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beerup949
03-05-2009, 11:07 AM
Hi, I just purchased my first AR15 yesterday. Do they perform the background check right there where they input my information in the computer or is this all handled within the 10 day waiting period? When will they let me know if I'm approved or denied?


Your input is much appreciated....Thanks

Japsican
03-05-2009, 11:21 AM
The check is pretty much instant...the 10 day wait is just a "Cooling Off" period...If you're denied, the dealer will probably notifiy you pretty quickly.

halifax
03-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Hi, I just purchased my first AR15 yesterday. Do they perform the background check right there where they input my information in the computer or is this all handled within the 10 day waiting period? When will they let me know if I'm approved or denied?


Your input is much appreciated....Thanks

MCI handles the DROS submittal software for the state. They forward it to DOJ. The background check is not instant. The state has 10 days (24hr periods) to delay or deny the DROS. If there is a problem, the dealer is notified and is required to contact the customer with a DOJ contact telephone number.

If the DROS is for a long gun: Buyer's background is checked

If the DROS is for a handgun: Buyer's background and handgun serial number check is done.

If the DROS is for a PPT: The above checks apply and the Seller's background is done.

Hope this helps.

Look Wat I kAn DO !
03-05-2009, 12:50 PM
I would think that people would know if there eligible or not?

Josh
03-05-2009, 12:58 PM
if there is an issue with the DROS the dealer is usually notified within 2-3 days.

antiocharmory
03-05-2009, 1:05 PM
DOJ normally notifies the dealer anytime between a couple hours after the transaction has taken place and up to the ninth or tenth day. I remember I had sold a handgun, and about an hour later, DOJ called and said that person has been denied. And I can also recall a situation where everything looked like it was smooth sailing and we got a call from DOJ like a day or two before the tenth day and they said the person was denied. So it can vary depending on how busy they are or when they want to get around to doing it.

Turbinator
03-05-2009, 4:28 PM
I would think that people would know if there eligible or not?

Yeah, but the checks are done in case non-eligible people still try to slip one past the gov't.

Turby

halifax
03-05-2009, 4:37 PM
I would think that people would know if there eligible or not?

They are looking much more closely these days. "Fugitive from Justice" can mean anything from un-paid child support to failure to appear warrants on tickets.

Josh3239
03-05-2009, 4:44 PM
Wrong forum, shouldn't be in the handgun section

PolishMike
03-05-2009, 5:00 PM
Most denials I have seen are DMV rejects. People with unpaid parking tickets, suspended licenses, ect.

beerup949
03-05-2009, 6:27 PM
Most denials I have seen are DMV rejects. People with unpaid parking tickets, suspended licenses, ect.

Yeah I have unpaid parking tickets but they do not last on your record... only on that license plate or car they were issued to.

beerup949
03-07-2009, 3:46 PM
Bump

Josh
03-07-2009, 7:00 PM
Yeah I have unpaid parking tickets but they do not last on your record... only on that license plate or car they were issued to.

They go to the owner of the vehicle. If unpaid they will send it to the registered owner of the vehicle through DMV records.

beerup949
03-07-2009, 8:22 PM
Yeah, I am no longer the reg. owner of the car. This was like 5 years ago and I have yet to get anything in the mail or have any problems taking care of stuff at the DMV since.

Look Wat I kAn DO !
03-07-2009, 10:51 PM
let us know how it goes!.

beerup949
03-07-2009, 10:56 PM
I will.

I'm pretty sure I'm cool but after reading things on this site with things being mistaken through the DOJ etc. I'm nervous, that's all. It's been almost 4days now and no call from the FFL so I guess that's good news. LoL

I just like to stress! Anyone think I should call or do the FFL's not even know if I'm approved until the 10th day? Is there some sort of approval # they need to jot down on the paperwork?

halifax
03-08-2009, 6:14 AM
I will.

I'm pretty sure I'm cool but after reading things on this site with things being mistaken through the DOJ etc. I'm nervous, that's all. It's been almost 4days now and no call from the FFL so I guess that's good news. LoL

I just like to stress! Anyone think I should call or do the FFL's not even know if I'm approved until the 10th day? Is there some sort of approval # they need to jot down on the paperwork?

The DOJ has the full 10 24hr periods to delay or deny. Once the time has passed without notification, the process may proceed. The dealer is not given any sort of confirmation for a "proceed".

elrcastor
03-08-2009, 9:47 AM
"No news is good news".

beerup949
03-08-2009, 1:15 PM
Okay, thanks all. I have my bachelor party in Vegas next weekend when the 10 days is up! So I will pick it up on Monday. I'm so stressed. I don't see why I would not pass but I have also don't have had the cleanest of backgrounds, DUI etc. but nothing to disqulify me right off the bat. I just don't want someone at the DOJ to deny me just because I'm not sqeeky clean. I have heard some horror stories on this site.

Josh
03-08-2009, 1:30 PM
as long as you have no warrants, including bench warrants for not showing up or paying a traffic ticket and its not a violent misdemeanor or felony you are ok.

The only other reason is if you have the same name as someone else that has a record. But usually a call to the doj clears that up.

paul0660
03-08-2009, 1:31 PM
Halifax:

If the DROS is for a long gun: Buyer's background is checked

If the DROS is for a handgun: Buyer's background and handgun serial number check is done.

If the DROS is for a PPT: The above checks apply and the Seller's background is done.

Questions:

The DOJ does not check long gun serials? Doesn't that mean that a stolen long gun can change hands?

On a PPT, what are the ramifications of the seller's backround check? It seems the transaction should proceed if the buyer is ok, but if the seller cannot legally own the firearm, would the DOJ prosecute the seller for that past act?

Thanks

beerup949
03-08-2009, 1:42 PM
Its a DUI w/Injury (Minor) Bruised leg and a sprained hand. It was a felony but dropped to a misd. No *warrants (see below) or anything like that... all fines are paid including the DUI that was back in 2004 (cost me over 10k) I'm glad it happened though because I would still be wild and drinking and driving. So thank god for that. I even tried to get into two cabs before attempting to drive home before I drove but we got kicked out we were so drunk. I DID have a warrant for Urinating in public when I was in the Marines down in San Diego but that was in '99 or 2000. It was so long and I never took care of it but with the statue of limitations I currently am not wanted anymore. I double checked with the Sherriff in San Diego online and called. Other than that...These are the only 2 times I have been in trouble. Finished probation and paid all fines.

halifax
03-08-2009, 2:59 PM
Halifax:



Questions:

The DOJ does not check long gun serials? Doesn't that mean that a stolen long gun can change hands?

DROS submittal does not include serial numbers for long guns. Nothing to check.



On a PPT, what are the ramifications of the seller's backround check? It seems the transaction should proceed if the buyer is ok, but if the seller cannot legally own the firearm, would the DOJ prosecute the seller for that past act?

Thanks

If the buyer is denied, the dealer must return the firearm to the seller unless the seller is also a prohibited individual. The BG check is done on the seller to facilitate the return.

I don't know about prosecution of sellers. They could be just trying to legally dispose of their property because they can no longer possess it.

halifax
03-08-2009, 3:07 PM
Its a DUI w/Injury (Minor) Bruised leg and a sprained hand. It was a felony but dropped to a misd. No *warrants (see below) or anything like that... all fines are paid including the DUI that was back in 2004 (cost me over 10k) I'm glad it happened though because I would still be wild and drinking and driving. So thank god for that. I even tried to get into two cabs before attempting to drive home before I drove but we got kicked out we were so drunk. I DID have a warrant for Urinating in public when I was in the Marines down in San Diego but that was in '99 or 2000. It was so long and I never took care of it but with the statue of limitations I currently am not wanted anymore. I double checked with the Sherriff in San Diego online and called. Other than that...These are the only 2 times I have been in trouble. Finished probation and paid all fines.

If you are completely free and clear of the courts and justice system, I don't think the misdemeanor DUI will be an issue.

A Marine peeing in public in SD :) I'll bet that's never happened before.

beerup949
03-08-2009, 3:20 PM
If you are completely free and clear of the courts and justice system, I don't think the misdemeanor DUI will be an issue.

A Marine peeing in public in SD :) I'll bet that's never happened before.

Yeah, I wasn't even that drunk but the bars were closing and I could not go back inside. I was in a dark alley behind a dumpster. I think the women cop was a trainee because she told me for being nice she wouldnt take me to jail?!?! I was peeing behind a dumpster lady!!! Why are you even giving me this ticket?!?! Oh well... Anyways yes EVERYTHING has been taken care of fines, probation, jail time yada, yada, yada. I'm still waiting for the call from the FFL because I psyk myself out too much. Other than that I got my last weekend in Vegas this coming weekend as a NON married man. And if my future wife can deal with me I can't see why I cannot own a firearm! LoL

beerup949
03-08-2009, 3:37 PM
Any more input regarding when people are usually denied from their FFL's?

BUMP

paul0660
03-08-2009, 6:58 PM
Good info, Halifax.

If the buyer is denied, the dealer must return the firearm to the seller unless the seller is also a prohibited individual. The BG check is done on the seller to facilitate the return.

Who gets the gun if the buyer and seller are both denied.....................WOAH!!



Beerup, I would change my handle, if I were you, since you are a good boy and all now. As for the peeing in public thing...........what's a fella supposed to do?

beerup949
03-08-2009, 7:20 PM
Good info, Halifax.



Who gets the gun if the buyer and seller are both denied.....................WOAH!!



Beerup, I would change my handle, if I were you, since you are a good boy and all now. As for the peeing in public thing...........what's a fella supposed to do?

LoL, my last name is Beerup so I guess I had to get those things out of the way just to grow up.

paul0660
03-08-2009, 7:35 PM
LoL, my last name is Beerup so I guess I had to get those things out of the way just to grow up.

Holy smoke, a marked man! Enjoy that new gun.

beerup949
03-11-2009, 9:49 AM
Bump for more insight

j6p2004
03-11-2009, 11:41 AM
At what point during DROS/background check do they (DOJ/ATF) start the clock for the 5-day/30-day rules?

beerup949
03-12-2009, 8:32 PM
I think right after the initial waiting period starts.

CHS
03-12-2009, 9:02 PM
Who gets the gun if the buyer and seller are both denied


It would technically belong to the buyer, but the FFL would not be allowed to transfer it to them after the waiting period was over.

It would basically be up to the buyer to find ANOTHER buyer while the FFL holds onto the firearm.

At what point during DROS/background check do they (DOJ/ATF) start the clock for the 5-day/30-day rules?

ATF has nothing to do with the waiting period, that's all California.

Once the "submit" button is pressed on the DROS computer form, the 10-day clock starts ticket. At the top of the DROS printout there is a time and date of submittal. Legally, you can pick your gun up 10 days and 1 second after that listed time and date.

It's 10 days for the waiting period in CA.
That time/date at the top of the printout is also when the 1-in-30 days timer starts for handguns. (Doesn't apply to PPT's)

CHS
03-12-2009, 9:03 PM
I think right after the initial waiting period starts.

????

That response makes no sense.

The waiting period begins after the waiting period starts????

elrcastor
03-12-2009, 9:20 PM
Once the "submit" button is pressed on the DROS computer form, the 10-day clock starts ticket. At the top of the DROS printout there is a time and date of submittal. Legally, you can pick your gun up 10 days and 1 second after that listed time and date.

It's 10 days for the waiting period in CA.
That time/date at the top of the printout is also when the 1-in-30 days timer starts for handguns. (Doesn't apply to PPT's)

That's 10 24hr periods, not to be confused with a calendar day.

CHS
03-12-2009, 9:33 PM
That's 10 24hr periods, not to be confused with a calendar day.

Last I checked, a calendar day was 24 hours.

Either way, your semantics don't help or change the argument.

j6p2004
03-12-2009, 11:49 PM
ATF has nothing to do with the waiting period, that's all California.



AFAIK, if 2 or more handguns are bought within 5 days, the FFL is supposed to notify ATF.

Josh
03-13-2009, 12:51 AM
Last I checked, a calendar day was 24 hours.

Either way, your semantics don't help or change the argument.



there is a difference between 10 24hour periods and 10 days. If i bought a gun at 12noon on monday and waited 10 days it would be wed next week for pickup. But if its 10, 24 hour periods it would be thur of next week.

Waiting a calendar day would let me include the date of purchase as one day.

Moto4Fun
03-13-2009, 9:04 AM
there is a difference between 10 24hour periods and 10 days. If i bought a gun at 12noon on monday and waited 10 days it would be wed next week for pickup. But if its 10, 24 hour periods it would be thur of next week.

Waiting a calendar day would let me include the date of purchase as one day.

A calendar day starts at Mid-night

A 24 hour period starts at any point within the day.

It is actually could be better this way. If it was 10 FULL calendar days, there would no partial credit.

Note to buyers: buy your gun earlier in the day for more partial credit! Don't buy your gun at closing time, otherwise you may have to wait until the store opens on the 11th day.

maxicon
03-13-2009, 9:31 AM
Here's a post I copied some time ago. Not my post!

I don't know who the original poster was, and if there are any errors, I'm sure the folks who know their stuff will speak up, but I liked the level of detail in it.

As a firearms dealer, let me give you the benefit of what I know about what happens during the 10-day wait on the purchase of firearms.

First of all, as everyone knows there are two agencies that control the sale of firearms. The state agency is called the California Department of Justice (aka DOJ), which is a division of and reports to the California Attorney General’s Office. The Federal agency is called the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (aka BATF or ATF), and not I’m sure who these guys report to these days – used to be Treasury, but I think they now fall under Homeland Security?

The 10-day wait is mandated not by the Feds, but by the State of California. When a dealer transmits a Dealer Record of Sale (aka DROS) it is initially sent to a provider. This provider acts as a “conduit” and “firewall” for DOJ. They “batch” the DROS’s transmitted from dealers all over the state and then forward them on to DOJ for further processing. It is my understanding that these batches are sent every hour. This provider also serves as DOJ’s technical support for the dealer network. If I have a problem with my DOJ computer and call for technical service, it is these folks that I talk to – not DOJ.

Once the DROS arrives at DOJ it goes to unit who “runs” the buyers through several state and federal law enforcement systems to check on the individual’s firearms eligibility. DOJ checks DMV to make sure that they have the correct person and the individual’s driver’s license is clear and valid, not suspended, revoked, or expired. Then the individual may be run through several other state and federal law enforcement systems, to determine whether or not they may be on parole or probation, whether they may be subject to a domestic violence restraining order or be a wanted person in the state of California, or any other state for that matter. In addition a, criminal history is checked on the buyers to be certain that they have not been convicted of any crime that would under California law disqualify them from owning a firearm.

There are many issues these days that will cause a person to be denied for the purchase of a firearm. It can something as simple as a suspended driver’s license, an entry in the domestic violence restraining order system as a restrained person, certain classes of violent misdemeanors as well as, of course - the big XX you ain’t gonna get a gun, ever – a felony conviction. And there are others to numerous to mention.

As dealers we receive several different types of notifications from DOJ if there is a problem (no notification is received if all is well). Some are what they call a “DMV reject” where the person’s information does not match DMV records. Some of the DMV rejects are where the person’s CDL is not valid for some reason. A frequent reason is that it is suspended.

Then we also get “Temporary Holds”. These are usually generated as a result of a criminal history check where the individual may have had problem in California or another state. If the “hit” is from another state, DOJ may have to wait for additional information from the responding state to see if the charge was one that would under California law prevent the person from owning a firearm.

And then we get the “Prohibited” denials. These are people who are either convicted felons (yes, believe or not they do come to dealers from time to time) or people who have disqualifying hits in the any or all of the other law enforcement state & federal systems.

And I forgot a very important thing. There is a system in California where physicians and hospitals are required report individuals with mental health issues. These would be people are classified as a “danger to themselves or others”. These people, of course, fall into the prohibited category.

By the way, I should also add here that if you are a prohibited person, it is against the rules for you to go out and try to purchase and register a firearm. While the system will probably catch you and the sale will be denied, it is a crime for a prohibited person to do so. However, the state has recently instituted a method by which if you are not sure of your status you may complete and send into to DOJ a “Firearms Eligibility” form. Dealers have this form and you can complete it in a matter of minutes and send it with a fee to find out your status, before you register a gun. I believe if you go the DOJ website you can print this form.

