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View Full Version : Utah to change rules for CCW


mblat
02-13-2009, 10:08 AM
Did a quick search - didn't find this discussed before:

Utah gun rights advocates team with gun-control fans - Salt Lake Tribune

Anybody knows what is ACTUALLY proposed? Revocation of outstanding CCWs or revocation of instructors permits to teach?

sorensen440
02-13-2009, 10:09 AM
can you link to where you got this info ?

n2k
02-13-2009, 10:15 AM
http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_11667010

johnny_22
02-13-2009, 10:16 AM
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11667010


" Utah has about 1,000 instructors, and two-thirds of them aren't Utahns, said Lt. Doug Anderson, program manager at the Bureau of Criminal Identification, which oversees the permit. He estimates complaints at between 20 and 30, mostly about out-of-state instructors.

Brian Judy, Utah state liaison for the National Rifle Association, said Utah needs more concrete evidence that states want to stop recognizing its permit before taking such a drastic step. Instead he'd like to see licenses revoked on a case-by-case basis.

However, Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council and of BCI's weapons review board, says he already has legislators from around the country saying they are ready to stop recognizing Utah's permit because of concerns with some instructors. "

AC Gould
02-13-2009, 10:17 AM
Sounds like the focus is on instructors who are light in the teaching part of the process.

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_11667010

H2H
02-13-2009, 10:18 AM
sucks but deals mostly with UT CCW instructors not CCW holders seems like.
shameless plug :I recommend Matt P for UT CCW classes. He is a great instructor.

n2k
02-13-2009, 10:21 AM
shameless plug :I recommend Matt P for UT CCW classes. He is a great instructor.

The March class date can't get here fast enough.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=151456

AaronHorrocks
02-13-2009, 10:27 AM
It's a step in the wrong direction. First they'll get rid of non-resident instructors, then non-resident permits.

Colorado no longer allows non-residents to CCW. How F'ed up is that? The state that I travel to on vacation, and was confronted for money in a bad area - the very reason I went for a Utah CCW... and now that state won't allow me to defend myself, my girl, or my property.

626Tony
02-13-2009, 10:54 AM
Oh well always Florida:mad:

Glock22Fan
02-13-2009, 10:58 AM
Oh well always Florida:mad:

Florida's training requirements are looser than Utah's. If some states are threatening Utah's permits, can Florida's be far behind?

Fate
02-13-2009, 11:37 AM
More likely just grandstanding by other congressmen to appear concerned. They're likely just bluffing and planning their next vacation to the Caymans.

Casual Observer
02-13-2009, 11:39 AM
It's a step in the wrong direction. First they'll get rid of non-resident instructors, then non-resident permits.

Colorado no longer allows non-residents to CCW. How F'ed up is that? The state that I travel to on vacation, and was confronted for money in a bad area - the very reason I went for a Utah CCW... and now that state won't allow me to defend myself, my girl, or my property.

You can't use a non-resident permit IIRC.

e.g. - a UT non-resident permit is a no-go. A UT resident permit is good-to-go.

Doheny
02-13-2009, 11:50 AM
Florida's training requirements are looser than Utah's...

Don't you actually have to shoot for FL? I don't think you have to for UT.

mblat
02-13-2009, 12:05 PM
Don't you actually have to shoot for FL? I don't think you have to for UT.

You don't need to shoot for Utah.... however that it isn't what he means. After all who cares about shooting? I think that most of the people who want CCW would pass any reasonable shooting requirements any time day or night on five minutes notice.

here is Nevada on:
http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/concealdfirearmsclasses.html

I am not a great shot..... but slow fire on B27 target and you need only 70%? I think I can do it anytime with any gun that I have.

Glock22Fan
02-13-2009, 12:17 PM
Don't you actually have to shoot for FL? I don't think you have to for UT.

True, if you are starting from scratch, but Florida will accept almost any piece of paper that shows that you have had some firearms training, such as NRA basic course, services training etc. etc.

Therefore a lot of people are already qualified without having to do anything.

Utah insists on training that includes a discussion on Utah's carry laws. Makes sense to me but does mean that you have to do a specific course with a certified trainer.

grammaton76
02-13-2009, 12:30 PM
Personally, I've always thought it funny that they'd allow someone who didn't reside in Utah or at least one of the neighboring states, be an instructor.

Although - let me get this straight... Utah will issue non-resident CCW's to anyone, but you can't use them in Utah unless you're a resident? *boggle*

ke6guj
02-13-2009, 12:34 PM
Although - let me get this straight... Utah will issue non-resident CCW's to anyone, but you can't use them in Utah unless you're a resident? *boggle*If you are referring to Casual Observer's post, he is talking about CO only accepting UT resident pemits, not the non-resident permits. I'm almost positive that your UT non-resident permit is valid in UT.

sorensen440
02-13-2009, 12:37 PM
I'm almost positive that your UT non-resident permit is valid in UT.
That is correct

1BigPea
02-13-2009, 12:38 PM
If you are referring to Casual Observer's post, he is talking about CO only accepting UT resident pemits, not the non-resident permits. I'm almost positive that your UT non-resident permit is valid in UT.

That is correct, Utah's non-resident CCW is good in Utah and 29 or 30 other states, just not in CO.

sorensen440
02-13-2009, 12:40 PM
This is why it is important to get ccw in every state that allows it for non residents
I currently have Utah and Arizona and when I get around to it I will mail my florida packet out for that one as well

Glock22Fan
02-13-2009, 12:41 PM
That is correct, Utah's non-resident CCW is good in Utah and 29 or 30 other states, just not in CO.

