. If overly hasseled by the SF police, I suspect membership in the Pink Pistols would go through the roof...and that's a good thing for our cause.

[socal2310]

Don't forget Pink Duracoat Glocks (http://cdn.mqstatic.com/files/gunslot/imagecache/full/images/38360.jpg).

Ryan

[mtptwo]

Contact the Pink Pistols and ask if they can help you get into the Parade. I am certain that they will be willing to help you out.

[bwiese]

UOC might take a ton of planning - schools etc along route.

But having a pro-gun contingent of representative folks certainly can help and can't hurt.

[nick]

I don't live in SF, otherwise I wouldn't mind participating. It is agood idea, Nicki brought it up before, as well, I believe. I'm surprised Pink Pistols aren't more common in the gay community though. Looking at places like West Hollywood, you'd think they need the protection quite a bit (no, West Hollywood isn't safe for gays).

[JB-Norcal]

I would not be surprised if there is some kind of city ordinance that would restrict signage that even showed a picture of a gun. Gun=Bad=Hate=Violating Civil Rights.
I grew up around there and can't imagine going back, even to visit.

[PatriotnMore]

I think if the Gay community wants to show support for the second amendment, its a win/win.

Nicki, if this is a dual issue of importance for you, I would encourage you to just organize it. You may not have a large following at first, but like all political issues, some take more time to rally people, than others.

[Beelzy]

It's nothing like that. It's not like those street fairs (Folsem Street fair also). It's more of an ordinary parade, of gay people.

It's fun, too. I might be up for going, depending on if I have time.

Whoa Partner!!!

Have you been to one lately?? Definitely NOT a place to take the family.

I made a mistake and tried going to Fisherman's Wharf the same day as that
Parade, and was privy to two men wearing Indian Headresses just like that dude from the Village People.

The problem for my wife,myself and 4 kids was that is ALL thay were wearing!

:eek:

[Geodetic]

Sounds like a good idea to me... theres gotta be multitude of jokes when talking about unloaded open carry at a gay pride parade. More power to 'em.

[gose]

UOC might take a ton of planning - schools etc along route.
But having a pro-gun contingent of representative folks certainly can help and can't hurt.

Yeah, considering the number of schools in SF, I seriously doubt it can be done.

[Californio]

The problem with adding the 2nd amendment to the Parade is this.

I believe in Decorum. I don’t care who you are but decorum is required in Public places, what you do in Private places is your business.

I understand Decorum is thrown out the door by many in this parade; I cannot take seriously any agenda were decorum does not exist in public.

All were asked to dress the part for the Nordyke Case, no jeans etc. You need to look and act the part for people to take you seriously on important issues.

I don’t think mixing the Parade and the 2nd Amendment will be understood by the non-liberation members of the Gay Community and who is going to be paying attention to your 2nd Amendment group when the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are hamming the crowd in front of your group on the parade route.

Its not the correct venue.

[bwiese]

The problem with adding the 2nd amendment to the Parade is this.

I believe in Decorum. I don’t care who you are but decorum is required in Public places, what you do in Private places is your business.

I understand Decorum is thrown out the door by many in this parade; I cannot take seriously any agenda were decorum does not exist in public.


Your perception of decorum is one for your area and not in this area - "know your audience". The parade is generally broadcastable and is tamer than other such 'ultra-SF' events.

If it's good enough for the Mayor of SF+ board of Supervisors to attend, it's good enough for Pink Pistols to tastefully advocate RKBA freedoms.

[CCWFacts]

Your perception of decorum is one for your area and not in this area - "know your audience". The parade is generally broadcastable and is tamer than other such 'ultra-SF' events.

Oh yes. Some other SF events are, indeed, absolutely obscene and shocking to non-locals. The Parade isn't like that; the mayor etc are in it every year. Yes, Parade day is a big party day and some of these parties are "ultra-SF" and maybe not as discretely indoors as they should be. But SF can be like that.

If it's good enough for the Mayor of SF+ board of Supervisors to attend, it's good enough for Pink Pistols to tastefully advocate RKBA freedoms.

Yeah.

Btw, the parade is heavily regulated. They have a long long list of rules for parade participants and I would assume that "no weapons" are part of the rules. But I could be wrong; someone would have to check on that.

[Meplat]

UOC might take a ton of planning - schools etc along route.

But having a pro-gun contingent of representative folks certainly can help and can't hurt.

I'm not sure it can't hurt, given the latitude of creativity that could be applied to it's depiction in the MSM.

That aside. Could the "school zone" problem be overcome by having NO ammo, mags, cylinders, or having other disabling parts missing. After all, this is not supposed to be actual effective UOC, all you need for show is a grip sticking out. How about non-gun replicas? There has to be a point somewhere, even if we had to go all the way to empty holsters. I have some big, black, flap top military holsters that look like they are full even when empty, that would make DI FI wet her pants.:43:

[bwiese]

I'm not sure it can't hurt, given the latitude of creativity that could be applied to it's depiction in the MSM.

I think the MSM would be torn.

We need things like this to befuddle them and their "guns are for old white male rednecks" concepts.

[Meplat]

I think the MSM would be torn.

We need things like this to befuddle them and their "guns are for old white male rednecks" concepts.

You have a point there.

As to the second question; can one of our knowledgable members help me with that? If I have a stripped down bare frame in a school zone am I in violation?

:confused:

[sfpcservice]

Ideally it would be great if we could get a business, to sponsor us with funds so we could do things up right.

The ideal would be to have a float with our message loud and clear.



Anybody talk to City Arms in Pacifica? I hear their commercialsd on the radio all the time, maybe they'd be interested?

[CCWFacts]

That aside. Could the "school zone" problem be overcome by having NO ammo, mags, cylinders, or having other disabling parts missing.

I haven't researched it, but my intuition is that the parade route probably doesn't go through a lot of school zones, if any. It's going down Market Street. I can't think of any schools along that route. It may be one of the few places in SF that's not littered with school zones, because it's such a non-residential area.

How about non-gun replicas?

I think that non-gun replicas may be legally worse than real unloaded guns.

There has to be a point somewhere, even if we had to go all the way to empty holsters.

Empty holsters are totally fine.

Brainstorming: one possibility for dealing with possible school zones along the route would be to carry a suitable locking case. Just before entering the mass-murder-friendly-zone, remove the holster from the belt and put the holster (with the gun inside) directly into the locking box and lock it. My idea is that by putting the holster into the box, you avoid having to handle the gun, which could be brandishing.

