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View Full Version : US Gun store owner charged with supplying AW's to Mexico


Texas Boy
02-25-2009, 8:35 PM
Do you guys remember this lovely piece of journalism:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=145411&page=5&highlight=mexico

Well, the story is unfortunately getting more credible:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26borders.html

No more talk about grenade launchers and such, but talk of evil "Assault Weapons", "military style rifles" and even handguns making their way to Mexican drug cartels from US gun stores. To top it off, an Arizona gun dealer is facing charges of providing AK's and other firearms to straw buyers for Mexican drug lords. The evidence presented in the article doesn't sound very convincing - stuff like "moved from CA to AZ be cause the gun laws were more lenient" (duh! so would most gun owners if they could) and "helped buyers complete the forms" (sounds like a typical gun store that knows they will get in trouble for abbreviations and other silly items on the DROS). No idea if this guy is innocent or not, but either way not good 2A publicity.

Just the sort of PR campaign needed to get more anti 2A laws passed. :mad:

hoffmang
02-25-2009, 8:37 PM
Could he be an ex-Calgunner? :eek:

-Gene

Paladin
02-25-2009, 9:09 PM
Sounds like a good reason for us to secure our borders. :p

Oops, sorry, I was thinking rationally. Of course it is far better to strip American's of their 2nd A RKBA and get those ugly black rifles off the streets. Doesn't that just make you feel better? :rolleyes:

Dr Rockso
02-25-2009, 9:13 PM
Can this seriously be the way that 'they' are going to try and argue for a ban? It's just so stupid....

yellowfin
02-25-2009, 9:32 PM
Can this seriously be the way that 'they' are going to try and argue for a ban? It's just so stupid...."They" would recite pages from the phone book and call that a reason for a ban.

Stormfeather
02-25-2009, 9:36 PM
Can this seriously be the way that 'they' are going to try and argue for a ban? It's just so stupid....

They already have. . . .

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=6960824

ABC News
Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban
The Ban Expired in 2004 During the Bush Administration.
By JASON RYAN

WASHINGTON, Feb. 25, 2009—

The Obama administration will seek to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 during the Bush administration, Attorney General Eric Holder said today.

"As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons," Holder told reporters.

Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.

"I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum." Holder said at a news conference on the arrest of more than 700 people in a drug enforcement crackdown on Mexican drug cartels operating in the U.S.

Mexican government officials have complained that the availability of sophisticated guns from the United States have emboldened drug traffickers to fight over access routes into the U.S.

A State Department travel warning issued Feb. 20, 2009, reflected government concerns about the violence.

"Some recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and grenades," the warning said. "Large firefights have taken place in many towns and cities across Mexico, but most recently in northern Mexico, including Tijuana, Chihuahua City and Ciudad Juarez."

At the news conference today, Holder described his discussions with his Mexican counterpart about the recent spike in violence.

"I met yesterday with Attorney General Medina Mora of Mexico, and we discussed the unprecedented levels of violence his country is facing because of their enforcement efforts," he said.

Holder declined to offer any time frame for the reimplementation of the assault weapons ban, however.

"It's something, as I said, that the president talked about during the campaign," he said. "There are obviously a number of things that are -- that have been taking up a substantial amount of his time, and so, I'm not sure exactly what the sequencing will be."

In a brief interview with ABC News, Wayne LaPierre, president of the National Rifle Association, said, "I think there are a lot of Democrats on Capitol Hill cringing at Eric Holder's comments right now."

During his confirmation hearing, Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee about other gun control measures the Obama administration may consider.

"I think closing the gun show loophole, the banning of cop-killer bullets and I also think that making the assault weapons ban permanent, would be something that would be permitted under Heller," Holder said, referring to the Supreme Court ruling in Washington, D.C. v. Heller, which asserted the Second Amendment as an individual's right to own a weapon.

The Assault Weapons Ban signed into law by President Clinton in 1994 banned 19 types of semi-automatic military-style guns and ammunition clips with more than 10 rounds.

"A semi-automatic is a quintessential self-defense firearm owned by American citizens in this country," LaPierre said. "I think it is clearly covered under Heller and it's clearly, I think, protected by the Constitution."

Copyright © 2009 ABC News Internet Ventures

halifax
02-25-2009, 9:39 PM
This dealer is a tool and deserves everything coming to him. He is going to be the poster boy for the next volley of repressive gun laws and crack downs. Thanks buttwad :mad:

Dark&Good
02-25-2009, 9:51 PM
That dealer might not even exist.

lavgrunt
02-25-2009, 10:10 PM
DANG!!! Oh, he exists!!! The 'dealer' had a store, under the same name, 'X-Caliber' on Beach Blvd and the 405 FWY in Huntington Beach/Westminster.....Been there a few times with some friends, but never bought anything. This was pre 9/11 and he always had a bunch of Middle Eastern guys hanging out in his shop.........Well, good riddence.....scum!!!

Dark&Good
02-25-2009, 10:47 PM
So that's why he was picked by "them" to justify "their" gun control... :D

Now seriously, I like my Middle Eastern friends.

lavgrunt
02-25-2009, 10:52 PM
LOL !!! Sorry......I meant the dealer is scum...not his friends!!! That sounded sooooo wrong!!!........I think the dealer was actually Armenian.......I love hummus and fallafel......!!!!

DDT
02-25-2009, 11:57 PM
This is very disturbing. It is starting to sound like a coordinated attack on our gun rights. Do you really think that it is completely coincidental that this is happening all at once? I don't think it is even separated temporally enough to be causal. This smells like a set up. (not the charges, it sounds like he may truly be a scumball)

EOD Guy
02-26-2009, 7:56 AM
That dealer might not even exist.

He exists. I bought a rifle at his shop when I resided in Arizona.

Since it was a single shot trapdoor Springfield replica, I doubt the BATF will be interested.

vrand
02-26-2009, 8:11 AM
That dealer might not even exist.

bingo

The Gov./Tyrants "creates" the problem, then offers a "solution."

vrand
02-26-2009, 8:14 AM
This is very disturbing. It is starting to sound like a coordinated attack on our gun rights. Do you really think that it is completely coincidental that this is happening all at once? I don't think it is even separated temporally enough to be causal. This smells like a set up. (not the charges, it sounds like he may truly be a scumball)

Typical behavior of tyrants...

X-NewYawker
02-26-2009, 8:44 AM
Can this seriously be the way that 'they' are going to try and argue for a ban? It's just so stupid....

No. it's brilliant. Dems always need a crisis to hang these laws on -- 1600 people kidnapped fro US border states last year -- Mexican government about to collapse -- headlines and news stories everywhere -- and here comes O man to solve the problem by taking guns away from Americans! Yay! -- expect a special from CNN on what a great idea this is.

X-NewYawker
02-26-2009, 8:45 AM
oh and today the Senate starts debating brining back "the Fairness Doctrine" so the truth of what they are doing can't get out.

Thanks again, ROn Paul Voters!

Glock22Fan
02-26-2009, 9:06 AM
Saw a news clip on TV a couple of weeks back about the influx of arms to Mexico. One of the fleeting shots was said to be a cargo intercepted in Long Beach. Looked like several hundred black rifles, all the same, all new, all lined up as if they had come straight out of the manufacturer's bulk ship cartons.

Seems to me that (if it wasn't faked up) that wasn't just the result of a few straw buyers. If it was real it was a large commercial shipment and should have been easy to trace.

Dr Rockso
02-26-2009, 9:10 AM
oh and today the Senate starts debating brining back "the Fairness Doctrine" so the truth of what they are doing can't get out.

Thanks again, ROn Paul Voters!
You're blaming Ron Paul for this?

stag1500
02-26-2009, 9:17 AM
You're blaming Ron Paul for this?

No kidding! The only place Ron Paul votes could have cost a state for McCain was Montana. And McCain still won that stae. Fellas, get over it. Now is not the time to cause dissension.

Glock22Fan
02-26-2009, 9:41 AM
No kidding! The only place Ron Paul votes could have cost a state for McCain was Montana. And McCain still won that stae. Fellas, get over it. Now is not the time to cause dissension.

I agree we shouldn't fight about it, but let's face it, Ron Paul voters didn't know the poll result in advance; for all they knew at the time, they could have done more damage than they did.

CCWFacts
02-26-2009, 9:54 AM
I saw that.

Folks, we need to face the reality: there are some rogue FFLs out there who are causing a lot of harm to the US, to Mexico, and ultimately to gun rights.

I, for one, do not leap to the defense of FFLs when I hear the BATF is shutting one of them down. The bulk of FFLs are in the "straight and narrow", but there's a small sliver of them who are really crooked, and the BATF should vigorously shut them down. BATF shutdowns of FFLs are usually something a lot more serious than a 20-year-old paperwork error or forgetting to spell out the full name of the state on a form. I know people like to claim or imagine that some FFL got a raw deal and was shut down over trivial paperwork errors, but I think we're deluding ourselves to believe that that's all there is to the story.

The Brady campaign is right on this issue: shutting down (and charging, where appropriate) corrupt FFLs would be a major victory for public safety. It would also be a victory for gun rights.

Cypren
02-26-2009, 10:05 AM
The Brady campaign is right on this issue: shutting down (and charging, where appropriate) corrupt FFLs would be a major victory for public safety. It would also be a victory for gun rights.

Agreed. I dislike the ATF, their un-Constitutional infringement of our guaranteed rights and their hostility to gun owners. But I don't disagree that the bureau does need to exist; I just wish they'd focus their attention on the real criminals instead of disarming honest citizens.

CCWFacts
02-26-2009, 10:19 AM
This is very disturbing. It is starting to sound like a coordinated attack on our gun rights. Do you really think that it is completely coincidental that this is happening all at once? I don't think it is even separated temporally enough to be causal. This smells like a set up. (not the charges, it sounds like he may truly be a scumball)

It's not a set-up. There are enough corrupt, criminal FFLs out there that they don't need to do a set-up. Come on, we need to really accept to ourselves that there are rotten FFLs out there and we should be cheering when the BATF takes them down.

I would guess it's less than 1% of FFLs that are rotten like this, but that < 1% causes a lot of harm to everyone, especially to our rights.

Taking down rotten FFLs is a very legitimate and laudable activity of the BATF. I know gun owners love to hate the BATF, but if the BATF would focus 100% on this type of activity, then we should be cheering for them.

Two Shots
02-26-2009, 10:26 AM
The ease with which Mr. Iknadosian and two other men transported weapons to Mexico over a two-year period illustrates just how difficult it is to stop the illicit trade, law enforcement officials here say.

If he did all this then **** him and let them hang this P.O.S and any other FFL that's operating the same way. All they're doing is screwing the legal gun owners and helping the Gov get reasons to ban weapons. The Gov is just as much to blame for the smuggling by not enforcing the deportation laws and securing the borders.

Alaric
02-26-2009, 10:32 AM
This was just posted in the other thread discussing this, in off-topic: Pelosi tosses cold water on assault-weapon ban (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/pelosi-tosses-cold-water-on-reviving-assault-weapon-ban-2009-02-26.html)

Can'thavenuthingood
02-26-2009, 10:51 AM
This was just posted in the other thread discussing this, in off-topic: Pelosi tosses cold water on assault-weapon ban (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/pelosi-tosses-cold-water-on-reviving-assault-weapon-ban-2009-02-26.html)

Well thats good to hear and read. The dems did take it in the shorts over that '96 ban.
On the other hand doing it again would be interesting.

Vick

stillnotbob
02-26-2009, 11:25 AM
" President Felipe Calderón has characterized the stream of smuggled weapons as one of the most significant threats to security in his country. "

REALLY??? How about working on the drugs that FREELY flow into our country from Mexico!!!! You want us to give up our constitutional rights to help your country out? Yet you and everyone else in Mexico don't seem to care about all the drugs flowing North.

CA_Libertarian
02-26-2009, 11:25 AM
This is very disturbing. It is starting to sound like a coordinated attack on our gun rights...

Just now starting to sound like a coordinated attack? LOL. It's been a coordinated attack for the 28 years I've been alive. I do agree it is becoming more aggressive, and perhaps better coordinated.

pnkssbtz
02-26-2009, 11:32 AM
I read the article. It mentions over and over how he was "supplying" guns to the mexican mafia.

What I failed to read, (please correct me if I am wrong) is if he sold guns illegally. If, say, he legally sold guns to people who then used them illegally, how is he responsible?

Smugglers routinely enlist Americans with clean criminal records to buy two or three rifles at a time, often from different shops, then transport them across the border in cars and trucks, often secreting them in door panels or under the hood, law enforcement officials here say. Some of the smuggled weapons are also bought from private individuals at gun shows, and the law requires no notification of the authorities in those cases.
How is it's the gun dealers fault if the guy he sold guns to did so legally?


The article implies that the owner drove the guns over to mexico himself but it conveniently ads "and two others" in an open ended sentence designed to imply the first subject is doing the actions of the others.

The ease with which Mr. Iknadosian and two other men transported weapons to Mexico over a two-year period illustrates just how difficult it is to stop the illicit trade, law enforcement officials here say.


This is the telling part of the article:
Mr. Iknadosian is accused of being one of those dealers. So brazen was his operation that the smugglers paid him in advance for the guns and the straw buyers merely filled out the required paperwork and carried the weapons off, according to A.T.F. investigative reports.
Looks to me like the guy did nothing wrong.

Looks to me like some guy on the internet would buy something and ship it to his FFL. Then some joe schmoe with a clean record comes in and claims picking the item up. Does the forms, clears by atf and walks out with the gun.

Then hands it over to the mafia.


Since when was it wrong for legally eligble firearm owners to pay in advance before receiving a firearm? I thought when you order stuff it's not uncommon to pay in advance, at least part of the balance?


Article is F.U.D. this is simply a witch hunt.

yellowfin
02-26-2009, 11:37 AM
It's a lot easier to coordinate considering the media is in lock step with the agenda.

Aegis
02-26-2009, 12:37 PM
" President Felipe Calderón has characterized the stream of smuggled weapons as one of the most significant threats to security in his country. "

REALLY??? How about working on the drugs that FREELY flow into our country from Mexico!!!! You want us to give up our constitutional rights to help your country out? Yet you and everyone else in Mexico don't seem to care about all the drugs flowing North.

Or the millions of illegal aliens that are burdening the US taxpayers. Not to mention the thousands of illegal aliens in jail and prison who have committed crimes against US citizens.

Jbox
02-26-2009, 2:28 PM
I read the article. It mentions over and over how he was "supplying" guns to the mexican mafia.

What I failed to read, (please correct me if I am wrong) is if he sold guns illegally. If, say, he legally sold guns to people who then used them illegally, how is he responsible?


How is it's the gun dealers fault if the guy he sold guns to did so legally?


The article implies that the owner drove the guns over to mexico himself but it conveniently ads "and two others" in an open ended sentence designed to imply the first subject is doing the actions of the others.




This is the telling part of the article:

Looks to me like the guy did nothing wrong.

Looks to me like some guy on the internet would buy something and ship it to his FFL. Then some joe schmoe with a clean record comes in and claims picking the item up. Does the forms, clears by atf and walks out with the gun.

Then hands it over to the mafia.


Since when was it wrong for legally eligble firearm owners to pay in advance before receiving a firearm? I thought when you order stuff it's not uncommon to pay in advance, at least part of the balance?


Article is F.U.D. this is simply a witch hunt.

Dude if your going to quote something dont do it out of context or at the very least read the entire article

"Mr. Iknadosian is accused of being one of those dealers. So brazen was his operation that the smugglers paid him in advance for the guns and the straw buyers merely filled out the required paperwork and carried the weapons off, according to A.T.F. investigative reports. The agency said Mr. Iknadosian also sold several guns to undercover agents who had explicitly informed him that they intended to resell them in Mexico."

Seems pretty clear to me that this guys intentions were to make money at whatever cost and we are supposed to pity him?????? This guy is doing nothing to help law abiding citizens retain the little rights we have left and he will be the poster boy for the AW ban. Pick your battles people....

Dark&Good
02-26-2009, 4:54 PM
Our lawmakers should deal with the real problems instead of justifying their agenda of disarming the people. Is the 2A the real problem? No. Is buying (or selling) firearms the real problem? No. Is the size of the magazines a real problem? No. Is corruption a problem? Yes. Is lack of proper education a problem? Yes.
The agenda of those lawmakers who wanna make it hard, or impossible, for us to own firearms, is just as big of a problem as the agenda of those drug cartels.

Cypren
02-26-2009, 5:27 PM
Our lawmakers should deal with the real problems instead of justifying their agenda of disarming the people. Is the 2A the real problem? No. Is buying (or selling) firearms the real problem? No. Is the size of the magazines a real problem? No. Is corruption a problem? Yes. Is lack of proper education a problem? Yes.

But the problem is that addressing the real issues would require corrupt lawmakers giving up perks, privileges, bribes, power and -- god forbid -- if they actually fix the problems, there won't be so many angry voters they can make promises to in order to get re-elected!

TheDM
02-26-2009, 5:34 PM
oh and today the Senate starts debating brining back "the Fairness Doctrine" so the truth of what they are doing can't get out.

Thanks again, ROn Paul Voters!

IMHO

I will respectfully disagree. Everyone needs to vote for the best person for the job, the parties both aren't what they used to be, nor do they reflect us as a representative body. I voted for the person who represented ME. Not the sticker I have on my car, not the sign in my yard, not the party I've voted for every election blindly without question. I looked at the way each candidate voted, I looked at his goals, his concerns and heard how passionate each was about their stands and I PICKED one.

And I picked the right one. Don't blame anyone else for who you picked, because enough people didn't pick the way you picked. I know I picked right.

Ron Paul was worried about what #1?

The Economy.

Everything he said would happen, has happened.

Everything everyone expected of Obama, he has done.

McCain picked a poor choice for a Vice President.

McCain is a terrible orator.

Both main stream parties and media and the network ignored Ron Paul as a crack pot, and positioned the reporting and the quotes and the highlights to make him look stupid but he was dead on and 100% right about what we were about to face, not more than 6 months later even.

As I knew he was.

Best way to keep American Firearms out of foreign hands, SELL THEM TO AMERICANS!

Dark&Good
02-26-2009, 8:22 PM
+1 on that.
I can't vote (yet), but I asked a few people what they thought about Ron Paul, and what did I get? "There will only be about 50,000 people voting for him anyway - he's got no chances".
Yeah, because of people who think this way, for example.

After voting against their own best interests, I hope those people don't blame Obama or anybody else for what's "happening to them"... poor victims, LMAO