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View Full Version : Naive Questions - Government Tracking


Phil3
02-14-2009, 6:30 PM
I am increasingly nervous about California (or the Feds), eventually, trying to somehow, confiscate and/or kill ownership through a variety of creative measures. Just what does California know about gun sales through the DROS? From what I have to fill out, it seems they know everything except my brand of shoelaces. If that is the case, it seems like it would be very easy for the state to come knocking at my door, expecting to find specific firearms.

If I transfer a handgun or rifle to someone else outside California, what responsibilities do I have to California? I wonder if other more gun friendly states keep records on what their citizens own?

On a related note, someone asked me , "what are you worried about, cars are registered too". My answer was the purposes of registering vehicles is entirely different than registering guns, and that makes me uneasy.

- Phil

CCWFacts
02-14-2009, 6:40 PM
I am increasingly nervous about California (or the Feds), eventually, trying to somehow, confiscate and/or kill ownership through a variety of creative measures. Just what does California know about gun sales through the DROS?

"The government" knows just about everything about your gun purchases.

The obvious stuff: any handgun you buy in CA is registered with the CA-DoJ and is in an instantly-searchable DB. You can call them up and ask them to send you a gun report that will list all the guns they have registered to you. Normally this would include all the handguns you've purchased in the last 15 (?) years, plus an reg'd AWs, plus any voluntary registrations (not many people do this).

Given that most people who are active in the gun culture in CA are likely to have bought a handgun in the last 15 years, they can pretty easily (and instantly) generate a list of probably 95% of the legal gun owners in this state.

Ok, so that's just handgun / AW registrations. I think that covers 95% of us, but there's more going on too.

On the Federal level, they are not allowed to keep NICS records. However... is it just perhaps possible that there are some logs somewhere? I have no proof, I know it's not allowed, but I do work in the computer biz and I know that "lots of stuff gets logged" on any kind of server.

And beyond that, all your credit card transactions are logged in detail, and today various federal agencies do have powers (to what extent I do not know) to search through CC transactions. If you bought something at Brownell's it's easy to guess, you're a gun owner.

Also, the Patriot Act allows them to request all kinds of information via National Security Letters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter), which are administrative subpoenas, and which are secret. They could send a NSL to the NRA, or Brownell's, or CalGuns, or your ISP, or whatever. It's hard to fight these NSLs in court and in fact the recipient isn't even allowed to disclose the fact that he's under it. How often are they used? I have no idea; it's all secret.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/EFF-IA_National_Security_Letter_1.PNG/250px-EFF-IA_National_Security_Letter_1.PNG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EFF-IA_National_Security_Letter_1.PNG)

We, as a country, have just about renounced our personal privacy (financial and otherwise) in the name of first the War on Drugs and now the War on Terror. Has it been all worth it? We've lost a lot. Has it made us safer? The clear answer of our leaders is, "yes it has", and so that's where we are today.

CSACANNONEER
02-14-2009, 6:44 PM
If you have ANY shoelaces, they better be registered as machine guns. If not, you could face jail time!


















Yea, I know ATF changed their mind and decide shoelaces are no longer machine guns but, DOJ has not ruled on it and neither have the 58 DAs in Ca.

Librarian
02-14-2009, 8:21 PM
Yea, I know ATF changed their mind and decide shoelaces are no longer machine guns but, DOJ has not ruled on it and neither have the 58 DAs in Ca.
Which is good, because if all 58 did think about it, we'd have about 75 different opinions.

rayra
02-14-2009, 9:55 PM
The State knew and recorded everything they need to know, LONG before cranks got wound up about the Patriot Act.
All you can do is think about it and decide now what you are and are not willing to do when the day comes, then act in accordance with that plan in the present.
And when the day comes, I for one will not be sitting around waiting for them to come to my door. I'll be busy.

zinfull
02-15-2009, 9:22 AM
Better get rid of your shoelaces. They can be used to bum fire which would be against the law,

Jerry

TheBundo
02-15-2009, 12:17 PM
Your shoelaces get registered if you go through an airport. That's why I always buy new ones after I fly anywhere - with CASH

vrand
02-15-2009, 1:01 PM
Which is good, because if all 58 did think about it, we'd have about 75 different opinions.

at least :43:

Fate
02-15-2009, 1:05 PM
They can be used to bum fire...Bum fire. LOL

bubbapug1
02-15-2009, 5:37 PM
If you guys would all just sit at home and watch TV, eat too much and get fat, spend too much so you have to work all the time and do safe hobbies like golf and tennis I wouldn't have to listen to you ***** about the goverment getting in the way of your shooting and blowing stuff up..so they could take your money easily to shoot people and blow people up and financially bail out people who pay themselves $10,000,000.00 for bankrupting their public FDIC insured companies...are you all out of your minds or can't you see how simple life would be if you just stopped asking for your stupid freedoms and earnings?