I guess some other alternative (but one which would take some more doing) would be some type of clever locking box that can go over a holster, without necessitating the holster to be removed or handled. To be legally perfect, the over-holster-case should have a transparent side, so the gun is never concealed during the locking, and then a "shutter" of some kind should render the gun non-visible after the case has locked, so there is never an instant where the gun is neither openly in a holster and also not in a locked opaque case.

[nicki]

I talked with Tom of the SF Pnik Pistols and we are going to start the paperwork.

Here is the gig, many members of the Pink Pistols, especially in San Fran are in the closet about being gun owners from other gays.

This is also true of Gay Republicans. That being said, the goal is to send a in your face message to San Fran.

If we are large enough, potentially it could get media attention since it would be a conflict and controversial group.

There are also other issues, like if we are denied, possible first amendment issues, if we are attacked on the route, well that is why we need to have video tapes.

San Fran prides itself on being a "tolerant city". Well, we can see how "tolerant" they really are.

In the Civil rights era there are newsreels of racist southern cops attacking peaceful protesters and things like that shifted the American Conscious.

It is kinda hard to complain about being a victim of violence and intolerance if you practice it yourself.

Either way, it is a win win for us. If we are booed and other things, San Fran is shown as intolerant and that is news because it is controversial.

If we get a neutral or even positive response, it is news because if Gun Control isn't a super winning issue in San Fran, it may cause others to think otherwise.

How many gun owners are there within a 2 hour drive of San Fran. If we can't find 100 who would take a day to march under the Pink Pistol flag we are in serious trouble.

This is not a family event guys, we are at War to protect not only our gun rights, but the other rights as well.

I went to Cinncinatti and to Phoenix to speak for the Pink Pistols, my associates in the Gay community thought I was nuts, that I would be in danger. They asked me about security.

I told them both states were shall issue and open carry and that I expected most of the audience would be carrying loaded guns just like I would.

Most of them had their eyes bulge:eek: when I told them that. They were surprised I came home alive, had a good time at both conventions by the way. Met alot of good people.

This is what I call Guerilla grassroots activism, sort of like "Special Ops".

I would like to make this more explosive that just the Pride parade.

Nicki

[Python2]

Find the remaining 99 Nicki, I will walk under the RKBA banner.

[nicki]

Guys.

I am getting details from Tom Boyer over in San Fran on fees and other things related to the parade.

The bottom line though is some legwork and planning needs to be done so that we will be most effective.

The Parade is last weekend of Jun, getting details, it will be either Sat or Sun.
That will be a full day commitment.

What I am looking for are people who can make some time committment pre parade, once I have details from Tom, I will have a better idea.

I work evenings, but I have taken time off last week of this month. What I am willing to do is meet with small groups, even dedicated individuals throughout the bay area so that we can make things happen.

I do have a daughter going to UC Davis, so I am even willing to make a detour and meet some of you guys in the Sacramento Area.

If we are large enough, we may be able to get some sponsorship, the firearms manufacturers are making alot of money right now.

I don't expect the NRA or the NSSF to jump on board, they are too bureaucratic to take fast action. However, some of the smaller firearms manufacturers CEO's might just say, what the hell, I want to stick it to San Fran.

If you want to bring it on to San Fran, lets work together.

Spreading Victim Disarmanent (VD) is something that we must not only stop the spread, but eliminate it at the source(San Fran, NYC, Chicago, Wash DC)

Have a Pink Pistol shoot in San Jose this Sunday Mar 15 from 11pm to 1am at 1580 south 10 street btw. You guys are welcome to come, not expecting a super high attendance this month. 22cal thru 45cal pistol cal only, no magnums, no hardball. Down the block from the gunshow this weekend.

Nicki

[oaklander]

I think the idea is great!

I like the idea of the Pink Pistols carrying BIG PINK papier-mâché pistols.

This gets the idea across, but isn't intimidating.

I would march in it.

Two snaps, waaay up!!!!

:D

[Racefiend]

I think the MSM would be torn.

We need things like this to befuddle them and their "guns are for old white male rednecks" concepts.

The only possible negative connotation I could see is something along the lines of: "fat white straight men infiltrate the gay parade to further their gun agenda." Some clever signs/slogans combining 2A rights with gay rights would easily thwart that attempt, though. Other than that, I don't see the MSM daring to portray the LBGT community in a negative light.

[Meplat]

OH GREAT! Now we have to figure out who is in which closet, and not blow their cover!:shrug::seeya::willy_nilly::rofl:


Question:

Whatever form of legale carry is decided on even if it's empty holsters, do you want to invite SFPD to check everyone out at the staging area or would it be better to just spring it on um. That could cause an incident along the parade route. Maybe that would be a good thing?:43:





I talked with Tom of the SF Pnik Pistols and we are going to start the paperwork.

Here is the gig, many members of the Pink Pistols, especially in San Fran are in the closet about being gun owners from other gays.

This is also true of Gay Republicans. That being said, the goal is to send a in your face message to San Fran.

If we are large enough, potentially it could get media attention since it would be a conflict and controversial group.

There are also other issues, like if we are denied, possible first amendment issues, if we are attacked on the route, well that is why we need to have video tapes.

San Fran prides itself on being a "tolerant city". Well, we can see how "tolerant" they really are.

In the Civil rights era there are newsreels of racist southern cops attacking peaceful protesters and things like that shifted the American Conscious.

It is kinda hard to complain about being a victim of violence and intolerance if you practice it yourself.

Either way, it is a win win for us. If we are booed and other things, San Fran is shown as intolerant and that is news because it is controversial.

If we get a neutral or even positive response, it is news because if Gun Control isn't a super winning issue in San Fran, it may cause others to think otherwise.

How many gun owners are there within a 2 hour drive of San Fran. If we can't find 100 who would take a day to march under the Pink Pistol flag we are in serious trouble.

This is not a family event guys, we are at War to protect not only our gun rights, but the other rights as well.

I went to Cinncinatti and to Phoenix to speak for the Pink Pistols, my associates in the Gay community thought I was nuts, that I would be in danger. They asked me about security.

I told them both states were shall issue and open carry and that I expected most of the audience would be carrying loaded guns just like I would.

Most of them had their eyes bulge:eek: when I told them that. They were surprised I came home alive, had a good time at both conventions by the way. Met alot of good people.

This is what I call Guerilla grassroots activism, sort of like "Special Ops".

I would like to make this more explosive that just the Pride parade.

Nicki

[Californio]

Your perception of decorum is one for your area and not in this area - "know your audience". The parade is generally broadcastable and is tamer than other such 'ultra-SF' events.

If it's good enough for the Mayor of SF+ board of Supervisors to attend, it's good enough for Pink Pistols to tastefully advocate RKBA freedoms.

Santa Barbara has a well established Gay population of rather straight laced affluent professionals as opposed to the Theatricals that SF gets all the press for, you would make a big splash in our Solstice Parade with all the progressive liberals in Santa Barbara. Our Mayor marries Gay couples etc. but would have a complete Cow over a Gay with a gun, as a Progressive Liberal she only recognizes selective parts of the Bill of Rights.

I would just hope that the Theatrics of the SF parade would not diminish your intent.

I don't know the North, so good luck.

[CCWFacts]

I would just hope that the Theatrics of the SF parade would not diminish your intent.

Yes, in fact The Onion had a funny article about Gay-Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28491), making exactly the point people here are talking about. The organizers of the SF Pride Parade do keep the parade itself mainstream enough that it attracts the city's leadership, plus lots and lots of mainstream corporate sponsors. If it's good enough for the supes, and The Gap and so on, it's good enough for us.

[DedEye]

I'd be in, what's the date?

[ZRX61]

Hordes of CalGuners all dressed up like the cowboy from the Village People & infiltrate the march...

But then I no one would notice if the gun was real or fake..

[ldivinag]

I don't expect the NRA or the NSSF to jump on board, they are too bureaucratic to take fast action.

why NOT ask the NRA...

time for them to see how much they can support ALL gun owners...

btw, isnt TOM a member here? tboyer???????

[meinbruder]

This has been an interesting thread and I’m pleased to see all the favorable responses. I’m a relatively new member so this is likely to be one of my first posts. I will be re-locating to the South Bay (LA/ OC) area at the end of March; needless to say leaving a variety of things in a sealed crate out of state does not sit well with me.

I don*t mean to quote the entire thread but there are a number of items for the possible participants to consider. I write with a little knowledge of the situation as I have just resigned from the Portland (OR) Pink Pistols as chapter director for the last four years and been the booster for the chapters Pride Presence. The Portland group has discussed many of the same issues as presented in this forum.

Hopefully, the original posters will recognize their comments.

Membership in the PP is quite rare among members of the gay community. The progressive liberal leadership of the gay community hates guns and WILL be prejudicial to the group*s presence. That’s not to say there are no gay gun owners, for the most part they are closeted on the topic of RKBA. I had to push for Portland members to attend.

Is the gay community showing support for the 2nd AMD a win/ win? Absolutely! Any group that overturns the stereotype of American gun owner should be welcome. Even the NRA mentioned the group last year in a positive light. Don*t ask, I don*t recall the issue of the magazine.

Any venue is the right one. If one is mindful of decorum and the exposure of children to it*s lack, then leave them at home. The appropriate dress for the event would be a tee-shirt showing membership in the group, pants, and sturdy shoes. A uniform shows solidarity, anyone marching in the parade should be prepared to at least buy a tee-shirt matching the rest of the group. A Brooks Brothers suit is not going to work at a Pride event.

The public can not be informed of a political movement if it*s left in the shadows. Yes, the non-liberating members of the gay community will pay attention. In fact, their jaw will hit the pavement. The friendly and un-decided members will slowly be brought around to the right side of the issue. It won*t happen in one year, maybe not even five; but, it will happen. In the last four years I have taken more than fifty people to the range, including a newspaperman who posted a very positive article, all from Pride exposure.

I would expect a no weapons policy to be in place for the SF event, there is one in place for the Portland Pride event even after four years of effort.

The MSM will not be torn; they will ignore the PP for the Parade and/ or festival. The MSM is not who needs to be befuddled, it*s the college, and younger, kids who have been indoctrinated to hate guns. Once the concept of *old male white redneck* is broken, they become very curious about RKBA.

On the topic of UOC, forget it. Not only will the SFPD be alarmed, the public, and organizers of the event will be in a panic. No, membership in the PP will not *go through the roof* if the people in the parade are *overly hassled* by SFPD. Most of the witnesses will be relieved at the police presence. The mere presence of a group will make an impression; the bigger the group, the bigger the impression. Should there be empty holsters? No. It admits there is no right to own a handgun. An empty holster only states that there is no right to carry in public. BTW, I do NOT advocate open carry, it dilutes the movement to push for *shall issue* on the CCL front. That*s just my opinion*, YMMV.

Papier-mâché, water-guns, air-soft, colored-cardboard, or anything meant to stylize a handgun will be seen as a joke and dilute the message. Not to mention earning a possible take-down by an SFPD officer; the more realistic it looks, the more likely the take down. Seriously, forget those pink Dura-Coat Glocks.

Being denied by the organizers is a possibility, attacked by the public is not. Any appearance of a weapon will bring a police response, or private security, and result in a negative response from the public. If this idea goes forward, everyone should plan on leaving the hardware at home. The idea is to make a political statement by solidarity, not by the presence of hardware.

A spokesman for the SF- PP should get involved with the planning committee for the event and attend any meetings the City of SF is involved in. Assure them both there will be no weapons present; the idea is to be a political group making an educational opportunity for visitors. Having people who can intelligently discuss the RKBA from a historical, cultural, and political basis at the booth would be a huge plus. The booth should run for both days, all day; it will need to be properly staffed at all times and having a couple of women will help more than can be imagined.

Tom, Nicki. Contact me, I*m not sure I can attend but at least I can offer advise on planning; PM me here. Tom, it*s been awhile since you*ve called.

[colossians323]

Anybody talk to City Arms in Pacifica? I hear their commercialsd on the radio all the time, maybe they'd be interested?


Is that a dildo in your avatar








J/K:D

[meinbruder]

You have no idea how close you are to one of the best ideas I couldn*t implement in Portland due to lack of commitment from members. People stepping out of the crowd to *join* the group on the fly would make a huge impression. I was only able to pull it off once and the crowd nearly fainted.

No, costumes are not required, but if one knows a buddy is going to step in, having a tee-shirt over the shoulder would be a great idea. Maybe roll it up in a back pocket?



Hordes of CalGuners all dressed up like the cowboy from the Village People & infiltrate the march...

But then I no one would notice if the gun was real or fake..

[Seesm]

I think it sounds pretty good....

[bruceflinch]

I'll march along! ( I might have to wear a nametag that says "Supportive Straight Shooter" or just SSS)

[Liberty1]

shotguns for the color guard?

[Boatz]

sounds good, Nicki (and I think meinbruder makes sense)

[Mulay El Raisuli]

I like the idea also. Getting to SF from Oceanside isn't easy for me, but I might be able to manage. Put me down as a possible.

I think meinbruder makes sense also.

Yes, we (or at least I) will need t-shirts. Say, ones that have calguns.net on the front, with 'straight supporter of self defense for all' on the back?

The Raisuli

[PatriotnMore]

This has been an interesting thread and I’m pleased to see all the favorable responses. I’m a relatively new member so this is likely to be one of my first posts.

First, welcome!
Second, that was an informative, and well thought out reply. Although the blending of Gay rights, with 2A rights has the potential to polarize on both sides of the isle. I feel I can say with some degree of certainty, the 2A side of the coin, certainly supports the Gays rights to protection, and gun ownership.

Just as the issue of main stream Gay acceptance has been a long and bumpy road, to get where it is today, I think PP is on the right track, in claiming the rights for equality, and affirming their 2A constitutional rights, at the same time.

[tonelar]

There should be a Pink Pistol contingent in the bike parade as well. I believe that's on Saturday a couple of my local friends always ride in it.

[PatriotnMore]

I'll march along! ( I might have to wear a nametag that says "Supportive Straight Shooter" or just SSS)

That Sir, is a brilliant idea.

Having two shirts, pink for gay, white for straight, claiming "Supportive Straight Shooter", would allow the each to participate based on their moral convictions, and stand united in their 2A support of each other. In addition, it is a cross marketing win/win.

Great idea,

[eflatminor]

That really is a great idea. I've said "Straight but not narrow" in the past but for an outing like this, "Supportive Straight Shooter" is a great slogan...for us heteros anyway.

[PatriotnMore]

That really is a great idea. I've said "Straight but not narrow" in the past but for an outing like this, "Supportive Straight Shooter" is a great slogan...for us heteros anyway.

Actually, having your saying on the back of the tee, would be equally nice to see.

[Mazilla]

PatriotnMore;2151230] I feel I can say with some degree of certainty, the 2A side of the coin, certainly supports the Gays rights to protection, and gun ownership.


Does any majority really dispute the rights of gay gun ownership? I've never in my life heard(or read) anybody make a statement against gay gun ownership. Unless it's some real problem I don't see the point of mixing the two battles, it seems like the gays have enough work ahead of them already.

Forgive my ignorance if it's an issue, I spend a lot of time living under this rock. :sleeping:

[wolf13]

Actually, having your saying on the back of the tee, would be equally nice to see.

I think that combo would make a great shirt!

[PatriotnMore]

Does any majority really dispute the rights of gay gun ownership? I've never in my life heard(or read) anybody make a statement against gay gun ownership. Unless it's some real problem I don't see the point of mixing the two battles, it seems like the gays have enough work ahead of them already.

Forgive my ignorance if it's an issue, I spend a lot of time living under this rock. :sleeping:

Respectfully, I think you miss the point here, or I am.:D Well let the OP chime in if I have it wrong. I don't think the point is/was whether 2A people don't support their right to ownership, but how to bring the two side of the issue together. This seems to be an important issue to the OP, as I have seen it mentioned in more than one post by them.

For the purposes of support from the straight 2A side of the isle, were discussing how we could stand in support of our issue, and theirs at the same time.

[Palindari]

Any venue is the right one. If one is mindful of decorum and the exposure of children to it*s lack, then leave them at home. The appropriate dress for the event would be a tee-shirt showing membership in the group, pants, and sturdy shoes. A uniform shows solidarity, anyone marching in the parade should be prepared to at least buy a tee-shirt matching the rest of the group. A Brooks Brothers suit is not going to work at a Pride event.


Drats that killed my "decorum" suggestion - come dressed in suits wearing Ray Bans - a "Men In Black" theme ;)

If this gets off the ground I'll do my best to attend :D

[gunsmith]

oops cap lock sorry!

count me in, great idea.
I'm not gay but Pink Pistols is a top notch org

[meinbruder]

Hello Patriot, thank you for the welcome. The original concept of the Pink Pistols is that armed gays don*t get bashed; it could be said that self protection and gun ownership is central to the intent of the group. The idea started with the Mathew Sheppard case and has steadily grown into a national movement. There are now forty-five chapters across the nation, all of which are run locally by members; it’s a rather loosely run organization. Officially gender and/ or orientation is irrelevant. *Straight but not Narrow* is just as welcome as anyone across the queer spectrum, the only qualifying requirement is for RKBA to be the focus.

All due respect but I have to disagree with you on one point. There should only be one tee shirt worn by everyone marching in the parade. A uniform shows solidarity, it shouldn’t be diluted by differentiation. The PP National group might be able to provide artwork and the best presentation would be on a black tee-shirt, the slogan is *Pick on someone your own caliber.* I have a contact that might be able to help with distribution of buttons to signify SSS or SBNN but as a group a uniform shirt would be the best presentation. If the idea is to march as a group in support of the Second Amendment, it would really be well advised to have everyone wearing the same shirt.

I should point out something, at the risk of being redundant; the PP welcomes anyone interested in protecting the Second Amendment, straight but not narrow is a significant portion of the existing membership. By aggressively *recruiting* minorities into the fight for RKBA and welcoming everyone regardless of differences, the gunny*s in this country will demonstrate true equality. Isn*t that what the Constitution is all about?

Mazilla, I don’t like to single out anyone for a comment but the concept of gun ownership isn’t denied to anyone in the country for being gay. The issue is to bridge the gap between two groups of society which would not normally be in agreement on societal issues. As far as I*m concerned the RKBA takes precedent and everyone of a rational mind should be in agreement in spite of other differences.

[meinbruder]

Hello GunSmith

If you are who I think you are, we are nearly neighbors for next the couple of weeks. I also know a life member of the NRA who is gay. Thank you for your comment.

oops cap lock sorry!

count me in, great idea.
I'm not gay but Pink Pistols is a top notch org

[PatriotnMore]

All due respect but I have to disagree with you on one point. There should only be one tee shirt worn by everyone marching in the parade. If the idea is to march as a group in support of the Second Amendment, it would really be well advised to have everyone wearing the same shirt.

I agree on all points. My thoughts were what will help you, to get the support from the straight side of 2A but, I did not mean to imply anyone is looking to change the look of the organization.

I should point out something, at the risk of being redundant; the PP welcomes anyone interested in protecting the Second Amendment, straight but not narrow is a significant portion of the existing membership. By aggressively *recruiting* minorities into the fight for RKBA and welcoming everyone regardless of differences, the gunny*s in this country will demonstrate true equality. Isn*t that what the Constitution is all about?

Yes, and the 2A people I know, are not concerned with the color of your skin, they are concerned with the values you bring concerning the constitution, and BOR, and support of it.

[nagorb]

I'm in:D I should be able to help with pre parade stuff depending on school but I will definitely be at the parade.

[nicki]

Alot of good ideas here, and more will come.

There is some legwork that needs to be done to make things work and I am hoping to find people in the bay area. I have already talked with Tom Boyer and we will figure out what needs to be done.

How big this thing gets is really up to not only just the gun community, but anyone who cares about freedom at all.

I actually like the idea of two tee shirts myself, one for the Pinks and one for the straight, but not narrow. This follows the model of PFLAG(Parents and Friends of Lesbian and Gays).

The implication of straights marching with us is similar to whites marching with blacks at the civil rights marches.

I dream big, if we have enough interest on our end, we should try and see if we can get some gun manufacturer(s) to sponsor a Pink Pistol Float.

I figure that there has to be at least one manufacturer who would like to really thumb their nose at SF. Besides, if they get free media expousre, they could wind up with increased sales.

Good participation means we will probably be able to have people follow our group with video cameras and we can do our own interviews and put them on you tube.

That is where we can have the real fun.

As far as the MSM. They use three criteria for stories.

Conflict, Controversy and Compassion. We got the first 2 taken.

I am looking to find some other things I can do to cause controversy before the parade. Ideally I would be known as someone already who creates controversy and that would draw the media on a slow news day like flies to ***t.

Nicki

[nicki]

Participation will determine what we can do.

I will respect people's time and money and work to make this as time and cost efficient to keep things reasonable.

If we have large participation, especially if we get industry support, we can also plan on having a large after the march party.

Nicki

[Tyler]

I will march for sure, and I know that I would be able to get at least 5 to 6 friends to march with me. Please PM me so I can be added to any mailing list or what have you.

-Tyler

[nagorb]

I wonder if Barrett would be a possibility he already said **** California government once.

[VW*Mike]

I would say WE should support the GAY community and help THEM out with their struggle for rights which I believe in anyway (since prop 8 didn't pass, me and my fiancee will have to get married when she quits her job to do her internship at the hospital so she can have benifits). Whether you agree with their lifestyle choice is your own thing, rights are rights. IF we show up and be a problem at their parade, that won't look good on us. IF we show up and say gun owners believe in equality and equal rights and are also normal people and not thugs from Oakland, maybe we can forge and alliance then we have a better voice. Funny, 2 out of my 3 gay friends are HUGE gun nuts. One male, one female and she is a licensed instructor!

[pingpong]

I've got a handful of friends and coworkers (gay and straight alike) already participating in the parade, and I would definitely be interested in joining for 2A.

[TommyGun]

I'll definately be there to march if it comes together. The plan sounds good.

[wildhawker]

If anyone wants custom shirts made, contact Can'thavenuthingood or see www.gunsr4.us; he can have just about anything made up (one-off or smaller runs) with some pretty amazing results.

Proceeds go to CGF, so even more reason to get your order in ASAP. :D

[1859sharps]

This idea has the same risks that the "million gun owner march" idea has. However, unlike the million march, this one might just work about better if planned carefully.

I know some have brought up the possibility of carrying guns...not sure that is a good idea at this time. Be sides, wouldn't it be better to not have guns on you and when asked explain that it's illegal. Yes, I know about UOC, but UOC has zero self defense value. The two types of effective self defense carry are loaded concealed, and loaded exposed. and are both effective illegal in SF. I would push those points rather then try and find away to go "armed".

The second thought I had is all participants should be trained/drilled how to talk to the media effectively. The media looks for quick sound bites. That is how you should talk to them and then have a designated person who can expand on questions.

just my .02 cents (adjusted for inflation of course)

[USMC VET]

I would do it!! with a blindfold on :)

[wildhawker]

The Calguns booth and events crew is throwing our hat into the ring. I have contacted Nicki to open the line of communications for planning and logistics. Let's see what sort of a positive impact we can make when we're not preaching to our own choir.

[rrr70]

Maybe instead of UOC it will be better to wear an empty holster and a t-shirt with text like "I wear empty holster because my government doesn't wan't me to defend myself" or something similar.

[1859sharps]

Maybe instead of UOC it will be better to wear an empty holster and a t-shirt with text like "I wear empty holster because my government doesn't wan't me to defend myself" or something similar.

Perfect... I think that would have more impact then an actual gun on your hip.

UOC = "what rights have been lost, I see a gun on your hip"

empty holster = "we lost rights, we want them back"

If participation in the parade actually happens, I would suggest targeting one small part of 2nd rights issues, say ccw and self defense. having people walk the parade with a gun on their hip weakens the point that in reality we have lost the right to protect our self out side our homes.

providing the correct visually image is very important to the mesg. If the message is we have lost rights, a gun in a holster on the hip does not paint that picture.

[wildhawker]

How about a banner with "Marriage and Self-Defense: Two Rights Californians Don't Have" with an empty pistol and broken rings?

[nicki]

Personally I felt the Gay community should have pushed for abolishing state issued marriage licenses rather than to push for Gay marriage.

I personally felt that the push for Gay Marriage licenses was viewed as making a mockery by many of their religous sacraments.

While I believe and support equal under the law, pushing Gay Marriage was a slap in many people's faces.

That being said, that banner would be welcome at the SF Pride, but may cause issues across the country should we get media exposure.

The Pink Pistols organization does not take a stance either way on Gay Marriage.

I like where you are going on tying rights together.

Keep up the good feedback, this is what we need.
Nicki

[Aleksei Vasiliev]

How about a banner with "Marriage and Self-Defense: Two Rights Californians Don't Have" with an empty pistol and broken rings?

That is an awesome idea. Might want to make the pistol obviously non-working, or just put the No symbol over both a pistol and a pair of rings.

[Mulay El Raisuli]

How about a banner with "Marriage and Self-Defense: Two Rights Californians Don't Have" with an empty pistol and broken rings?


Maybe a good idea for the parade in general, but I intend to be there for the 2A, NOT to say anything about Prop 8. Mostly because I supported Prop 8.

The Raisuli

[wildhawker]

Maybe a good idea for the parade in general, but I intend to be there for the 2A, NOT to say anything about Prop 8. Mostly because I supported Prop 8.

The Raisuli

Attaching one issue to another can be very effective in politics (but can cut both ways). Would a Prop. 8 supporter ready and willing to march in the Gay Pride parade retract their offer of support simply and solely due to a banner like this?

[Can'thavenuthingood]

Attaching one issue to another can be very effective in politics (but can cut both ways). Would a Prop. 8 supporter ready and willing to march in the Gay Pride parade retract their offer of support simply and solely due to a banner like this?

Calguns primary objective is individual gun rights regardless of orientation, religion, race or poltical persuasion.

If its a quilting bee parade or Mummers or Gay Pride the 2A is probably taking a back seat since there are those of those clubs which are anti gun rights.

Calguns show booths are aimed at creating a public awareness of what we are and what we are doing, not so much a recruiting effort.

So I'm thinking we just have a small contingent of Calgunners within the parade itself and not attempt to overtake the primary reasons for the event. We ought be subject to the hosts concerns and not overshadow it by making it about gun rights.

Just be there, we needn't make a statement as our presence will make the statement.

Vick

[wildhawker]

That is an awesome idea. Might want to make the pistol obviously non-working, or just put the No symbol over both a pistol and a pair of rings.

Great idea: clear and direct.

[wildhawker]

I think we agree here, although I tend to take a slightly different view of the recruiting angle. Every time we discuss Calguns or gun rights, we're either reinforcing or base or recruiting; we're selling a message, sometimes to ourselves, sometimes not, but always selling.

I'm not of the mind to go door to door per se, but if an opportunity to gain strength (financially or by sheer numbers) exists we should embrace it.

Each and every public appearance is a recruiting effort for RKBA- not necessarily for the site, although public opinion will be formed by the events and how we volunteers present the message and represent the Calguns community.

Not looking to twist arms, but definitely won't turn a sympathizer (or potential sympathizer) away either :D

This is where we get to attach our issue to the global event's issue of gay rights in the general context of fundamental and civil rights.

Calguns primary objective is individual gun rights regardless of orientation, religion, race or poltical persuasion.

If its a quilting bee parade or Mummers or Gay Pride the 2A is probably taking a back seat since there are those of those clubs which are anti gun rights.

Calguns show booths are aimed at creating a public awareness of what we are and what we are doing, not so much a recruiting effort.

So I'm thinking we just have a small contingent of Calgunners within the parade itself and not attempt to overtake the primary reasons for the event. We ought be subject to the hosts concerns and not overshadow it by making it about gun rights.

Just be there, we needn't make a statement as our presence will make the statement.

Vick

[atek3]

I think this is an awesome idea. It would serve two great purposes 1) Educate LGTB that all gun owners aren't homophobes and 2) Blow the public's mind by seeing two groups that are supposed to hate each other, together.


Great poster idea:
"How about a banner with "Marriage and Self-Defense: Two Rights Californians Don't Have" with an empty pistol and broken rings?"

You could do the pistol with a bent barrel. Or simply a "No" symbol through a handgun, and a "No" symbol through the two male and two female symbols.

atek3

[1859sharps]

keep the two issues separate. you don't want to drown out one with the other.

[bwiese]

keep the two issues separate. you don't want to drown out one with the other.

True. Basic concept is that there are 'nontraditional' folk who need/support RKBA and that not all RKBA supporters are old closed-minded white males.

And do NOT speak for the NRA. If asked, the only answer is, "It seems to me the NRA supports RKBA for all people regardless of background".

[DDT]

keep the two issues separate. you don't want to drown out one with the other.

+1,000,000

"ALL people deserve ALL of their Civil Rights"

[n6nvr]

So along the line of publicity and presentation, has anybody thought of a group in the Doo-Dah Parade in Pasadena.

[marshaul]

I live in SF, so I'll march for sure.

[Mulay El Raisuli]

Attaching one issue to another can be very effective in politics (but can cut both ways). Would a Prop. 8 supporter ready and willing to march in the Gay Pride parade retract their offer of support simply and solely due to a banner like this?


Yes. I have no problem marching in support of the Right of ALL to be safe. I don't have to agree with anything else the LBTG community endorses or believes. Just that they have a right to be safe.

Your proposed banner has me saying that not only do I believe in the Right for ALL to be safe, but that I believe that gay marriage is also a Right. Well, I don't believe that. I'm also kinda firm in that belief & will not march under any banner that says different.

Its also contrary to the original idea. Which I thought was that in spite of our different beliefs, we agree on one thing. Let us then keep our other beliefs separate & keep our banner topic limited to the one thing we do agree on.

The Raisuli

[wildhawker]

Yes. I have no problem marching in support of the Right of ALL to be safe. I don't have to agree with anything else the LBTG community endorses or believes. Just that they have a right to be safe.

Your proposed banner has me saying that not only do I believe in the Right for ALL to be safe, but that I believe that gay marriage is also a Right. Well, I don't believe that. I'm also kinda firm in that belief & will not march under any banner that says different.

Its also contrary to the original idea. Which I thought was that in spite of our different beliefs, we agree on one thing. Let us then keep our other beliefs separate & keep our banner topic limited to the one thing we do agree on.

The Raisuli

I'll defer to Nicki on how she'd like to handle the event, I was simply offering suggestion.

[Mazilla]

Would a Prop. 8 supporter ready and willing to march in the Gay Pride parade retract their offer of support simply and solely due to a banner like this?


I would assume so, after all, a prop 8 supporter marching under a banner like that would make that person a hypocrite. IMO I dont see why any prop 8 supporter would march in the gay pride parade to begin with, the entire event is aimed at gay marriage(i'm sure there are other agendas as well), so there's your banner right there.

[blackbox]

Your proposed banner has me saying that not only do I believe in the Right for ALL to be safe, but that I believe that gay marriage is also a Right. Well, I don't believe that. I'm also kinda firm in that belief & will not march under any banner that says different.

Have you ever been to a Gay Pride parade? I'd recommend you sit this one out... Seriously. If you open your mouth in public there you'll do damage to the (pro-gun) cause.

I really like the idea of linking the two in a banner. The whole parade is going to be pro-LGBT rights already, everyone marching and 99% of those watching will be anti-8, and showing the parallel to gun rights could be a very powerful PR move for us.

[yellowfin]

snip
Then visiting the Keebler and Little Debbie plants is not for you.

[Vinz]

uuuummmmm Keebler chocolate chips.....

sorry. I think its a fabulous idea but its a pride parade. It should be separate...another note. Average gun owners and same sexers don't mix...thanks for the example No Smoke...I bet you wouldn't mind being around the Diva Divers though, right?


I wouldn't want to take away from the message the parade resonates. A "Gays for guns" section might not ruffle any feather boas.

j/k very open minded and live and let live.
vinz

[wildhawker]

snip

So, then, we'll see you there?

If the above is a typo and you meant what I think you do, keep it to yourself. Everyone can feel how they wish, but disrespect of this sort is uncalled for and reflects poorly on this community.

[PatriotnMore]

Then visiting the Keebler and Little Debbie plants is not for you.

:rofl:

[wildhawker]

Spewing hurtful insults at the gay community in a thread seeking to establish a coalition for the Gay Pride Parade is not appropriate or acceptable.

I believe I qualified the comment with
If the above is a typo and you meant what I think you do

If the OP of the comment meant what he wrote, then the egg's on my face. I'll apologize and put $20 in the curse jar.

I have no qualms with people's personal opinions; when they cross the line into personal attacks, they should be kept off the boards for many reasons. We have no freedom to say whatever comes to mind on these forums; there are rules.


*sent via PM
.

Indeed, like telling people to keep their opinions to themselves unless it reinforces our own. In this is case it does, but lets not pay attention to what was ACTUALLY written and attack the op on the possibility that they made the grammatical error that would make your statement relevant. :banghead:

Making assumptions of this sort reflects poorly on this community.

[nicki]

Met with Tom Boyer this evening, I will be doing more posts.

I appreciate the support the board is showing, I realize there are some on the board that are "cold" to the project.

I respect their believes, still I view this as a opportunity for us to put our views in front of a very hostile group of the American population.

They have their prejudices about us, perhaps we will help break some of those stereotypes by our presence.

We are embassadors and everything we do to break negative stereotypes only helps us.

Nicki

[wildhawker]

We are embassadors and everything we do to break barriers and promote positive stereotypes only helps us.

Fixed it for ye ;)

[colossians323]

snip

Isn''t there some sort of rule about engaging in a name calling fest??????

Obviously the comment that caused this quote was just as uncalled for, but CSA, you have been around here for awhile, why do you find it necessary to engage in this type of behavior?

[CSACANNONEER]

Isn''t there some sort of rule about engaging in a name calling fest??????

Obviously the comment that caused this quote was just as uncalled for, but CSA, you have been around here for awhile, why do you find it necessary to engage in this type of behavior?

I just couldn't believe NoSmoke's attack on fellow 2A advocates. For the record, I didn't call him a name. I simply stated a fact. Anyone who is that close minded isn't too bright. But, yea, I stooped down close to his level in hopes that he could comprehend me.

[Pvt. Cowboy]

Spewing hurtful insults at the gay community in a thread seeking to establish a coalition for the Gay Pride Parade is not appropriate or acceptable.

Wait until you hear what sort of hurtful insults the Calgunners wanting to march in the SF Gay Pride parade will receive right before their proposal to join the festivities is denied. Or, if by some astonishing chance they make it in the parade, what sort of hurtful insults they'll receive on the parade route.

Oh, of course... Prove me wrong, but I think we'll all learn something from the outcome of this one.

[PatriotnMore]

Lets not go down this road. I think the intention of the march, and bringing together both sides of the isle, marching for 2A is fine.

Most who would march from here are not gay, that's not the issue. If you feel that strongly, don't march. However, don't thread crap here either.

[wildhawker]

Wait until you hear what sort of hurtful insults the Calgunners wanting to march in the SF Gay Pride parade will receive right before their proposal to join the festivities is denied. Or, if by some astonishing chance they make it in the parade, what sort of hurtful insults they'll receive on the parade route.

Oh, of course... Prove me wrong, but I think we'll all learn something from the outcome of this one.

I'm well aware of the potential, thanks; surely we'll all learn something, but it won't be how evil humanity can be- already well aware. I expect to be shot at by the other side; I don't expect our side to take aim at us as we gather to approach the battlefield.

snip

That's enough; if you have no intention of working with or for us, please leave the thread.

[DDT]

Wait until you hear what sort of hurtful insults the Calgunners wanting to march in the SF Gay Pride parade will receive right before their proposal to join the festivities is denied. Or, if by some astonishing chance they make it in the parade, what sort of hurtful insults they'll receive on the parade route.

I suggest you are the naive one if you really think that those planning to march aren't aware of the impact of their actions. However; the abusive and hateful acts of others does not mean that your behaving in the same way is acceptable. Especially true when you are spewing your vitriol at the same people who are trying to fight for your rights and are willing to stand in the (hopefully figurative) line of fire.

[GTKrockeTT]

keep this clean or it goes to the Black Hole.

[B Strong]

Wait until you hear what sort of hurtful insults the Calgunners wanting to march in the SF Gay Pride parade will receive right before their proposal to join the festivities is denied. Or, if by some astonishing chance they make it in the parade, what sort of hurtful insultsthey'll receive on the parade route.

Oh, of course... Prove me wrong, but I think we'll all learn something from the outcome of this one.

If a hurtful insult would turn you away from supporting the Second Amendment, what are you going to do if more than your feeelings are at risk?

Sign me up, I'm marching.

[Mulay El Raisuli]

Have you ever been to a Gay Pride parade? I'd recommend you sit this one out... Seriously. If you open your mouth in public there you'll do damage to the (pro-gun) cause.


Could explain how I could do that?



I really like the idea of linking the two in a banner. The whole parade is going to be pro-LGBT rights already, everyone marching and 99% of those watching will be anti-8, and showing the parallel to gun rights could be a very powerful PR move for us.


Actually, the whole parade isn't going to be "pro-LGBT rights." The whole idea of adding calguns to the mix is we're going to add the 2A to the mix. At least a little bit. Such was my thinking anyway. And is in support of that "little bit" extra that I volunteered to march, & only in support of that "little bit" extra. IOW, to express my belief that the 2A applies to everyone, including the LGBT community. Even if I don't agree with each & every little thing (or even anything else) they stand for.

So, if you want me to march in support of the 2A, I'll be happy to be there. Or anywhere else I can get to, for that matter. But, if you want me to march for the 2A and against Prop-8, I'll just stay home.

The Raisuli

[nicki]

If we are denied the ability to march in the SF Pride parade, that in itself may open up other opportunities.

Under such a action, I would hope that all of you would help get such actions exposed far and wide.

However, the Pink Pistols have marched in the pride parade before, the only issue really was that the group was small.

I don't expect that we will welcomed with "OPEN ARMS" in San Fran.

That is the point of the march, to ruffle feathers. The more childish they are, the better for us.

He who acts like a idiot, loses in the eyes of the public. I am hoping that we will have our march videotaped, so that if we get hassled or even attacked, San Fran's image of love and tolerance will self destruct in the process.

Nicki

[DDT]

Actually, the whole parade isn't going to be "pro-LGBT rights." The whole idea of adding calguns to the mix is we're going to add the 2A to the mix.

I don't think you say that the pro-2A marchers are not making an affirmative statement for gay rights too, afterall there is a reason it's called a "Gay Pride" parade.


So, if you want me to march in support of the 2A, I'll be happy to be there. Or anywhere else I can get to, for that matter. But, if you want me to march for the 2A and against Prop-8, I'll just stay home.


I agree that focusing on 2A rights for the gay community and leaving prop 8 and other issues to other activists.

[1859sharps]

I am thinking the last couple pages only reinforce the idea that IF this actually happens, we need to keep the 2nd amendment issue and the gay rights (ie marriage) issues separate.

The goal of a pro self defense, pro gun, pro 2nd amendment mesg is already been drowned out and the parade hasn't even started.

[Hopi]

I applaud this effort.

[Zebra]

Sad.
To quote pogo: "I have seen the enemy and he is us."
or how about:
"This is my rifle. This is my gun. This is for fighting. This is for fun."

And now I think I'll be there too.

Frank

[Hopi]

What motivates a post like this?

[CSACANNONEER]

What motivates a post like this?

He's either 12 years old or still in the closet.

[Kestryll]

A desire to not post anymore?
We'll see if we can fulfill that desire.

Think he'll be creeped out that I'm a guy and fulfilling his desire? :43:

[colossians323]

keep this clean or it goes to the Black Hole.

Did he say black hole??:eek:

[GuyW]

Anyone who is that close minded isn't too bright.

...

[Mazilla]

LOL, with all the MOD cut and paste I am having a hard time making heads or tails of WTF is going in this thread. :confused:

[wildhawker]

LOL, with all the MOD cut and paste I am having a hard time making heads or tails of WTF is going in this thread. :confused:

There will be some 2A supporters at the Gay Pride Parade, organized by Nicki.

That is the relevant part of this thread.

[CSACANNONEER]

There will be some 2A supporters at the Gay Pride Parade, organized by Nicki.

That is the relevant part of this thread.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Mulay El Raisuli]

I don't think you say that the pro-2A marchers are not making an affirmative statement for gay rights too, afterall there is a reason it's called a "Gay Pride" parade.


I think that many will take it that way. However, the only reason I plan to be there is support the 2A rights of the gay community. If anyone wants to 'see' more than that, I can't stop that. But, I won't add to the confusion by blatantly slamming something I believed in & voted for.


I agree that focusing on 2A rights for the gay community and leaving prop 8 and other issues to other activists.


That's all I'm saying.

The Raisuli

[PatriotnMore]

I think that many will take it that way. However, the only reason I plan to be there is support the 2A rights of the gay community. If anyone wants to 'see' more than that, I can't stop that. But, I won't add to the confusion by blatantly slamming something I believed in & voted for.





That's all I'm saying.

The Raisuli

I think that is fine. No one should be trying to force anything, on anyone. If you are marching simply to support gays rights to self defence, CCW, and overall 2A issues, that should be enough.

[DDT]

I think that many will take it that way. However, the only reason I plan to be there is support the 2A rights of the gay community. If anyone wants to 'see' more than that, I can't stop that. But, I won't add to the confusion by blatantly slamming something I believed in & voted for.


I understand. But your quote alone says it is 2A rights specifically for LGBT folks. Therefore it is, in fact, about "gay rights." The firearms community is a very diverse community and keeping it a "big tent" is important but many people seem to lose sight of the fact that the "big tent" needs to include those who are socially conservative too. That is one reason tht I advocated keeping the message about guns on target and leave Prop 8 and other issues to their special interest segments of the community.

If I were a strong prop 8 supporter I would also skip the event if the organizers chose to closely link the 2 rights.

[wildhawker]

It's clear that the only way to approach this is to keep it single-issue: RKBA.

I apologize for any confusion (and hostility) my suggestion of March 16 caused. Further, I appreciate the focus many of you have brought to this thread and effort.

Now that (I believe) the message has been clarified (2A), I would propose that this thread move back to its intended purpose: creating a powerful RKBA component for this event.

Nicki, please do chime in if I'm off base here.

[sanb909]

It's a pro-gun demonstration taking place within the context of gay rights in general.

It seems to me that you ought to be able to be straight and support the RKBA of gays without having to be sucked into the Prop 8 stuff if you don't want to be.

Personally, I voted against Prop 8 so the issue doesn't bother me, but it ought to be possible to separate one's views and march in good conscience in support of RKBA. The sooner the anti's split us up over other issues, the sooner they get what they want. Don't let it happen.

[Doheny]

Considering the shooting in Oakland, I wonder how good of an idea the parade involvement would be. I'm not sure they'd have a lot of tolerance for a gun group anytime soon.

[CitaDeL]

Considering the shooting in Oakland, I wonder how good of an idea the parade involvement would be. I'm not sure they'd have a lot of tolerance for a gun group anytime soon.

And they had tolerance for gun groups in the past? (Scoffs)

We must help disassociate criminal behavior from the possession of firearms- We cannot change the perception that guns cause crime by being 'secret' gunowners or being too fearful of what may not be accepted or who may be offended. Are you sensing some parallels here?

[edwardm]

More importantly, we need to associate gun ownership with minority empowerment. This is important regardless of whether the minority is founded on race, gender, orientation or any other distinct and distinguishing criteria historically used in furtherance of discrimination.

Gun control started as a way to control ex-slaves to keep them subservient to the entrenched political system. "Fear of revolt" is/was code for "fear of someone else having power in the system."

And they had tolerance for gun groups in the past? (Scoffs)

We must help disassociate criminal behavior from the possession of firearms- We cannot change the perception that guns cause crime by being 'secret' gunowners or being too fearful of what may not be accepted or who may be offended. Are you sensing some parallels here?

[nicki]

I will want to meet with people who have interest within the next two weeks.

The sad event that happened in Oakland will be a distant memory by June.

Self Defense for common criminals and criminal government will be the key values I would want to push.

The issue as I have always seen it is gun rights make sure we have the ablity to enforce all of our other rights.

The idea of a pro gun march in the city that is ground zero is something that will catch attention across the country.

Right now, my focus is to find organizers, leaders and foot soldiers.
Otherwise, all we will have is internet chatter.

The best defense for gun rights is to go on offense.

I consider this action like Gen Dolittle's bomber raid on tokoyo. This will disrupt the moral of our enemies big time.

Nicki

[nagorb]

pm me with info

[GuyW]

Self Defense for [FROM] common criminals and criminal government will be the key values I would want to push.


I know its an oversight