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View Full Version : offer from city for gun destroyed by PD?


geeknow
02-24-2009, 5:12 PM
...if you remember round 1

the offer is that they will write me a check for the value of the gun (off the original receipt) + DROS + appreciation/hassle factor.

the contingency is that I release all liability and go away.

the price of the appreciation/hassle factor portion of the equation is $1507.57

or press on?

sorensen440
02-24-2009, 5:12 PM
What do you hope to get out of them by pressing on ?

DDT
02-24-2009, 5:16 PM
Wasn't your weapon off-roster?

Maybe you should push for a CCW too, or an NFA permit signature. CoP might be more than willing.

geeknow
02-24-2009, 5:17 PM
a bad policy made better for the guy in line behind me.

geeknow
02-24-2009, 5:18 PM
Wasn't your weapon off-roster?

Maybe you should push for a CCW too, or an NFA permit signature. CoP might be more than willing.

Yes, it is no longer on the roster. As for the other stuff, doubtful. I live in a different city and county.

DDT
02-24-2009, 5:22 PM
As for the other stuff, doubtful. I live in a different city and county.

Too bad. Find out what your gun is really selling for in California. If the deal makes sense I'd take it. I suspect the police will not play this game again, they are paying you off and that's about as good as it is going to get. I'm sure they don't want to be in this situation again. The city Attorney and council are surely aware of their CoP's screwup by now.

thedrickel
02-24-2009, 5:24 PM
Try to get market value . . .

geeknow
02-24-2009, 5:28 PM
Too bad. Find out what your gun is really selling for in California. If the deal makes sense I'd take it. I suspect the police will not play this game again, they are paying you off and that's about as good as it is going to get. I'm sure they don't want to be in this situation again. The city Attorney and council are surely aware of their CoP's screwup by now.

It's a good deal, money-wise. The gun is no longer made, though. Obviously, I could console myself with another.

CSACANNONEER
02-24-2009, 5:28 PM
If you really want the same gun. Tell them that since you can not order one, you want someone at the department to bring one into the state and PPT it to you. Of course, they will be expected to pay all the fees. But, you also have to ask yourself, "How much is my time worth?" Also, remember that if you push them, they can take their offer back and you will be back at square one.

geeknow
02-24-2009, 5:32 PM
If you really want the same gun. Tell them that since you can not order one, you want someone at the department to bring one into the state and PPT it to you. Of course, they will be expected to pay all the fees. But, you also have to ask yourself, "How much is my time worth?" Also, remember that if you push them, they can take their offer back and you will be back at square one.

Valid points, all.

My time is precious to me, no doubt. Justice is too. And finally, you are right. They could decide to shine me. However, I have gotten this far...

Who knows. Hence the poll.:D

aileron
02-24-2009, 5:34 PM
If you got money and feel like being a crusader, talk to a good lawyer and/or the right people, and see if its worthy.

grumpy562
02-24-2009, 5:39 PM
After all the BS they put you through. They need to add more $$$ to the hassle factor.

RP1911
02-24-2009, 5:46 PM
How much time did you spend getting to this point? What is your hourly wage? Multiply both and see what you come up with. Add that to the value of the gun. If reasonably more, ask for that amount.

I suspect this is their 1st offer. I say they have room to up it.

cxr
02-24-2009, 5:54 PM
If you really want the same gun. Tell them that since you can not order one, you want someone at the department to bring one into the state and PPT it to you. Of course, they will be expected to pay all the fees. But, you also have to ask yourself, "How much is my time worth?" Also, remember that if you push them, they can take their offer back and you will be back at square one.


i agree with this statement... i want equal value firearm for my destroyed firearm. especially if its on a list and you may not be able to get yourself

WokMaster1
02-24-2009, 6:11 PM
have them bring in the replacement with a letter of apology from the Police chief plus have your picture taken with the cop who took your handgun & the officer who authorized its destruction. Make sure both wear Calguns T-shirts.

