Los Angeles County Open Carrier Unlawfully Detained for an Hour [Archive]

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 08:24 AM

and his unarmed friend was detained for "guilt by association" :eek:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/22765.html

Our third experience we headed to Carrows in Cerritos. Only Indy was carrying. Long story short (hopefully he will post his soon). He was pulled out of Carrows by three officers, put in the back of the squad car, one of two there; and they took his ID, and checked the serial number on his handgun. While 2 more vehicles pulled up, one being a Sergant.

While he was being detained, I walked outside to make sure they weren't going to drive him down town. This is where Officer Peters(I beleive, she was the blonde Officer) and Officer Escobedo(Male,black haired Officer) watched me watch Indy.

Officer Peters Kept walking behind me, and reading my texts. I believe she was trying to intimidate me, while I kept an eye on 2 other officers inspecting Indy's firearm. Officer Peters kept trying to get information from me and all I gave her was my 1st name. She tried to have 'small talk' and I wouldnt have any of it.

No I didnt have my recorder on because it was dead, which is why I did not carry. Officer Atkins apporached me and asked for my full name and ID, I asked if I was being detained. He stated, "Yes". I had him state it twice for clarification then I procceded to ask why . He stated it was because I was with Indy. I was not aware I could be guilty of something for knowing someone. So I gave him my full name and date of birth. I really didnt have my ID. I didn't give him my address and he wanted to know where I worked and I didnt give him that either. Then Officer Atkins walks away from me leaving me without any officers there and I had to shout "am I free to go?" he said "yeah yeah" with his back turned to me.

I tried to get the conversation recored by calling someone's cell but it didn't go through for some reason. Oh well. As Indy was released he asked if there were any schools in the area. I dont know which officer he asked but they said "not that I'am aware of".

After the fiasco, I went back in to talk to the manager, Sandy. She said it was making the customers uncomfortable, so they called the police. He is welcome back just with no firearm. I grabbed her business card and left Cerrritos.

Overall Officer Atkins was being a hardass, Officer Peters tried to intimidate me and when that didnt work she tried the buddy-buddy thing, Officer Escobedo, talked a little. We talked about CCW and he seemed to be Pro-Gun and understood we could not get a CCW. The Sergant (female, never got her name) never approached me, but she looked pissed. And the other officer, who looked a little on the overweight side, couldn't figure out how to check a single action 22 revolver. It seemed he didn't even know how to operate the camera they used to take photos of Indy's handgun.

Time spent detained was about an hour.

FrankoUSA

03-09-2009, 08:55 AM

This is why we need those asian gang cards they pop out when cops want to talk to them.

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 08:58 AM

This is why we need those asian gang cards they pop out when cops want to talk to them.

Ok, who is our CGN asian gang contact ;)

FrankoUSA

03-09-2009, 09:00 AM

Ok, who our CGN asian gang contact ;)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=160590

:thumbsup:

maschronic

03-09-2009, 09:01 AM

and his unarmed friend was detained for "guilt by association" :eek:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/22765.html

oh man!! i know were that carrows is. if i would have known, i would have shown up with a camer to record the event.

Fjold

03-09-2009, 09:16 AM

So, do you know who to make the complaint to for illegal detention?

Rad'04

03-09-2009, 09:28 AM

BTW, Cerritos is LA county.

Typically patrolled by the LA Sheriffs

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 09:32 AM

BTW, Cerritos is LA county.

Typically patrolled by the LA Sheriffs

Someone should put a bunch of "Yes it's legal" open carry pamphlets (http://californiaopencarry.org/) in their lobby. ;)

http://www.ci.cerritos.ca.us/cityserv/publicsafety/index.html ;)

bwiese

03-09-2009, 10:01 AM

Someone should put a bunch of "Yes it's legal" open carry pamphlets (http://californiaopencarry.org/) in their lobby. ;)

http://www.ci.cerritos.ca.us/cityserv/publicsafety/index.html ;)

Guess I'll have to find out if these coppers have any illegal unregistered AWs.

:)

ChuckBooty

03-09-2009, 10:13 AM

I'm assuming he got his firearm back. What are your rights if a cop tell you that you are being detained? Can you then request a lawyer?

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 10:44 AM

I'm assuming he got his firearm back. What are your rights if a cop tell you that you are being detained? Can you then request a lawyer?

know your rights, flex your rights (http://www.flexyourrights.org/)

SteveH

03-09-2009, 01:00 PM

Why would someone UOC a single action revolver?

Wouldnt that be about the slowest possible option to load in the event the weapon was needed for self defense?

IGOTDIRT4U

03-09-2009, 01:11 PM

I hope you did not pay for your meal.

IGOTDIRT4U

03-09-2009, 01:13 PM

Guess I'll have to find out if these coppers have any illegal unregistered AWs.

:)

lol, go get 'em!!!

SgtDinosaur

03-09-2009, 01:57 PM

CSACANNONEER

03-09-2009, 02:06 PM

Why would someone UOC a single action revolver?

Wouldnt that be about the slowest possible option to load in the event the weapon was needed for self defense?

Have you ever seen a speed loader?

ke6guj

03-09-2009, 02:09 PM

Have you ever seen a speed loader?

yes, but most single-action revolvers I've seen are loaded one-at-a-time through the loading gate. Haven't seen a speedloader for that, although you could just use a tube feeder of some sort and just spin the cylinder around and let one round drop in at a time as each chamber comes by.

Yes, there are some single-action revolvers that have a swing-out cylinder and could be loaded with a standard speed-loader.

7x57

03-09-2009, 02:10 PM

Have you ever seen a speed loader?

Have you ever actually loaded a SA revolver?

7x57

CSACANNONEER

03-09-2009, 02:11 PM

yes, but most single-action revolvers I've seen are loaded one-at-a-time through the loading gate. Haven't seen a speedloader for that, although you could just use a tube feeder of some sort and just spin the cylinder around and let one round drop in at a time as each chamber comes by.

Yes, there are some single-action revolvers that have a swing-out cylinder and could be loaded with a standard speed-loader.

I'm at work and trying to read to fast. I completely missed the SA part.

7x57

03-09-2009, 02:17 PM

Yes, there are some single-action revolvers that have a swing-out cylinder and could be loaded with a standard speed-loader.

If the revolver in question has a swing-out cylinder, it isn't the "slowest possible option" now is it? ;)

Anyway, a SA isn't the slowest possible option by a long shot. I own a cap & ball revolver.....

I shot a small tactical course with a DA revolver over the weekend, I did alright but reloads killed me. I wondered afterwards if I could just strap on three or four C&B revolvers around my waist and shoot it that way, as a spare gun is the closest thing to a speedloader. Not too practical, but how often do you have an excuse to wear several guns?

That's if I could even get 'em all loaded in between stages. Doubtful....

7x57

Decoligny

03-09-2009, 02:23 PM

My only hangun for many years was a Ruger Blackhawk. I could cock it as it came out of the holster, and the muscle memory is still there today. I think you can get the first shot off as fast as anything else, but subsequent shots would probably be slower unless you have practiced a lot.

I don't think you understand the dilemma. With UOC = Unloaded Open Carry, and most single action revolvers have to be loaded one cartridge at a time, it is a much more time consuming process to load than say a revolver that can be loaded with a speed loader, or an autoloader where you just slap in the magazine and rack the slide.

Unless of course you have pre-loaded cylinders and can change out the entire cylinder all at once.

http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/UBERTI%20CARBINE/SWITCHING%20CYLINDERS.jpg

hoffmang

03-09-2009, 02:25 PM

Ok, who is our CGN asian gang contact ;)

I think his name is Iggy...

:iggy:

-Gene

wildhawker

03-09-2009, 02:45 PM

I think his name is Iggy...

:iggy:

-Gene

Zing!

SgtDinosaur

03-09-2009, 02:49 PM

I don't think you understand the dilemma. With UOC = Unloaded Open Carry, and most single action revolvers have to be loaded one cartridge at a time, it is a much more time consuming process to load than say a revolver that can be loaded with a speed loader, or an autoloader where you just slap in the magazine and rack the slide.

Unless of course you have pre-loaded cylinders and can change out the entire cylinder all at once.

http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/UBERTI%20CARBINE/SWITCHING%20CYLINDERS.jpg

True. I wasn't thinking in terms of reloading. I'm not sure that's a real horrible dilemma since most gunfights don't require a reload. But it would be pretty nasty if yours did. This is where a second handgun and/or some cover would come in handy.

Decoligny

03-09-2009, 02:52 PM

True. I wasn't thinking in terms of reloading. I'm not sure that's a real horrible dilemma since most gunfights don't require a reload. But it would be pretty nasty if yours did. This is where a second handgun and/or some cover would come in handy.

Well, since UNLOADED Open Carry is the only legal way for the majority of Californians to carry, getting off the first shot actually requires a reload since you are starting from empty.

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 03:13 PM

Guess I'll have to find out if these coppers have any illegal unregistered AWs.

:)

LASO for sure ;)

fairfaxjim

03-09-2009, 03:19 PM

Ok, who is our CGN asian gang contact ;)

I think his name is Iggy...

:iggy:

-Gene

Wow, the Igster seems to be having trouble holding on to a job of late - last I heard he was in the Bayview district. Maybe he could get us some of those cards printed with english on one side and chinese on the other, like they do business cards for guys doing business in Asia.

SgtDinosaur

03-09-2009, 04:45 PM

Argh. That is completely true, and a single action revolver would be the worst choice. Although I like the idea about popping in a cylinder, it would be a lot faster to jam a mag in and rack the slide. Never mind, it's just my alzheimers acting up again.

You know, I have never given much thought to UOC. This may be blasphemy, but it sounds like a great way to get shot.

Well, since UNLOADED Open Carry is the only legal way for the majority of Californians to carry, getting off the first shot actually requires a reload since you are starting from empty.

pullnshoot25

03-09-2009, 05:04 PM

Argh. That is completely true, and a single action revolver would be the worst choice. Although I like the idea about popping in a cylinder, it would be a lot faster to jam a mag in and rack the slide. Never mind, it's just my alzheimers acting up again.

You know, I have never given much thought to UOC. This may be blasphemy, but it sounds like a great way to get shot.

Or you can be an unwilling participant in a massacre.

SgtDinosaur

03-09-2009, 05:06 PM

Ford8N

03-09-2009, 05:07 PM

I don't think the cops really want to waste their time on Open Carry movement people. I would think they would rather be out bringing gangbangers to jail.

Then they should tell the Sheriff to start issuing CCW's.....problem solved.

Decoligny

03-09-2009, 05:15 PM

I have this funny feeling that the guy with the gun out in the open would be the first one shot in a massacre while he's trying to load his gun. Now loaded open carry makes a lot more sense to me.

While it does indeed make more sense, it is unfortunate that Unloaded Open Carry is the only legal way to carry for most in California.

I Carry a semi-automatic 9mm, and through practice, practice, practice, I can go from unloaded in the holster to in battery and ready to fire in approx 1 second.

While I would like to have that 1 second back for my advantage, it sure as hell beats not carrying and hiding behind a plant while some whack job picks off people at random.

And 1 second sure as hell beats the time it takes to go back to the car, get the gun out of the trunk, load it, and then try to defend yourself.

SgtDinosaur

03-09-2009, 06:30 PM

While it does indeed make more sense, it is unfortunate that Unloaded Open Carry is the only legal way to carry for most in California.

I Carry a semi-automatic 9mm, and through practice, practice, practice, I can go from unloaded in the holster to in battery and ready to fire in approx 1 second.

While I would like to have that 1 second back for my advantage, it sure as hell beats not carrying and hiding behind a plant while some whack job picks off people at random.

And 1 second sure as hell beats the time it takes to go back to the car, get the gun out of the trunk, load it, and then try to defend yourself.

I agree with you, however unfortunately in some situations you could get shot before you even see it coming (because of open carry). I suspect it (UOC) would be a deterrent more often than not, though. I also think we all agree that CCW is the sensible way for civilians to carry.

When I was stationed in Alaska (1975-77) I used to practice loaded open carry out in the woods. So did most other people, so no one blinked an eye. In Anchorage I carried concealed (when I carried at all) and never had any trouble whatsoever. No one ever noticed, to my knowledge, and I never had to use it. Same thing when I had a CCW permit in Georgia almost 20 years ago.

I applaud the guys who are out there exercising their constitutional rights. Let's hope that ultimately all of our 2cd amendment rights are restored. If you feel safer practicing UOC more power to you. Maybe I'll change my mind one of these days, but right now I still think I would feel like a walking target.

Meplat

03-09-2009, 06:33 PM

It's a real man thing. You wouldn't understand.:p

Why would someone UOC a single action revolver?

Wouldnt that be about the slowest possible option to load in the event the weapon was needed for self defense?

bwiese

03-09-2009, 06:35 PM

yes, but most single-action revolvers I've seen are loaded one-at-a-time through the loading gate. Haven't seen a speedloader for that, although you could just use a tube feeder of some sort and just spin the cylinder around and let one round drop in at a time as each chamber comes by.

