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LOW2000
02-15-2009, 12:43 PM
I decided this morning to do some hiking and geocaching alone in Cleveland National Forest so I grabbed my camelbak, garmin, trekking poles and my G19 and headed out. On the way, I had to stop and get gas which was my first time in public, a little scary, but I decided to go ahead with it.

After getting gas, and realizing no one either noticed, or cared that I was carrying, I relaxed a little and drove out to the trailhead. Once there, I realized my Adventure pass had expired so after talking to a couple other hikers for a minute and confirming that that trail had no daily pay box, I turned around to head back down the highway to Big 5.

The same couple from the trailhead followed me back to the Big5 since they also needed an Adventure pass. While he was purchasing his pass, we stood at the counter and he asked if I was going to be hiking the same trail they were, and we got into a conversation about Geocaching which he had not heard of, but I explained it and where he could go online to find out more. Unfortunately, the pass he bought was the last one at the store, so I changed my plans, drove up to my shooting range to renew my membership and then drove back home.

All in all, I UOC'd for about 2 hours, had a couple conversations, calmed down a lot, and of all things, educated someone about Geocaching without a word said about the pistol on my hip.

Experimentalist
02-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Wacky isn't it, how the elephant in the room can be so effectively ignored?

Or oftentimes people are simply unobservant. Either way, glad to hear your experience went well.

After Heller is incorporated, and The Right People say it's time, I might consider UOC'ing myself. While I admire your courage and wholeheartedly support the expression of your rights, I believe it wise to hold off on UOC until the appropriate moment in this grand chess game.

TheBundo
02-15-2009, 1:09 PM
Loaded, right? I assume so, in the National Forest

vrand
02-15-2009, 1:46 PM
:thumbsup:

drk421
02-15-2009, 1:48 PM
Just don't try it with a long gun, you'll get way different reactions!

leelaw
02-15-2009, 1:51 PM
Loaded, right? I assume so, in the National Forest

UOC is Unloaded Open Carry. He'd have to remain unloaded until he got into the National Forest

LOW2000
02-15-2009, 2:07 PM
UOC is Unloaded Open arry. He'd have to remain unloaded until he got into the National Forest

Yep, I did both, while I was in the Nat'l forest, it was LOC, coming and going and all of my other stops were UOC.

Dark&Good
02-15-2009, 3:29 PM
Well done, bro.

CitaDeL
02-15-2009, 4:21 PM
Congratulations on your first open carry excursion.

The anecdote you relay is very typical even here in California. Which is why it strikes me as odd that so few have endeavoured to assert themselves this way.

Every time this is successful, we illustrate that gun owners are not the boogeymen of Hollywood action movies or the menace that the 6 o'clock news make us out to be. This cannot be accomplished in the same way with concealed carry.

Thanks for standing the line today.

LOW2000
02-15-2009, 7:19 PM
Congratulations on your first open carry excursion.

The anecdote you relay is very typical even here in California. Which is why it strikes me as odd that so few have endeavoured to assert themselves this way.

Every time this is successful, we illustrate that gun owners are not the boogeymen of Hollywood action movies or the menace that the 6 o'clock news make us out to be. This cannot be accomplished in the same way with concealed carry.

Thanks for standing the line today.

Same reason more people don't skydive I suppose, the chance of something bad happening, although small, is too great a risk for some.

hawk1
02-15-2009, 7:24 PM
Same reason more people don't skydive I suppose, the chance of something bad happening, although small, is too great a risk for some.

So that brings me to ask you, are you ready financially, legally, and emotionally for the possibility of getting arrested? The chance is there...

LOW2000
02-15-2009, 8:03 PM
So that brings me to ask you, are you ready financially, legally, and emotionally for the possibility of getting arrested? The chance is there...

I don't think anyone is.

That said, I could fund my defense if need be. This was actually a spur of the moment thing and in some's eyes, a reckless UOC endeavor. I had no recorder, no pamphlets, etc. Only a knowledge of the laws and of nearby schools to my knowledge.