PolishMike
02-24-2009, 6:28 PM
take the check, be done with it

AlexBreya
02-24-2009, 6:38 PM
I would try to negotiate this: a CCW permit, and 3 legal hicap mags, and that your next build is a registered assault rifle (no mag lock). ultimately, they'd only have to repay you with about $80. they might go for it... then again, they probably wont...

workinwifdakids
02-24-2009, 6:43 PM
I'm thinking your counter-offer should be they actually put the same make and model of gun, in the same condition, in your hand. Whatever that costs them is not your problem. In addition, you want your hourly wage x the number of hours you spent on this, plus a quad-mounted ma deuce and 2mil rounds of APIT.

PolishMike
02-24-2009, 6:46 PM
I would try to negotiate this: a CCW permit, and 3 legal hicap mags, and that your next build is a registered assault rifle (no mag lock). ultimately, they'd only have to repay you with about $80. they might go for it... then again, they probably wont...

Guys, be realistic. I HIGHLY doubt a PD has any weight with the DOJ. They are not able to register things for you and will not break the law to make you happy.

KCM222
02-24-2009, 6:49 PM
I would want a LEO to PPT one of the same quality/condition to me if it's off the roster now.

hoffmang
02-24-2009, 6:53 PM
Take the check and add a request for an apology letter.

-Gene

1911su16b870
02-24-2009, 6:53 PM
IMO take the money and buy another firearm you want!

USN CHIEF
02-24-2009, 6:55 PM
Take the check.

bohoki
02-24-2009, 6:57 PM
settle they are offering all you could get anyway

it woudl be nice to slap them with punitive damages and civil rights violations

check yo see if any of the gun lawyers want a piece i'm sure they would tell you to settle cause its too hard to proove personal malace

Rukus
02-24-2009, 7:04 PM
Take the check and add a request for an apology letter.

-Gene
I think this would be your most realistic bet.

foxtrotuniformlima
02-24-2009, 7:15 PM
;) Oh, I remember alright :)

Take the money and run.

Shotgun Man
02-24-2009, 7:39 PM
Here's the link for round one for those of us who had forgotten or missed it:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=139395

I just re-read it. It does seem like you went through a lot of aggravation. I think the answer is dependent on how much $1,500 means to you and your availability to pursue it further.

I voted they should have to pay a higher price.

If they broke the gun after they had knowledge that you were seeking its return, their conduct is more egregious.

If chipping out part of the chamber is merely something they always do to every gun, then their conduct is less malicious.

It does seem to be a curious practice-- rendering the firearm to be absolutely unsafe. I've heard of reaming out the chambers on old milsurp rifles that were being turned over to veterans groups for ceremonies. There's gotta be a better way.

DDT
02-24-2009, 7:41 PM
There is one option that isn't too unrealistic. Ask for an apology letter plus a statement of policy that in the future they will not destroy guns that are in the process of being claimed and that their policy has changed wrt: needing the investigating detective to release the gun. (I think that was the issue originally.) Or some other statement of a policy that would help the next guy in your situation.

kperry
02-24-2009, 7:44 PM
Take the check and add a request for an apology letter.

-Gene

I think Gene's suggestion is the most reasonable one I've heard here... I think a request for an apology is completely reasonable in this situation, from what I remember (and I really hope you get it).

jazman
02-24-2009, 7:53 PM
I would take the money. They screwed you around for sure, but it seems like you have returned the favor, hence the settlement offer which I'm sure didn't just come out of the blue. It sounds from the original post the original gun wasn't near $1500 value; if you take the money you will be able to buy a very nice gun. Have it engraved as a gift from the PD to you and enjoy shooting it. ;):D

lowracer
02-24-2009, 8:03 PM
Take the check, then sue them anyway.

fairfaxjim
02-24-2009, 8:08 PM
Just my 2 cents, but Gene's suggestion is probably the most realistic in terms of more wasted time, money, and agrevation. I mean how much more of these incompetent bozos do you wish to endure? I would possibly add that the apology, from the COP, should include at least an assurance that the dept. policy will be modified to prevent other taxpaying citizens from being subjected to this sort of keystone cops behavior in the future. I would have to tell myself that somebody at least got his butt chewed for costing them money, although the truth is he probably got an attaboy for being such a good policy following grunt.

