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View Full Version : OCGJ backs Hutchens limited CCW policy.


bg
02-24-2009, 3:05 AM
Their statement is a direct slap to anyone regarding self
defense. >
Orange County Grand Jury decision (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/local/Los_Angeles/Orange_County_Register/SIG=12pov2ors/**http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ocregister.com%2Farticles%2Fper mits-gun-policy-2316575-hutchens-grand)
excerpt

The Orange County grand jury has a message for county supervisors, gun rights advocates and everyone else who disagrees with Sheriff Sandra Hutchens' plan to reduce concealed weapons permits: "Let the sheriff do her job."

That's the title of the grand jury report to be released today ., according to a confidential copy obtained by The Orange County Register.

Hutchens has spent months arguing with local lawmakers and gun advocates over her plan to make it tougher to get gun permits.

Critics have said that Hutchens, a former Los Angeles Police Department administrator, is mistakenly bringing an LA-standard to a staunchly Republican county. Hutchens argues she is just enforcing state law and refuses to use the permit issue to advance policy beliefs on gun rights.

"An orderly society is the goal. Public safety is the paramount consideration," concludes the grand jury report. "The fact that public clamor has reached the ears of politicians is irrelevant."
Humm, whatever happened to "We The People" ?

DDT
02-24-2009, 5:17 AM
Perhaps AB 357 should be named "The Sandra Hutchens Protection Act."

That would be the ultimate irony. Some grabber finally getting the state to recognize a right they were more than happy to trample for years.

tango-52
02-24-2009, 5:24 AM
reading the article, the GJ says that Carona had no written policy. Wrong. The gang at OCCCWS has it archived:

http://www.occcws.com/?p=608


Somebody fed the GJ a bunch of misinformation to give the Queen a cover for her bad policy. I wonder if this is Rackauckus paying her back for his CCW?

OCCCWS
02-24-2009, 7:39 AM
It doesn't take a law professor to know who fed the GJ the incorrect info they relied upon for this report.

Glock22Fan
02-24-2009, 7:52 AM
What concerns me is the number of comments in the article actually supporting the sheriff. I've noticed this before on some other stories and I am afraid that "Shall Issue" might get considerable opposition when it comes to the 2010 election, despite what the gun-owners of O.C. believe. I hope I'm wrong.

tango-52
02-24-2009, 8:00 AM
What concerns me is the number of comments in the article actually supporting the sheriff. I've noticed this before on some other stories and I am afraid that "Shall Issue" might get considerable opposition when it comes to the 2010 election, despite what the gun-owners of O.C. believe. I hope I'm wrong.

I've noticed this on all articles that are negative to the Sheriff. I believe she has some of her staff doing damage control, probably on County time.

DDT
02-24-2009, 8:44 AM
I've noticed this on all articles that are negative to the Sheriff. I believe she has some of her staff doing damage control, probably on County time.

Now that would be AWESOME to prove. Anyone have access to IP logs of sites they comment on?

tango-52
02-24-2009, 9:41 AM
Now that would be AWESOME to prove. Anyone have access to IP logs of sites they comment on?

We can't PRA the logs from the OC Register or Red County because they aren't public agencies. However, we could encourage the publishers to do some research. :D

GuyW
02-24-2009, 9:48 AM
Grand juries are as bad, or as good, as the people serving on them. Typically, they get to set their own agenda. HOWEVER, if the members are the type to defer to staff and not independent thinkers / take charge folks, we get a worthless, toothless rubber-stamp group that the establishment plays like a fiddle.

....looks like that's the case in OC right now...

OTOH, maybe some OC folks can interact with the Grand Jury and get some intell...
.

Glock22Fan
02-24-2009, 10:21 AM
Who set this topic in front of the G.J. and who spoke against/in favor?

How representative are they?

CAL.BAR
02-24-2009, 10:26 AM
Grand juries are as bad, or as good, as the people serving on them. Typically, they get to set their own agenda. HOWEVER, if the members are the type to defer to staff and not independent thinkers / take charge folks, we get a worthless, toothless rubber-stamp group that the establishment plays like a fiddle.

....looks like that's the case in OC right now...

OTOH, maybe some OC folks can interact with the Grand Jury and get some intell...
.

RE Grand juries: They are a cross section of our community. As stated above, they are as good or bad as the people serving on them. Remember CCW's are less than 1 thousand in a county of 3 MILLION plus people. At that rate CCW's account for LESS THAN 1/30,000th of 1 percent of the people living in the "conservative republican" community!! At that rate, there are probably more Danish clog dancing ferret owners than CCW activists. In short Hutchens is playing the numbers. She knows CCW's just don't amount to enough people to matter. And the other sad shocker is that outside the CCW community, there is VERY LITTLE interest in "people running around with guns" Not my personal belief, but a sad truth discovered in talking to many
"non-gun" people.

Sad but true.

Glock22Fan
02-24-2009, 10:35 AM
Last edited by djandj; 02-24-2009 at 11:27 AM.. Reason: spelling

I know that it is considered unnecessary by some to pay attention to spelling and grammar, but I applaud djandj for taking the trouble to do this.

yellowfin
02-24-2009, 10:58 AM
RE Grand juries: They are a cross section of our community. As stated above, they are as good or bad as the people serving on them. Remember CCW's are less than 1 thousand in a county of 3 MILLION plus people. At that rate CCW's account for LESS THAN 1/30,000th of 1 percent of the people living in the "conservative republican" community!! At that rate, there are probably more Danish clog dancing ferret owners than CCW activists. In short Hutchens is playing the numbers. She knows CCW's just don't amount to enough people to matter. And the other sad shocker is that outside the CCW community, there is VERY LITTLE interest in "people running around with guns" Not my personal belief, but a sad truth discovered in talking to many
"non-gun" people.

Sad but true.I can think of a lot of small minority groups that completely defy the smallness of their numbers and exert more influence than we do. It's not a size issue, it's an awareness issue.

Sutcliffe
02-24-2009, 11:07 AM
Using the local law enforcement to harrass attendees? How about spying on the Board with the video equipment?

bigmike82
02-24-2009, 11:16 AM
"An orderly society is the goal. Public safety is the paramount consideration"

That's a friggin' scary comment.

CAL.BAR
02-24-2009, 12:57 PM
I can think of a lot of small minority groups that completely defy the smallness of their numbers and exert more influence than we do. It's not a size issue, it's an awareness issue.

I cannot think of a minority group as small as 1/30,000th of a percent affecting the general trend of legislation. Pick any major minority that has any sway, and they will be A LOT more than a fraction of a percent of the population. (Blacks = 10-12% of US population, gays = between 1% and 10% of US Population)

No matter how vocal, such a small group cannot change everyone else's mind - especially on an issue so contentious as guns (and the fear they instill) in everyday (i.e. non-gun owning) people.

You can shout as loudly as you want, but when you are alone adrift at sea it doesn't matter much.

nick
02-24-2009, 1:03 PM
Humm, whatever happened to "We The People" ?

Well, this question is easy to answer. "Public safety is the paramount consideration" :p

The fun part is, of course, that it doesn't improve public safety, either, it's quite the other way around. Which makes the 'Those who would trade liberty for little temporary safety...' saying a prophecy in more ways than one. Here you see people trading away their (and others') liberty for an erroneos illusion of safety and receiving or deserving neither.

nick
02-24-2009, 1:06 PM
Actually, a grand jury is not necessarily a sample of the community. Just something for those of us who shirk it (and I'm guilty of that, too) to consider.

Cypren
02-24-2009, 1:58 PM
Remember CCW's are less than 1 thousand in a county of 3 MILLION plus people. At that rate CCW's account for LESS THAN 1/30,000th of 1 percent of the people living in the "conservative republican" community!!

It's about 1/30th of 1 percent: (1000 / 3000000) * 100 = 0.033%

Still not good odds. But there are lots of us who don't have CCWs but still back the right anyway. You can't just count permit holders when measuring the political sway; you have to count people who were denied or dissuaded from applying due to the difficulty or restrictions as well.

Glock22Fan
02-24-2009, 2:27 PM
It's about 1/30th of 1 percent: (1000 / 3000000) * 100 = 0.033%

Still not good odds. But there are lots of us who don't have CCWs but still back the right anyway. You can't just count permit holders when measuring the political sway; you have to count people who were denied or dissuaded from applying due to the difficulty or restrictions as well.

And people who have no wish to own a gun, but have no problems with law-abiding citizens exercising the 2nd and carrying. I believe that recent surveys say that a majority of the population believes in the Second as an individual right.

Yankee Clipper
02-24-2009, 2:43 PM
It's about 1/30th of 1 percent: (1000 / 3000000) * 100 = 0.033%

Still not good odds. But there are lots of us who don't have CCWs but still back the right anyway. You can't just count permit holders when measuring the political sway; you have to count people who were denied or dissuaded from applying due to the difficulty or restrictions as well.

"difficulty" for many of us when Corona held sway was the cost: plus or minus $500.00 to complete the permit process. For a few us us that was a big number.

GuyW
02-24-2009, 3:22 PM
Actually, a grand jury is not necessarily a sample of the community. Just something for those of us who shirk it (and I'm guilty of that, too) to consider.

Typically, members are retired, because they meet during the day, and often have quite a workload.

rynando
02-24-2009, 7:09 PM
And people who have no wish to own a gun, but have no problems with law-abiding citizens exercising the 2nd and carrying. I believe that recent surveys say that a majority of the population believes in the Second as an individual right.

Sadly, I doubt that a similar survey in an area like OC could say that a real majority of the citizenry support CCWs.

R

rynando
02-24-2009, 7:29 PM
RE Grand juries: They are a cross section of our community. As stated above, they are as good or bad as the people serving on them. Remember CCW's are less than 1 thousand in a county of 3 MILLION plus people. At that rate CCW's account for LESS THAN 1/30,000th of 1 percent of the people living in the "conservative republican" community!! At that rate, there are probably more Danish clog dancing ferret owners than CCW activists. In short Hutchens is playing the numbers. She knows CCW's just don't amount to enough people to matter. And the other sad shocker is that outside the CCW community, there is VERY LITTLE interest in "people running around with guns" Not my personal belief, but a sad truth discovered in talking to many
"non-gun" people.

Sad but true.

I agree. I don’t think the sheriff is going to have a hard time being re-elected. Who knows though; her and her subbordinates have dealt so poorly with the polish cavalry style assult the OC activists launched that anything’s possible.

Rather then just dismissing them as relics of her corrupt predessor, saying that CA law is on her side and racking up a nice “victory for pubic saftey” she watched her staff make negitive headlines for her through impossible to mistake LEO intimidation. That shows very poor political thinking. Maybe she’ll learn from this or maybe she won’t.

R

Number 6
02-24-2009, 9:58 PM
I want to read the full grand jury report, but what is quoted from the grand jury in the OC register article I find offensive as a political scientist. The OC grand jury needs to understand the nature of our political system regardless of their stance on the 2nd amendment.

mymonkeyman
02-24-2009, 10:15 PM
Actually, a grand jury is not necessarily a sample of the community. Just something for those of us who shirk it (and I'm guilty of that, too) to consider.

Even worse, the civil grand jury (as opposed to criminal petit and grand juries and civil petit juries) is randomly selected from a pool of volunteers that have nothing better to do with their lives.

retired
02-24-2009, 10:56 PM
Even worse, the civil grand jury (as opposed to criminal petit and grand juries and civil petit juries) is randomly selected from a pool of volunteers that have nothing better to do with their lives.

Hey, I have nothing better to do with my life being retired; I believe I will try to become appointed to the Riverside County Grand Jury and see what effect, if any, I can have on this county.