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badicedog
03-08-2009, 9:42 PM
Ran across this, seems that 'parts kits' are considered machine guns per the ATF....

http://www.atfabuse.com/atfabuse-10.html

Seesm
03-08-2009, 9:48 PM
HHmmmm seems like they are doing ok using the ATF rules... No receiver it's all good... Sounds like ATF abuse...

HotRails
03-08-2009, 10:05 PM
This happened about 5 or so years ago.. I would be interested to know the result though.

hoffmang
03-08-2009, 10:10 PM
Heh. My family house was about 5 miles west of them.

-Gene

psssniper
03-09-2009, 12:02 AM
The Wiegands, both of Indian Trail, "reaped a substantial financial profit" from the sales and used the money to "support their extravagant personal lifestyles," according to a federal grand jury indictment issued Tuesday and unsealed Thursday.

So making a profit in your business and spending it on yourself is now illegal?

Beatone
03-09-2009, 12:32 AM
ATF is wacky. I love there definition of what is and isn't a gun. Spin the wheel and where it stops youv'e got an answer. :nuts:

Seesm
03-09-2009, 12:56 AM
ATF is wacky. I love there definition of what is and isn't a gun. Spin the wheel and where it stops youv'e got an answer. :nuts:

I mean seriously is that not the TRUTH!!?

56Chevy
03-09-2009, 7:33 AM
BATFE: Bureau Against True Freedom For Everyone

AJAX22
03-09-2009, 7:59 AM
Expect to see much more of this 're-definition' and ex-post-facto enforcement of non existant laws in the future.

I'm not worried about an AWB, but I AM worried about this....

I'd write up a quick list of 50 easy ways the BATFE could decimate the 2A without any legislation beyond executive order or re-appointment of key personnel. but I don't want to make it that easy for them.

vlsgmc
03-09-2009, 9:19 AM
More ino here: http://www.atf.gov/press/fy04press/field/020504char_interordnance.htm


According to the indictment, Ulrich and Oliver Wiegand are German nationals who established Interordnance of America in June 1995 as a firearms importation business and used the business to illegally import machineguns into the United States as machinegun component parts. According to the indictment, Ulrich and Oliver Wiegand also owned and controlled two foreign companies Wiegand Ordnance GmbH, located in Witten, Germany and Interordnance Waffenhandel GmbH, located in Ferlach, Austria, which were used by Ulrich and Oliver Wiegand to illegally import Russian-made PPSH 41 machinegun component parts into the United States for subsequent sale by Interordnance of America. In addition, the indictment alleges that Ulrich and Oliver Wiegand also illegally imported FN FAL IMBEL and STEYR MP69 machineguns. The indictment alleges that Ulrich and Oliver Wiegand imported the machinegun component parts knowing that the machineguns had not been destroyed according to ATF specifications. Further, the indictment alleges that Ulrich and Oliver Wiegand sold these machineguns as parts kits to customers throughout the United States knowing that the component parts could be assembled as functional machineguns. According to the indictment, Ulrich and Oliver Wiegand, through Interordnance of America, sold over 2000 PPSH 41, over 1000 FN FAL IMBEL and over 500 STEYR MP69 machineguns to customers throughout the United States without conducting any background checks and without recording any ownership registration information with the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.

timdps
03-09-2009, 9:56 AM
There was some interesting BS in this bust.

What apparently happened was that the ATF had some beef with Interordnance and decided to change the demill requirements for PPsh 41s. Originally removing most of the rear receiver was enough. The new non-law required the removal of the trunnion as well. Thousands of Ppsh 41 parts kits have been sold with the trunnions by IO and other importers...

When the ATF first called regarding the parts kit I bought from IO, they wanted the whole parts kit, but early warnings from folks on Gunboards.com let me know they only required the trunnion. When the ATF guy came to pick up the trunnion at my business, I asked him if they were picking up trunnions from kits imported by other importers and he said no, only trunnions from kits sold by IO...

Pretty fishy...

tim

Xerxes
03-09-2009, 10:45 AM
Ran across this, seems that 'parts kits' are considered machine guns per the ATF....

http://www.atfabuse.com/atfabuse-10.html


This is an old story from when Bush was President (2004).

Not so much ATF abuse as they were specifically told what would be required to demil the kits per ATF memo and just simply ignored it. When asked to stop they ignored that as well as they received their license to import those specific kits as military parts. It was a condition of importing them that the ATF required of them before they imported them at time of receiving permission.

Many of us were visited by the ATF as they seized the records of who I/O sold the kits to and asked to surrender that little piece of metal known as the trunnion, as they believed this was the hardest part to manufacture.

I/O has not been convicted and is still in business as they argued the kits met specification of being torch cut in 3 locations with significant metal removed in the cutting process. I think it became one of those live and let live cases where they agreed to surrender the kits and promised not to do that again and they were not criminally prosecuted.

http://www.ioinc.us/mm5/merchant.mvc

Moral of the story is if ATF says to stick you finger in your nose and pick your boogers, then expect a team of Ninjas with machine guns to show up and arrest you while terrorizing your family, shooting your dog, and trashing your house if you ignore their request. Be polite with them and do as they ask and you should do a lot better.

badicedog
03-09-2009, 5:00 PM
thanks for the update, I did not realize it happened so long ago.:thumbsup:

DDRH
03-09-2009, 6:12 PM
BATFE: Bureau Against True Freedom For Everyone

:rofl:

56Chevy
03-09-2009, 8:08 PM
:rofl:
Are you brushing your teeth? You'd need to after dealing with the ATF.:p

DDRH
03-10-2009, 8:18 AM
Are you brushing your teeth? You'd need to after dealing with the ATF.:p

it'd be neat if i can do it laying down:thumbsup:

dadoody
03-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Ran across this, seems that 'parts kits' are considered machine guns per the ATF....

http://www.atfabuse.com/atfabuse-10.html

I do pretty much hate the ATF, but not many people like them now a days. There was an incident a few years back where FBI and ATF agents drew guns at each other!