Yes, there are some single-action revolvers that have a swing-out cylinder and could be loaded with a standard speed-loader.

Smith & Wesson 14-3 or any S&W modified into SA status to avoid Rostering concerns :)

Meplat

03-09-2009, 06:39 PM

Have you ever seen a single action revolver? Speed loaders would work on only a very few historical models and I doubt there are any produced for these variants.:confused:

Have you ever seen a speed loader?

GM4spd

03-09-2009, 06:45 PM

I'm at work and trying to read to fast. I completely missed the SA part.

Stop beating up on my TO neighbor!!!:D Pete

yellowfin

03-09-2009, 06:54 PM

Could Dr Susanna Hupp come help us out?

joeyriv

03-09-2009, 07:08 PM

I don't think the cops really want to waste their time on Open Carry movement people. I would think they would rather be out bringing gangbangers to jail.

Those of us that UOC wish they would be out doing this too. Maybe one day...

Kid Stanislaus

03-09-2009, 07:45 PM

I'm assuming he got his firearm back. What are your rights if a cop tell you that you are being detained? Can you then request a lawyer?

You can request a lawyer any time you want to. That does not mean you'll get one but you can always make the request just the same!:D

Kid Stanislaus

03-09-2009, 07:46 PM

Why would someone UOC a single action revolver?

Wouldnt that be about the slowest possible option to load in the event the weapon was needed for self defense?

Its not the SA revolver, its the UOC what's important.

Kid Stanislaus

03-09-2009, 07:48 PM

I don't think the cops really want to waste their time on Open Carry movement people. I would think they would rather be out bringing gangbangers to jail.

I think they'd rather find something SAFE to do, like hassel somebody who's audacious enough to UOC even though they know its legal as can be.

CitaDeL

03-09-2009, 07:52 PM

I have this funny feeling that the guy with the gun out in the open would be the first one shot in a massacre while he's trying to load his gun. Now loaded open carry makes a lot more sense to me.

I have a question:

What would a criminal with a 'massacre' in mind do if they encountered more than one guy carrying their gun out in the open? Who would they shoot first then?

SgtDinosaur

03-09-2009, 08:27 PM

Gee, I don't know. I have never 'massacred' anyone. If you're talking about a robbery scenario I think there is a good chance they would be deterred. If you're talking about a lunatic scenario I think there is a good chance someone would get shot. Maybe more than one someones.

Point taken though. I assume your point is that if enough people practiced unloaded open carry it would be a deterrant. Seems reasonable. Do you normally go everywhere with a group of armed people? Must be nice. I, on the other hand, have to work for a living.

I have a question:

What would a criminal with a 'massacre' in mind do if they encountered more than one guy carrying their gun out in the open? Who would they shoot first then?

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 08:37 PM

I assume your point is that if enough people practiced unloaded open carry it would be a deterrant.

UOC is not acceptable to ANY of us. Doing it is but holding the line and exercising what is allowable under current law. OCers in general support "Vermont" carry (meaning if you can own a firearm you can carry it, OC or CC, as both are the unregulated Right in that state).

IMO, OC is a visible deterrent for the here an now as I believe me and mine are safer when my "deterrent" is visible. CC is a general deterrent IF liberally permitted to occur in society and IF it is commonly know by criminals. Either way "Society is Safer" when the law abiding simply Carry :thumbsup:

SgtDinosaur

03-09-2009, 08:45 PM

Meplat

03-09-2009, 08:50 PM

If they are smart they will move on to easyer pickins. They don't know the single action is not loaded. And a loaded single action is as fast as any handgun to get into action. Faster than an auto with an empty mag well.

I have a question:

What would a criminal with a 'massacre' in mind do if they encountered more than one guy carrying their gun out in the open? Who would they shoot first then?

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 08:54 PM

Ok, I don't know how we got off on this massacre stuff. That's pretty rare. Here's a scenario that is closer to what I had in mind: You live in Vallejo (like me). One evening you walk into your local 7-11 with your shootin' iron on your hip. A couple of local San Quentin recidivists have just offed the clerk for the $62 in the cash register (huh, I think this happened recently). How good are your chances?

Or how about walking down the streets of Oakland with your unloaded firearm? How long do you think it would take for some of our fine, upstanding citizens to decide to call your play? You could only hope they decide you're a cop and it's not worth it. But some of them don't care. You're not in uniform. Do you feel lucky?

