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CalCop
02-25-2009, 9:14 PM
ATLANTA Three former Atlanta police officers who each pleaded guilty to a federal conspiracy charge in connection with the death of an elderly woman during a botched drug raid were sentenced Tuesday to federal prison...
http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/1789734-Atlanta-officers-sentenced-in-deadly-raid/

56Chevy
02-25-2009, 10:12 PM
You'd probably get a longer sentence if you were caught importing hi-caps.

tyrist
02-25-2009, 10:28 PM
They would have been okay until they started to fabricate evidence to cover it up. Morons...got what they deserved don't need idiots like that running around.

EOD3
02-25-2009, 10:42 PM
Any word on how great, great grandma managed to get off a shot at two "weapons drawn" officers serving a no-knock? I'd also like to know which one of them reloaded...

Dr Rockso
02-25-2009, 10:58 PM
Play stupid games.... Unfortunately the 'stupid prizes' were a lot worse for Kathryn Johnston and her family. These no-knocks have to stop.

DDT
02-26-2009, 1:17 AM
They would have been okay until they started to fabricate evidence to cover it up. Morons...got what they deserved don't need idiots like that running around.

Same thing that nailed the border patrol officers. If you go back to a scene and try to change the evidence it is clear sign that you believe you did something wrong. A guilty conscience.

savageevo
02-26-2009, 7:15 AM
All I have to say is Karma is *****

ilbob
02-26-2009, 7:20 AM
They would have been okay until they started to fabricate evidence to cover it up. Morons...got what they deserved don't need idiots like that running around.

Maybe not. they fabricated the evidence for the warrant too. I think they figured out that was going to be scrutinized when they realized they had murdered an innocent person.

They should have been charged with murder 1 and dealt with accordingly.

truthseeker
02-26-2009, 7:47 AM
Another reason to abolish no knock warrants! I know if plain clothes police officers entered my home and did not identify themselves as such (I do NOT know if that happened in this case) I would fire on them!

Why can't they just wait for the suspected person to leave the house to go somewhere and apprehend them at such a time? After they have the suspect in cuffs they can search the house for whatever it is they are looking to find.

CCWFacts
02-26-2009, 7:57 AM
They should have been charged with murder 1 and dealt with accordingly.

Federal civil rights charges are the only practical option for prosecuting LEOs who commit murder while on duty. Murder charges just don't stick to LEOs (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/15/MN2615QD01.DTL) when the action occurs while on-duty.

It is a shame that we have ended up with a two-category justice system, where conduct that would be a slam-dunk conviction on a non-LEO would have no chance of sticking if a LEO did the same thing while on duty. (For off-duty cops vs. non-cops, for serious charges like murder, it seems like the handling of it is quite fair.)

As for no-knock warrants: Yeah, they're grossly over-used and they endanger both the suspects and the officers serving them. In this incident, an innocent "suspect" died and three cops have their lives destroyed. If they had just knocked on the door, it would have ended well for all parties. No-knocks plus the fact that they had to make arrest quotas are a lethal combination.

Meplat
02-26-2009, 11:52 AM
The real problem is the judges that issue these warrants. I have read so many warrants (including the WACO warrant) that are obvious purple smoke and rainbows blown up some judges arse it is ludicrous. If you start prosecuting the people who write these warrant requests no-knock would be rare safe and legal.

Meplat
02-26-2009, 12:00 PM
It's not as glamorous! Show Time!!:p



Another reason to abolish no knock warrants! I know if plain clothes police officers entered my home and did not identify themselves as such (I do NOT know if that happened in this case) I would fire on them!

Why can't they just wait for the suspected person to leave the house to go somewhere and apprehend them at such a time? After they have the suspect in cuffs they can search the house for whatever it is they are looking to find.

CA_Libertarian
02-26-2009, 12:02 PM
It is my understanding that the entire premise of a no-knock warrant is to preserve evidence. IMO, bagging even the most vile drug dealer is not worth the risk to officers, suspects, and innocent bystanders in neighboring houses (34 rounds went down range beyond the target in this case).

I really think this comes down to a change that has occurred in LE culture. 50 years ago LE knew and endured the risks involved with serving the public without trampling rights and endangering the public.

We seriously need to ask ourselves: is it worth it? I would rather not end up in a shootout with guys in plain clothes - who claim to be cops - who kicked in my front door at 3:00 AM.

