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View Full Version : Why would the military need RIOT EQUIPMENT


FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 9:33 AM
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=41c48b2062a9df4df4e303900bc5fdf0&tab=core&tabmode=list&cck=1&au=&ck=

Glock22Fan
02-25-2009, 9:36 AM
Well, I'm guessing that the marines (and other services) guarding our embassies and bases abroad probably appreciate it.

And this is Fort Leavenworth, I believe that they have some pretty hard core prisoners who could riot.

And, the military can't ignore the possibility that a civil protest could turn nasty.

All seem good reasons for riot gear to me.

MAILMAN187
02-25-2009, 9:39 AM
Because, if people get too "out of hand" for the police to deal with, they call in the army for riot control......
Well the National Guard anyways..

Ten Rounder
02-25-2009, 9:45 AM
I remember riot drill training in the Army at Fort Carson. IIRC our unit did a 6 weeks of on call rotation/readiness training. That was only once in the 2 years that I was there. I believe we were to support Mil installations and back up the National guard if called.

Davidoff
02-25-2009, 10:07 AM
Well, seeing as the quantities are fairly small, (enough to equip about 15-20 soldiers with a few spares) I'd say it's probably for the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth.

Glock22Fan
02-25-2009, 10:09 AM
Because, if people get too "out of hand" for the police to deal with, they call in the army for riot control......
Well the National Guard anyways..

Yes, posse commitatus (sp?) stops them using full-time military for riot control on the mainland, but they can use them for riot control if it's a byproduct of them guarding a military base.

I believe that it takes Congress to approve their use otherwise.

FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 10:23 AM
Well, seeing as the quantities are fairly small, (enough to equip about 15-20 soldiers with a few spares) I'd say it's probably for the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth.


$6 million to equip 15-20 soldiers

4literranger485
02-25-2009, 10:24 AM
Its mostly for training like everyone else stated. Just in case its needed off base, or even on base. Mob mentality is a dangerous thing! I got to help train a riot scenario with the Security Forces guys a few years ago. I volunteered to be a rioter :D it was a blast, they gave us eggs and all kinds of goodies to throw at them. Only down side was they could detain us if they were able to. Still good times though.

FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 10:27 AM
Because, if people get too "out of hand" for the police to deal with, they call in the army for riot control......
Well the National Guard anyways..

Why would American Citizens get out of hand, maybe the M word :eek:

Cypren
02-25-2009, 10:32 AM
In addition to all of these reasons, there's also the fact that we've been occupying two foreign nations for the last six years and military duties there have largely shifted to peacekeeping/policing activities. Without this kind of equipment and training, what are the soldiers' options for dealing with a civilian uprising? Just shoot them all?

I'm a lot more worried about police departments adopting military tactics and gear than vice versa, personally.

4literranger485
02-25-2009, 10:34 AM
well said Cypren....why are people afraid of the military training to be a military :D

FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 10:51 AM
In this case it's the US Army asking for $6 million of Riot Gear.

I did not know the US Army did riot control.

Cypren
02-25-2009, 10:57 AM
I did not know the US Army did riot control.

The National Guard is typically used to do riot control activity that exceeds the capacity of the police (at the direction of the state Governor) here in the US. My suspicion is that the Army riot control equipment is either for use at the USDB at Leavenworth (as Davidoff suggested) or for overseas policing activity in Iraq, where civilian riots are a more pressing concern.

I think you overestimate how far $6 million goes when spent by military procurement personnel. :D

DDT
02-25-2009, 11:24 AM
In this case it's the US Army asking for $6 million of Riot Gear.

I did not know the US Army did riot control.

Of course they do. Who do you think does riot control in UN actions? Who do you think does riot control when protesters set up a protest on Army property? Who do you think does riot control on PR soil if it gets beyond the control of local LE? Who do you think does Riot control in Baghdad?

You can put away the tin foil hat, plus $6M ain't buying a lot of gear if you thinking about posse comitatus.

rkt88edmo
02-25-2009, 11:25 AM
to put you in a FEMA camp :43:

Davidoff
02-25-2009, 11:36 AM
I think you overestimate how far $6 million goes when spent by military procurement personnel. :D

Soooo true. During my 4 years in the Air Force I was amazed at how much money our military wastes, and the AF is one of the worst IMHO. Two B-2 bombers are now costing the equivalent of an Aircraft Carrier (about $4B).

Went through it again and it looks like this is the shopping list:

100 Shin Guards (2 sizes)
100 Forearm Protectors (2 sizes)
100 Chest Protectors (3 sizes)

So pretty much, they are buying enough equipment for less than a company. I have no objection to the military buying riot gear besides the price tag. As mentioned above, there are plenty of uses for the gear that are within the boundaries set on the military.

