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View Full Version : Can you put a pistol grip on a SKS in California?


Redchevyman
02-15-2009, 10:18 AM
I would like to know if there are any California or Federal laws that would prohibit someone from adding a stock with a 6 position butt stock and a pistol grip to a SKS with the factory 10rd fixed magazine.
http://rcmgunparts.com/product_images/sks_intrafuse-sm.jpg
I just added these stocks to my web site and I have received a lot of questions about Federal 922r compliance and California AW laws.

savageevo
02-15-2009, 10:45 AM
As long it is 922r compliant, Has a fixed 10rd mag, and when collapesd the oal has to be over 30". Unless you disable the gas system so it is not operational and convert it to a single shot and oal can be had for 27". But who wants to do that.:confused:

Redchevyman
02-15-2009, 1:36 PM
Are fixed magazine centerfire rifles considered non sporting with a collapsible stock and pistol grip?

motorhead
02-15-2009, 3:08 PM
sporting does not matter. 922(r) comes into play due to the change in the weapons original configuration. the p/g mandates a fixed mag and the 30" oal already applied.

-hanko
02-15-2009, 3:26 PM
I would like to know if there are any California or Federal laws that would prohibit someone from adding a stock with a 6 position butt stock and a pistol grip to a SKS with the factory 10rd fixed magazine.
http://rcmgunparts.com/product_images/sks_intrafuse-sm.jpg

Other than the laws of common sense and good taste, probably not.:D

-hanko

BroncoBob
02-15-2009, 3:39 PM
Here's my 922r compliant SKS

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-036F-1.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-023F-2.jpg

Rascal
02-15-2009, 5:32 PM
I am sorry Bronco Bob, but your rifle IS NOT COMPLIANT WITH 922R.
Because your rifle IS U.S.A. Made IT IS NOT SUBJECT TO 922R
If you had a foreign made rifle, you would not be able to have "non-sporting" features, like the pistol grip or the collapsible stock on it.
Because your rifle has 10 or less foreign made parts from the FED list, it is considered a U.S.A. made rifle and therefore NOT subject to 922r regulations.

A foreign made rifle that would be IN COMPLIANCE WITH 922r would not have a pistol grip, high capacity detachable magazine, night sites, bayonet lug, collapsible stock, or flash hider.

There is a difference.




Here's my 922r compliant SKS

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-036F-1.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-023F-2.jpg

FS00008
02-15-2009, 5:36 PM
Wait... I know of NO SKS rifles that were and/or are made in the United States of America. How the heck could that SKS be "Made in the USA"?

B.D.Dubloon
02-15-2009, 5:37 PM
How many parts do you have to change to US made in an sks to allow you to put on the t6 stock? I think the question has been answered on his thread but I got confused reading the posts.

Thanks,
BDD

ss385
02-15-2009, 6:17 PM
Thought 922r went away with clinton fiascoe in 2004.!

Blue
02-15-2009, 6:19 PM
Thought 922r went away with clinton fiascoe in 2004.!

Nope.

ss385
02-15-2009, 6:22 PM
I can stamp MADE in the USA on all my parts.
I think it has to be at least 1/16 deep.to satisfy the feds.

BroncoBob
02-15-2009, 6:43 PM
I am sorry Bronco Bob, but your rifle IS NOT COMPLIANT WITH 922R.
Because your rifle IS U.S.A. Made IT IS NOT SUBJECT TO 922R
If you had a foreign made rifle, you would not be able to have "non-sporting" features, like the pistol grip or the collapsible stock on it.
Because your rifle has 10 or less foreign made parts from the FED list, it is considered a U.S.A. made rifle and therefore NOT subject to 922r regulations.

A foreign made rifle that would be IN COMPLIANCE WITH 922r would not have a pistol grip, high capacity detachable magazine, night sites, bayonet lug, collapsible stock, or flash hider.

There is a difference.

My rifle was made in China, not USA. I have complied with the swap out of 7 foriegn made parts with USA made parts. The trigger group was USA made.
It is apparent that you're not up with 922r compliance as you can add a Tapco Fusion stock with pistol grip. You just can't count the pistol grip as part of the 922r compliance. I suggest you visit the following link and read up on 922r compliance for SKS's.
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=50561.0

BroncoBob
02-15-2009, 6:45 PM
I can stamp MADE in the USA on all my parts.
I think it has to be at least 1/16 deep.to satisfy the feds.

Unless you have documents backing that up I would strongly suggest that you not do that.

Rascal
02-15-2009, 7:07 PM
Wait... I know of NO SKS rifles that were and/or are made in the United States of America. How the heck could that SKS be "Made in the USA"?


I'm glad you asked that question.
Lets look at the law first.


The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Section 922(r), states the following:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to

(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof or

(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the... [U.S. Attorney General]

Also, 27 C.F.R. Section 478.39 states

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof or (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of [478.151(formerly 178.151)]; or (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts [tabulated below] are.



(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or castings.
(2) Barrels.
(3) Barrel extensions.
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions).
(5) Muzzle attachments.
(6) Bolts.
(7) Bolt carriers.
(8) Operating rods.
(9) Gas pistons.
(10) Trigger housings.
(11) Triggers.
(12) Hammers.
(13) Sears.
(14) Disconnectors.
(15) Buttstocks.
(16) Pistol grips.
(17) Forearms, handguards.
(18) Magazine bodies.
(19) Followers.
(20) Floor plates.



Therefore, it is a violation of 18 U.S.C. 922(r) to assemble such a rifle or shotgun from more than 10 of the imported parts specified in 27 CFR 478.39. However, assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles or shotguns using 10 or fewer of these imported parts is not prohibited under this section.



The gun control act of 1968 tells us that we cannot import or manufacture any foreign made weapon which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
The GCA also tells us what it considers a foreign made weapon, and what parts it considers important. Any weapon that contains more than ten of the parts on The list of 20 parts that the FEDs list is considered a foreign made weapon. If the weapon has 10 or less foreign made parts. [b] it is not considered a foreign made weapon, but a weapon made in the U.S.A.
Weapons made in the U.S.A. are on subject to 922r.
that is why people in the free states can have AR15 type rifles with all kinds of "non-sporting things on them.
If you built a AR type clone with foreign made parts, it would have to be built like a Kaili compliant weapon, with no pistol grip, no folding stock/ telescoping stock, no flash hider etc. ect... or it would not be in compliance with 922r.

Now from the list, there are actually only 14 parts on an SKS so we only need to replace 4 parts in order for it to be considered a weapon made in the U.S.A.
There is another way to get around this, like the weapon had to be imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, and you can prove it.


Does this make sense now?

Rascal
02-15-2009, 7:17 PM
My rifle was made in China, not USA. I have complied with the swap out of 7 foriegn made parts with USA made parts. The trigger group was USA made.
It is apparent that you're not up with 922r compliance as you can add a Tapco Fusion stock with pistol grip. You just can't count the pistol grip as part of the 922r compliance. I suggest you visit the following link and read up on 922r compliance for SKS's.
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=50561.0


I'm sorry but you are wrong. Please reread the Gun Control act of 1986.
It specifically states what is considered a foreign made weapon, and 10 or less of the specified parts IS NOT CONSIDERED FOREIGN MADE.
922R ONLY deals with foreign made weapons being imported into or manufactured from foreign made parts in the U.S..
Building a weapon with 10 or less parts from the list is not considered a foreign made weapon.

Rascal
02-15-2009, 7:49 PM
The Gun Control Act of 1986 was an attempt to stop people from importing military style weapons in parts to later assemble into whole weapons. It had already stopped the sale of foreign military style weapons by using the "non-sporting" features or "not readily adaptable to sporting purposes".

Complying to 922r is NOT adding U.S. parts to your SKS.
Complying to 922r is taking off all "non-sporting" features from your foreign made weapon. This means NO pistol grip, night sites, bayonet lug, folding or telescoping stocks, high capacity magazine, or grenade launchers.

bplvr
02-15-2009, 8:10 PM
Rascal ...I see your point .The law reads 'no more than 10 '
If the gun in question has only 14 0f the 20 named ......
To prove the point ,suppose the gun in question had only 8 of the 20 parts
on the list in it's original configuration.It would be impossible to replace 10 with USA parts .
I wonder what "the powers that be" on CGN would say about this observation.
:helpsmilie:

joemama
02-15-2009, 8:11 PM
so for a chinese sks that I bought in 05, I dont have to make 922r compliant? was it already 922r compliant when I bought it? I was under the impression that I would have to replace 10 out of 20 parts on my rifle with us made parts to put my pistol grip/collapsible stock on it. I think I need a bit more clarification on 922r and california law as well.

Rascal
02-15-2009, 8:31 PM
Rascal ...I see your point .The law reads 'no more than 10 '
If the gun in question has only 14 0f the 20 named ......
To prove the point ,suppose the gun in question had only 8 of the 20 parts
on the list in it's original configuration.It would be impossible to replace 10 with USA parts .
I wonder what "the powers that be" on CGN would say about this observation.
:helpsmilie:

You don't have to worry about how many U.S. made parts you have unless you want to put "non-sporting" features on you 8 piece gun.
If there are NO "non-sporting" features on your foreign made weapon, then it IS compliant with 922r.

Rascal
02-15-2009, 8:44 PM
so for a chinese sks that I bought in 05, I dont have to make 922r compliant? was it already 922r compliant when I bought it? I was under the impression that I would have to replace 10 out of 20 parts on my rifle with us made parts to put my pistol grip/collapsible stock on it. I think I need a bit more clarification on 922r and California law as well.

Joe, If your Chinese SKS doesn't have a pistol grip, bayonet, and bayonet lug, or any other "non-sporting" feature, then it is in compliance with 922r.

If you bought your Chinese SKS before November 30, 1990, then it is grandfathered in and you can keep the bayonet and bayonet lug.

BroncoBob
02-15-2009, 8:59 PM
I suggest a look at the following web link that is dedicated to SKS's. According to ATF a Chinese SKS has only 14 parts. ATF is saying that a Chinese SKS only has 14 parts, instead of the 17 parts we imagined. Note that the final list does not include a muzzle attachment, a second disconnector or an operating rod.

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=27678.0

joemama
02-15-2009, 9:11 PM
http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr54/joemamaslayer/sks.jpg

Does that count as the bayonet lug or is the lug the bolt that holds the bayonet in? Would that have to be ground off in order to put the pistol grip/collapsible stock on?

BroncoBob
02-15-2009, 9:28 PM
leave it

Rascal
02-15-2009, 9:40 PM
Joe, that is the bayonet lug. You should take it off, but just because you took it off, doesn't mean you can add the pistol grip or collapsible stock. Remember a foreign made weapon can not have non-sporting features and the pistol grip and collapsible stock ARE non-sporting features. You would have to make your Chinese made rifle into a U.S.A. made rifle by having 10 or less foreign made parts from the list of parts that the FEDs made.


http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr54/joemamaslayer/sks.jpg

Does that count as the bayonet lug or is the lug the bolt that holds the bayonet in? Would that have to be ground off in order to put the pistol grip/collapsible stock on?

joemama
02-15-2009, 9:47 PM
well I'm glad I came upon this thread lol. I have been planning on doing the whole 10/20 usa parts deal on this rifle but I didnt know I actually had to grind that off. From what I was told, that is supposed to help hold the cleaning rod in the rifle when it has a bayonet. I have since removed the cleaning rod because its a pain to keep shoving in the rifle when you shoot. I think I'll find a junkier rifle to grind the lug off of, I dont really want to do that to this rifle.

Rascal
02-15-2009, 10:35 PM
If you do the 10 or less foreign parts, then you won't have to grind the bayonet lug off, because your Chinese made SKS would now become a U.S.A. made rifle, according to FED law and no longer be subject to 922r interpretation. ;)

Philthy
02-16-2009, 1:09 AM
Joe, that is the bayonet lug. You should take it off, but just because you took it off, doesn't mean you can add the pistol grip or collapsible stock. Remember a foreign made weapon can not have non-sporting features and the pistol grip and collapsible stock ARE non-sporting features. You would have to make your Chinese made rifle into a U.S.A. made rifle by having 10 or less foreign made parts from the list of parts that the FEDs made.

Use this checklist to make sure you are 922r compliant:
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSKSVerifyCompliance

I think the bayonet lug was in the 1994 AWB, and now that it expired, bayonet lugs are legal, both under CA and Fed law.

Rascal
02-16-2009, 2:37 PM
Philthy,
The bayonet lug has nothing to do with the now dead AW law. The bayonet lug has to do with what the FEDs call "non-sporting" features. The following is what the FEDs determined to be non-sporting features of military style weapons the would be non importable.

1. Ability to accept a large capacity magazine

2. Folding/telescoping stocks

3. Separate pistol grips

4. Ability to accept a bayonet (bayonet mount)

5. Flash suppressors

6. Bipods

7. Grenade launchers

8. Night sights


You must remember that what they were trying to do is prevent the importation of military style weapons, and to prevent the importation of kits to be imported into the U.S. and assembled in the U.S. from foreign made parts.


Compliance to 922r means that you don't have any of the above type of parts on your foreign made weapon.


The ten or less foreign made parts IS NOT A COMPLIANCE ISSUE, because 922r IS ONLY FOR FOREIGN MADE WEAPONS, and the FEDs determined that if your rifle had 10 or less foreign made parts from the list that they made, YOUR RIFLE WAS NOT A FOREIGN MADE WEAPON, AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO 922R REGULATIONS.