I'm not saying any of this stuff will happen. I'm saying it could happen, and that I'd rather be carrying concealed if it does. Which is still not ideal. Ideal would be an M1 Abrams.

All we have to go by is the experiences in other state where 1000's OC regularly where the gun grab or shoot me first scenario fears have not materialized.

And I do prefer cross draw personally. It can't easily be seen from or reached from behind or the sides and is much easier to reach when seated then strong side IMO (we spend so much time seated and in cars these days).

UOC does have it's obvious disadvantages (your unloaded). Right now 99.99% of the CA population doesn't know this so an openly holstered firearm I'm sure is viewed as loaded generally. And BGs don't want to mess with this IMO and would look for an easier target or wait until you left to do their deeds.

As for your first scenario this happened to an on duty Philadelphia Officer last year (God rest his soul). Any gun carrier, and especially OCers, need to not be in condition white and have a decent awareness of what is happening around them.

I'm very aware when I'm OCing but when I CC I'm in a much more relaxed state of awareness. So train, train, and train some more.

For the UOCer the first move should be to move, evade, find cover or get away and load while doing all this, so yes, you are behind the eight ball. But that is assuming you are the target. I think it is much more likely that the OCer will be overlooked by the BGs who are not expecting any of their pray in a retail or car jacking situation to be armed in CA, which would give the OCer a little time to evaluate options (flight or fight).

The walking in Oakland UOC would throw the hood rats for a loop and be a non event (IMO).

N6ATF

03-09-2009, 08:55 PM

I think they'd rather find something SAFE to do, like hassel somebody who's audacious enough to UOC even though they know its legal as can be.

Yep, and call for/get assigned backup to deal with a situation that is Code 4 to begin with, period. Your tax dollars at non-work.

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Yep, and call for/get assigned backup to deal with a situation that is Code 4 to begin with, period. Your tax dollars at non-work.

The buddy system is good for all of the law abiding (OCers and Police). I won't deny any officer a back up for any call. It's just good tactics for everyone involved.

Meplat

03-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Maybe I'll change my mind one of these days, but right now I still think I would feel like a walking target.

Me too. I'd rather have the cops catch me with a loaded gun (this has happened three times) :43:, than the bad guys catch me with an empty one.

N6ATF

03-09-2009, 09:11 PM

The buddy system is good for all of the law abiding (OCers and Police). I won't deny any officer a back up for any call it's just good tactics for everyone involved.

So after the loaded check is done they still need to call for backup?

Liberty1

03-09-2009, 09:14 PM

So after the loaded check is done they still need to call for backup?

I thought I was on the Redlands PD thread...Oh ya the LA thing with the 6 extra cars with two deputies each...that must have been the whole shift just coming over to see the big bad BGs that were apprehended before they could do their thang ;)

I don't think they were dispatched. I think they just decided to see what was up or maybe they thought there were other OCers lerking in the shadows with video cameras...LOL

N6ATF

03-10-2009, 12:26 AM

If I were their sarge, I would order everybody but the initial officer to get the hell back to work, and the initial officer to write "I will not exceed the scope of a 12031(e) check by running serial numbers" 100 times.

Decoligny

03-10-2009, 08:37 AM

I agree with you, however unfortunately in some situations you could get shot before you even see it coming (because of open carry). I suspect it (UOC) would be a deterrent more often than not, though. I also think we all agree that CCW is the sensible way for civilians to carry.
When I was stationed in Alaska (1975-77) I used to practice loaded open carry out in the woods. So did most other people, so no one blinked an eye. In Anchorage I carried concealed (when I carried at all) and never had any trouble whatsoever. No one ever noticed, to my knowledge, and I never had to use it. Same thing when I had a CCW permit in Georgia almost 20 years ago.

I applaud the guys who are out there exercising their constitutional rights. Let's hope that ultimately all of our 2cd amendment rights are restored. If you feel safer practicing UOC more power to you. Maybe I'll change my mind one of these days, but right now I still think I would feel like a walking target.

As long as I don't have to pay a tax, and apply for a Governmental permission slip, I wouldn't have a problem Concealing. But until that day, I will Open Carry.

Being in Rural Kern County I can actually Open Carry Loaded for the most part. So I do.

I would like to be able to Open Carry Loaded anywhere and everywhere. The extremely low chance of a psycho gunman targeting me first because I am Open Carrying (even unloaded), is insignificant when compared to the deterrant effect that a law abiding citizen with a gun on his/her hip has on the vast majority of the criminal eliment. They don't want to come against a hard target, they want the weak and helpless victims that the State of California has so graciously provided for them.

SgtDinosaur

03-10-2009, 09:46 AM

Well heck, if I lived in rural Kern County I would probably open carry and have a permit too. I don't notice a lot of threads from people up here in the Bay area talking about their open carry experiences. Ya think there might be some cultural differences? Keep carrying brothers. I hope your efforts are successful. Maybe if one part of the state changes it will grow.

I already said I agree with the deterrant effect. Truthfully though, I think it would cause a huge hullabaloo around here in Democrat heaven. Now you have me wondering how the Vallejo cops would react, knowing how bad things are getting here. Remember we're the city that went bankrupt and our cops have been leaving.

SgtDinosaur

03-10-2009, 10:02 AM

I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. That's about as close as I will come to saying what I really think on this forum.

Me too. I'd rather have the cops catch me with a loaded gun (this has happened three times) :43:, than the bad guys catch me with an empty one.

yellowfin

03-10-2009, 10:37 AM

I don't notice a lot of threads from people up here in the Bay area talking about their open carry experiences. Ya think there might be some cultural differences?

More like school zone layout differences. If I wanted to UOC it could only be for short stretches of road at a time or I'd have to take some funky serpentine routes through town to get from point A to point B. The enemy has won in making it more hassel than it's worth. I'd do it every day if it were practical, but if it were practical, they'd make it illegal. :mad:

SgtDinosaur

03-10-2009, 10:58 AM

More like school zone layout differences. If I wanted to UOC it could only be for short stretches of road at a time or I'd have to take some funky serpentine routes through town to get from point A to point B. The enemy has won in making it more hassel than it's worth. I'd do it every day if it were practical, but if it were practical, they'd make it illegal. :mad:

I think you just hit the nail on the head as regards the Bay Area.

Piper

03-10-2009, 02:32 PM

I have to agree with yellowfin on school zones. I have way too many around me, and I just can't see mapping out a route just to carry unloaded. But, I don't have a problem with putting it in the trunk and taking it from point A to point B.

6172crew

03-13-2009, 10:03 AM

LASD released a "Officer safety" document about this. They really think its all about suing the police officer and has nothing to do with the CCW..or lack there of.:confused:

CA_Libertarian

03-14-2009, 03:39 AM

...loaded open carry makes a lot more sense to me.

Wish it were legal... we're working on that.

When the day comes when PC 12031 is repealed, thank those that had the guts to open carry unloaded.

Liberty1

03-14-2009, 03:45 AM

LASD released a "Officer safety" document about this. They really think its all about suing the police officer and has nothing to do with the CCW..or lack there of.:confused:

I don't doubt it's the higher ups wanting to create an us vs. them attitude for political reasons. But if it gets the deputies to understand the law and case laws (even the 4th A.) more clearly that is a positive step.

There are friends within the LASO who a loyal patriotic Americans who believe in the US Constitution, so this is far from a lost cause in LASO's area.

N6ATF

03-14-2009, 01:06 PM

Wish it were legal... we're working on that.

When the day comes when PC 12031 is repealed, thank those that had the guts to open carry unloaded.

Can only hope that a page is not taken out of Wisconsin's LEO handbook and LOC'iers are not charged with disorderly conduct any more than they already are for UOCing (not at all?)

Meplat

03-14-2009, 01:13 PM

LOC is lawful, it's only prohibited in certain places. I and most of my friends LOC frequently while hunting. Those certain places have multiplied over the years to squeeze the noose ever tighter and tighter. Each new infringement has been in reaction to an incident, or more usually a series of incidents (can you say UOC?), that plowed the ground for germination of just one more little tiny, reasonable regulation. The way this layman read it the Heller decision leaves lots of fertile ground for the seeds of those little tiny, reasonable regulations to take root.

If you just have to feel the heft of that hawg leg on your hip, go out plinking or hunting on some public or private land where it is not prohibited, for just a few more months, least you foment something we are all going to have to live with forever because SCOTUS sees it as one of those little tiny, reasonable regulations.

If you really need protection, CCW, lawfully if possible. It's actually a lot safer all around.:thumbsup:

Wish it were legal... we're working on that.

When the day comes when PC 12031 is repealed, thank those that had the guts to open carry unloaded.