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View Full Version : noob needs something cleared up please


supratreo
03-05-2009, 7:53 PM
i've been doing a TON of research but i'm a little confused.
if you have "evil features" on your AR and have a BB are you allowed to go shoot it at the range legally? the reason i ask is because i was reading the oll faqs and saw this:

So that this is not considered a detachable magazine by DOJ Firearms Division regulations, it must require tool(s) to be used for removal/replacement, and the magazine cannot be removable/replaceable in normal course of rifle operation.

Only after a fixed low-capacity magazine is attached and screwed down should the pistol grip and/or folding or telestock be attached. Conversely, if the fixed magazine on the rifle needs to be removed for repair or cleaning, the pistol grip and/or telestock, folding stock or thumbhole stock must be removed first.



NEVER HAVE AN OFF-LIST LOWER RECEIVER WITH AN OPEN MAGAZINE WELL AND A PISTOL GRIP OR FOLDING (etc.) STOCK STILL ATACHED - EVEN FOR A MOMENT!!

ALSO, NEVER PUT A BARRELED UPPER RECEIVER WITH A FLASH HIDER ON AN OFF-LIST LOWER , UNLESS A NONDETACHABLE LO-CAP MAG HAS ALREADY BEEN AFFIXED.


so this makes it sound like if your at the range and you go through your 10 rounds, you need to take all of your evil features off to replace the mag. am i reading this right?

Darklyte27
03-05-2009, 7:59 PM
No you are not reading it right or maybe you are reading it right, but that info is wrong assuming the rifle has a bullet button.

hopefully someone will respond before I click post reply.

Because the BULLET BUTTON is always on your rifle, its not considered an AW.
Therefore you can have the flash hider, pistol grip tele stock.

Because the bullet button makes the rifle a FIXED magazine rifle.
You have to use a tool to remove the magazine.

hopefully you will take a look at this http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

supratreo
03-05-2009, 8:01 PM
that's what i figured was the whole point of the BB. thank you for clearing that up.

paintballergb
03-05-2009, 8:03 PM
Yeah unfortunately when you're on the range and want to change the magazine you have to take off the pistol grip and all other evil features then put the new magazine in, it's a lot of work but hey at least your shooting an AR-15.

JUST KIDDING!!

Yes you can legally shoot it at the range. When you need to change the mag just do so. Just leave an empty magazine in the rifle when you are transporting it to and from the range.

BigDogatPlay
03-05-2009, 8:04 PM
Overanalyzing might be more correct.

The ideas here... and others will certainly call me if I am wrong:

** Don't throw any evil features onto any OLL unless you have a mag locking device (e,g, a BB) installed first. The assembly guide posted elsewhere on the site notes this very specifically.

** Don't ever put a mag capable of holding more than 10 rounds onto a mag lock equipped OLL that has evil features. To do so makes an AW instantly, mag locking device or not.

** When you are transporting to and from the range, it is a very good idea to keep an empty mag in the weapon so that, on the off chance you wind up talking to a LEO, it is clear upon examination that the mag is "fixed" and can not be "detached" without use of a tool, which includes the tip of a bullet in a round of ammo.

ojisan
03-05-2009, 8:06 PM
No, not reading it right. But you are trying, thank you!
If you have a BB you can have all the evil features and they always stay on your gun.
Some people use a bullet or other tool to operate the BB to remove the magazine for reloading. Other prefer to open the upper (AR15) and load the ammo in that way. Either way is legal, opening the upper is "super" legal and may be advisable in some situations.

The cautions above are in respect to when you are working on your gun or changing parts around, be careful that you do not make an illegal Assault Weapon, even for a moment.

BB = evil features / fixed ten round mag.
No BB = no evil features, ten round, or hicap if you got 'em from way back when.
Strangely, never ever use a BB with a hicap, because you create a fixed magazine rifle with a capacity greater than 10 rounds = Assault Weapon.

It's a wacky world, and you have no choice but to live in it.
Welcome to Cal Guns.
:)

supratreo
03-05-2009, 8:08 PM
hmmmm i see. so there won't be any questions from the LEO about whether or not my mag is empty?

thanks for the replies. hopefully i'll have my lower in a week or 2 so i can start my first build.

supratreo
03-05-2009, 8:10 PM
you raised another question ojisan, how do you prove you have a pre ban mag? are they stamped?

Dr Rockso
03-05-2009, 8:14 PM
That sounds like pre-BB info, when the only common maglock was the Prince50 which created an AW when the set screw was removed if the rifle was otherwise intact.

hoffmang
03-05-2009, 8:16 PM
Paging Bill.

We've been asking him to update that..... <bseg>

-Gene

supratreo
03-06-2009, 11:19 AM
so whats the final word?

Dr Rockso
03-06-2009, 11:25 AM
so whats the final word?
Final word is that it is perfectly legal to drop the magazine on a BB-equipped rifle. It is recommended that you keep an unloaded magazine in it when you are transporting. It isn't illegal if you don't, it just makes it more likely that a LEO will believe the 'fixed magazine' explanation if the rifle actually has a magazine fixed in it. Legally speaking a BB-equipped gun is considered 'fixed magazine' regardless of whether it actually has a magazine in it at a given time.

sd_shooter
03-24-2009, 2:22 PM
To me it all sounds like wishful thinking.

Look here:
http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf

See page 4. It says:
"...the fixed magazine should never be removed while a pistol grip and/or telestock is attached!"

If it were ok to remove the magazine at the range, then why bother worrying about what order you put the gun together? See page 3:
"To be legally safe in California, an off-list AR15-type lower receiver should never have a pistol grip or telestock, etc. attached unless and until a nondetachable (fixed) 10-rd magazine is already affixed. When repairing or dismantling such a rifle, features such as pistol grips, telestocks, etc. must first be removed before removing the fixed 10-rd magazine."

If you're at the range swapping mags, aren't you putting your rifle into the state described on page 3?

Mazilla
03-24-2009, 2:27 PM
thats a pretty old memo.....

JDay
03-24-2009, 2:54 PM
hmmmm i see. so there won't be any questions from the LEO about whether or not my mag is empty?


If you're worried about that just remove the upper during transport, no question if its loaded then.

JDay
03-24-2009, 2:56 PM
To me it all sounds like wishful thinking.

Look here:
http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf

See page 4. It says:


If it were ok to remove the magazine at the range, then why bother worrying about what order you put the gun together? See page 3:


If you're at the range swapping mags, aren't you putting your rifle into the state described on page 3?

Find in the law where it says you have to go through all of that before removing a fixed 10 round magazine and you win a prize.

hoffmang
03-24-2009, 4:16 PM
The memo is old and pre bullet button analysis.

-Gene