Holocanthus
02-24-2009, 11:50 PM
If you're getting a check for the value of the gun + hassle, that should be about $2000? I don't remember what the gun was, but that's a nice nighthawk or 2 Dan Wessons. That's something to consider. Would you do a straight trade of your old gun for one of those options? If not, then press on.

MP301
02-25-2009, 12:47 AM
Gene is right. Obviously you made an impact because the city doesnt just hand out $1500 unless they feel your going to push it if they dont....and that they know they are wrong. Ask yourself what a judge would give you and what chances that the judge will make the agency promise a policy change...especially when this is probably an un-written policy because its illegal. They will just say that it was an error, etc.

TheDM
02-25-2009, 3:12 AM
Gene is right. Obviously you made an impact because the city doesnt just hand out $1500 unless they feel your going to push it if they dont....and that they know they are wrong. Ask yourself what a judge would give you and what chances that the judge will make the agency promise a policy change...especially when this is probably an un-written policy because its illegal. They will just say that it was an error, etc.

Better yet, ask an attorney.

If it were me, I'd ask to see the agreement they are going to make you sign for the check. There will be one, no doubt removing them of all liability.

At a minimum, an apology is a nice gesture, but more importantly, your check is good, if it will cash right now:) , an apology, and a statement that they will instate a training program so this does not happen again.

My spidey senses tell me they are worried about, to use a cliche, "you making a federal case about it", an attorney can tell you what they are afraid of, and what is possible.

Me, I'm a stubborn mule, I'd probably take the check and go after them constitutionally as they have deprived you of your 2nd amendment rights for the time period between when you lost your weapon and they offered you payment. To my knowledge, you can not sign away a constitutional right, even if you wanted to. There is a lot of precedent for this.

I'm not an attorney, but I am a thinking man, and I'm related to an attorney:)

TheDM
02-25-2009, 3:13 AM
Or, tell them if they double it, you will go away.

Paratus et Vigilans
02-25-2009, 5:48 AM
I'm with Gene and the others who say take the check and ask for a written apology for the conduct, and I would probably go just a little farther and ask for them also to agree in writing to educate their officers so that this does not happen to someone else in the future. Those are reasonable requests. Don't be greedy about the money. It's not about the money. (And I'm the lawyer to whom The DM is related, so you have at least one lawyer saying "It's not about the money." That alone ought to set some kind of precedent. :))

lowracer
02-25-2009, 6:30 AM
On second thought, have them keep the check. Ask to choose three weapons from their latest gun buy-back program. Win-win situation there.

geeknow
02-25-2009, 7:27 AM
Take the check and add a request for an apology letter.

-Gene

Unfortunately, my choices didnt include this option. While I havent seen the boilerplate yet, it was made fairly clear that their check releases all past/present/future liability. I think that an apology letter would have made me pretty happy as that would have provided a vehicle for "the guy in line behind me" to use, but that doesnt seem the case.

My question to you specifically would be this;

Absent a letter of apology, could the documented steps that I had to take, along with the documented steps that were taken by the agencies involved still be useful for another should the same occur again?

thanks

DDT
02-25-2009, 7:58 AM
Unfortunately, my choices didnt include this option. While I havent seen the boilerplate yet, it was made fairly clear that their check releases all past/present/future liability. I think that an apology letter would have made me pretty happy as that would have provided a vehicle for "the guy in line behind me" to use, but that doesnt seem the case.

Don't be so quick to assume that an apology letter is off the table. If this is their first offer there is room to negotiate. Are the police aware that your primary "take away" from this is that you want to ensure it doesn't happen again?

At the very least ask for a copy of the release they want and tell them you want your attorney to review it.

If they really are dead set against a letter or apology or a letter stating their policy in the future will be to cooperate with law abiding citizens to get their guns back to them in the same condition it was found then I'd probably refuse the check. If you refuse the check and keep up the noise about changing their policy, in writing, eventually they will yield to the Sword of Damocles that is a law suit.

hoffmang
02-25-2009, 12:06 PM
My question to you specifically would be this;

Absent a letter of apology, could the documented steps that I had to take, along with the documented steps that were taken by the agencies involved still be useful for another should the same occur again?


If you have in black and white a basic summary of what happened include a release where you release them, then yes. Such a document trail would allow the next guy to show a pattern or practice and would get them in a whole lot more hot water than they are in now.

Get the docs and then post 'em or send 'em to me and I'll post them. Take your check to the bank and go gun shopping.

-Gene

CA_Libertarian
02-25-2009, 12:21 PM
I say press on if you think more good will come of it. It's admirable that you're more concerned with the 'gun in line behind you' than with making money. Get with an attorney, and decide if it's worth pursuing. Even if the attorney says "no," consider suing in small claims court.

Sue for the maximum amount allowed in small claims. If they fail to appear, it is my understanding that you win by default. If they show up, hope to get at least the amount they would have settled for. The point is you're making them jump through extra legal hoops. Make the experience as distasteful for them as possible, and as expensive as possible, and maybe they won't do it anymore.

scotthmt
02-25-2009, 9:44 PM
I think they should pay you market value of what they destroyed. What cost 1500 when you bought it a few months or more ago might be 2k or more now.

GuyW
02-25-2009, 11:38 PM
If you take the check (not a bad option), keep a good photocopy.

Send a copy to the newspaper, TV station, talk radio, and City Council with your own letter explaining why the City paid you. Maybe the one of them will start an investigation about police practices. Also, make a complaint and demand that your letter be placed in the officer's file. These can each help create a public record of their actions.

ke6guj
02-25-2009, 11:47 PM
I think they should pay you market value of what they destroyed. What cost 1500 when you bought it a few months or more ago might be 2k or more now.the handgun in question was stolen from the OP 12 years ago, and recovered by the police. Between the trial, and when it was returned to the OP, it was disassembled and damaged. They are offering him the original purchase price from 12 years ago plus $1500.

Mulay El Raisuli
02-26-2009, 5:55 AM
If you take the check (not a bad option), keep a good photocopy.

Send a copy to the newspaper, TV station, talk radio, and City Council with your own letter explaining why the City paid you. Maybe the one of them will start an investigation about police practices. Also, make a complaint and demand that your letter be placed in the officer's file. These can each help create a public record of their actions.


This ain't a bad way to go. It reimburses you AND gives protection to the guy in line behind you. We all know that the govt NEVER gives money away unless they have to. Unless they've screwed up in some major way that can't be hidden or explained away. While that means you could make a real fight of this, taking the check gives you (most of) what you're due, while leaving the next fight for someone else. And that "someone" will be better equipped for that fight thanks to what you've done here.

The Raisuli

bruss01
02-26-2009, 7:58 AM
Go on, take the money and run... doot doot doo...

It's likely the best offer you're going to get. Sad about your gun, but into each life some rain must fall. My grandfather had a saying - "the more you stir ****, the worse it stinks". I think this one has been stirred enough and at this point you risk getting it on you if you stir further. Cash the check, buy a new toy, and chalk this up to life in the big city.

Dirtbiker
02-26-2009, 10:13 AM
I read both threads and can only say this...

This is sooo typical of HBPD. they are hard core old school "US VS THEM" mentality.

BUT, I live in this city (in my experience) the PD responds fast and will kick a** on your behalf.

Just stay out of their way.

geeknow
03-16-2009, 10:47 AM
Conclusion;

The check has been accepted and cashed. A new gun has been purchased (thanks to the calgunner who sold it to me). Per hoffmang, I am compiling all of the paperwork, correspondence, and timeline that accompanied this mess. When complete, it will be forwarded to "the right people" to be used should the same occur to another member in the future.

Thanks very much to all who offered advice, their thoughts, and support. It is appreciated.

Mods,
I think that the curtain should fall on this show. Please put it to bed. Thanks.

DDT
03-16-2009, 12:40 PM
congrats. I'm sorry you lost your non-rostered firearm and hope you enjoy your new gun.

fullrearview
03-16-2009, 12:42 PM
Try to get market value . . .

:iagree:

as long as it is more:43: