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View Full Version : AK's used in crime statistics


brian01tj
03-10-2009, 1:13 AM
Ok, so a guy at Turners (obviously a reputable source, lol) stated that "only one legally registered AK-47 has ever been used to commit a crime and that it was by a police officer"

Can anybody put some truth to this? I can see if maybe it was the only murder done by the actual legal/registered owner. But first, crime is such a general term and plus I don't see how it could have been the first legally registered AK used in a murder whether by the owner or by someone who stole the gun.

audihenry
03-10-2009, 1:27 AM
What about the NoHo shooters? IIRC, they were legal semi-autos converted illegally to full auto.

Dr Rockso
03-10-2009, 9:30 AM
I think he probably meant a registered NFA full auto.

Josh3239
03-10-2009, 12:24 PM
I doubt the NoHo shooters AKs were registered, I doubt they even bought them legally. Matasaraneu possibly could have, but I think both of them were felons before that big robbery.

I asked Bill about that on AR15.com and he told me that a permit for an NFA AK even for police officers is "unobtanium".

tsname
03-10-2009, 1:27 PM
I doubt the NoHo shooters AKs were registered, I doubt they even bought them legally.

+1

They're criminals. Do you think they're going to obtain all of their weapons legally? Do any criminals obtain any of their weapons legally? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question.

audihenry
03-10-2009, 2:49 PM
+1

They're criminals. Do you think they're going to obtain all of their weapons legally? Do any criminals obtain any of their weapons legally? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question.

Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.

tsname
03-10-2009, 3:00 PM
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.

Well, you've proven me wrong about that, I misread some of the earlier posts. :oops:

Going back to the OP, Turner's really isn't a great source of any information. Hell, not even gun shows from what I've overheard the last two times I've gone.

Casual Observer
03-10-2009, 3:15 PM
IIRC, only two crimes have ever been committed with registered NFA weapons since 1934- one of which was committed by a peace officer.

Dalton
03-10-2009, 3:19 PM
IIRC, only two crimes have ever been committed with registered NFA weapons since 1934- one of which was committed by a peace officer.

+1 to that.

B Strong
03-10-2009, 4:58 PM
Ok, so a guy at Turners (obviously a reputable source, lol) stated that "only one legally registered AK-47 has ever been used to commit a crime and that it was by a police officer"
Can anybody put some truth to this? I can see if maybe it was the only murder done by the actual legal/registered owner. But first, crime is such a general term and plus I don't see how it could have been the first legally registered AK used in a murder whether by the owner or by someone who stole the gun.

It wasn't an AK, it was an M11/9.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/searcy_v_dayton.txt

Edit - if you define crime as possession of a weapon, there have been instances where a registered NFA weapon or device was involved in a crime that didn't involve the use of the weapon in question. The one that comes to mind immediately is the individual who was being investigated for domestic violence. When contacted by the LEO's he had his (model and type escapes me) registered MG loaded and concealed under a blanket in the bedroom where he was found by the LEO's.

He was convicted on DV charges, but I'm unaware of what happened with the weapons charge.

AlexBreya
03-10-2009, 5:02 PM
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.

were they maybe stolen from someone? if they can't get it in the black market, they may have just stolen it.

B Strong
03-10-2009, 5:10 PM
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.


I'll go farther than that.

IIRC, the two actors in the noho shootout had an earlier contact with LE where they were found to be in possession of AK's that were confiscated and later returned by LE due to the fact that the AK's in question were not on the banned list in effect at that time. The actors were not in the prohibited class, so the rifles went back to the badguys.

Jonathan Doe
03-10-2009, 5:10 PM
The most common rifles iused in crime are SKS types and AK types. Most common rifle caliber used in crime are 7.62X39mm rounds. There are some AR types used in crime, but it occurrs less frequently.

stormy_clothing
03-10-2009, 5:12 PM
who cares anyway, a gun is a gun is a gun. AK47 doesnt mean its any worse or better.

It's probably because a real ak is too expensive, I'm sure ak "like" ect those numbers are higher same as any other gun.

Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.

Automatic weapons are more expensive to buy, converted ones less so I'm sure the black market whatever form that is the same applies. Heavy barrels and buffers and firing pins and selector switches and bolt carriers are all different in original weapons but not necessarily in conveted ones. In 1994 these weapons were not coming into the country like they are today it seems. One glance at the daily AFN reports shows truckloads of these weapons along with american currency. I guess Mac 10's and Uzi's maybe but not ak's

The weird thing about auto ak's seems to be that they really are coming from Mexico in large quantities, I only say this because I bought a cal legal one for my dad for his birthday last year and every single Mexican I know who has family there has told me they either have shot or know someone in there family that owns one full auto.

CSACANNONEER
03-10-2009, 5:12 PM
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.

Really? I would bet that they were not puchased legally. Instead, they were probably purchased on the black market, converted to FA and then, sold to the thugs that used them. But, what do I know? They also could have gone through an illegal arms broker or two along the way, as well.

audihenry
03-10-2009, 5:42 PM
The point is no one on this thread has any solid evidence backed up by fact. Which is a shame as it makes for good FUD for the anti-gun crowd.

Jonathan Doe
03-10-2009, 5:57 PM
The point is no one on this thread has any solid evidence backed up by fact. Which is a shame as it makes for good FUD for the anti-gun crowd.

What is the evidence you are looking for?

audihenry
03-10-2009, 6:43 PM
What is the evidence you are looking for?

Actual documents, real statistics, not I heard this and she said that.

tcrpe
03-10-2009, 6:56 PM
What was the clown in Alabama shooting?

pullnshoot25
03-10-2009, 7:10 PM
It wasn't an AK, it was an M11/9.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/searcy_v_dayton.txt

Edit - if you define crime as possession of a weapon, there have been instances where a registered NFA weapon or device was involved in a crime that didn't involve the use of the weapon in question. The one that comes to mind immediately is the individual who was being investigated for domestic violence. When contacted by the LEO's he had his (model and type escapes me) registered MG loaded and concealed under a blanket in the bedroom where he was found by the LEO's.

He was convicted on DV charges, but I'm unaware of what happened with the weapons charge.

Beat me to it.

Jonathan Doe
03-10-2009, 7:11 PM
How about I actually see them come through my office very often?

trashman
03-10-2009, 7:21 PM
How about I actually see them come through my office very often?

Just for grins and giggles, I'd be curious as to what the percentage is, and the total number (sample size). I seem to recall the oft-quoted FBI statistics showed AK-pattern rifles very, very low on the list (statistically speaking).

(I'm not trying to gainsay you -- just genuinely curious as to your experience!)

--Neill

Jonathan Doe
03-10-2009, 7:28 PM
I would like to say among rifles, maybe 40 -50% SKS type, 20-30% AK type, and rest are divided into some AR type, and 22 LR, some lever actions, and very few bolt guns. I never kept a track of them, and my office do not keep stat on the issue. As a matter of fact, one of the armored car robbery suspects used a OLL AR (I believe RRA) without mag lock w/ 6 positon stock, 10 1/2" upper and EOTech. A very nice rifle. I liked it.

trashman
03-10-2009, 7:30 PM
I would like to say among rifles, maybe 40 -50% SKS type, 20-30% AK type, and rest are divided into some AR type, and 22 LR, some lever actions, and very few bolt guns. I never kept a track of them, and my office do not keep stat on the issue. As a matter of fact, one of the armored car robbery suspects used a OLL AR (I believe RRA) without mag lock w/ 6 positon stock, 10 1/2" upper and EOTech. A very nice rifle. I liked it.

Interesting! How would it compare to "all guns" - i.e., handguns inclusive?

(I realize I'm starting to wander off topic, sorry...)

cheers
--Neill

Josh3239
03-10-2009, 7:41 PM
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.

Okay, I'll try this again.

Larry Phillips Jr was a felon and I believe Matasaranu was a felon as well. Would you care to explain how to felons can legally buy a rifle?

Chances are these guys bought some AKs that were either stolen or straw purchased, then illegally converted to automatic, and then sold.

MonsterMan
03-10-2009, 8:10 PM
I would like to say among rifles, maybe 40 -50% SKS type, 20-30% AK type, and rest are divided into some AR type, and 22 LR, some lever actions, and very few bolt guns. I never kept a track of them, and my office do not keep stat on the issue. As a matter of fact, one of the armored car robbery suspects used a OLL AR (I believe RRA) without mag lock w/ 6 positon stock, 10 1/2" upper and EOTech. A very nice rifle. I liked it.

Aren't .22's exempt from AW status (can have detachable mags and all the evil features)? Unless they are SBR's they shouldn't be in your office for examining right?