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View Full Version : NV in CA, what is legal?


IGOTDIRT4U
02-16-2009, 11:28 AM
Started as a derail in another thread, but as far as CA is concerned, when, what and where is NV allowed for ordinary citizens? Scopes? Night goggles? Monocules? With/without illimunation? Etc?

sorensen440
02-16-2009, 11:38 AM
Good idea I was thinking of starting a thread myself

Quiet
02-16-2009, 11:52 AM
AFAIK...
All hand held NV is good to go.

NV mounted on firearms can not have an active IR illuminator.



Penal Code 468
Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

CSACANNONEER
02-16-2009, 11:53 AM
AFAIK...
All hand held NV is good to go.

NV mounted on firearms can not have an active IR illuminator.



Penal Code 468
Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

That's all that needs to be said on this subject.

sorensen440
02-16-2009, 11:54 AM
AFAIK...
All hand held NV is good to go.

NV mounted on firearms can not have an active IR illuminator.



Penal Code 468
Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.
So does anyone make non IR illuminated NV scopes ?

Quiet
02-16-2009, 12:06 PM
So does anyone make non IR illuminated NV scopes ?

AFAIK...
Some US & Soviet military 1st generation NV scopes did not have active IR.
US military 1st gen = made in the 60's
Soviet military 1st gen = made in the 70's

ke6guj
02-16-2009, 12:09 PM
AFAIK, those older zero and first generation scopes really needed the IR illuminator. Think of the setup on the M3 carbine.

I've heard that the newer 2nd and 3rd generation stuff may still have an IR illuminator, even though it isn't required for normal usage. If one had the funds to buy one, it may be possible to have the illuminator disabled.

grammaton76
02-16-2009, 12:12 PM
Short and simple answer... if your weapon-mounted NV device either does not magnify ("electronic telescope" - it's not a telescope if it doesn't magnify), or does not have an illuminator, it is not prohibited in CA.

Thermal IR is legal, as is a passive collector. You can mount an IR flashlight on your head if you want, just don't mount it on the weapon.

As for the illuminators, bear in mind that a lot of the scopes out there have un-screwable (or otherwise removable) illuminators - just take it off the scope. As long as the illumination source isn't mounted to the weapon (this is me being safety minded here - it's probably defensible as long as it's not on the sope), you're fine. Stick the IR illuminator on you or in a hand-held flashlight.

CSACANNONEER
02-16-2009, 12:17 PM
So does anyone make non IR illuminated NV scopes ?

Yes, I saw one at Angeles yesterday.

Clodbuster
02-16-2009, 12:27 PM
The PC section reads:

use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope

not either/or as you state.

Clod

Short and simple answer... if your weapon-mounted NV device either does not magnify ("electronic telescope" - it's not a telescope if it doesn't magnify), or does not have an illuminator, it is not prohibited in CA.

Thermal IR is legal, as is a passive collector. You can mount an IR flashlight on your head if you want, just don't mount it on the weapon.

As for the illuminators, bear in mind that a lot of the scopes out there have un-screwable (or otherwise removable) illuminators - just take it off the scope. As long as the illumination source isn't mounted to the weapon (this is me being safety minded here - it's probably defensible as long as it's not on the sope), you're fine. Stick the IR illuminator on you or in a hand-held flashlight.

grammaton76
02-16-2009, 12:29 PM
The PC section reads:

use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope

not either/or as you state.

Logical translation issue here.

PC is stating what's prohibited (and)

I'm stating what's not prohibited (or, not and).

Clodbuster
02-16-2009, 12:30 PM
Many of the ATN scopes have detachable/removal IR illuminators.

Clod

So does anyone make non IR illuminated NV scopes ?

IGOTDIRT4U
02-16-2009, 12:45 PM
So, Eotech 553 and NV unit with IR illumination is no-no, but Leupold Mk IV and IR Illum NV is ok?

grammaton76
02-16-2009, 1:12 PM
So, Eotech 553 and NV unit with IR illumination is no-no

Not sure what exact configuration you mean here, but an EOtech with an NV reticle is ok if you're using it with IR goggles. Heck, mount an IR illuminator on the weapon too if you want, the actual NV gear is going to be head-mounted and not a "scope" in that case.

Leupold Mk IV and IR Illum NV is ok?

Are you talking about chaining an NV scope with illumination behind a Leupold? Definitely wouldn't be ok in the configuration I'm thinking of.

CSACANNONEER
02-16-2009, 1:14 PM
Many of the ATN scopes have detachable/removal IR illuminators.

Clod

I wouldn't put an ATN on my supersoaker let alone a firearm.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-16-2009, 1:15 PM
Not sure what exact configuration you mean here, but an EOtech with an NV reticle is ok if you're using it with IR goggles. Heck, mount an IR illuminator on the weapon too if you want, the actual NV gear is going to be head-mounted and not a "scope" in that case.



Are you talking about chaining an NV scope with illumination behind a Leupold? Definitely wouldn't be ok in the configuration I'm thinking of.

Got it. I was thinking the wrong way around.

TheBundo
02-16-2009, 2:18 PM
Put area-wide illuminaters all over your house, permanent, always on.

rabagley
02-16-2009, 5:01 PM
Question: so an Eotech 551 stacked with a PVS-14 is fine (if there is no IR illuminator on the rifle) for two reasons:

1) The stack is not magnifying.
2) The rifle does not have an IR illuminator.

I wouldn't put an ATN on my supersoaker let alone a firearm.

Why is that? ATN has the military contract, right? I don't see other Gen-3 NV systems with lower prices or any claims of superior performance...

grammaton76
02-16-2009, 5:38 PM
Question: so an Eotech 551 stacked with a PVS-14 is fine (if there is no IR illuminator on the rifle) for two reasons:

1) The stack is not magnifying.
2) The rifle does not have an IR illuminator.

Should be ok, although I wouldn't bet money on it not being magnifying. When I contacted posp.ru a while back, I found out that all of their NV optics magnify something like 1.1x or so.

But yes, leaving the emitter off is enough to make it safe regardless.

SchooBaka
02-16-2009, 7:58 PM
AFAIK...
All hand held NV is good to go.

NV mounted on firearms can not have an active IR illuminator.



Penal Code 468
Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

Scientific research,
Like studying the impact on local populations of varmints when the heard of a particular species is thinned by means other than nature?

Educational purposes,
Educating myself and others on the scientific methods involved in the study of varmint populations?

:p

N6ATF
02-16-2009, 8:07 PM
:dupe:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=72523&highlight=nightvision

CSACANNONEER
02-17-2009, 4:46 AM
Question: so an Eotech 551 stacked with a PVS-14 is fine (if there is no IR illuminator on the rifle) for two reasons:

1) The stack is not magnifying.
2) The rifle does not have an IR illuminator.



Why is that? ATN has the military contract, right? I don't see other Gen-3 NV systems with lower prices or any claims of superior performance...


In the past, ATN has refused to stand behind their products. When they first started advertising scopes rated for 50BMG a few guys tried them and they broke right away. ATN would not fix them without charging for their work. It got so bad that the FCSA refuses to allow ATN to buy advertising space in any FCSA publication. I will not support a company who's doesn't stand behind their product when it is used exactly as it is advertised to be used.