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thazard
03-08-2009, 6:03 PM
My grandfather has a Remington Rand 1911 and a couple of Colt .38 detective specials that he would like to give me. I searched the list of CA DOJ approved handguns but could not find them on the list so am I legally allowed to take possession of these guns? Does filling out the intrafamily transfer form and sending it in take care of this?

Vin496
03-08-2009, 6:11 PM
Where does your grandfather live?

If he is in California, he can just give you the guns, and you can send in the intra familial form with $19 for each gun, and that is it.

If not you can have him send the guns to your local FFL and he will enter them using the intra familial exemption. The cost of this is up to the FFL you use, and yes you will have to wait 10 days.

The 'Safe Roster" does not apply to inrtra familial transfers, just no high cap mags and of course AW items.

Quiet
03-08-2009, 6:16 PM
Handguns transfered via intra-familial gifting is exempt from the approved list.

If your grandfather lives in CA...
You need to have/get a HSC or an exemption to the HSC.
Your grandfather then gives you the handguns.
You then send in a Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf) form with $19 to CA DOJ BOF.
Enjoy your gifts. :)

If your grandfather lives outside of CA...
You need to have/get a HSC or an exemption to the HSC.
Your grandfather sends the handguns to a CA FFL dealer.
You DROS the handguns and wait 10 days.
Enjoy your gifts. :)

thazard
03-08-2009, 7:47 PM
Ok thanks guys for the info. I do look forward to the new gifts. Christmas in March :)

sirgiles
03-08-2009, 8:16 PM
$19 per firearm?

Quiet
03-08-2009, 11:47 PM
$19 per firearm?

$19 total for an intra-familial transfer.
No matter how many handguns are being transfered.

Vin496
03-09-2009, 6:10 AM
$19 total for an intra-familial transfer.
No matter how many handguns are being transfered.

Thats is correct $19 for intra familial transfer form, no matter how many guns.

I confused it with the "New resident" form where you have to send in $19 for every handgun with the form. Sorry for the mistake.

Pace
03-09-2009, 8:43 AM
Where does your grandfather live?
The 'Safe Roster" does not apply to inrtra familial transfers, just no high cap mags and of course AW items.


what about for out of state? i'd assume the safe roster would have to apply since you are shipping to a FFL?

hawk1
03-09-2009, 8:49 AM
what about for out of state? i'd assume the safe roster would have to apply since you are shipping to a FFL?

If it is an out of state family transfer, they will have to go through a FFL for federal requirements, but the roster does not apply.

Pace
03-09-2009, 9:04 AM
If it is an out of state family transfer, they will have to go through a FFL for federal requirements, but the roster does not apply.


OK, that's good to know. Thanks.

paco ramirez
03-09-2009, 7:37 PM
I say do it Fatty. Where ya been?

What about an out of state cousin (by marriage) who is an LEO? Would that be a legal interfamilial transfer? Could I still take possession and use the handgun if I'm not 21 yet (I'm 18 now)?

Quiet
03-09-2009, 8:19 PM
What about an out of state cousin (by marriage) who is an LEO? Would that be a legal interfamilial transfer? Could I still take possession and use the handgun if I'm not 21 yet (I'm 18 now)?
Short answer = no.

Intra-familial is between grandparent-parent-child-grandchild.

You need to be 21 or older for a FFL dealer to transfer a handgun to you.

Long answer = no.
Since, it's your cousin (does not matter if he/she is a LEO), it is not an intra-familial transfer.
Since, the handgun is coming from out-of-state, it will need to be on the approved list and it will need to be transfered through a CA FFL dealer.
Since, you are under 21, a FFL dealer can not transfer a handgun to you.

paco ramirez
03-09-2009, 8:24 PM
Forgot about the FFL part.

gir007
03-09-2009, 10:41 PM
I just did an intrafamilar for my bro and doj took an month and half to finish up the registration when its supposed to be 10 days.. wow but finally today we got the letter.

supermario
03-09-2009, 11:28 PM
Does the Intrafamilar transfor only for grandparent, parent, child, grandchild? Becus I wanted to buy a couple of handguns from my brother whom lives in Cali. What do i need to do? Do i need to go into a local ffl and PPT as if he was any other guy off the street or can i do it myself on the internet? Sorry, I understand i can intrafamilar a gun from my father but wanted to know about brother. Thanks

bwiese
03-09-2009, 11:39 PM
Does the Intrafamilar transfor only for grandparent, parent, child, grandchild?

Correct. Brother, cousin, uncles, etc. doesn't count.

... I wanted to buy a couple of handguns from my brother whom lives in Cali. What do i need to do? Do i need to go into a local ffl and PPT as if he was any other guy off the street

Yup. 10 day wait, DROS paperwork, etc.

However, if for some reason your brother decided to give those guns to your father and then he for some reason tired of them at a later date and decided to give them to you, that would be OK. Doing this 'double clutch' in a short period for purposes of evading paperwork should be avoided, however.

bwiese
03-09-2009, 11:44 PM
I just did an intrafamilar for my bro and doj took an month and half to finish up the registration when its supposed to be 10 days.. wow but finally today we got the letter.

How the hell can DOJ do an intrafamily xfer for your *brother*?

THAT'S NOT A VALID INTRAFAMILY RELATIONSHIP PER 12078PC

You must have made misrepresentations on the form, or they have monkeys doing data entry in Sacramento.

bwiese
03-09-2009, 11:45 PM
My grandfather has a Remington Rand 1911 and a couple of Colt .38 detective specials that he would like to give me. I searched the list of CA DOJ approved handguns but could not find them on the list so am I legally allowed to take possession of these guns? Does filling out the intrafamily transfer form and sending it in take care of this?

Yes, intrafamily transfers (grandparent/parent/grandchild only) are Roster-exempt.

Some of these guns may be C&R also since they may be 50yrs old or older, and transfer of those guns (Remington Rand 1911, at least) are Roster-exempt as well.

hawk1
03-10-2009, 8:13 AM
Curious which idiotic Calgunners told you this could be done - it can't.

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=161048

Vin496
03-10-2009, 8:20 AM
That thread has been edited a bit, some post have been removed, by mods it seems.

flashhole
03-10-2009, 8:32 AM
Pardon me if this is none of my business, but I'd like to suggest something....


Don't ever sell your Grandfathers guns! You'll regret it later

GS

hawk1
03-10-2009, 12:15 PM
That thread has been edited a bit, some post have been removed, by mods it seems.

The thread has now been moved/deleted by a moderator and is not accessible to us.

Can we be told why it was moved/deleted? Was it done by the mod that gave the illegal advice to the OP?

Whats up with that?

Something smells fishy...

ke6guj
03-10-2009, 2:58 PM
We're talking about it because we can and hopefully others will learn not to do illegal transactions such as yours.

My understanding is we lost the use of DOJ's voluntary transaction form (thats why it's been pulled from the DOJ website), because people LIKE YOU used it to register illegal handguns.

Actually, the volreg form is still on the website, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf .

IIRC, CADOJ has taken the position that they would rather you do a volreg after the fact to get the handgun registered to the current owner, instead of forever now having it "unpapered" due to a illegal transfer in the past.

hawk1
03-10-2009, 3:04 PM
Actually, the volreg form is still on the website, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf .

IIRC, CADOJ has taken the position that they would rather you do a volreg after the fact to get the handgun registered to the current owner, instead of forever now having it "unpapered" due to a illegal transfer in the past.

My understanding from a previous post, DOJ said on the phone to the OP, that they were no longer accepting that form.
I'll see if I can search for it and dig it up. DOJ's issue was illegal guns being 'papered' by criminals.

rkt88edmo
03-10-2009, 3:11 PM
Some thread cleanup by me - note to all: if something is clearly illegal please don't keep bringing it up as if it wasn't on CGN.

have a nice internet day

ke6guj
03-10-2009, 3:13 PM
My understanding from a previous post, DOJ said on the phone to the OP, that they were no longer accepting that form.
I'll see if I can search for it and dig it up. DOJ's issue was illegal guns being 'papered' by criminals.

Oh, gotcha. I must have missed that post.

I did read about them saying that they didn't accept the NLIP form anymore, CADOJ: "Notice of no longer in possession" form no longer used (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=158004)

hawk1
03-10-2009, 3:19 PM
I think you're right and I'm wrong. I should have used the right form in my post above.

Midian
03-10-2009, 3:21 PM
Okay, one more to add to the pile:

Dad lives out of state, has multiple weapons, a lot of them non-roster. To transfer them to me in one shot, it's FFL to FFL, multiple DROS, 10 day wait on each, and multiple DROS charge and background check on each, right?

Does the same rule apply for inheritance?

ke6guj
03-10-2009, 3:35 PM
Dad lives out of state, has multiple weapons, a lot of them non-roster. To transfer them to me in one shot, it's FFL to FFL, multiple DROS, 10 day wait on each, and multiple DROS charge and background check on each, right?IIRC, the 1-in-30 day restriction does not have an exemption for intra-family transfers, so you'd have to have them shipped to an FFL (doesn't need to come from an FFL, unless the receiving dealer only accepts shipments from FFLs) and the DROS them one a month, with a 10-day wait for each, until you cleared the backlog. And the dealer can charge whatever transfer fee he wishes, not limited to $35 like for a PPT. I'd talk to the dealer and see if multi-gun discount is possible.

If were are talking a lot of handguns, it may be worth it to spend the money to get the C&R FFL + COE so that you would be exempt from the 1-in-30-days restriction and then DROS them all at once.

Does the same rule apply for inheritance?not up to speed on out-of-state inheritances, but I do know that there is an exemption to the need to use an FFL to transfer the firearms across state lines if passed on via a will or estate. But, I don't recall if you can just do an op-law form on them to satisy CA law.

hawk1
03-10-2009, 3:38 PM
Isn't family gift exempted from the 1 in 30, multiple giftings, and any sales tax a FFL may try to collect?

ke6guj
03-10-2009, 3:48 PM
Isn't family gift exempted from the 1 in 30, multiple giftings, and any sales tax a FFL may try to collect?I'm not sure, but I don't see it in 12072(a)(9). Its a tough one because CA would say to just send in an op-law form, but we have to comply with fed law as well because it is an out-of-state transfer.

Does an out-of-state intrafamily transfer fall under 12082? If so, then there is an exempt from the 1-in-30, but 12082 is for PPTs, and an out-of-state transfer isn't an PPT AFAIK.

supermario
03-10-2009, 7:42 PM
Correct. Brother, cousin, uncles, etc. doesn't count.



Yup. 10 day wait, DROS paperwork, etc.

However, if for some reason your brother decided to give those guns to your father and then he for some reason tired of them at a later date and decided to give them to you, that would be OK. Doing this 'double clutch' in a short period for purposes of evading paperwork should be avoided, however.

Ok thankyou, i dont mind waiting 10 days, no biggy. I just inquired about the intrafamilar because of the other post saying he intrafamilar with his brother, but i see it was incorrect. thankyou for explaining to me. By the way, if my bro does give my dad a handgun or guns (Xmas time) what is the process. Internet paperwork or local FFL paperwork? thanks again.

Veritas
03-10-2009, 10:13 PM
Guys can you help out with another intra-family transfer scenario.

Say my father lives out of state and want's to transfer ownership of a pistol. If I was planning a roadtrip to visit him with the family, can I just pick up the pistol from him versus having him ship it to a CA FFL?

Or vice versa, say my father plans a roadtrip to visit my family in California. Can he just bring the pistol with him versus shipping it through a CA FFL?

Then after either scenario above, once I get back after vacation I fill out forms and pay $19. Is this a legal transfer? Thanks guys in advance for your help.

ke6guj
03-10-2009, 10:20 PM
No, not legal. Even disregarding CA law for a moment, it is against federal law to transfer a firearm between residents of different states.

The handgun needs to be delivered to your local FFL, either your dad ships it to him, or brings it with him and hands it to your FFL in person. Then, the dealer will transfer it to you with a DROS. There is no limit to the fee he can change. And the handgun can be off-Roster, since the intra-family transfer is roster-exempt.

1923mack
03-11-2009, 8:40 AM
Can the father hand over the handgun within the state of Califonria to eliminate the FFL requirement. I know one has to file the paperwork declaring the gun with the state after the transfer.

hawk1
03-11-2009, 8:50 AM
Can the father hand over the handgun within the state of Califonria to eliminate the FFL requirement. I know one has to file the paperwork declaring the gun with the state after the transfer.

Only if the father is a resident of California.

paco ramirez
03-11-2009, 2:47 PM
I have one more question. My dad wants to get a Charles Daley stripped lower. Since stripped lowers can't be sold by FFLs to people under 21, if he wanted to give it to me could I take possession through an interfamily transfer (if I was still under 21 at the time)?

hawk1
03-11-2009, 2:51 PM
Yes! You do not have to be 21 to own a rifle or a handgun. You only need to be 21 to purchase the handgun.

paco ramirez
03-11-2009, 2:59 PM
I wasn't sure if it counted as a handgun or a rifle, and I wasn't sure if interfamily transfers applied to these. That's all, thanks.

Midian
03-12-2009, 5:50 PM
Here's another question about this: Say a CA resident needs a Colt 1911 that is off list. Can an out of state family member buy it, then decide to gift it to said CA family member, go through the FFL steps, and ruffle no feathers?

hawk1
03-12-2009, 5:53 PM
Yes, if the family member is mother/father, grandmother/grandfather, son/daughter. Up or down but not sideways or out. No brother to brother, uncle to nephew, etc...

Vin496
03-12-2009, 7:27 PM
Here's another question about this: Say a CA resident needs a Colt 1911 that is off list. Can an out of state family member buy it, then decide to gift it to said CA family member, go through the FFL steps, and ruffle no feathers?

If said family member is a Grandparent/parent/child. No Brother, sister, cousins, aunt or uncles.


EDIT--

Didn't realize Hawk had answered this.

Hawk you and I should start our own intra familial transfer consulting firm, lol!!!

Midian
03-13-2009, 5:50 AM
If said family member is a Grandparent/parent/child. No Brother, sister, cousins, aunt or uncles.



Excellent. Thought that'd work. You know the Colt Combat Elite sure is sexy.