Technical Ted
02-25-2009, 11:38 AM
Why does the US Army need FM 19-15: Civil Disturbances (Published 25 November 1985)?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/19-15/index.html

DDT
02-25-2009, 11:48 AM
Why does the US Army need FM 19-15: Civil Disturbances (Published 25 November 1985)?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/19-15/index.html

Because they are "coming to take you away. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZMZ-XvvzI&feature=related)"

FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 11:51 AM
You can put away the tin foil hat


Nobody in the thread is talking about aliens :confused:

FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 11:54 AM
Because they are "coming to take you away. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZMZ-XvvzI&feature=related)"



and they are training too....

http://www.carrollspaper.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=7451&TM=55111.9

Cypren
02-25-2009, 12:02 PM
Nobody in the thread is talking about aliens :confused:

Of course not, the aliens just dissect your brain to get at what's inside. It's the government who uses the mind-control rays from their black helicopters launched out of Area 51! :TFH:

Sheesh, everyone knows that. :D

nick
02-25-2009, 12:14 PM
Nobody in the thread is talking about aliens :confused:

Thinking they can riot? Do we even have enough of them to form a mob? :)

Fjold
02-25-2009, 12:19 PM
to put you in a FEMA camp :43:


Thank you, I was reading through this to make sure someone got this. :TFH:

SgtDinosaur
02-25-2009, 1:06 PM
I remember seeing riot training conducted on Sheppard AFB in 1973. There were a lot of demonstrations outside base gates during the Vietnam era, and I guess some of them could have gotten pretty hairy.

Springfield45
02-25-2009, 1:39 PM
For RIOTS!

FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 1:43 PM
For RIOTS!



Food RIOTS :eek:

Harrison_Bergeron
02-25-2009, 1:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act

SDJim
02-25-2009, 1:54 PM
Why does the US Army need FM 19-15: Civil Disturbances (Published 25 November 1985)?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/19-15/index.html
For the same reason they have AR 190-55 U.S. Army Corrections System:
Procedures for Military Executions (Updated 17 January 2006) http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/r190_55.pdf . . . Because if they need to do it, it has to be done according to the "Book"

DDT
02-25-2009, 1:58 PM
to put you in a FEMA camp :43:

I was accosted at the last gun show I attended so that I could be educated all about the 600 FEMA camps WITH GAS CHAMBERS.

FrankoUSA
02-25-2009, 2:31 PM
http://www.infowars.com/

ZRX61
02-25-2009, 5:07 PM
Two B-2 bombers are now costing the equivalent of an Aircraft Carrier (about $4B).
B2's don't cost anything to produce these days, production stopped years ago..

Meplat
02-25-2009, 5:56 PM
The only riot gear needed at Kent State were M-1 Garands.:thumbsup:

Well, I'm guessing that the marines (and other services) guarding our embassies and bases abroad probably appreciate it.

And this is Fort Leavenworth, I believe that they have some pretty hard core prisoners who could riot.

And, the military can't ignore the possibility that a civil protest could turn nasty.

All seem good reasons for riot gear to me.

DDT
02-25-2009, 5:57 PM
The only riot gear needed at Kent State were M-1 Garands.:thumbsup:

Probably not the model the Army is trying to emulate....

Meplat
02-25-2009, 6:16 PM
It might be a mistake to totally discount ALL this as FUD, but I have personally checked out one of the supposed camps these folks are talking about and there was nothing to it. :TFH::confused:

I was accosted at the last gun show I attended so that I could be educated all about the 600 FEMA camps WITH GAS CHAMBERS.

Meplat
02-25-2009, 6:20 PM
True. But, I never could see the logic in throwing rocks and botels at a man with a rifle. Maybe it's just me?


Probably not the model the Army is trying to emulate....

dustoff31
02-25-2009, 8:06 PM
In addition to all of these reasons, there's also the fact that we've been occupying two foreign nations for the last six years and military duties there have largely shifted to peacekeeping/policing activities. Without this kind of equipment and training, what are the soldiers' options for dealing with a civilian uprising?


Yes. And I'm sure a very large portion of existing stocks of equipment was loaned, sold, or otherwise transferred to the Iraqi and Afghan police/military.

Now our military has to replace it.

NIB
02-25-2009, 9:17 PM
People need to drop the kool aid and quit listening to Alex Jones.

We had riot control equipment in the army back in 1991 when I joined. Matter of fact they have had riot control equipment probably all the way back into the 50's.

