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icormba
10-22-2005, 2:23 AM
This may have been beaten to death on the old forum, but my memory ain't up to par... so please don't beat me :cool:

Can I build a bolt action rifle with pistol grip & removable mag that just happens to look just like an AK? Kinda like the "pump" AK, but as a bolt action?

And would a bolt action rifle made from non-U.S. parts fall under the 10 or less parts law thingy?? 922r? or is that for semi-autos only?

PanzerAce
10-22-2005, 2:25 AM
not really sure how you would go about doing that...doesnt seem to me like there would be a whole lot of room....also, it might get kinda lop sided.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-22-2005, 2:38 AM
Yes, 922(r) only applies to rifles if they are semi-auto.

But when you say "just happens to look just like an AK" what are you saying? A bolt action receiver dressed up to look like and AK, or an AK receiver turned into a straight pull action?

icormba
10-22-2005, 11:14 AM
yeah... more of a strait pull action.

scott
10-22-2005, 2:55 PM
There are AK variants available in California that replace the operating rod with a shotgun-type slide action. If you Google it I'm sure you'll find it.

icormba
10-22-2005, 4:45 PM
yeah, a buddy of mine has a pump version. I used to have a FEG SA 85 before I sent it to Florida with my "liberal" mother. I noticed some SA85 parts kits came into the country recently and realized I kinda miss it... There's been a huge hole in my "Cold War Relics" collection ever since :mad: .

I thought of getting one of the plastic dummy receivers and a kit... I still have all the old mags. But there is something about not being able to fire it that just doesn't make the collection whole. I think I'll have to take a look at my buddy's pump action to see how it works and see how they got around the ability to revert it back to semi-auto... i.e. their "permanent modification".

I also realize that trying to transfer a receiver is pretty much NOT possible, but I have some legal ideas to figure something out there.

By the way... I know the Feds consider a receiver a firearm, but do they consider it a semi-auto firearm? Or is it considered semi-auto once it's a complete rifle?

as a disclaimer... I DO NOT plan to do anything illegal! :o

soopafly
10-25-2005, 9:31 AM
I have a PAR-1. From the factory, the bolt carrier has the handle lopped off, cuz I guess they think it's not needed since it's now pump action. I replaced that bolt carrier with a regular one and got rid of the plastic forearm for the pump action. There you go...bolt action AK type rifle. I did it cuz it was too hard to work the pump action when you're firing from the prone position.

Ravenslair
10-25-2005, 6:33 PM
Alright, so I read this just before I drove home and started to think.

Here are possible steps:

1 - Get an AK47 kit

2 - Remove the gas system (tube)

3 - Solder the gas port in the barrel (you could even solder a band over this as well).

4 - Send the part to CA DOJ indicating you want to build a true manual bolt action rifle based on an AK47. Indicate you DO NOT have a receiver yet, just the parts minus the receiver. Indicate it will be a true manual bolt action, as the gas system has been permanently disabled by soldering the gas port and soldering a band over the soldered gas port.

5 - If they say no way, stop and buy something else

6 - If they agree, send the letter to any of the AK47 receiver manufacturers to see if they will ship to CA (even with a letter from the CA DOJ, this will be near impossible... probably)

7 - If they agree, try to find a local FFL that will handle the deal (make sure you buy a lottery ticket as well)

8 - Build your kit or have someone else do it for you

9 - You should have a true manual bolt action AK47


This assumes the AK's are banned based on being semi-automatic and not just by name alone. This is just a pipe dream, but your post got me thinking.

****Legal statement: Of course, I am no lawyer and my statements are for conversation only. Always get clearance from the CA DOJ before attempting anything similar to this.****

bear
10-26-2005, 12:08 PM
The answer to your original question is YES.

There's no specific laws regarding the caliber 7.62x39

I've seen bolt actions factory made in this caliber, both Ruger and Winchester.
They don't have detachable mags. This could be fixed up, by somebody creative.

In general, looks, on a bolt gun, don't matter in the slightest.

If you can build it, or have it built, whether or not it resembles and AK47 is nobody's business, and nobody cares.

bwiese
10-26-2005, 12:26 PM
CZ makes some conventional-appearing bolt-action rifles chambered in 7.62x39.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

saki302
10-26-2005, 6:44 PM
..or you could just weld a 10-round mag INTO the gun and leave it the way Mikhail intended. Instant FAK-10 (FAB-10 wannabe!).

-Dave

AntiBubba 2.1
10-26-2005, 10:38 PM
A bolt action with a pistol grip? That sounds really awkward-unless you've got three arms.

Truthfully, unless you are interested in the technical challenge of it, this sounds like a total waste of time. The biggest attraction of the AK is it's low cost, utter reliability, and it's ability to deliver a high volume of lead to a target. Even the semi-auto versions sold in the US are a compromise-these guns are not celebrated for their accuracy. The exceptions are the high-end American-built ones-and I can't imagine you tearing up one of those!

Get yourself a Turkish Mauser and have it rebarreled and rechambered. With reloading, you could have a fairly accurate bolt-action, and the surplus is still cheap. Or maybe one of those Swiss Rubins-the caliber is close.
Or get a $60 Mosin/Nagant and a crate of ammo! :D

Charliegone
10-27-2005, 12:07 AM
Anyone know the price on that tristar?

bear
10-27-2005, 9:59 AM
Shows up in a couple places, lowest is $495.00 in one of the free states.

There's a Distributor in like Roseville?

That one looks pretty good to me. Looks sort of like a bolt-action AK-47 and even uses their mags. How about one of those 75-round snail drums on one of these? (I know you can't buy them here now, but if you owned one before the law it would be legal for you to have and use one.

icormba
10-27-2005, 12:52 PM
thanks all! Some of you posted the same ideas I already had in the back of my mind. :)

For further background that was kinda briefly mentioned in a couple of my replies...
I still have a stack of old ak 30 rounders with no ak :( .
I've owned an AK before & I already know what I'm missing... (which is not really that much )... It's mainly an idea that fits my collection. I'm a collector of military collectable firearms foremost. I already have M1's, mausers, K31's, enfields, SKS's and many others.

There are other worries I have than the final product...
as mentioned... the receiver! Yeah, fat chance I'd be able to get a complete one here. But the AK is one of the most simplistic designs of any firearm in history... receiver flats with rails only cost around $20 (w/no FFL needed).

The issue, as Bill would state, is when/where to complete the final processing of the receiver! Being a Ca resident... do I need to complete it here per any Fed Regs (thus breaking CA law)? or can I do it in Oregon? And while there... finish the whole build into a single bolt type action and then cross into Ca? The DOJ would still need to go over it to ensure it wasn't a AK, right?

saki302
10-27-2005, 1:20 PM
Try reloading something like that through the ejection port.

Some designs lend themselves to that solution. Some don't.

Yes, inconvenient, BUT..

you could have the folding stock, pistol grip, and all other goodies fully funcitonal- and the gun would fire semi for 10 shots.

If I were to build somethign like this, the point would be to fondle a real working AK, not to have something practical to shoot :D

-Dave

icormba
10-27-2005, 2:57 PM
Yes, inconvenient, BUT..

you could have the folding stock, pistol grip, and all other goodies fully funcitonal- and the gun would fire semi for 10 shots.

If I were to build somethign like this, the point would be to fondle a real working AK, not to have something practical to shoot :D

-Dave

The AK doesn't have a "bolt hold open" option.

saki302
10-27-2005, 3:28 PM
The AK doesn't have a "bolt hold open" option.

It does- in the form of a replacement safety with a notch cut to retain the bolt.

Not optimal, butfor someone why wants a semi-functional 'dummy' gun, it may be the best bet. I have yet to find a 10 round mag which looks like a 30-rounder, though it looks like we have approval to make or buy one so modified according to another thread on here.

-Dave

icormba
10-27-2005, 6:20 PM
If you disable and remove the gas system, don't you effectively eliminate the operating spring? Therefore wouldn't the bolt stay wherever you put it?

no, the spring is in back of the bolt... not the front like a M1 or FAL.

It's like the SKS, or the Yugo SKS M59/66 with a cutoff valve which makes the Yugo a "bolt type action" when launching grenades.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/akm/rifledisassembly/graphics/l/5.jpg

http://www.surplusrifle.com/akm/rifledisassembly/graphics/l/8.jpg
pics from Surplusrifle.com

so leaving the spring would help with the "original designed" cycling minus the semi-auto action... pull back and let it fly forward after each shot. The spring housing also keeps the dust cover in place.

rangerT
10-27-2005, 6:48 PM
i think the bolt and carrier will come back and at least ruin the rear trunion or your face when the gun is fired. the bolt will not stay locked.

icormba
10-27-2005, 7:02 PM
don't really need a "bolt hold open" since this would be a removable mag version. My above reply was originally for Dave about a pinned mag semi-auto for loading... Ted (you) mentioned loading through the ejection port would be hard... Agreed! it's even harder when the bolt won't stay open. OUCH!!! ;)

And I think rangerT is right... spring helps keep the bolt forward. Can't remember that well with my old AK. I think the same is true with the SKS (although not a rotating bolt)... I'll have to check tonight when I get home.

saki302
10-27-2005, 8:40 PM
The AK spring retains both the bolt and dust cover- wouldn't work too well without it, unless you devised some other means of holding the dust cover in place and providing a bolt carrier stop.

-Dave