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glockfu
03-06-2009, 12:02 PM
What happens if/when an FFL tries to DROS a handgun or rifle that is illegal. Hypothetically, if an FFL unknowingly were to DROS a handgun not on the Roster or an AR that is listed on the Kasler list or some other type of "assault weapon", what would happen? Would it still go through or would it come back with some sort of rejection?

Fate
03-06-2009, 12:07 PM
His dog gets shot. :43:

PolishMike
03-06-2009, 12:15 PM
When you are filling out the DROS, there is a choice for new/used and then you have to select the make/model/finish of the pistol.

On a long gun it doesnt matter as all that the DROS sees is "Longgun" no make/model

glockfu
03-06-2009, 12:25 PM
When you are filling out the DROS, there is a choice for new/used and then you have to select the make/model/finish of the pistol.

On a long gun it doesnt matter as all that the DROS sees is "Longgun" no make/model

What if the pistol that is filled out is an illegal pistol and gets submitted as such. What happens?

Librarian
03-06-2009, 12:29 PM
I believe the software will ask the dealer to enter which exemption applies. No exemption, no sale.

PatriotnMore
03-06-2009, 12:30 PM
When the ffl is in the system, they have to select make/model. If its not listed there would be no choice to click on.

They would have to click on a wrong model, which is on the list, to make the DROS submit into the system.

BONECUTTER
03-06-2009, 12:34 PM
When the ffl is in the system, they have to select make/model. If its not listed there would be no choice to click on.

They would have to click on a wrong model, which is on the list, to make the DROS submit into the system.

Correct....but one could still PPT a banned pistol. The DOJ might or might not catch it. Regardless the dealer could get in trouble.

glockfu
03-06-2009, 12:41 PM
Let me get a little more specific, what about all the AR/AK pistols, MAC 10's, MPA's and so forth that are being DROSed as new... is it safe to assume that since they are going through, there is no way that they could say later that they are illegal?

PolishMike
03-06-2009, 12:42 PM
Let me get a little more specific, what about all the AR/AK pistols, MAC 10's, MPA's and so forth that are being DROSed as new... is it safe to assume that since they are going through, there is no way that they could say later that they are illegal?

Those are all going in as Single Shot exempt pistols or PPTs.

glockfu
03-06-2009, 12:44 PM
Those are all going in as Single Shot exempt pistols or PPTs.

Yes, I know but if it's that simple and straight foward then why would a lot of OLL friendly FFL's have major concerns with transfering these? If these are going through without problems, is it safe to assume that they cannot come back later and say these are illegal?

PolishMike
03-06-2009, 12:47 PM
Yes, I know but if it's that simple and straight foward then why would a lot of OLL friendly FFL's have major concerns with transfering these? If these are going through without problems, is it safe to assume that they cannot come back later and say these are illegal?


The DROS has nothing to do with the legality of the gun. Just because you DROS/transferred it does not make it legal.

Configuration and use are what matters.

Most dealers have decided that this gray area of California law is not worth risking their businesses.

glockfu
03-06-2009, 1:24 PM
Yes, configuration definately matters but, we are assuming they are kept configured the same way they are drosed for simplicity (I know these singleshots can be modified to semi after dros by the letter of the law but lets say you don't). I am not reffering to a configuration change, you can make virtually any firearm illegal by changing the configuration.

When these fireamrs are DROSed, it is entered into the system with make model and calliber along with other information. My question then is, if this information refers to an illegal pistol, does it come back with some sort of rejection or does it simply pass through and all faith is left into the hands of the FFL that they are not transfering an illegal firearm?

glockfu
03-06-2009, 1:55 PM
Bingo, yup, that is definately an example I'm asking about. :thumbsup:

Mainly I was wondering, if these pistols would/could be termed illegal (which is why we reffer to it as a grey area), why would the DOJ let them go through the system. They have the exact make, model and caliber. Now, if they did leave all faith in the FFL rejecting what is illegal, then I could see how it would get through the DROS process but at the same time I would find it a bit ridiculous to put such a responsibility on such a huge mass of people that are obiously prone to human error.

chrisdesoup
03-06-2009, 2:40 PM
Bingo, yup, that is definately an example I'm asking about. :thumbsup:

Mainly I was wondering, if these pistols would/could be termed illegal (which is why we reffer to it as a grey area), why would the DOJ let them go through the system. They have the exact make, model and caliber. Now, if they did leave all faith in the FFL rejecting what is illegal, then I could see how it would get through the DROS process but at the same time I would find it a bit ridiculous to put such a responsibility on such a huge mass of people that are obiously prone to human error.


Funny, I took the wife and a kid when I went to DROS a lower last night and she asked the same question! I just told her that if I imported an illegal/banned weapon into the state I would be the guilty party... FFL should catch it and call me and tell me what a dumba$s I am. Don't know if I was right or wrong, just seemed to work in my head at the time.

BONECUTTER
03-06-2009, 3:13 PM
This post is all over the place:

What hapens if someone tries to DROS a banned by name pistol. Does it get rejected?.....
I have never tried....nor would any FFL that doesn't want un-needed attention.

if these pistols would/could be termed illegal (which is why we reffer to it as a grey area)
Who is we? Legal configured pistols are legal.

Banned by name is banned by name.....ignorance of the law is not a good defence. Nor would be putting the blame on the FFL or the DOJ.

Nothing will happen to the DOJ
The FFL might get his/her license suspended/revoked...fines...ect
You will be the one looking at the most serious charges.

FFL's in CA without a dangerous weapons permit have a short time to identify prohibited weapons and notify the authoritys or send them back.

PatriotnMore
03-06-2009, 3:14 PM
I think I understand your question. Here's an example.

Say you acquired a IMI UZI pistol. It's made single shot. The FFL enters it as an exempt and manually has to enter the make and model, caliber, serial #. UZI is banned so the OP is asking what happens after the FFL clicks submit? Does someone or a database look for certain words on the DROS submission to red flag a certain application?

To the OP am I correct on what your asking?

Its been long time since I DROSed, but I am pretty sure if you manually enter in a handgun, it will be flagged for review because it is not in the system, and would need to be verified. I could be wrong.

glockfu
03-06-2009, 3:19 PM
This post is all over the place:


I have never tried....nor would any FFL that doesn't want un-needed attention.


Who is we? Legal configured pistols are legal.

Banned by name is banned by name.....ignorance of the law is not a good defence. Nor would be putting the blame on the FFL or the DOJ.

Nothing will happen to the DOJ
The FFL might get his/her license suspended/revoked...fines...ect
You will be the one looking at the most serious charges.

FFL's in CA without a dangerous weapons permit have a short time to identify prohibited weapons and notify the authoritys or send them back.

Sorry but this doesnt have anything to do with the thread. I know it's illegal, I know everyone and their moma will get in trouble except the DOJ, I know ignorance of the law is not a good defence. I'm just trying to find out how the system works.

5150Marcelo
03-06-2009, 3:22 PM
I know a dude that RECENTLY bought a DPMS lower and the FFL didnt catch it till he went to pick it up. FFL let him take it anyway as this guy promised to take it outta state... to which he did.

BONECUTTER
03-06-2009, 3:51 PM
I know a dude that RECENTLY bought a DPMS lower and the FFL didnt catch it till he went to pick it up. FFL let him take it anyway as this guy promised to take it outta state... to which he did.

I would have your buddy contact someone about this.... lawyer maybe.
He might be able to fill out a no longer in possession form but the FFL should of never let him take it.

If that FFL gets audited they can get in big trouble and your buddy will probably get a knock on his door.

copenhagen269
03-06-2009, 10:11 PM
What happens if/when an FFL tries to DROS a handgun or rifle that is illegal. Hypothetically, if an FFL unknowingly were to DROS a handgun not on the Roster or an AR that is listed on the Kasler list or some other type of "assault weapon", what would happen? Would it still go through or would it come back with some sort of rejection?

These guys will show up

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/chrismatson/todandwendal.jpg