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JHermsen
02-16-2009, 7:21 AM
SMGC kicked off the first 1000 yd program to be fired at MCBCP since 1982. The event was well attended and actually had outstanding conditions to fire in, the attendees agreed that an outstanding time was has by all.

Saturday consisted of instruction on proper firing technique and reading wind conditions given by Harry Harrison (shooting god), followed by live fire at 800yds and 1000.

Sunday was epic with minimal to no wind. The day started with instruction on reloading techniques for long range by a master of reloading for the Marine Corps rifle team at Quantico; Can you say "pearls of knowledge" boys and girls? Class was followed with firing at 800, 900 and 1000yds.

This was an excellent entree to 1K shooting with pertinent information for new shooters to Masters.

See you all for the next one!

Martin Tardif
02-16-2009, 7:41 AM
John,
When would the sign-in for the next LR Match be? Will there be a maximum shooter limit?

JHermsen
02-16-2009, 6:33 PM
Hi Martin,

I would preregister now if interested because there is a limit to the number of entrants that can be accommodated at Range 117. There are only 10 active firing points so with 3 relays that's about 30.

Check the website schedule for the next event, it is the most accurate.

John

xibunkrlilkidsx
02-17-2009, 8:10 AM
GAH!! why didnt i know about this!

website where i can sign up? do you guys allow observers. im still learning techniques and getting my rifle where i want it.

ocabj
02-17-2009, 11:25 AM
http://www.santamargaritagunclub.org

xibunkrlilkidsx
02-17-2009, 3:43 PM
ah freaking sweet. id probably want to start f-class, but i don't see any scheduled.

ocabj
02-17-2009, 3:50 PM
All of the LR events are open to F-Class shooters.

xibunkrlilkidsx
02-20-2009, 8:05 AM
All of the LR events are open to F-Class shooters.
ah cool...and you guys have a typo. http://www.santamargaritagunclub.org/?page_id=47
15 rounds with 2 sighters at 900 rounds,

ocabj
02-20-2009, 8:12 AM
and the rounds HAVE to be 155gr...crap i dont have any. Everything i have is 147gr, it just what was availible.

You can shoot the Palma COF with any cartridge. To actually shoot in the "Palma Category" you are limited to 155gr or less.

Even then, a 147gr in .308 isn't going to make it to 1000 yards.

UncleSamsMisguidedChild
03-16-2009, 4:19 AM
I would be really interested in this, but the only rifle I own right now is a Mosin Nagant W/ open sights. I've been looking at getting a Remington 700 and setting it up for long range shooting like this. Where is this site to sign up?

alpha_romeo_XV
03-16-2009, 10:58 AM
I like to see new shooters welcomed to club events and I think its even required by NRA bylaws for sanctioned matches, but please keep in mind a couple of things –
1. Please try to go to a couple of the practice events before a scored match where others are shooting for classification. Matches are timed events and require good “pit service”, that is you will have to pull and mark target for another shooter in the relay process. Learning to pull a target correct and fast takes some practice. I’ve seen some horrible pit technique and had to try to coach people on both sides of me, while still trying to do a good job on my assigned target. Bad pit service really penalizes the guy back on the firing line. Its not that tough just takes a little learning the ropes.
2. Please know your sights and ammo. While a stock Mosin has that cute “calibrated’ elevation rear sight, remember it was for one specific ammo probably not yours, and more important it has no field adjustment for windage. This applies to a lot of mil surp’s. At 1000 yds you may need 5 to 15 feet of wind correction at the target, that can be 10 to 30 MOA wind adjustment at your sights, depending on the bullet BC and wind direction and speed. With no sight windage adjustment you have to use “Kentucky windage”, that is aim off target to a tree or other target on the left or right of your own and know how much. I’ve never seen this go well with a new shooter, usually they end up frustrated.
Beyond that I encourage anyone to try something new, learn and grow, and have fun.

UncleSamsMisguidedChild
03-17-2009, 3:16 AM
I really appreciate your input but, I have plenty of range shooting experience and pit service I served 8 years in the Marines @ Camp Pendleton, and know what you mean about horrible pit service. I've been on the receiving end of that service more than once. I had no intention of using my Nagant for this type of shooting, I have been looking at purchasing a Remington 700 .223 and setting it up with a nice scope.

ocabj
03-17-2009, 8:11 PM
I had no intention of using my Nagant for this type of shooting, I have been looking at purchasing a Remington 700 .223 and setting it up with a nice scope.

Just to familiarize you with the types of matches that SMGC holds, the SMGC shoots the following formats:

1. High Power Rifle
2. Mid-Range Prone
3. Long Range Prone

Go to the website at http://www.santamargaritagunclub.org for a breakdown of the formats.

Basically, High Power Rifle is shot from standing, sitting/kneeling, and prone using a rifle with iron sights.

Mid-Range prone and long range prone can shot from the prone position using iron sights or any sights (scopes).

High Power, Mid-Range, and Long Range are all shot with sling support only (except the standing position); no bipods, sandbags, or any type of artificial rest.

Mid-Range and Long Range prone matches held by the SMGC can accommodate F-Class shooters, which is another format in the NRA rules. F-Class is the only format the SMGC matches support that allow artificial rests (as defined in the NRA rulebook).

Since you served in the Marines, you're already familiar with the Across the Course format since your Marine Corps qualification uses the same positions.

But for the prone matches (Mid-Range, Long Range, and F-Class), you may want to check out a match in person. This Sunday has a scheduled 3x600 mid-range prone match, so that may be a good day to visit the Wilcox range.

UncleSamsMisguidedChild
03-19-2009, 2:11 AM
As much as I would love to come and see one of these matches in person, I have plans this weekend that I cannot break. I really appreciate the info about SMGC and the types of matches you host. It appears I will have to rethink my next rifle purchase and get an AR15 or an M1A and I'm leaning towards the M1A since I pretty much shot an AR15 for all those years it would be challenging for me to switch. I'm kinda torn on what class to do though, High power is familiar to me, although Long Range is something I have wanted to do since I was in the Marines. When is the next match after the one comming up? I'll clear my schedule for that one so I can attend.

Jicko
03-19-2009, 7:27 PM
1. Please try to go to a couple of the practice events before a scored match where others are shooting for classification. Matches are timed events and require good “pit service”, that is you will have to pull and mark target for another shooter in the relay process. Learning to pull a target correct and fast takes some practice. I’ve seen some horrible pit technique and had to try to coach people on both sides of me, while still trying to do a good job on my assigned target. Bad pit service really penalizes the guy back on the firing line. Its not that tough just takes a little learning the ropes.

This is where the NRA matches are not too friendly to new shooters.... I think the club need to pair some experience shooter with new shooters to mentor them in "pit techiques".... all it takes is a couple of times, and new shooters can be as good as old.... but without this... new shooters will always be new shooters!!


And if F-class (scoped rifle) is allowed, that will help too! A lot of new shooters don't need their scored enter into somewhere officially.... they just want to come out to shoot.... so, allowing non-scored shooters would be a huge win...

ocabj
03-19-2009, 8:42 PM
This is where the NRA matches are not too friendly to new shooters.... I think the club need to pair some experience shooter with new shooters to mentor them in "pit techiques".... all it takes is a couple of times, and new shooters can be as good as old.... but without this... new shooters will always be new shooters!!


And if F-class (scoped rifle) is allowed, that will help too! A lot of new shooters don't need their scored enter into somewhere officially.... they just want to come out to shoot.... so, allowing non-scored shooters would be a huge win...

The problem with 'pairing' is the regular SMGC matches run a 3-relay system with a shooter, scorer, and pit puller rotation, rather than a typical 4-relay system with a shooter+scorer and 2 pit pullers per target.

Even then, it's not that hard to teach someone new how to pull and score targets quickly. The only time a new shooter will have issues is when they pull a target for a less than stellar shooter. It's not fun having to pull a 600 yard target when the shooter is hitting all over the target, from the 10 ring to the 6 ring. Anybody can pull and mark a target for a High Master or Master in less than 10 seconds since shots tend to be in the 10-ring or X-ring (with an occasional 9-ring).

Jicko
03-19-2009, 11:04 PM
The problem with 'pairing' is the regular SMGC matches run a 3-relay system with a shooter, scorer, and pit puller rotation, rather than a typical 4-relay system with a shooter+scorer and 2 pit pullers per target.

Even then, it's not that hard to teach someone new how to pull and score targets quickly. The only time a new shooter will have issues is when they pull a target for a less than stellar shooter. It's not fun having to pull a 600 yard target when the shooter is hitting all over the target, from the 10 ring to the 6 ring. Anybody can pull and mark a target for a High Master or Master in less than 10 seconds since shots tend to be in the 10-ring or X-ring (with an occasional 9-ring).

That's why I said that SMGC is not new shooters friendly....

JHermsen
04-15-2009, 10:01 AM
I disagree with you Jicko. SMGC is very new shooter friendly. We have clinics, we take time to help new pullers, we even provide "cheat sheets" on the targets to help people with scoring. Scoring takes any normal person ten minutes to learn, bottom line.

When it comes to firing, that is the difficult part. Placement of equipment, wind, position, ect... that's the challenging part with a slower learning curve. However, we provide Olympic/World class coaching to those interested.

So once again I must disagree with you Jicko. SMGC provides one of the best and dare I say, the best venue in the State for a new shooter to come out and get started in High Power or Long Range shooting.

Sincerely,

John Hermsen, President/COB
SMGC

Jicko
05-11-2009, 8:51 AM
I disagree with you Jicko. SMGC is very new shooter friendly. We have clinics, we take time to help new pullers, we even provide "cheat sheets" on the targets to help people with scoring. Scoring takes any normal person ten minutes to learn, bottom line.

When it comes to firing, that is the difficult part. Placement of equipment, wind, position, ect... that's the challenging part with a slower learning curve. However, we provide Olympic/World class coaching to those interested.

So once again I must disagree with you Jicko. SMGC provides one of the best and dare I say, the best venue in the State for a new shooter to come out and get started in High Power or Long Range shooting.

Sincerely,

John Hermsen, President/COB
SMGC


Hi John,

I will try to come out with my buddies on 5/23 again. I really would like to come to SMGC more, and I really hope that my experience will be better than what i had before.

Please PM me and let us know how we can sign up. BTW, where is 117A? I've only been to W103.

Thanks!!

Jicko
05-23-2009, 5:26 PM
Nice seeing all of you guys.... it was a pleasant surprise to see ar15barrels, rksimple coming down this far south to this "way south cal" match....

I had a blast today!

Man, getting the X (5") @ 1k yds isn't "that" easy.... :D

rksimple
05-23-2009, 9:35 PM
Fun match. Good practice for tbrc. I had a blast!

StraightShooter
05-24-2009, 2:39 PM
Awesome match, and i got some solid dope as well as good practice with the wind.Thanks for pulling my targets Rich. Heres some pics:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Mrpaintball01/IMG_1704.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Mrpaintball01/IMG_1712.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Mrpaintball01/IMG_1719.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Mrpaintball01/IMG_1720.jpg

StraightShooter
05-24-2009, 2:42 PM
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Mrpaintball01/IMG_1725.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Mrpaintball01/IMG_1726.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Mrpaintball01/IMG_1723.jpg

bcrich
05-24-2009, 10:01 PM
No problem brandon, Dude I still cant believe that shot you pulled off.....putting your bullet in the same hole shooting out the center of the marker! AWESOME! Brandon Hathcock. We'll do it again next sun at desert marksman

Timberwolf
05-25-2009, 9:53 AM
Good pics - I had heard they had some great pits there, and well placed wind flags . . . don't expect anything that nice at DM.

SDJim
05-25-2009, 12:15 PM
Good pics - I had heard they had some great pits there, and well placed wind flags . . .
Unfortunately no two of those flags were pointing in the same direction at the same time. . .

crowbar
05-25-2009, 12:59 PM
Unfortunately no two of those flags were pointing in the same direction at the same time. . .

That's when reading the mirage comes in handy. Sometimes it even tells the truth for a moment...

Range 117A is well equipped with flags and has a Mil-Spec target pit. During yesterdays 2 x 1,000 yard match we had five Marines pull targets for us; very nice not to have to drive back and forth between relays. The match was done by 1030.

ar15barrels
05-26-2009, 11:08 AM
So when/where will the match results be posted?

ocabj
05-26-2009, 11:27 AM
The match director will email them out to participants, typically. I post them on the website whenever it comes my way.

alpha_romeo_XV
05-27-2009, 4:36 PM
When I look at the photo of the target with a shot spotter and scoring disc, it looks like the spotter is a ten but the score disc in the nine corner. Is a Palma target marked differently than a service rifle target? It looks like the Target in the posted photo has 4 score holes across the bottom versus 3. Below is a pic of the SR score disc layout that I'm used to, I could not find a Palma rule reference. I guess it would be important for the line and the pit to be clear on disc placement.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/wiskeypapa57/SRscoremarkers.jpg

Jicko
05-27-2009, 4:44 PM
They are using the "international" scoring system.

4 positions in the bottom: 7 8 9 10

alpha_romeo_XV
05-27-2009, 5:03 PM
Thanks Jicko, the key word "international" made the difference in my web search, I didn't find jack looking under Palma. The only mark in the same location is the Miss. I thought a Palma course of fire was an American sport. So why use an International scoring system? The 5 and X in the same spot, it should be pretty obvious if a white spotter vs black spotter, but that just seems wrong to me.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/wiskeypapa57/internationalscoring.jpg

ar15barrels
05-27-2009, 5:04 PM
Jicko could not reach the top of the target to score the 6,7 or M so they used the international scoring method.

Jicko
05-27-2009, 5:08 PM
Thanks Jicko, the key word "international" made the difference in my web search, I didn't find jack looking under Palma. The only mark in the same location is the Miss. I thought a Palma course of fire was an American sport. So why use an International scoring system? The 5 and X in the same spot, it should be pretty obvious if a white spotter vs black spotter, but that just seems wrong to me.

NRA is changing to the new system next year, I heard....

bcrich
05-27-2009, 5:57 PM
Jicko could not reach the top of the target to score the 6,7 or M so they used the international scoring method.

Ha! Ha! Jicko & Me both.......good thing straightshooter has mad skills and never missed (unlike me) sorry brandon for making you reach way up there for that one mike I had.

ocabj
05-27-2009, 6:00 PM
Thanks Jicko, the key word "international" made the difference in my web search, I didn't find jack looking under Palma. The only mark in the same location is the Miss. I thought a Palma course of fire was an American sport. So why use an International scoring system? The 5 and X in the same spot, it should be pretty obvious if a white spotter vs black spotter, but that just seems wrong to me.

Palma *is* actually an internationally recognized format. NRA is not only adopting the international scoring method for Palma, but also Long Range, Mid-Range, and Across the Course.

For the International scoring method, it should be described in the NRA High Power Rifle rulebook.

As far as the X and 5 being the same scoring disc location, it should be obvious when you look at your shot spotter whether or not it's in the X or 5.

I actually think the International method is good. Very helpful when the shooter on the line is constantly hitting all over the place. Very easy to relocate the scoring disc without having to reach high.