View Full Version : LA Times Opinion 2/27/09 - OC CCW

02-17-2009, 6:06 AM

From the Los Angeles Times
Under the gun
Orange County supervisors should have Sheriff Sandra Hutchens' back in a fight about concealed-weapons permits.

February 17, 2009

Orange County supervisors were looking for someone to transform the sheriff's office when they hired an outsider last year to replace disgraced Sheriff Michael S. Carona. Now they're complaining that the new sheriff isn't sensitive to the culture of Orange County. If by "culture" they mean concealed-weapons permits handed out to people who have no legitimate need to carry guns on the streets, then yes, Sheriff Sandra Hutchens is not one to honor tradition, and we admire her for that.

Among Hutchens' first announcements as sheriff was that she would systematically review the county's 1,000 active permits and require their holders to have a reason for packing a gun -- aside from a desire to do so. That could include a job such as owning a jewelry store, or a history of having been threatened or harassed. Times have changed, and so has Orange County. It is no longer an outpost of cattle ranches and lima-bean fields; it's a diverse metropolitan area, and it should operate like one.

Hutchens, a retired division chief from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, spent her career in a county with three times the population of Orange County's but with about one-third the number of concealed-weapons permits. She brings a new sensibility to the Sheriff's Department, sorely needed after Carona gave permits to friends and political donors. One of these, Carona's former martial-arts instructor, was sentenced to six months in prison after making a dangerous fool of himself on a golf course by drawing his gun in a dispute about a wayward fairway shot.

County supervisors have been pressured by the permit holders who stand to lose their privileges. But considering that this amounts to about 500 people in a county of 3 million, the board should not interpret the carrying of guns to be a venerated part of Orange County culture. Hutchens' staff has worsened tensions by acting inappropriately during board meetings on the gun issue, at one point directing security cameras toward the notes of two supervisors, and in another case sending text messages that poked fun at the people there. Hutchens has apologized and launched investigations; more important, she must assert control over her staff's conduct, just as she has asserted authority over gun permits.

The law offers sheriffs broad leeway in determining what constitutes a legitimate reason to carry a gun; we think Hutchens is bringing the correct balance to this matter. The supervisors courageously sought radical change in the sheriff's operations. The easy part of that was hiring Hutchens; the harder part is sticking by her when change becomes uncomfortable.

02-17-2009, 7:11 AM
a LOS ANGELES Times reporter opinionating for ORANGE COUNTY?

very good, I think they are different geographical locations to have different culture. they are close, alright, but far enough to have its differences.

furthermore, I myself am not too impressed with a Sheriff Chief who uses the resources of its customer AND employer (OC Board of Supervisors), ONLY for its agenda purposes, and NOT for REAL courtroom security issues.

was there anybody armed in that courtroom? I don't think so. I just think they wanted to identify the right people, so the Gestapo could go after them.
If a citizen cannot even be at a public court hearing FREELY, that means there's zero civil rights left to the average citizen.

02-17-2009, 7:55 AM
As I was leaving the BOS meeting, I heard someone behind me saying that they wanted nothing to do with the LA times.

After reading that article, I dont think the author lives in the same LA that I know. Not the peachy utopia that he portrays.

02-17-2009, 7:48 PM
I posted this in regards to jonathan's comments and the article. I'm not sure if they will approve the comment though as it's been a few hours.


Sure, jonathan.

Let's take a look at your post first.

It's filled with simple conjecture and assumptions. Yet cites no specific data or statistics itself.

How does keeping a gun "handy for protection" mean no safe and no trigger lock? Is your opinion based on any actual firearm safety knowledge or experience?

Regarding you stating Crime Statistics, for LA county are lower than Phoenix (part of Maricopa County), without posting any data or citing a source to qualify it.

Here are some stats pulled from fedstats.gov (based on the FBI's statistics):

Per capita, Maricopa County is only beating LA County in types of crimes related to theft. LA county has far more violent crimes (Murder, Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assualt) per capita than Maricopa County does.

LA County's Population in 2000 was 9,519,338 (US Census).

Crime - Number of instances
Total - 383,722
Murder - 1,006
Rape - 2,761
Robbery - 28,416
Aggravated Assault - 57,803
Burglary - 60,597
Larceny/theft - 164,602
Motor vehicle thefts - 64,266
Coverage indicator - 100%

Maricopa (Phoenix included) County's Population in 2000 was 3,072,149 (US Census).

Crime - Number of instances
Total - 192,909
Murder - 228 (less per capita than LA)
Rape - 926 (equal rate of LA)
Robbery - 5,361 (much less per capita than LA)
Aggravated Assault - 10,481 (much less per capita than LA)
Burglary - 34,192
Larceny/theft - 109,232
Motor vehicle thefts - 31,868
Coverage indicator - 100%

Here's a look at Crime Stastics for Orange County (population - 2,846,289) in 2000:

Crime Number (Estimate)
Total - 75,235 (much less per capita than LA)
Murder - 56 (much less per capita than LA)
Rape - 500 (much less per capita than LA)
Robbery - 2,820 (much less per capita than LA)
Aggravated Assault - 5,250 (much less per capita than LA)
Burglary - 12,165 (much less per capita than LA)
Larceny/theft - 43,897 (much less per capita than LA)
Motor vehicle thefts - 9,854 (much less per capita than LA)
Coverage indicator - 99%

To keep it simple: Law abiding citizens follow guns laws. Criminals do not.

To help keep the public safe, Sheriff Hutchens should spend more of her's and her department's time and effort on enforcing current gun laws instead of taking away CCW's from law abiding citizens that have been issued a CCW under a previous sherirf.

Frome the above statistics, it looks like Orange County was doing just fine, crime wise, without Sherrif Hutchens in office. I'd prefer to not have to bet my life or anyone elses on her making Orange County more like the "wonderful" county (LA) she came from.

02-19-2009, 9:58 AM
If by "culture" they mean concealed-weapons permits handed out to people who have no legitimate need to carry guns on the streets,This precise component of the anti CCW crowd/"laws"/LE is what hacks me off perhaps more than most of it. Who the hell are these people to play god, determining "need" for self defense?!?! :mad:

02-19-2009, 10:09 AM
Stupid LA Slimes!

02-19-2009, 10:32 AM
I posted this in regards to jonathan's comments and the article. I'm not sure if they will approve the comment though as it's been a few hours.


sucks the author edited out all of your statistics and only allowed your opinion to show. Might have something to do with the fact you just made him look like an idiot.

02-19-2009, 10:47 AM
The entirety of his reply is there, it's just broken up into different posts.

02-19-2009, 10:54 AM
I hate the LA times.

02-19-2009, 9:07 PM
Great post JellyTheory :thumbsup: