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View Full Version : Discount Gun Mart - Again


Corbin Dallas
02-14-2009, 2:25 PM
Many of you remember this thread... and I'm not going to bring it back from the dead. The owner made good for the OP and that's good enough.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=131661&highlight=Discount+Gun+Mart


However, after a visit today to see about a new purchase, I was so disgusted at the FUD spewed by the salesperson, I left.

I will only say to the owner of DGM, if you want to sell only HIGH dollar weapons such as Les Baer's that's your business. But tell your sales people not to discriminate other brands based on their personal beliefs.

Mistake #1 - 3" groups at 50 yards do not command $2500 price tags. My Glock 27 can do that.

EDIT and addendum to #1 - 1.5" Group guarantee at 50 yards DOES command a $2500 price tag.

Mistake #2 - When a customer asks you the sales person if the weapon is made in brazil and you answer "NO", you as a sales person should A) Take your head out of your *** because the slide says "MADE IN BRAZIL" or B) Say "You know Mr. Customer, I really don't know that answer"

Last mistake - The tolerances in the "SLIDE" do "NOT" dictate accuracy in a 1911.

If you want to educate the customer, that's great. The least your sales people could do is know the bare minimum. It was clear to me your potential customer knew more than your sales man, yet your sales man was insistant that a Les Baer was the most superior 1911 and the Kimber was the least.

Highly funny that no mention was made regarding the Para's or RIA's in the case either.


Here's a free lesson to the DGM sales man.

When a customer asks for a specific weapon, or gives you a specific price range, give them the weapon they ask for. Spewing FUD within earshot of other potential customers can cause lost sales.

Just my .02

Black Majik
02-14-2009, 2:33 PM
Mistake #1 - 3" groups at 50 yards do not command $2500 price tags. My Glock 27 can do that.

Can I buy your G27 that can do 3" @ 50 yards?

Sorry, but even in a ransom rest I don't believe that. Just using a Les Baer 1911 as an example, it takes a Kart barrel and handfit parts to achieve 3" @ 50 yards on their most basic model.

Max-the-Silent
02-14-2009, 2:48 PM
"Mistake #1 - 3" groups at 50 yards do not command $2500 price tags. My Glock 27 can do that."

This, I have to see.

Corbin Dallas
02-14-2009, 3:26 PM
Here's 25 from freehand.

BTW, that's a 4x6 card and I was NOT taking my time.

If I could comfortably bench rest it I'd be willing to place money I can put 5 in 3" at 50.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11460&d=1217255756

gunboat
02-14-2009, 3:30 PM
As in most sales today - YOU are your own best expert -

AlexBreya
02-14-2009, 3:34 PM
Here's 25 from freehand.

BTW, that's a 4x6 card and I was NOT taking my time.

If I could comfortably bench rest it I'd be willing to place money I can put 5 in 3" at 50.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11460&d=1217255756

This photo doesn't really show anything about accuracy at 50 yards. with my kimber i could get a .05 inch group at .5 yards, that doesn't mean i could get a 3 inch group at 50 yards just because i try harder.

PS, where is the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt in their work? never been there myself, but what is FUD about saying a pistol isn't made where it actually is? are they trying to make you scared of OLL or something? it sure doesn't sound like it.

DVLDOC
02-14-2009, 3:38 PM
I will only say to the owner of DGM, if you want to sell only HIGH dollar weapons such as Les Baer's that's your business. But tell your sales people not to discriminate other brands based on their personal beliefs.



+1

I had the same experience at DGM last year.

Corbin Dallas
02-14-2009, 3:59 PM
This photo doesn't really show anything about accuracy at 50 yards. with my kimber i could get a .05 inch group at .5 yards, that doesn't mean i could get a 3 inch group at 50 yards just because i try harder.

PS, where is the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt in their work? never been there myself, but what is FUD about saying a pistol isn't made where it actually is? are they trying to make you scared of OLL or something? it sure doesn't sound like it.

The FUD was saying the Springfield or Kimber would not do 3" groups at 50 yards.

As far as groups, please do show me your pistol 25 yard group from free hand, I'd love to see the abilities of those who doubt.

Fuzzy5
02-14-2009, 4:28 PM
This photo doesn't really show anything about accuracy at 50 yards. with my kimber i could get a .05 inch group at .5 yards, that doesn't mean i could get a 3 inch group at 50 yards just because i try harder.

Actually, if that is a 4x6 card and it was really shot offhand at 25 yards, then I'd have to agree that 3" groups at 50 from a rest would definitely be possible.

For a G27, that's some darn good shooting. Looks like that group size is just over 2 inches or so. The one's I've shot were accurate, but the short sight radius makes it hard to group like that.

eaglemike
02-14-2009, 5:16 PM
I've personally witnessed 4" groups from a G19 shot offhand in twilight at 50 yards. The guy was even shooting lead bullets (yeah, I know, impossible in a Glock). They were 125 grain tc's, Bear Creek. IIRC they were loaded with Win Super Field. The shooter in this case was not me, but I used to shoot with him up to three times a week.

It's mostly about the shooter....... :D The gun can help.

Down with FUD!

all the best,
Mike

brassburnz
02-14-2009, 5:46 PM
The "long line" as bullseye shooters call it is not just "twice as far" as the "short line." What shoots well at 25 yards may or may not shoot well at 50 yards. Also, experienced bullseye shooters know just because you can shoot 1 inch groups at 25 yards doesn't mean you will shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards. If this was true, there would be a lot more "Master" class bullseye shooters.

And just because a certain gun has the ability to shoot "X" size groups at 50 yards from a Ransom rest doesn't mean you can duplicate it yourself. It just means that's the potential mechanical accuracy of that gun with that particular load. Even the person operating the Ransom Rest can affect the size of the groups. Sounds wierd, but I've seen it happen. Same gun, same ammo, same set-up, different operator and the groups change.

A 10-shot, 3 inch group at 50 yards is a perfect score of 100 on the NRA Slow Fire Pistol Target (provided they are centered on the target). You would have to shoot that from the standing position, one-handed.

My purpose built, Colt 1911 bullseye pistol with handloads can do it from a benchrest, when everything is perfect. So can my Colt/Marvell .22 conversion. It came from the factory with a 0.600 inch 50 yard test target.

I haven't tried it yet, but I don't think my Glock 34 has the inherrent accuracy to shoot a 3 inch 5-shot group at 50 yards.

ohsmily
02-14-2009, 5:49 PM
What is your deal dude??? Where is the FUD? Nothing that you posted below is cause for a flame thread against a particular shop. Sorry if every salesperson in the world isn't as expert as you about every gun. Get over it. Only extremely bad customer service or egregious misstatements of (or violations of) law are worthy of posting flame threads about gun stores in my opinion.

Oh, and I call BS that your stock Glock can consistently do a 3" group at 50 yards. Some high end 1911s ship with a 25 yard 1.5" test target; I haven't seen 50. Your 4 shot group at 25 yards (if that's what it was) means nothing. From a rest, show me a stock glock doing 3" groups at 50 yards each and every time. Also, show me a high end 1911 maker who guarantees 1.5" at 50 yards....maybe there are some....show me....
Many of you remember this thread... and I'm not going to bring it back from the dead. The owner made good for the OP and that's good enough.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=131661&highlight=Discount+Gun+Mart


However, after a visit today to see about a new purchase, I was so disgusted at the FUD spewed by the salesperson, I left.

I will only say to the owner of DGM, if you want to sell only HIGH dollar weapons such as Les Baer's that's your business. But tell your sales people not to discriminate other brands based on their personal beliefs.

Mistake #1 - 3" groups at 50 yards do not command $2500 price tags. My Glock 27 can do that.

EDIT and addendum to #1 - 1.5" Group guarantee at 50 yards DOES command a $2500 price tag.

Mistake #2 - When a customer asks you the sales person if the weapon is made in brazil and you answer "NO", you as a sales person should A) Take your head out of your *** because the slide says "MADE IN BRAZIL" or B) Say "You know Mr. Customer, I really don't know that answer"

Last mistake - The tolerances in the "SLIDE" do "NOT" dictate accuracy in a 1911.

If you want to educate the customer, that's great. The least your sales people could do is know the bare minimum. It was clear to me your potential customer knew more than your sales man, yet your sales man was insistant that a Les Baer was the most superior 1911 and the Kimber was the least.

Highly funny that no mention was made regarding the Para's or RIA's in the case either.


Here's a free lesson to the DGM sales man.

When a customer asks for a specific weapon, or gives you a specific price range, give them the weapon they ask for. Spewing FUD within earshot of other potential customers can cause lost sales.

Just my .02

Black Majik
02-14-2009, 6:02 PM
The FUD was saying the Springfield or Kimber would not do 3" groups at 50 yards.

As far as groups, please do show me your pistol 25 yard group from free hand, I'd love to see the abilities of those who doubt.

If Springfield or Kimber 1911s have the ability to shoot 3" at 50 yards, wouldn't they rate them at 50 yards instead of 25?

Springfield and Kimber both rate their flagship pistols at 25 yards (1.5" for the PRO, 1" for the Supermatch). Whether they'll do 3" @ 50 yards is probably possible, but if they rate their top pistols at 25 yards, how are you so sure it'll do 3" at 50?

Hunt n Fish
02-14-2009, 7:39 PM
Why are you knuckle heads shooting your handguns at 50 yards in the first place?

Go buy a long gun. (not at discount gun mart) :thumbsup:

AlexBreya
02-14-2009, 7:47 PM
The FUD was saying the Springfield or Kimber would not do 3" groups at 50 yards.

As far as groups, please do show me your pistol 25 yard group from free hand, I'd love to see the abilities of those who doubt.

I'm not saying i could shoot 3 inch groups at 25 yards. i know for a fact that i couldn't shoot even a 4 inch group with a bench rest with my kimber. i would agree with the salesman that the Kimber couldn't get those kind of groups. i'm just saying that a group at one distance doesn't really show for another distance. you should try it a 50 yards, and see, cause i have enough trouble getting 2 inch groups without a scope with a AR15 at 50 yards.

bplvr
02-14-2009, 8:02 PM
This photo doesn't really show anything about accuracy at 50 yards. with my kimber i could get a .05 inch group at .5 yards, that doesn't mean i could get a 3 inch group at 50 yards just because i try harder.

PS, where is the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt in their work? never been there myself, but what is FUD about saying a pistol isn't made where it actually is? are they trying to make you scared of OLL or something? it sure doesn't sound like it.

Corbin, my friend maybe you should put this target on your front door.;)

Corbin Dallas
02-14-2009, 8:21 PM
Corbin, my friend maybe you should put this target on your front door.;)

Nah, then the gang-bangers would know who could actually fight back.


As far as FUD, let me clear it up for all you again.


Telling a customer to buy a Les Baer over a Springfield or Kimber because it can do 3" groups at 50 yards is FUD. Total BS and an utterly LAME comment.

Does that clear things up for you?


A better comment to a customer would be along the lines of...

"Well sir, the Springfield TRP is $1700, but for $100 more you can get a Les Baer which has a fitted barrel and bushing resulting in increased accuracy. Also, notice the feel of the trigger on the Les Baer over the Springfield. This Sir, in my opinion, is why the Les Baer is a more accurate and better built pistol over the springfield"

That to me is "Salesmanship", not spewing FUD about how it's better because it can do 3" groups at 50 yards...