I intended to just drive to the forest, do my hike, and come home, but on the way out the door, instead of grabbing my range bag, locking my pistol and mags in the trunk, etc, I just put on my pistol and mags, got in my car, and drove there, then inserted a mag once I got to the trailhead, then took the mag back out before I got back in my car when I realized my adventure pass was expired.

It really is all quite silly in hindsight, there is no appreciable difference between when I was in the Nat'l forest vs. when I was UOC. I shoot competitively and could have drawn and loaded nearly as fast as a normal draw. The idea that one is legal, and the other is not is either sad or laughable depending on how you view things.

ETA: I do have TMLLP's phone number programmed in my cell...just in case.

hawk1
02-15-2009, 8:27 PM
...ETA: I do have TMLLP's phone number programmed in my cell...just in case.

The only thing I can add is be sure you either memorize the number or your first call has TMLLP's number. My understanding is you will not have access to your cell phone once you've been arrested. Can't say for ceratin as I have not had the privledge of handcuffs, but that is what I've been told.

tankerman
02-15-2009, 9:21 PM
What are "trekking poles", expensive sticks?

andrewj
02-15-2009, 9:49 PM
What are "trekking poles", expensive sticks?

Expensive telescoping aluminium sticks... with wrist straps

LOW2000
02-16-2009, 8:25 AM
Expensive telescoping aluminium carbon fiber sticks... with wrist straps

Fixed :thumbsup:

Kid Stanislaus
02-16-2009, 10:57 AM
After Heller is incorporated, and The Right People say it's time, I might consider UOC'ing myself. While I admire your courage and wholeheartedly support the expression of your rights, I believe it wise to hold off on UOC until the appropriate moment in this grand chess game.


This expresses my sentiment exactly. You never know when a sharp DA and an imcompetent lawyer can come together and really upset the apple cart.

Kid Stanislaus
02-16-2009, 10:59 AM
Fellow armed geocacher here... You never know what you're going to encounter off the beaten track.

If you have your hunting license you can justify your LOC on the basis that you are hunting squirrels? Of course that 45 Colt would be for the REALLY BIG squirrels (like the ones on two legs!).

Kid Stanislaus
02-16-2009, 11:04 AM
Expensive telescoping aluminium sticks... with wrist straps

I see a walking stick advertised in gun mags and other outdoor mags that sells for $250!! HO-CHEE-MAMA!! There are lots of products on the market designed for those with more money than common sense!

.454
02-16-2009, 1:13 PM
I always open carry (and loaded) when I go hiking into NF. I just make sure I have my valid hunting license with me and I don't load the revolver until I set foot on the hiking trail. Not willing to risk an UOC arrest at this time.

Decoligny
02-16-2009, 1:20 PM
I see a walking stick advertised in gun mags and other outdoor mags that sells for $250!! HO-CHEE-MAMA!! There are lots of products on the market designed for those with more money than common sense!

Mine is a custom hand-made oak model with peronally fitted handgrip. Cost me all of about 2 hours with a saw, pocket knife, sand paper, stain, and some paracord to make the handle. :D

Liberty1
02-16-2009, 2:56 PM
National Forest carry: Research County discharge ordinances.

The NF in LA County (and some others) is generally UOC only due to firearm discharge prohibiting laws triggering 12031's loaded prohibition.

andrewj
02-16-2009, 5:35 PM
Fixed :thumbsup:

Oh, youre one of them hoity toity outdoorsman who only settles for the spaceman-material products. I suppose you wear them new fancy boots made for hiking too. I think they're called "hiking boots"...?

TheBundo
02-16-2009, 5:44 PM
If you have your hunting license you can justify your LOC on the basis that you are hunting squirrels? Of course that 45 Colt would be for the REALLY BIG squirrels (like the ones on two legs!).

Why would you even need a hunting license, since in the forest, target shooting is legal, right? I went to BLM land yesterday (Panoche), and had my 357 loaded and holstered at times while shooting a different gun.

National Forest carry: Research County discharge ordinances.

The NF in LA County (and some others) is generally UOC only due to firearm discharge prohibiting laws triggering 12031's loaded prohibition.

So would a "discharge law" prevent him from simply carrying it loaded and open? I don't think so

LOW2000
02-16-2009, 5:46 PM
Mine is a custom hand-made oak model with peronally fitted handgrip. Cost me all of about 2 hours with a saw, pocket knife, sand paper, stain, and some paracord to make the handle. :D

http://media.rei.com/media/t/1196776.jpg

I think in a situation like hiking in wilderness areas alone, regardless of legal risk, i'd carry loaded for my own personal safety whether from 2 or 4 legged predators.

Model17
02-16-2009, 6:10 PM
I see a walking stick advertised in gun mags and other outdoor mags that sells for $250!! HO-CHEE-MAMA!! There are lots of products on the market designed for those with more money than common sense!

While $250 is much too expensive, trekking poles (in the $100 range) are a fantastic tool for the hiker/backpacker. I won't get into all the features, but the reduction of stress on your knees while hiking down hill is well worth the price alone.

LOW2000
02-16-2009, 6:31 PM
While $250 is much too expensive, trekking poles (in the $100 range) are a fantastic tool for the hiker/backpacker. I won't get into all the features, but the reduction of stress on your knees while hiking down hill is well worth the price alone.

The carbon fiber poles I use (12oz for the pair :eek: ) are on clearance at REI for $55 right now.

TheBundo
02-16-2009, 6:32 PM
The carbon fiber poles I use (12oz for the pair :eek: ) are on clearance at REI for $55 right now.

$55? Obviously they don't come with a built-in firearm ;)

Decoligny
02-16-2009, 6:36 PM
Why would you even need a hunting license, since in the forest, target shooting is legal, right? I went to BLM land yesterday (Panoche), and had my 357 loaded and holstered at times while shooting a different gun.



So would a "discharge law" prevent him from simply carrying it loaded and open? I don't think so

Well, you would be wrong on that one.

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

TheBundo
02-16-2009, 6:42 PM
Gotcha, dang, this is complicated

LOW2000
02-16-2009, 6:42 PM
From: http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/trails/welcome.shtml


Shooting sports activities have been enjoyed for generations and are welcomed on National Forest System lands.

Both state and federal laws apply on National Forest System lands, so you also need to check on the state laws and county ordinances which may apply to the area you will be visiting. You also need to be in compliance with any general federal laws and regulations about weapons (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), etc). The National Rifle Association of America (NRA) and many commercial publications provide this information.

The only regulations specific to use of weapons imposed by the Forest Service is that you cannot discharge a weapon within 150 yards of any structure/development or occupied area, within or into a cave, across or on a road or body of water, or in any manner that endangers a person. You also cannot use any tracer or incendiary ammunition. Forest Service regulations require that you also comply with all State laws regarding the use of firearms while hunting.

If you are planning on visiting a designated Wilderness Area, the Regional Forester or Forest Supervisor has the option to implement a special local order which additionally prohibits the mere possession of a firearm within that Wilderness Area. Although this prohibition is not common, you should contact the Forest Supervisor's office to find out whether such a restriction has been imposed.

We encourage you to use designated shooting areas or ranges. However, if you choose to shoot in an undesignated area, please ensure that your shooting does not damage any facilities or natural resources, disrupt other uses, or endanger public safety, and ensure you remove any targets, wads, shells, brass and other refuse with you when you leave. Be sure your shooting target area is free of rocks, as wildfires have resulting from sparks from ricochets. Be responsible for your action and follow outdoor ethics, in other words always, Leave No Trace and Tread Lightly! on federal lands.

It is also a good idea regardless, just to contact the local Forest Service District or Forest Offices in advance of your visit to ask the same question, as they are more aware of local ranges and other opportunities, local orders or restrictions, issues and special conditions that may affect you.

Enjoy your visit to our National Forests.

Jamie Schwartz, Shooting Sports Liaison, USDA Forest Service

Liberty1
02-16-2009, 8:43 PM
Gotcha, dang, this is complicated

Cliff notes are over here (http://californiaopencarry.org) :thumbsup: