PDA

View Full Version : Gun STORE free school zones


Librarian
02-24-2009, 10:05 PM
Since the data became available to locate over 11,000 public schools, I was reminded of this bit of news from the Presidential campaign of 2008:
Obama and Gun Control:

His record isn't likely to win back the rural "pro-gun" voters who've fled to the Republicans in recent years, likely costing Gore the election in 2000. From the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999:
...
He's proposing that all federally licensed gun dealers sell firearms in a storefront and not from their homes while banning their business from being within five miles of a school or a park. He's also banning the sale of 'junk" handguns like the popular Saturday Night Specials.

This is just what the President thought in 1999; no such proposal is active today.

So, just for entertainment (again), here's the same set of 11K public schools used in the Gun Free School Zones thread, but expanded to 5-mile radius "dots". Private schools and parks really need not be included to see the effect...

All the light green is where gun sales businesses would be forbidden in California.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/Librarian_bucket/CAschools5mile.jpg

ETD1010
02-24-2009, 10:06 PM
wow... they've really figured out where to hit us where it counts. . .

NiteQwill
02-24-2009, 10:27 PM
I see that there is a few spots where placing a store in Mexico wouldn't work either ;)

Dr Rockso
02-24-2009, 10:48 PM
Really 5 miles?! That's just absurd, any sized town couldn't have a shop. What is the supposed 'problem' that this is going to solve anyway? Are schoolkids buying guns from FFLs now?

hoffmang
02-24-2009, 10:54 PM
What is the supposed 'problem' that this is going to solve anyway? Are schoolkids buying guns from FFLs now?

It's simply the democrat's way of keeping credit card debt low. Could you imagine how much debt kids would get into if they hung out at PRKArms after school? :43:

-Gene

pir-tac
02-24-2009, 10:56 PM
.......So, just for entertainment (again), here's the same set of 11K public schools used in the Gun Free School Zones thread, but expanded to 5-mile radius "dots". Private schools and parks really need not be included to see the effect...

Looks like you are using Google Earth - how did you adjust the size of the dots?

MindBuilder
02-25-2009, 3:26 AM
This map makes it look like there are a few places left you could put a shop. But one of the problems with the school zones is that children schooled by their parents have an official private school formed by their parents. Since parents far away from town sometimes home school their kids to save commuting, even the very remote areas will often have schools.

This may also be a problem with the 1000ft school zones. Even if you think you know there are no schools in town within 1000ft of where you are, there could be a private school nearby that is indistinguishable from any other private residence. And even if you have a map, it can change at any time.

Librarian
02-25-2009, 8:52 AM
Looks like you are using Google Earth - how did you adjust the size of the dots?

There's a nice tool at
http://www.zonums.com/gmaps/kml_circles.html

11,000 lat/long pairs looks like a pretty serious strain on their server in one bite, but a hundred or so comes right back. The .kml file for this one is 9.8 meg.

Settings this time were 'polygons' and '50% opacity' and '20 vertices'. The tool forgets the opacity setting, and any custom color, between file generation runs.

Librarian
02-25-2009, 8:55 AM
This map makes it look like there are a few places left you could put a shop. But one of the problems with the school zones is that children schooled by their parents have an official private school formed by their parents. Since parents far away from town sometimes home school their kids to save commuting, even the very remote areas will often have schools.

This may also be a problem with the 1000ft school zones. Even if you think you know there are no schools in town within 1000ft of where you are, there could be a private school nearby that is indistinguishable from any other private residence. And even if you have a map, it can change at any time.

Correct; that's where one has to rely on the 'or has reasonable cause to believe' (Fed)/ 'or reasonably should know' (CA) language.

Better, of course, to get rid of the things.

DDT
02-25-2009, 9:01 AM
I think that with a fixed site such as a business you will not see "reasonable cause to believe" language. If it were to happen it would be a hard limit.

This graphic would make an excellent "visual aid" for fence-sitters should this ever actually come up to a vote.

Flyliner
02-25-2009, 9:42 AM
Where did you get the data for the school locations?


Since the data became available to locate over 11,000 public schools, I was reminded of this bit of news from the Presidential campaign of 2008:


This is just what the President thought in 1999; no such proposal is active today.

So, just for entertainment (again), here's the same set of 11K public schools used in the Gun Free School Zones thread, but expanded to 5-mile radius "dots". Private schools and parks really need not be included to see the effect...

All the light green is where gun sales businesses would be forbidden in California.

Librarian
02-25-2009, 9:59 AM
Where did you get the data for the school locations?

Aemergin posted the link Hi, this is my first post here but thought I could share some data for the map (great idea btw!) ..

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/si/ds/pubschls.asp
in the Gun Free School Zone (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=156779) thread.

I downloaded the Excel file, threw away all the columns except for the lat/long, converted the strings to numbers, sorted the data to find the empties and deleted those rows, and saved the result as a .csv.

Crude and incomplete, but that gave me a map with 11K points in about an hour. It was taking me about a minute a point collecting lat/long manually through Google Earth. (Right click a point on the list to get properties, copy/paste lat, enter comma, copy/paste long, get rid of spaces and degree character if accidentally included in copy, enter <cr>, repeat. There's probably a better way, but stealing someone else's data is much more efficient.)

Librarian
02-25-2009, 7:57 PM
I think that with a fixed site such as a business you will not see "reasonable cause to believe" language. If it were to happen it would be a hard limit.

This graphic would make an excellent "visual aid" for fence-sitters should this ever actually come up to a vote.

Sorry; my response was ambiguous. The 'reasonable' etc referred to the existing 1000' rule MindBuilder referenced in his second part.

OTOH, maybe we could get a reciprocal rule: There's a gun store here, you're not allowed to build a school within 5 miles; gun store was here first - close the school.

Vaguely similar argument used a while ago in Sacramento. Silly local residents complained about the jet noise from (now closed) Mather AFB. Air Force attorneys showed aerial photos of the base from the 40's on; "you moved in on us, and we were certainly not hiding". Noise suits thrown out.

Again, better that this proposal never sees the light of day.