Dealers receive information on DOJ Temp. Holds, DMV Rejects, and Prohibited Persons three ways. A recorded phone call is made to the dealer, a letter is sent via the dealer’s DOJ computer, and a copy of that letter is sent via snail mail. There is no excuse for dealer to have released a firearm claiming they were not notified.

For some reason, the state of California has decided that handgun DROS’s are to be kept as a permanent record and that long gun DROS’s are not. It is my understanding that DOJ is required by law to destroy all long gun DROS’s after 10 days. This appears to be a political decision and I offer no opinion on it either way. Just the facts as I know them.

Handguns DROS’d in California are entered into a database. This database is called the Automated Firearms System (AFS). AFS allows law enforcement to run either people or handguns to find out who belongs to a handgun, what handguns are registered to that person, or if the gun is stolen. Long guns are not entered into this system.

Gun owners should always keep a list of his/her weapons by make, model, serial number, & caliber or gauge. This is especially important for long guns. The only record of the long gun purchase is with the dealer. This would enable the owner to be able to properly report a lost or stolen weapon to law enforcement and enhance their chances of recovering the firearm down the road. Guns do have a way of turning up. We had an instance where an M-1 carbine was stolen from us by a delivery person (whose company shall remain unnamed – go brown!). The gun was stolen in Costa Mesa and turned up 30 years later in Florida! This weapon was eventually returned to us.

In a way, as a dealer the 10-day wait protects us, to some limited degree, from lawsuits. We are simply grinding out the paper for DOJ for guns we have sold. It is up to them and it is on them to either approve or not approve the sale. Case in point, several years ago when there was no wait on long guns we had the misfortune of selling a Winchester 1300 Defender to a gal who took the gun home and immediately blew her boyfriend away. As it turns out, the boyfriend was married and the wife of the deceased sued us for twenty million dollars. It seems that we were supposed to know that the shooter was crazy. Well, I did take Psychology 101 in high school, but I didn’t know I was qualified to practice. Anyway the lawyers for our insurance company decided to settle the case rather than go to court. The wife of the cheating husband was given a million dollars for her trouble and our insurance rates went way, way up. With respect to that situation, a 10-day wait might have saved us a lot of grief and a lot of money – no telling.

So, this is what happens, as I know it from the industry side of the fence. Most of what goes on is done electronically and doesn’t take much time. However, in the early days of wait periods in California, the waiting period was also called a “cooling off” period designed to stop crimes of passion as well as suicides. I also know that as a dealer we often get notifications at the 11th hour, so to speak – at the end of the 10-day wait of a denial, temp. hold or DMV reject. Sometimes we will get a call on a Saturday when someone at DOJ is working overtime. What I am getting to is that it would be my guess that the 10-day wait is also designed to give DOJ enough time to process the sheer volume of guns sold in California – we do buy a lot! Again I offer no opinion on this – I’m just relating what I know from the dealer’s point of view.

CHS
03-13-2009, 9:41 AM
there is a difference between 10 24hour periods and 10 days. If i bought a gun at 12noon on monday and waited 10 days it would be wed next week for pickup. But if its 10, 24 hour periods it would be thur of next week.

Waiting a calendar day would let me include the date of purchase as one day.

That's the silliest argument I've ever heard in my life.

First off, from my very first post I said "10 days". Not once mentioning calendar days. Someone else got all semantic on us. A calendar day is a day, and is still 24 hours in length.
Second, a "day" is defined as a revolution of our planet, which takes 24 hours
Third, if I told you to your face "I'm going to give you a cookie in two days", would you HONESTLY think to yourself "Whoohoo!! I'm getting a cookie tomorrow!" ???? Because that's what you just told me you think two days means.

When I sell a gun to someone, I tell them they can come pick it up in 10 days, after the time posted on the DROS form. I then write a pick-up date and time on the DROS form that is 10 days later, or 240 hours. I say "days" because that is easily understood common language.

When I tell someone they can come in 10 days later after the posted time, they don't show up 9 days later like you and say "but the day I bought it counts!". No, they show up 10 days later like they are supposed to.





In actual astronomical terms a "day" is slightly less than 24 hours by a few minutes, but we simplify it be calling it 24 hours and then make up for the lost time every 4 years on February 29th.

Josh
03-13-2009, 11:10 AM
no its not a silly argument because some people will count the day of the dros as one day as in a a day of the week.

if you walk into a hotel and get a room for 3 days, that first day is counted as one of the 3 days.

People get this confused alot when they buy a gun, even ones that have bought guns previously. I had to explain this constantly untill i started giving them a card with a date of pickup. Even then people call all the time asking clarification on their pickup date.

i hope you dont talk to your customers like this when they may or may not be wrong or misinformed.

beerup949
03-16-2009, 11:47 AM
Okay,

Well I passed the background with no problems at all. I picked up my new rifle from OC Armory last night. Those guys are awesome. I would highly recommend them.

SScott
06-01-2009, 2:08 AM
Wait a minute you have to have a valid CA DRIVERS license? What about a valid CA ID card?

punisheryayarea
06-01-2009, 7:50 AM
Just kick back and relax Im in the 10 day wait too, My dad always told me if you dont do anything wrong then why worry?

CHS
06-01-2009, 8:13 AM
Wait a minute you have to have a valid CA DRIVERS license? What about a valid CA ID card?

CDL or CID. Both are fine.

ConcernedCitizen
06-01-2009, 10:12 AM
I am currently on a delay due to my criminal record from 32 years ago in NY state. The gun dealer called me 1 week into my 10 day waiting period to let me know and gave me a phone number to call. CA DOJ told me that they found this felony arrest record from when I was 18. My recollection is that the felony (burglary) was reduced to a misdemeanor. My father worked a deal out so I could still join the military later that year. In the U.S. Navy, I had a Secret clearance and was authorized to use deadly force while on a nuclear weapons security watch aboard ship. Since getting out of the Navy, I obtained a Secret clearance for my defense industry work. I will call DOJ again weekly to follow the status. They said they might discover that it had been adjudicated and approve my eligibility, but they recommended calling periodically to follow up.

I'm not writing this to complain- I can accept responsibility for my prior acts. It's just that I thought this info about my situation may be helpful. Regardless of my eligibility, I will support the NRA, Calguns and gun rights in general.

SScott
06-02-2009, 12:51 PM
I searched.
You have to wait 10 days on rifles now too?
I want to buy a Ruger 10/22
It used to be just handguns.

CHS
06-02-2009, 12:58 PM
I searched.
You have to wait 10 days on rifles now too?
I want to buy a Ruger 10/22
It used to be just handguns.

Uhh, no.

It used to be 15 days on rifles. Now it's 10 days. Pretty much always been that way.

DeepSeaDouble
06-02-2009, 7:06 PM
There was at no time no wait on long guns in CA, IIRC around 1989 or so that ended. Also until about 1997, there was no wait on C&R long guns though I do believe dros was still conducted and 4473 filled out.

So basically pre 1989 one could walk out the door of a CAFFL after purchasing a chicom AK47 semi auto clone.

SScott
06-02-2009, 10:06 PM
Huh?
Well there are some gun dealers out there doing some illegal stuff then because in 2004 I bought a Savage 7mm and a Mossberg 500 and walked out the door the same day I paid for them.

thedrickel
06-02-2009, 10:46 PM
Huh?
Well there are some gun dealers out there doing some illegal stuff then because in 2004 I bought a Savage 7mm and a Mossberg 500 and walked out the door the same day I paid for them.

Did you start the background check 10 days (or up to 30) before that?

SScott
06-03-2009, 12:04 PM
No I walked in picked out the rifle I wanted. Filled out some paperwork. Signed my name to a couple of receipts. Then paid cash and left with my rifle.
I bought an old Colt 1911 .45 from the same store and had to wait 10 days.

CHS
06-03-2009, 12:07 PM
No I walked in picked out the rifle I wanted. Filled out some paperwork. Signed my name to a couple of receipts. Then paid cash and left with my rifle.
I bought an old Colt 1911 .45 from the same store and had to wait 10 days.

A dealer broke the law then.

mecam
06-03-2009, 12:15 PM
No I walked in picked out the rifle I wanted. Filled out some paperwork. Signed my name to a couple of receipts. Then paid cash and left with my rifle.
I bought an old Colt 1911 .45 from the same store and had to wait 10 days.

Say no mo.... ;)