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View Full Version : Treating the 1st. amendment like the 2nd?


Mikey
02-23-2009, 3:44 PM
Just thinkin'...

If the government were to treat the 1st. amendment as the government has treated and interpreted the 2nd amendment:

We will soon be asking:

Is the right of free speech an “individual right”?
Is the “Right of free Speech” limited to the clergy and the press?
Can private citizens and individuals have the “Right to Peaceable Assemble”?
Is “Free Speech” a right that citizens can express in public?
Will we need a permit to express our right of free speech in public?
Will there be a background check?
When will the government start to restrict our “right of free speech” in our homes also?
How much will the permit cost, if we qualify?
Is there a word limit?
What are the approved words and phrases?

domokun
02-23-2009, 4:37 PM
The only catch here is that the 1st Amendment has been incorporated unlike the 2nd Amendment which has yet to be incorporated. Hence, most of the questions you're posing may not be constitutional. :TFH:

Kid Stanislaus
02-23-2009, 5:11 PM
The only catch here is that the 1st Amendment has been incorporated unlike the 2nd Amendment which has yet to be incorporated. Hence, most of the questions you're posing may not be constitutional. :TFH:


But that's not his point.

Mikey
02-23-2009, 7:22 PM
But that's not his point.

You're right.

Maybe I need to spell it out.

Hmmm, time will tell......

yellowfin
02-23-2009, 7:24 PM
It's probably not that far off. Britain lost their gun rights and then speech has been severely limited. Constitutional guarantees don't mean squat when we have a government that completely ignores the Constitution in the first place.

EOD3
02-23-2009, 8:13 PM
IMHO, the 1st has been trashed almost as badly as the 2nd. I can't think of any portion of the BOR that hasn't been sold to the highest bidder. :(

NotSoFast
02-23-2009, 10:56 PM
We are already limited in what we can say. Try saying a prayer before a high school football game for example. Or reading aloud from the Bible in school. Yes, they are already working to abridge our First Amendment rights as well.

DDT
02-23-2009, 11:40 PM
Try donating to a campaign in any meaningful amount. Try running your own commercials too close to an election. There are plenty of infringements on our first amendment rights.

and the Fairness Doctrine is likely to come down the road soon too.

Sam
02-23-2009, 11:45 PM
this is a good thread.


IMHO, the 1st has been trashed almost as badly as the 2nd. I can't think of any portion of the BOR that hasn't been sold to the highest bidder. :(

that 3rd amendment is alive and kicking

Cypren
02-23-2009, 11:57 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17853&stc=1&d=1235465714
(Randall Munroe is a genius. (http://www.xkcd.com/496/))

yellowfin
02-24-2009, 12:08 AM
The 13th amendment has been voided by abuse of the 16th.

DDT
02-24-2009, 5:23 AM
The 13th amendment has been voided by abuse of the 16th.

As unfair as the income tax may be it is hardly slavery. This type of hyperbole makes future valid arguments pass more rigorous scrutiny. Like crying wolf.

EOD3
02-24-2009, 4:03 PM
this is a good thread.

that 3rd amendment is alive and kicking

Do you remember a while back when they decided that breaking into your house, while you're away, and planting surveillance devices so your activities can be monitored is hunky-dory.

Just my BAC

AlexBreya
02-24-2009, 4:18 PM
As unfair as the income tax may be it is hardly slavery. This type of hyperbole makes future valid arguments pass more rigorous scrutiny. Like crying wolf.

But you have to admit, income taxes are pretty bad, and unethical...

yellowfin
02-24-2009, 4:20 PM
As unfair as the income tax may be it is hardly slavery. This type of hyperbole makes future valid arguments pass more rigorous scrutiny. Like crying wolf. Exactly how is it not slavery to have in total federal taxes (combined income, SS/Medicare, corp income on things we buy, and excises) being 40-50% or more? Working literally half of your days for involuntary extraction of one's services- how is that any exaggeration? Subtract out taxes and cost of living, then consider property taxes being enforceable by taking of one's residents then tell me just how from being owned we really are. That's not tin foil hat or crying wolf, that's fact.

Cypren
02-24-2009, 4:27 PM
Exactly how is it not slavery...

Because the federal government can't buy or sell you, and they can't arbitrarily kill you with no process and no consequences. (Yeah, I realize that the consequences are usually minor, but there are still consequences.)

Unjust theft? Absolutely. Coerced labor? Certainly. But slavery? Making that argument strikes me as a careless trivialization of the millions of people throughout history who have suffered under the whip of real oppression.

Whiskey_Sauer
02-24-2009, 4:33 PM
Just thinkin'...

If the government were to treat the 1st. amendment as the government has treated and interpreted the 2nd amendment:

We will soon be asking:

Is the right of free speech an “individual right”?
Is the “Right of free Speech” limited to the clergy and the press?
Can private citizens and individuals have the “Right to Peaceable Assemble”?
Is “Free Speech” a right that citizens can express in public?
Will we need a permit to express our right of free speech in public?
Will there be a background check?
When will the government start to restrict our “right of free speech” in our homes also?
How much will the permit cost, if we qualify?
Is there a word limit?
What are the approved words and phrases?

I understand the point of your post, but you have to understand that many of these questions have, in fact, been litigated, going back over the past 80 years. There is an extremely large body of law, most notably many Supreme Court decisions that decided questions like this. Today, we generally take the right to free speech under the First Amendment for granted, but it was not an easy road to travel.

The reason that questions regarding the Second Amendment is, at least until 2008, unsettled is because the courts -- and most notably the Supreme Court -- essentially shelved the issue as to whether it guaranteed an individual right. Now that this one issue has been decided, however, there's a lot of individual cases yet to be litigated that go to the power of the state to regulate this right.