As for cover ups, how often does it happen and they don't get caught?

socal2310
02-26-2009, 12:28 PM
I seriously doubt that most criminals are sophisticated enough to efficiently dispose of enough incriminating evidence to avoid charges in the few seconds it takes for police to announce themselves and break down the door.

Unfortunately, we probably won't see an end to this until a child in an innocent family is killed.

Ryan

CCWFacts
02-26-2009, 12:32 PM
It is my understanding that the entire premise of a no-knock warrant is to preserve evidence.

That's right. Drug crimes are almost unique in that there are no complaining victims and the evidence of the crime can be flushed away very quickly. That's how no-knocks started. But the no-knock warrants are more dangerous to the cops, to the suspects, and to society in general than the drugs themselves.

IMO, bagging even the most vile drug dealer is not worth the risk to officers, suspects, and innocent bystanders in neighboring houses (34 rounds went down range beyond the target in this case).

Yes. They should either get them by doing a buy, or get them for some other crime (using violence against someone), or they should leave the whole situation alone. We've just had a bill introduced here to legalize pot in California (it would still be federally-illegal). Given the current economic situation here, and the fact that we have a court order to early release about 1/3 of our prisoners, I'm glad to see someone is doing a cost-benefits analysis of going after pot. Maybe we could apply similar scrutiny to no-knock warrants and some other excesses.

I really think this comes down to a change that has occurred in LE culture. 50 years ago LE knew and endured the risks involved with serving the public without trampling rights and endangering the public.

And fifty years ago there was no War on Drugs which both justified and "necessitated" such things.

We seriously need to ask ourselves: is it worth it?

Ron Paul asked that question!

I would rather not end up in a shootout with guys in plain clothes - who claim to be cops - who kicked in my front door at 3:00 AM.

Yeah. That is a no-win situation. Criminals can and do yell "police" as they do a home invasion. If I were a criminal, I would, just to make the guy hesitate long enough for me to get a shot off. So someone in his home has a choice of either risking getting shot by criminals or perhaps risking shooting a police officer and spending life in prison (http://www.reason.com/news/show/36869.html).

That's one of the risks of our AW registration system. It might lead the cops to use SWAT teams to serve warrants on peaceful, law-abiding gun owners. I think they did that in the case of that guy arrested for AWs at LAX, when he seemed like the type who would have shown up if they had sent him a summons in the mail.

Meplat
02-26-2009, 12:48 PM
Children in innocent Families have already been killed. Guess again.

I seriously doubt that most criminals are sophisticated enough to efficiently dispose of enough incriminating evidence to avoid charges in the few seconds it takes for police to announce themselves and break down the door.

Unfortunately, we probably won't see an end to this until a child in an innocent family is killed.

Ryan

Cypren
02-26-2009, 12:48 PM
That's one of the risks of our AW registration system. It might lead the cops to use SWAT teams to serve warrants on peaceful, law-abiding gun owners. I think they did that in the case of that guy arrested for AWs at LAX, when he seemed like the type who would have shown up if they had sent him a summons in the mail.

The guy you're talking about is Phil Dominguez, and yes, LAPD SWAT raided his house (http://sensiblyprogressive.blogspot.com/2009/01/anti-gun-la-police-and-visit-from-swat.html) (despite the fact that he lives outside their jurisdiction) on the excuse that he had registered "assault weapons". They also confiscated all of his family's legally-owned weapons, including those which were not registered to him, and attempted to threaten him with charges for having unregistered weapons because some of the guns taken from the house were registered in his wife's name rather than his own.

Sometimes I think we could replace the LAPD with the Mafia and it would result in less thuggish behavior by the supposed law enforcement.

fleegman
02-26-2009, 1:03 PM
The real problem is the judges that issue these warrants. I have read so many warrants (including the WACO warrant) that are obvious purple smoke and rainbows blown up some judges arse it is ludicrous. If you start prosecuting the people who write these warrant requests no-knock would be rare safe and legal.

I respectfully disagree. The real problem is the cavalier and dismissive attitude of LEO when one of their own kill innocent people in their homes (I saw this first hand in the Robin Pratt murder in Everett, WA). This will only change when more and more LEO are killed or wounded while invading peoples homes. They will then be the ones pushing to end this nonsense.

strangerdude
02-26-2009, 1:11 PM
I'm glad that they are going to jail, better use powdered soap!

JDoe
02-26-2009, 1:13 PM
Unfortunately, we probably won't see an end to this until a child in an innocent family is killed

orly?

Modesto police said Saturday that 11-year-old (http://home.pacbell.net/rsdotson/gov/govkills/Sepulveda.htm) Alberto Sepulveda was lying face down in his bedroom, complying with police orders, when he was fatally shot Wednesday morning by a SWAT team member.

Meplat
02-26-2009, 1:22 PM
Thank you.

orly?

Cypren
02-26-2009, 1:47 PM
This will only change when more and more LEO are killed or wounded while invading peoples homes. They will then be the ones pushing to end this nonsense.

Look up the cases of Ryan Frederick in Chesapeake, VA or Cory Maye in Prentiss, Mississippi. Unfortunately, in both of these cases, when police served a no-knock warrant and (according to the defendants) failed to identify themselves, resulting in a dead officer, the departments covered up evidence, abused the defendants, and in the Frederick case, apparently solicited perjury from multiple informants to secure a conviction of the "cop killer". The behavior of the police departments was shameful, both in the execution of the raids and the subsequent cover-ups, and their determination to ensure that innocent men were sent to death row as retribution for their killing of police officers who they believed to be home invaders.

Don't look for any kind of change of heart coming from law enforcement casualties. The lesson they seem to take away, if these two cases are any indication, is that they just needed more firepower and surprise.

socal2310
02-26-2009, 2:09 PM
JDoe,

I said innocent family. The boy may have been innocent, the father evidently was not. I am strongly opposed to the War on Drugs, but in the current climate, people like that are endangering their families.

Stories like that don't elicit sympathy from law and order totalitarian sympathizers (I hasten to add that I am outraged by the story, but most conservatives I know wouldn't particularly care).

Incidentally, is there a follow up story on the possessed gun in that case?

Ryan

JDoe
02-26-2009, 2:31 PM
JDoe,

I said innocent family. The boy may have been innocent, the father evidently was not. I am strongly opposed to the War on Drugs, but in the current climate, people like that are endangering their families.

Stories like that don't elicit sympathy from law and order totalitarian sympathizers (I hasten to add that I am outraged by the story, but most conservatives I know wouldn't particularly care).

Incidentally, is there a follow up story on the possessed gun in that case?

Ryan

:confused:

The family was innocent when the child was shot.

Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law right?

socal2310
02-26-2009, 2:47 PM
:confused:

The family was innocent when the child was shot.

Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law right?


When evil drugs are involved? You're kidding right?

Meplat
02-26-2009, 5:59 PM
:confused: If you are talking about Modesto the kid didn't have a gun. The cop claimed his shotgun went off on it's own. Said he didn't have his finger on the trigger. Department armorer could find nothing wrong with the gun.

BTW: The officer was later promoted to detective.



JDoe,

I said innocent family. The boy may have been innocent, the father evidently was not. I am strongly opposed to the War on Drugs, but in the current climate, people like that are endangering their families.

Stories like that don't elicit sympathy from law and order totalitarian sympathizers (I hasten to add that I am outraged by the story, but most conservatives I know wouldn't particularly care).

Incidentally, is there a follow up story on the possessed gun in that case?

Ryan

CalCop
02-26-2009, 6:42 PM
It is my understanding that the entire premise of a no-knock warrant is to preserve evidence. IMO, bagging even the most vile drug dealer is not worth the risk to officers, suspects, and innocent bystanders in neighboring houses Agreed

We seriously need to ask ourselves: is it worth it? I would rather not end up in a shootout with guys in plain clothes - who claim to be cops - who kicked in my front door at 3:00 AM.I'm a cop and...if someone in plainclothes knocks down my door and says "police" I will shoot them. Am I supposed to just believe the intruder because he says he's a cop?

Unless someone's life is in imminent danger...I don't feel that government intrusion into the home is necessary...there are other ways to get the bad guy.

Kid Stanislaus
02-26-2009, 8:00 PM
The judge said the DA's recommendation for sentencing of one of the defendents was "unduly harsh"!! Fer Chrissake they MURDERED a 92 year old woman and planted evidence!!:mad:

socal2310
02-27-2009, 6:44 AM
I hope you guys don't think I'm defending the officers or anything of that sort, I'm just pointing out that until we have an incident where the child of a squeaky clean All-American WASP family is murdered, there will be no legs on any attempt to stop no knock warrants.

I fear it will take the police barging in on a family, a member of the household shooting at police and return fire killing a kid. In addition it will need to be clear that the police and not their informant made the mistake and that the parents don't have so much as an unpaid parking ticket on their record. Heck, there will probably need to be a news van parked outside the house!

I would love to be proved wrong.

Ryan

ilbob
02-27-2009, 8:02 AM
I hope you guys don't think I'm defending the officers or anything of that sort, I'm just pointing out that until we have an incident where the child of a squeaky clean All-American WASP family is murdered, there will be no legs on any attempt to stop no knock warrants.

I fear it will take the police barging in on a family, a member of the household shooting at police and return fire killing a kid. In addition it will need to be clear that the police and not their informant made the mistake and that the parents don't have so much as an unpaid parking ticket on their record. Heck, there will probably need to be a news van parked outside the house!

I would love to be proved wrong.

Ryan

This has already happeend more than once. Did not matter. Government will go to any lengths to protect its power. Ane LE is the power that keeps the citizenry in check. never forget that. LE does good as well, but the only thing government really cares about is staying in power.

TheBundo
02-28-2009, 9:40 PM
Planting evidence is one of the most vile things a human can do, IMO. Anyone who does that, police or civilian, should be executed, IMO.

56Chevy
02-28-2009, 11:25 PM
Planting evidence is one of the most vile things a human can do, IMO. Anyone who does that, police or civilian, should be executed, IMO.
Yup, it's the only way to keep them from doing it again.

oscarred
03-01-2009, 1:28 AM
So the stupid cops in this case screwed up. Ever hear of 'friendly fire"? everyone on this site plays with guns.Some may have to use them against another one day. Hope the one(s) the F/U (and there will be) can stand and take their punishment and be as cocky as they are on this blog.

socal2310
03-01-2009, 8:36 AM
So the stupid cops in this case screwed up. Ever hear of 'friendly fire"? everyone on this site plays with guns.Some may have to use them against another one day. Hope the one(s) the F/U (and there will be) can stand and take their punishment and be as cocky as they are on this blog.

Baloney, "Friendly Fire" means striking an unintended target in a war zone. If it's a justifiable shoot, your assailant will face charges for any innocent victims of errant gunfire.

I don't think any of us are blaming the officers for the tragedy in and of itself. The officers have been (rightly) castigated for tampering with evidence. Had they owned up to their mistake, they still would have likely lost their jobs, but probably wouldn't have gone to prison.

None of us are under any illusion that the cops actually carrying out these assignments are responsible for the situation. The blame properly lays at the feet of those who authorize such searches: police chiefs who sanction "no knock" warrants and judges who will sign any warrant that will hold still long enough.

Working cops aren't the ones responsible for dysfunctional police culture, but they are the ones who pay the price in blood and community ire.

Ryan

Hoop
03-01-2009, 10:36 AM
You'd probably get a longer sentence if you were caught importing hi-caps.

Prosecutors earlier lowered their recommended sentences for Junnier and Smith. They asked for about 10 years for Smith and roughly five years for Junnier because they said the men cooperated with authorities. Tesler's recommended sentence was not lowered, and was about 10 years.

But the judge said Tuesday Tesler was a "minor participant overall" and lowered the sentence to five years. She said the government's recommendations were "unduly harsh."

Yeah, Gov't prosecutors weren't asking for a lot & the judge even lowered it according to the article.

On the plus side, 10 years jail time where they all know you're a peace officer will probably be lots of fun.

EOD3
03-01-2009, 12:20 PM
Did you ever notice how many "new" members pop up to comment in threads like this? A suspicious person might ask how many are "real" and how many result from lack of testicular fortitude.

Just my BAC

oscarred
03-03-2009, 1:58 AM
Baloney, "Friendly Fire" means striking an unintended target in a war zone. If it's a justifiable shoot, your assailant will face charges for any innocent victims of errant gunfire.

I don't think any of us are blaming the officers for the tragedy in and of itself. The officers have been (rightly) castigated for tampering with evidence. Had they owned up to their mistake, they still would have likely lost their jobs, but probably wouldn't have gone to prison.

None of us are under any illusion that the cops actually carrying out these assignments are responsible for the situation. The blame properly lays at the feet of those who authorize such searches: police chiefs who sanction "no knock" warrants and judges who will sign any warrant that will hold still long enough.

Working cops aren't the ones responsible for dysfunctional police culture, but they are the ones who pay the price in blood and community ire.

Ryan
It seems she (the elder victim) was an unintended target since the cops had poor information and hit the wrong address; thats friendly fire. Just from reading comments on this fiasco, everyone commenting sounds smug. But I'll bet if they were to be involved in something gray they wouldn't be so hard on themselves. The cops went to prison for their corruption, as far as the shooting? Assuming they had no prior intention of murdering a 90 year old woman, it was friendly fire. Anyway comment forever, I'm moving on.

oscarred
03-03-2009, 2:00 AM
Did you ever notice how many "new" members pop up to comment in threads like this? A suspicious person might ask how many are "real" and how many result from lack of testicular fortitude.

Just my BAC

Can you just get to the point and stop lacking testicular fortitude.:p

Gray Peterson
03-03-2009, 2:09 AM
I'm going to get into a lot of trouble politically for even saying this, but these officers are getting off far too light. They should have been convicted of murder and executed, just like they executed Kathryn Johnson, as an example to other law enforcement officers to not violate the civil liberties of individuals, and not to do this kind of crap of planting evidence.

Also, you forget the fact that the cops actually LIED TO THE JUDGE to get a warrant in the first place.

As for the folks saying "Friendly fire", you wouldn't be saying such things if it was your grandmother, your spouse, your children being set up like this. You would call them murderers, and they are.

oscarred
03-04-2009, 2:01 AM
It's a term that was created during Vietnam. It just sounds friendly, it's not. If it was someone I loved it's still a term. I can see from the rest of your post that you give a good solid reason for professional juries.

oscarred
03-04-2009, 2:04 AM
By the way Lonnie, don't they have a Wa-Guns or something? Why are you poaching in Kalifornia?

Gray Peterson
03-04-2009, 10:14 AM
By the way Lonnie, don't they have a Wa-Guns or something? Why are you poaching in Kalifornia?

Oh, I'm sorry, did I come across some sort of rule that Calguns is only for residents of California? Is the Nordyke decision that's upcoming this month only going to effect only California (even though it's 9th Circuit and encompasses 12 states in the west)? Is the fact that California generally discriminates against out of state residents in terms of LTC issuance not an issue for me?

Oh yeah, one more thing, California tends to be "the example" of legislation that's introduced in Washington and Oregon for AW bans, and restrictive licensing for handgun purchases. Not to mention Nordyke will also have an effect on Seattle in terms of their "we're private property therefor no firearms allowed" rule that they've been sitting on.

I believe that I was was the only one that came from out of state (besides Don Kates himself) to watch the Nordyke hearing in San Francisco two months ago. Even flew down from Seattle.

California is part of the United States, and I have a right to travel there with my civil liberties intact.

Quake0
03-04-2009, 5:34 PM
How the hell are no knock Warrants legal? Are police still required to announce that they are police or do they just go in your home guns a blazing?

oscarred
03-07-2009, 2:50 AM
Long post lonnie. You want your civil rights intact across state lines just like you want the guilty Atlanta Cops executed. lonnie wilson; judge, jury executioner. Just make sure he has his civil rights but screw the rights of anyone else. think there's a article about the like of you somewhere in these forums, your labeled a reaction formist. Personally you sound like an angry creep.

thegratenate
03-07-2009, 10:25 AM
I don't get it.

If I go into someones home and shoot them I go to prison forever, but if we ask the same of another, who has been convicted of the crime, as well as attempting to conceal said crime, we are trying to violate their "rights", who the hell is looking out for the rights of the people?

Meplat
03-07-2009, 1:02 PM
Everyone makes mistakes, big and small, in their job. Like with Doctors, cops mistakes sometimes end up in the graveyard. That's just the nature of the job. A big enough mistake may cost you your job, your carrier, maybe even your reputation. So be it. A bad shoot can end up with people dead and lives and carriers ruined. The split second decisions are not easy and people know that. That is why cops (and we all know this is true) get so much slack in these things. But a bad shoot due to a mistake or mabe just an impossible set of circumstances, if handled lawfully, may be a tragedy for all involved, but it's not the end of the world. Bad things can and do happen to the shooter, but if a LEO he is very unlikely to do prison time. If he does it will be very short and sweet. But if handled deceitfully, with perjury, coverup and planted evidence it turns law enforcement into a criminal enterprise. If they had stood up and faced their f-up in the beginning a few lives may have been badly disrupted. But the way they chose to handle it amounts to treason against their country and their brother officers, who now have to try to live down the image they created. Do you want this to turn into Norte Mexico? That is why this is so serious and needs to be severely punished!:chris:


So the stupid cops in this case screwed up. Ever hear of 'friendly fire"? everyone on this site plays with guns.Some may have to use them against another one day. Hope the one(s) the F/U (and there will be) can stand and take their punishment and be as cocky as they are on this blog.

aileron
03-07-2009, 1:07 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, did I come across some sort of rule that Calguns is only for residents of California? I

Out of staters are more then welcome here. I find it objectionable that someone would say anything ill of another because they're an out of stater.

We get enough comments of the kind "Hope you fall into the ocean" from out of state boards that you would think we could do better.

Meplat
03-07-2009, 1:11 PM
BOO?, BOO?, Is that you BOO?:p

It seems she (the elder victim) was an unintended target since the cops had poor information and hit the wrong address; thats friendly fire. Just from reading comments on this fiasco, everyone commenting sounds smug. But I'll bet if they were to be involved in something gray they wouldn't be so hard on themselves. The cops went to prison for their corruption, as far as the shooting? Assuming they had no prior intention of murdering a 90 year old woman, it was friendly fire. Anyway comment forever, I'm moving on.

Meplat
03-07-2009, 1:39 PM
The term friendly fire predates Vietnam by a bunch. It goes back at least to WWII. It is associated with firing at ones allies, American artillery firing on American infantry, or Australian/American, American/ARVN, and on ad infinitum. If civilians are hit it was called collateral damage. I am sure the lady in question did not consider the thugs knocking down here door her allies, nor they her.:p

If we had professional juries the last remaining vestige of constitutional liberty would be gone from our "justice" system. Judges that issue warrants that a third grader could tell are bogus. Prosecutors who bully Plea bargains out of people they know are probably innocent for political and professional gain. Police who lie cheat and plant evidence because they can. And juries that will rubber stamp whatever a judge tells them. It's flawless, why didn't I think of that?


It's a term that was created during Vietnam. It just sounds friendly, it's not. If it was someone I loved it's still a term. I can see from the rest of your post that you give a good solid reason for professional juries.

Gray Peterson
03-08-2009, 1:03 AM
Long post lonnie. You want your civil rights intact across state lines just like you want the guilty Atlanta Cops executed. lonnie wilson; judge, jury executioner. Just make sure he has his civil rights but screw the rights of anyone else. think there's a article about the like of you somewhere in these forums, your labeled a reaction formist. Personally you sound like an angry creep.

Well, considering the whole concept of "felony murder", I'm not too far off. For example, if a person goes in rob a store. Said person has an accomplice, you point guns at the store owner, store owner gets the drop on your accomplice and shoots him dead. Said person is charged with Murder 1 because of the "felony murder" rule. How is situation any different than that when they lied to the judge to fabricate their phony evidence? The robbers went in with no intention to actually murder in their own mind, but the fact that they created the situation in the first place causing the accomplice's death by even robbing the store is what triggered the situation in the first place.

The cops lied to a judge to sign off on the warrant, and then planted evidence on her to make her look like a drug dealer after she did something that could happen to ANY OF US.

How is that any different? Oh yeah, that's right, they have police badges and the robber of the store does not. Robber gets many years in prison, life, or thrown into the gas chamber, but a criminal cop only gets a slap on the wrist with 10 years. How is that fair?

Btw, California may not have a "Felony Murder" rule, but Georgia certainly does.

Kestryll
03-08-2009, 1:55 AM
oscarred, knock off the personal shots now.

The next one will cost you your ability to post for a while,

Seesm
03-08-2009, 3:19 AM
Another reason to abolish no knock warrants! I know if plain clothes police officers entered my home and did not identify themselves as such (I do NOT know if that happened in this case) I would fire on them!

Why can't they just wait for the suspected person to leave the house to go somewhere and apprehend them at such a time? After they have the suspect in cuffs they can search the house for whatever it is they are looking to find.

Great post... I have to agree...i have 2 cousins that are cops and friends but if a bunch of guys came into my home un-invited and NOT saying who they are...Ugghhh bad idea as they are getting blasted... That sucks cuz I like all my LEO friends...

javalos
03-08-2009, 10:27 AM
Our Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves in regards to no-knocked warrants. Our current country's justification for no-knock circumvents the whole intent of the 4th Amendment... "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Those killer cops went through the door guns blazing yelling yeehawww and taking a innocent elderly woman's life who posed no threat was more than unreasonable, it is a travesty against our freedom as a whole and no-knock warrants, botched raids, and loss of liberty will continue to happen. I hope the ex-cops stay in the poky is a long one.

EOD3
03-08-2009, 1:22 PM
It's just my opinion but... I'm not convinced the "official" report is completely factual.

For the "crucify them" crowd, under normal circumstances when an officer is incarcerated, they spend their time in solitary confinement. Think you could do a nickel without social interaction?

Just my BAC