I know in one of my old units we were clearing out old bunkers that were being used for long term storage. In one of them they had stacks of riot batons. When we pulled out one of the hand receipts that was falling apart it was dated 1967.

Looks like the illuminati has been stocking up on riot equipment for a while.

:sarcasm:

5968
02-25-2009, 9:44 PM
Well, seeing as the quantities are fairly small, (enough to equip about 15-20 soldiers with a few spares) I'd say it's probably for the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth.

My thoughts exactly. Fort Leavenworth is home to the U.S. Disciplinary Baracks which is a maximum security prison. The soldiers there do regularly train for riots that do occur from time to time in the prison. :thumbsup:

dwa
02-25-2009, 9:50 PM
The only riot gear needed at Kent State were M-1 Garands.:thumbsup:

think about what you just said. soldiers shooting citizens on us soil. yes they were dirty hippies but they were still citizens and that was a dark time.

LeftyShooter
02-25-2009, 10:00 PM
Why would military need riot equipment?

To handle rioters with something other then "grazing fire".

Some scenarios that may require less then lethal force:

Protesters at military installations that try to storm the gate CONUS or OCONUS.

Military prisoners being held aboard base get out of control.

While protecting an Embassy or Consulate protesters try to storm the compound.

While providing humanitarian aid people get out of control.

While occupying a foreign country we are responsible for security and must be prepared for protestors, rioters, etc.

While conducting NEO (Noncombatant Evacuation Operations) in a foreign country crowds try to storm the evacuation site.

To control an out of control crowd of rowdy drunk military personnel that have gathered at the club aboard base, at a concert aboard base, or some other event.

In case they are called out to protect gov't installations with less then lethal force in the event of a national, state, or local emergency. (i.e. L.A. riots Marines were used to protect fire stations, police stations, and national guard armories freeing up police to police. Again they need to be able to respond with less then lethal force if necessary before mowing people down with small arms fire)

Enemy prisoners being held get out of control.

Refugees in a camp protected by our military get out of control. (this happened in Guantanomo Bay in the early 90's. Cuban refugees living in tent camps went berzerk aboard the base. A Marine Infantry battalion had to duct tape billy clubs in one hand and large cans of OC spray in the other and go in and restore order. Doesn't look to good if we just mow down refugees with automatic and semi automatic fire.)

etc. etc. etc.

Field Manual (FM) 3-19.15 addresses continental United States (CONUS) and outside continental United States (OCONUS) civil disturbance operations.

Today, United States (US) forces are deployed on peacekeeping, peace enforcement, and humanitarian assistance operations worldwide. During these operations, US forces are often faced with unruly and violent crowds intent on disrupting peace and the ability of US forces to maintain peace. Worldwide instability coupled with increasing US military participation in peacekeeping and related operations requires that US forces have access to the most current doctrine and tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTP) necessary to quell riots and restore public order.

In addition to covering civil unrest doctrine for OCONUS operations, FM 3-19.15 addresses domestic unrest and the military role in providing assistance to civil authorities requesting it for civil disturbance operations. It provides the commander and his staff guidance for preparing and planning for such operations. The principles of civil disturbance operations, planning and training for such operations, and the TTP employed to control civil disturbances and neutralize special
threats are discussed in this manual. It also addresses special planning and preparation that are needed to quell riots in confinement facilities are also discussed.

In the past, commanders were limited to the type of force they could apply to quell a riot. Riot batons, riot control agents, or lethal force were often used. Today, there is a wide array of nonlethal weapons (NLW) available to the commander that extends his use of force along the force continuum. This manual addresses the use of nonlethal (NL) and lethal forces when quelling a riot.

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf

DDT
02-26-2009, 1:03 AM
think about what you just said. soldiers shooting citizens on us soil. yes they were dirty hippies but they were still citizens and that was a dark time.

That was exactly his point. No riot gear needed to use the army on US soil. Think about what he REALLY said.

FrankoUSA
02-26-2009, 8:06 AM
People might have forgoten http://www.carrollspaper.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=7451&TM=55111.9

maybe this is why they need riot gear you think everybody is going to go along when they do this for real


why pick on alex jones he was the one who sneaked in Bohemian Grove and video taped the whole ceremony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFoUZEjuNM

ChuckBooty
02-26-2009, 8:16 AM
back in 1999 I was deployed to Kosovo and was called into a pretty big riot in a place called Strpce(sp). I'm REALLY glad we had riot gear.

hawk1
02-26-2009, 8:18 AM
http://www.infowars.com/

:owned:

Alex Jones is an asshat plain and simple. He takes a little bit of truth and blows it up into what fits his agenda. Keep listening to that nutjob, that way you could be as wacky as him someday... :smilielol5:

FrankoUSA
02-26-2009, 8:38 AM
:owned:

Alex Jones is an asshat plain and simple. He takes a little bit of truth and blows it up into what fits his agenda. Keep listening to that nutjob, that way you could be as wacky as him someday... :smilielol5:





:nopity:

ilbob
02-26-2009, 8:39 AM
Q: Why would the military need RIOT EQUIPMENT?
A: To deal with a riot.

hawk1
02-26-2009, 8:45 AM
:nopity:

If thats the best way to shrug off what people think of you then go for it. :thumbsup:

After all, if you mingle with pigs, you will start to smell like them...;)

FrankoUSA
02-26-2009, 8:48 AM
so it's just a coincidence that:

The dollar is falling
The collapse of the narco country of Mexico
The assault on our 2nd Amendment
The assault on anyyhing with the word GOD
The banks are failing
poeple are getting laid off
poeple are losing their homes
and other stuff......

That they want RIOT GEAR :confused:

FrankoUSA
02-26-2009, 8:50 AM
If thats the best way to shrug off what people think of you then go for it. :thumbsup:

After all, if you mingle with pigs, you will start to smell like them...;)

Why would i get childish and start calling each other names, can't we have a adult conversation :euro:

Meplat
02-26-2009, 9:14 AM
You have to go back a lot farther than that. Google 'bonus riots' and learn how Eisenhower and MacArthur got their start. If you want to go back farther google 'whisky rebellion' and learn how even a militia could be misused.





People need to drop the kool aid and quit listening to Alex Jones.

We had riot control equipment in the army back in 1991 when I joined. Matter of fact they have had riot control equipment probably all the way back into the 50's.

I know in one of my old units we were clearing out old bunkers that were being used for long term storage. In one of them they had stacks of riot batons. When we pulled out one of the hand receipts that was falling apart it was dated 1967.

Looks like the illuminati has been stocking up on riot equipment for a while.

:sarcasm:

hawk1
02-26-2009, 9:17 AM
Why would i get childish and start calling each other names, can't we have a adult conversation :euro:

First, I didn't call you any names.
Second, you and your buddy Alex are trying to tie an Army cost to some nefarious population control that is upcoming.
Stop and think for a minute on your own without Alex Jones and his other sheeples. Six million dollars in riot gear is not enough money to control the amount of people they would be likely to face based on that whackjobs own predictions...

nuff said. Your a big boy, you have it all figured out anyways.:thumbsup:

FrankoUSA
02-26-2009, 9:27 AM
First, I didn't call you any names.
Second, you and your buddy Alex are trying to tie an Army cost to some nefarious population control that is upcoming.
Stop and think for a minute on your own without Alex Jones and his other sheeples. Six million dollars in riot gear is not enough money to control the amount of people they would be likely to face based on that whackjobs own predictions...

nuff said. Your a big boy, you have it all figured out anyways.:thumbsup:

I'm listening right now :D

:cheers2: I invite you to join me


http://www.infowars.com/audiobox.html

Meplat
02-26-2009, 9:39 AM
Not as dark as Waco. My point is that the military is not a police agency. Pretending it is will just desensitize the public to seeing soldiers patrolling their streets.


I personally think that at this point in history, a citizen endangering mistake is more likely to be made by police than by military personnel. The most important tool for either is between their ears. To our military job one is protecting their country. To our police job one is protecting themselves.


think about what you just said. soldiers shooting citizens on us soil. yes they were dirty hippies but they were still citizens and that was a dark time.

6172crew
02-26-2009, 9:50 AM
When I was in Somalia there were a few LAPD/Marine reservist who were deployed with us to show the grunts how to use less than lethal equipment. The Marine have been training with riot type gear for a long time, and its mainly used for our embassies and other scenarios that you dont want to kill people but want to take care of a crowd that is in your way.

Every MEU does this training for SOC, so the MEU can be MEUSOC or Marine Expeditionary Unit Special Operations Capable. The thought is that a few small ships with 4000 service members can take care of just about anything the POTUS thanks needs to be handled.

Now if the thought about troops on US soil bugs you then you need to look into TRUE training, that was fun!:thumbsup: I flew with the LAPD, dropped off specops guys in high school football fields, and everyone is armed. The guys we dropped off were dressed in hippy clothes but the back packs had MP5s in them.:D High Speed, Low Drag!

dwa
02-26-2009, 10:27 AM
That was exactly his point. No riot gear needed to use the army on US soil. Think about what he REALLY said.

think about what you REALLY said.

dwa
02-26-2009, 10:32 AM
Not as dark as Waco. My point is that the military is not a police agency. Pretending it is will just desensitize the public to seeing soldiers patrolling their streets.


I personally think that at this point in history, a citizen endangering mistake is more likely to be made by police than by military personnel. The most important tool for either is between their ears. To our military job one is protecting their country. To our police job one is protecting themselves.

i agree with your first point but i don't think that equipment for 100 soldiers is the beginning of a police state.

FrankoUSA
02-26-2009, 10:37 AM
i agree with your first point but i don't think that equipment for 100 soldiers is the beginning of a police state.

maybe some sort of "SPECIAL" Unit :eek:

Cypren
02-26-2009, 10:59 AM
maybe some sort of "SPECIAL" Unit :eek:

Maybe Franko is some sort of "SPECIAL" poster here to evaluate our potential gullibility and/or resistance to authority in preparation for taking us all to the gas camps where they'll carve out our brains and replace them with spam! :TFH:

Making unfounded paranoid allegations of ulterior motives is fun! Join us next time when we reveal that hoffmang is really a sock puppet for Sarah Brady! :rolleyes:

FrankoUSA
02-26-2009, 11:04 AM
Maybe Franko is some sort of "SPECIAL" poster here to evaluate our potential gullibility and/or resistance to authority in preparation for taking us all to the gas camps where they'll carve out our brains and replace them with spam! :TFH:

Making unfounded paranoid allegations of ulterior motives is fun! Join us next time when we reveal that hoffmang is really a sock puppet for Sarah Brady! :rolleyes:


ok. I would love to join you. thank you just pm'me with the time :thumbsup:

cmaynes
02-26-2009, 11:39 AM
Yes, posse commitatus (sp?) stops them using full-time military for riot control on the mainland, but they can use them for riot control if it's a byproduct of them guarding a military base.

I believe that it takes Congress to approve their use otherwise.

I do believe Posse Commitatus was rendered null by the Warner act of 2007... Thank Duncan Hunter (who I otherwise admire) for this great expansion of federal power.....

SEC. 1076. USE OF THE ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMERGENCIES.
(a) Use of the Armed Forces Authorized-
(1) IN GENERAL- Section 333 of title 10, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 333. Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law
(a) Use of Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies- (1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
(3) In any situation covered by paragraph (1)(B), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.
(b) Notice to Congress- The President shall notify Congress of the determination to exercise the authority in subsection (a)(1)(A) as soon as practicable after the determination and every 14 days thereafter during the duration of the exercise of that authority.'.
(2) PROCLAMATION TO DISPERSE- Section 334 of such title is amended by inserting `or those obstructing the enforcement of the laws' after `insurgents'.
(3) HEADING AMENDMENT- The heading of chapter 15 of such title is amended to read as follows:

Cypren
02-26-2009, 11:44 AM
I do believe Posse Commitatus was rendered null by the Warner act of 2007... Thank Duncan Hunter (who I otherwise admire) for this great expansion of federal power.....

Those segments (which were alterations to the Insurrection Act, not the Posse Comitatus) were repealed by HR 4986 (which became Public Law 110-181 last year).

Meplat
02-26-2009, 12:07 PM
Nor do I.:43:

i agree with your first point but i don't think that equipment for 100 soldiers is the beginning of a police state.

Meplat
02-26-2009, 12:31 PM
It is a truly amazing thing, what principled tradition can bring forth! If you had told me forty years ago what the results of forty years of an "all volunteer" (read mercenary) army would be, I would have told you; tyranny! But, the traditions of our military culture, our officer corps and our military academies have thus far prevented this. I weep in gratitude as I type.

I will never forget the statement of a twenty year old medical student from Grenada. After exiting a C-130 and kissing the ground she told a reporter that the most beautiful words she had ever heard in her twenty years were: "United States Marines, everybody down!!":thumbsup:

To those who are now keeping us safe: Thank You.

ilbob
02-26-2009, 12:43 PM
You have to go back a lot farther than that. Google 'bonus riots' and learn how Eisenhower and MacArthur got their start. If you want to go back farther google 'whisky rebellion' and learn how even a militia could be misused.

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

The Whiskey Rebellion was not an invasion, but it certainly was a violation of federal law and had many elements of an insurrection.

Granted, the Whiskey tax as applied was poorly thought out, and did not fit the economy of the area very well, as it required paying taxes in specie and most trade was barter based, and specie was not all that easy to come by. But it was the law of the land.