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True Brit
10-19-2005, 10:37 AM
Letís discuss a hypothetical. Letís say I want to bring a gun in to California that is not on the drop list but only carries 10 rounds. And would have been a legal sale a few years ago.

Can I get a post offices box in Arizona or Nevada and claim residency in one of those states and then transfer the gun in under some dual residency rule?

Charliegone
10-19-2005, 10:46 AM
You probably can't. Since you are still a resident in California. Besides it might look fishy to some ATF or DOJ agent, if you were to keep doing this that is.

EOD Guy
10-19-2005, 10:54 AM
Letís discuss a hypothetical. Letís say I want to bring a gun in to California that is not on the drop list but only carries 10 rounds. And would have been a legal sale a few years ago.

Can I get a post offices box in Arizona or Nevada and claim residency in one of those states and then transfer the gun in under some dual residency rule?

No. You actually have to live in another state for part of the year and you would have to have identification with the address at which you were living.

True Brit
10-19-2005, 11:12 AM
Many post office box rentals have a "street address"...who is to say I can't live in that little box for 90 to 120 days out of the year or more?

bwiese
10-19-2005, 11:55 AM
TrueBrit...

I'm sure your use of a PO Box would be considered a legal sham or artifice and would not satisfy true residency requirements.

This has failed for numerous folks that try it for tax reasons. You actually have to 'be there' in that other state for a reasonable amount of time, and you'd likely have supporting documentation (gas/utility bill, grocery bill, ATM records, etc.) It's pretty easy to prove you've been somewhere - or not - as most folks can't live a regular life in a vacuum.

Even the heir to the Rice-A-Roni fortune had a helluva time fighting Calif FTB (tax board) - this went up thru numerous appeals - to not tax his income for the time period he was actually residing in Lake Tahoe, NV (forget exact details).

And that was just a civil, not criminal, matter.

It's very easy to find out if addresses are 'addresses of convenience' or "PMBs" (private mail boxes). Credit/ database reporting cos have databases of MailboxesUSA-type facilities they get from US Post Office. I can find out in about 1/2hr for $20 if "1234 Jones St. #123" is an actual address of an apartment or biz, or just a box address.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

True Brit
10-19-2005, 12:08 PM
Okay, not worth the bother. I can find one in California.

Thanks for the info.

bwiese
10-19-2005, 1:03 PM
Treelogger...

Your broad points are correct on a general basis. However, a few quick notes:


To buy a gun from dealer in NV you just need a NV ID and they do an instant check. Phone/utility bills, property deeds, etc. are a California-only thing. Private-party sales without FFL intervention are legal in NV for NV residents.
There's no state income tax in Nevada.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
10-19-2005, 1:07 PM
Letís discuss a hypothetical. Letís say I want to bring a gun in to California that is not on the drop list but only carries 10 rounds. And would have been a legal sale a few years ago.

Aside from all the in state vs outta state stuff discussed above, let's clarify one other thing....

"10 rounds" vs "drop test" is irrelevant. Just about ALL handguns except single action revolvers (and, upcoming due to new legislation: single-shot pistols) require the safety test/certification to be sold/imported into CA. Otherwise all those nice classic 1950s & 60s S&W revolvers would be importable into CA!

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Can'thavenuthingood
10-19-2005, 9:33 PM
So when I bring a gun into Ka. I am importing it, I'm not a business just a private party taxpayer.
Are you saying it has to be on the approved certified for dummies list or I have to leave it at the border?

No filing of the Form 4100?

As a citizen of California, I cannot buy a handgun in Nevada?

Vick

bwiese
10-19-2005, 11:24 PM
Treelogger's right.

If you are a citizen of another state moving to CA with handguns, you are called a "personal handgun importer". You have 60 days from moving in to register all your handguns (there's a paper you fill out, along with a small fee, that you send to DOJ). These handguns can be unapproved, "unsafe" handguns as long as they are not assault weapons. You do not need to go thru an FFL. However, you cannot bring in high capacity (>10rds) magazines.

You do not have to report/register rifles when moving to CA either - again, no assault weapons and no hicap mags can be imported.

If you are a CA resident, you are NOT allowed by CA and Federal law to acquire most guns outside of CA and without intervention of a CA FFL. Big no-no. If you see a gun outside CA that you want, it needs to go thru a CA FFL dealer; if it's a handgun not on the approved 'safe gun' list, you can't get it in CA: the FFL won't transfer it to you.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mike Searson
10-20-2005, 10:07 AM
To clarify.

The federal law does not ban residents of one state buying long guns in another state simply by residency.

At one time it mattered as the states had to adjoin, but the statute was changed to as long as the gun laws in both states are in compliance.

For example as a resident of Nevada I can legally buy long guns in Florida but not in California.

California residents are hosed because no state makes firearms buyers jump through more hoops than your state does.

I don't believe it's the same with handguns, as many states have varying handgun requirements (registration, licensing, waiting periods, etc) so it may not be as practical.

bear
10-20-2005, 10:23 AM
If you see a gun outside CA that you want, it needs to go thru a CA FFL dealer; if it's a handgun not on the approved 'safe gun' list, you can't get it in CA: the FFL won't transfer it to you.


HERE's where you can get lucky, IF the gun you want is a Curio & Relic, then you can get it. Check out the list, there's a lot of pistols on there. I have 3, soon to be more...

magsnubby
10-20-2005, 6:59 PM
Let’s discuss a hypothetical. Let’s say I want to bring a gun in to California that is not on the drop list but only carries 10 rounds. And would have been a legal sale a few years ago.

Can I get a post offices box in Arizona or Nevada and claim residency in one of those states and then transfer the gun in under some dual residency rule?

I sent this e-mail to the DOJ on 7-26-05:

If a person is a legal resident of Calif. and has a vacation home in Arizona and buys a handgun in Arizona (providing he has documentation proving he has an Arizona residence) what would be involved in bringing the gun back to Calif.? Would it have to be on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale? It would be for personal use only and not for resale.

I received this response:

Dear Mr. Higgins:

A California resident does not acquire (that is, take possession of) firearms out of state. If you lawfully purchased a firearm in Arizona, and qualify as an Arizona resident, then you maintain the firearm purchase in the state you purchased it in. If you wish to transfer your firearms into California, have them sent to a dealer in your area who will process the needed paperwork. Also the California dealer can ensure you are in compliance with California firearm laws and not acquiring a firearm that a California resident cannot lawfully acquire. The handgun would have to be on the Certified Roster of Handguns, unless otherwise exempted pursant to Penal Codes 12132 and 12133. You can read these penal codes in their entirety in on line publication, DANGEROUS WEAPONS CONTROL LAWS, found on our website>www.ag.ca.gov/firearms.

Sally Carney, Field Representative
Firearms Division

bluebaron
11-20-2005, 1:28 PM
There's a gunshop in Idaho advertising on their website that Kalifornia residents can buy any rifle they want and walk out with it the same day. They say it's up to the buyer to check legality of bringing it back.

shopkeep
11-20-2005, 1:43 PM
Oh there's plenty of ways to get "assault weapons" and other stuff we aren't allowed to have into the state. There just aren't any practical ones people have found to get them in here "LEGALLY". And since we're all law abiding citizens here I think everyone can agree when I say "I'm not going to give up my right to ever own a gun again just for something I can't have here".

I'm starting to think that provided the other 49 states continue to dramatically differ in gun laws from PRK and provided gun friendly states like NV and AZ continue to surround it, future generations may see our wisdom at some point in time. Whether that point comes when they make guns illegal in the PRK or what particular ban-of-the-month (there seems to be a new ban yearly) who knows. All I can say is that I'm pleased to see so many young people at target ranges and gun stores.

bluebaron
11-20-2005, 4:05 PM
I was thinking more of cali legal rifles. Officially transporting into the state is illegal....but what is there to say you didn't take the weapon out with you?

Reason I ask is that it seems a great pity that if you spot a bargain while on vacation you can't just buy it and bring it back with you...going through an FFL is so expensive.

On another subject. Hi cap magazine parts appear to be legal to bring in. Only assembling them into a working magazine is illegal. So any criminal even if searched coming across the state line cannot have the parts confiscated. So this law can only impact us law abiding citizens. Surely, we're not the people the law needs to be aiming at.

dwtt
11-20-2005, 5:21 PM
Truebrit can do this. He can go to a nearby city in NV and rent an apartment. Declare his residency in NV, get a NV driver's license and give up his CA residency. Then he can buy all the handguns he wants. After a year, he can move back to CA and bring his handguns with him, giving up his NV residency. This is legal, but it's a hassle and expensive.

shin_en
03-19-2006, 11:02 PM
I sent this e-mail to the DOJ on 7-26-05:

If a person is a legal resident of Calif. and has a vacation home in Arizona and buys a handgun in Arizona (providing he has documentation proving he has an Arizona residence) what would be involved in bringing the gun back to Calif.? Would it have to be on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale? It would be for personal use only and not for resale.

I received this response:

Dear Mr. Higgins:

A California resident does not acquire (that is, take possession of) firearms out of state. If you lawfully purchased a firearm in Arizona, and qualify as an Arizona resident, then you maintain the firearm purchase in the state you purchased it in. If you wish to transfer your firearms into California, have them sent to a dealer in your area who will process the needed paperwork. Also the California dealer can ensure you are in compliance with California firearm laws and not acquiring a firearm that a California resident cannot lawfully acquire. The handgun would have to be on the Certified Roster of Handguns, unless otherwise exempted pursant to Penal Codes 12132 and 12133. You can read these penal codes in their entirety in on line publication, DANGEROUS WEAPONS CONTROL LAWS, found on our website>www.ag.ca.gov/firearms (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms).

Sally Carney, Field Representative
Firearms Division

This basically means that if I had dual residency in Colorado, I couldn't transfer my HK MK23 to my CA residency, even if I didn't have a threaded barrel?

xenophobe
03-19-2006, 11:11 PM
Each lie on a 4473 is an offense punishable by 2 years, from what I was told by an ATF agent. The reasons there are so many questions is that when someone prohibited decides to lie, trying to buy firearms from numerous sources, the Feds collect these 4473's and add up the lies and charge them for each one. We've had a number of 4473 requests due to this very matter.

If you have family out of state, you can always get an id where they live, if they feel like letting you violate the law, that is.

magsnubby
03-20-2006, 8:25 PM
This is the e-mail i sent to the DOJ:

If a person is a legal resident of California and has vacation property in Arizona and buys a handgun in Arizona (providing he has documentation proving he is an Arizona resident) what would be involved in bringing the gun back to California? Would it have to be on the "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale"? it would be for personal use and not for resale.

This was the answer:

Dear Mr. Higgins:

A California resident does not aquire (that is, take possession of) firearms out of state. If you lawfully purchased a firearm in Arizona and qualify as an Arizona resident, then you maintain the firearm purchase in the state you purchased it in. If you wish to transfer your firearms into California, have them sent to a dealer in your area who will process the needed paperwork. Also the California dealer can ensure you are in compliance with California firearms laws and not acquiring a firearm that a California resident may not lawfully acquire. The handgun would have to be on the Certified Roster of Handguns, unless otherwise exempted by Penal Codes 12132 and 12133. You can read these penal codes in their entirety in the online publication , DANGEROUS WEAPONS CONTROL LAWS found on our website:www.ag.cal.gov/firearms.

Sally Carney, Field Representative
Firearms Division

TheMan
03-20-2006, 11:05 PM
Dear Mr. Higgins:

A California resident does not aquire (that is, take possession of) firearms out of state. If you lawfully purchased a firearm in Arizona and qualify as an Arizona resident, then you maintain the firearm purchase in the state you purchased it in. If you wish to transfer your firearms into California, have them sent to a dealer in your area who will process the needed paperwork. Also the California dealer can ensure you are in compliance with California firearms laws and not acquiring a firearm that a California resident may not lawfully acquire. The handgun would have to be on the Certified Roster of Handguns, unless otherwise exempted by Penal Codes 12132 and 12133. You can read these penal codes in their entirety in the online publication , DANGEROUS WEAPONS CONTROL LAWS found on our website:www.ag.cal.gov/firearms.


Sally Carney, Field Representative
Firearms Division

She even gave you a fake website address, you know she was up to no good ;)

I may be incorrect in this, but I suspect the reason she said that a California resident couldn't acquire firearms out of state is because MOST firearms transactions(not ALL like the DOJ claims here (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#7) ) have to go through the DROS process, if you are a California resident. And even though you are a resident in that other state, you are still a CA resident, so you have to abide by the CA laws with respect to purchasing a gun you will be possessing in CA.

If you had a residence out of state, and got a firearm in that state through a method that did not legally require a DROS, maybe then it would satisfy the requirements of being a legal CA transaction?

For instance, according to the DOJ website, CA does not require DROS for firearms transactions between spouses, or immediate family(parent-child, or grandparent-grandchild only). Suppose you had a dual residency in NV, and your parent who lived there also, gave you a long gun. What CA law would you be in violation of if you brought it back to CA?

andywoolcott
03-20-2006, 11:31 PM
I'm no lawyer, but in this thread I've seen some comments like "but whose to say you hadn't lived there xx years" or "no one can tell you didn't take that gun out of the state first". This is a public forum and I bet DOJ reads it. Im new here but sometimnes a differnt way of looking at things canhelp.

Rascal
03-21-2006, 7:14 PM
So when I bring a gun into Ka. I am importing it, I'm not a business just a private party taxpayer.
Are you saying it has to be on the approved certified for dummies list or I have to leave it at the border?

No filing of the Form 4100?

As a citizen of California, I cannot buy a handgun in Nevada?

Vick

If you owned the handgun, (No listed in the safe handguns list), before moving into Kalifornia, you CAN bring it into the state, but have to register it within 30 days, and pay the $19.00 per handgun to Cal DOJ. It is legal to own and import it into Kalifornia, if you are becoming a resident of this fine state.

You may NOT import magazines with a capasity of greater than 10 rounds into the state for any reason, residency or not. They MUST stay behind.

A Kali citizen Can buy a handgun in Nevada, IF it is on the Cal certified list, but it MUST be sent to a Cal FFL and you MUST DROS it in Kalifornia, wait your 10 days, then you can pick it up.

xenophobe
03-21-2006, 8:50 PM
If a person is a legal resident of California and has vacation property in Arizona and buys a handgun in Arizona (providing he has documentation proving he is an Arizona resident) what would be involved in bringing the gun back to California? Would it have to be on the "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale"? it would be for personal use and not for resale.


You would need to keep it unloaded, in a locked container, and once reaching the state, submit a Voluntary Registration Form, which I now see is convienently not on the list anymore and replaced with a New Resident Handgun Report... hmm... it was there earlier this year... Anyways, I found it:

Voluntary Registration PDF:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

shin_en
10-17-2006, 10:19 PM
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I have a question. If you have dual residency, say CA and NV, and if you give up residency from NV, could you transfer your firearms to CA when moving everything over?

grammaton76
10-17-2006, 11:15 PM
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I have a question. If you have dual residency, say CA and NV, and if you give up residency from NV, could you transfer your firearms to CA when moving everything over?

You can't bring AW's into CA. Also, if you transfer any guns from out of state to CA, you have to pay the $19 personal handgun importer fee. I believe you have to pay number-of-handguns * $19, when importing handguns.

shin_en
10-17-2006, 11:34 PM
Sorry, I meant handguns not on the list. Can I transfer them if I give up residency from a free state?

xenophobe
10-18-2006, 12:26 AM
Sorry, I meant handguns not on the list. Can I transfer them if I give up residency from a free state?

Yes.

For example, if you were a soldier stationed in California and live here, but you are a resident of another state and decide to move here permanently, yes, you may bring your non-banned weapons, and you cannot bring any high-capacity magazines.

shin_en
10-18-2006, 7:56 AM
This is more of the situation that I'm looking at:

My sister is moving to NV for a year for a job. As I am helping her out with some payments (aka utilities) and would probably spend more time there, I'm wondering if I could get dual residency w/NV. I'd like to purchase some pistols, and when her tenure in NV is over, give up my NV residency and bring those pistols back. Legal?

xenophobe
10-18-2006, 9:52 AM
This is more of the situation that I'm looking at:

My sister is moving to NV for a year for a job. As I am helping her out with some payments (aka utilities) and would probably spend more time there, I'm wondering if I could get dual residency w/NV. I'd like to purchase some pistols, and when her tenure in NV is over, give up my NV residency and bring those pistols back. Legal?

When it comes to firearms purchasers, you are a resident of one state, or another, and listen to the DOJ letter posted above.

Of course, you CAN get your ID there, buy guns there and bring them back here. Who is going to stop you. However, you will be breaking a number of State and Federal laws.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-18-2006, 6:29 PM
Of course, you CAN get your ID there, buy guns there and bring them back here. Who is going to stop you. However, you will be breaking a number of State and Federal laws.
Of course you "CAN" fill a U-haul full of pot and drive it across the border. It may be "POSSIBLE" to do so. Pretty sure it's not legal tho.

xenophobe
10-18-2006, 7:53 PM
Of course you "CAN" fill a U-haul full of pot and drive it across the border. It may be "POSSIBLE" to do so. Pretty sure it's not legal tho.

I'm damn sure it's not legal.

shin_en
10-18-2006, 8:29 PM
So it's probably best to just have her purchase pistols and transfer them to me when she comes back...

itsnt4me
01-08-2007, 11:09 AM
I have a quick question. I have looked at the Nevada gun laws but wanted to check to make sure I understand them. If a person were to visit a Nevada Gun Show and buy an assault rifle from a collector or private vendor would the buyer have to show any ID? Thanks.

kenc9
01-08-2007, 11:21 AM
I have a quick question. I have looked at the Nevada gun laws but wanted to check to make sure I understand them. If a person were to visit a Nevada Gun Show and buy an assault rifle from a collector or private vendor would the buyer have to show any ID? Thanks.

What is legal and if they ask for IDs are two different things. I was in Texas at a gun show a while back I asked some guys selling their own pistols on a table and I asked if the Makarov was a C&R? He says a C and what? They could not have cared less where I was from.

-ken

SemiAutoSam
01-08-2007, 11:35 AM
How does a California State Citizen register their handguns if they are not A "U.S. Citizen" ? this form does not leave room for someone that is a California State Citizen. But has not declared their U.S. citizenship status. Maybe Richard McDonald would know.

Gene ? Bill ?



Voluntary Registration PDF:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

itsnt4me
01-08-2007, 11:50 AM
What is legal and if they ask for IDs are two different things. I was in Texas at a gun show a while back I asked some guys selling their own pistols on a table and I asked if the Makarov was a C&R? He says a C and what? They could not have cared less where I was from.

-ken

Ken, thanks for the fast response. Waiting for my C&R. Been a month now.

hoffmang
01-08-2007, 11:50 AM
Sam,

I think Ca_brit would be a better guesser on that one. It may need a CA DOJ question/letter.

-Gene

SemiAutoSam
01-08-2007, 11:56 AM
I think the answer would be in the California Constitution 1849 article two section one listed under the rights of suffrage.

Gene what makes you think Ca_brit would know more about this than our resident legal guru (YES YOU)?

Does any ring any bells ?

Sam,

I think Ca_brit would be a better guesser on that one. It may need a CA DOJ question/letter.

-Gene