Neither is it recognized in Fl, which is (in my mind) the main reason why you might want a Fl permit instead of Ut

vrand
02-13-2009, 12:42 PM
It's a step in the wrong direction. First they'll get rid of non-resident instructors, then non-resident permits.

Colorado no longer allows non-residents to CCW. How F'ed up is that? The state that I travel to on vacation, and was confronted for money in a bad area - the very reason I went for a Utah CCW... and now that state won't allow me to defend myself, my girl, or my property.

yep

The gun grabbers, socialist, communist agenda

1BigPea
02-13-2009, 12:50 PM
This is why it is important to get ccw in every state that allows it for non residents
I currently have Utah and Arizona and when I get around to it I will mail my florida packet out for that one as well

I didn't know AZ did Non-Resident, I thought FL and UT were the only States?

I did my Utah CCW recently and they just charged my card...so 60 long days I wait.

1BigPea
02-13-2009, 12:52 PM
Neither is it recognized in Fl, which is (in my mind) the main reason why you might want a Fl permit instead of Ut

I'm going to send out my FL one too when I get around to it. Definitely doesnt hurt to have both. ;)

n2k
02-13-2009, 12:55 PM
The Caveat for AZ

** All training for an AZ CCW permit MUST be conducted within the borders of the state of Arizona.

http://ccw.azdps.gov/procedures/obtainPermit.asp

sorensen440
02-13-2009, 1:03 PM
The Caveat for AZ

** All training for an AZ CCW permit MUST be conducted within the borders of the state of Arizona.

http://ccw.azdps.gov/procedures/obtainPermit.asp
Yeah I took mine when visiting AZ
class was only one day and was extremely informative on AZ law

(Something that the MattP class was lacking)

grammaton76
02-13-2009, 1:23 PM
Personally, I've never bothered with an out-of-state permit because the only times I go out of state are to visit family. If I ever actually left CA on any regular basis, I'd do it for sure though.

Other than general principle, can anyone think of a good reason this should not be so?

n2k
02-13-2009, 1:26 PM
Personally, I've never bothered with an out-of-state permit because the only times I go out of state are to visit family.

Things can happen while visiting family :eek:

mblat
02-13-2009, 1:26 PM
Personally, I've never bothered with an out-of-state permit because the only times I go out of state are to visit family. If I ever actually left CA on any regular basis, I'd do it for sure though.

Other than general principle, can anyone think of a good reason this should not be so?

No I think you have he point. In general traveling with firearms is headache, so if you travel occasionally or like in your case you are visiting people who can actually hold firearm for you ( in case of disaster ) I don't see the point.

I got mine because I travel to Nevada very often on business.... So it is kind of handy and also provides some training for carry.

grammaton76
02-13-2009, 1:36 PM
Things can happen while visiting family :eek:

True, except the family I visit is anti-gun (wouldn't let me bring a gun into their house I'm sure), and I always fly - and am never there for more than a day or two.

1BigPea
02-13-2009, 1:50 PM
Yeah I took mine when visiting AZ
class was only one day and was extremely informative on AZ law

(Something that the MattP class was lacking)


What does Reprocity "Written Agreement with Arizona" mean?

http://ccw.azdps.gov/reciprocity/documents/Reciprocal_Agreements_Current.pdf

Looks like I'm going to be getting my AZ CCW too, my home State is covered but not with Utah's.

sorensen440
02-13-2009, 3:46 PM
What does Reprocity "Written Agreement with Arizona" mean?

http://ccw.azdps.gov/reciprocity/documents/Reciprocal_Agreements_Current.pdf

Looks like I'm going to be getting my AZ CCW too, my home State is covered but not with Utah's.
It means that if you have a Utah ccw Arizona will honor it.

pullnshoot25
02-13-2009, 3:59 PM
True, except the family I visit is anti-gun (wouldn't let me bring a gun into their house I'm sure), and I always fly - and am never there for more than a day or two.

The family is anti-gun? That sucks!

One can always OC :)

sorensen440
02-13-2009, 4:01 PM
The family is anti-gun? That sucks!

One can always OC :)
Loaded in many states

dustoff31
02-13-2009, 4:17 PM
This is the second issue with non-resident UT CCWs within a fairly short period of time.

Last time it was something about burning up too many resources or what have you to issue to nan-residents.

It seems pretty clear that UT is getting political heat. I wonder if it's from within UT, as a form of protectionism, or if it's from other states that don't want their citizens to have CCW permits.

MP301
02-13-2009, 5:46 PM
Neither is it recognized in Fl, which is (in my mind) the main reason why you might want a Fl permit instead of Ut

Yeah, but Florida is not honored in Washington state, Utah is..I have family there and will be visiting in May......But if Washington State doesnt make a diffeence, then Florida is better...Its good for 7 years instead of five last I checked.

I have a Nevada, a Utah and my Florida is on its way. Why not collect them all! If I ever find myself in Arizona, il, get one of those as well... What the heck...always interesting to get new takes on things and different views and training.

Oh yeah, my understanding is that you can get a non-resident Oregon permit is you live in a state that borders Oregon - CA,ID,WA,NV. But I think you have to do it in person and im not sure what else it entails.

My recommendation for anyone that wants a non-resident permit(s) is to do what I did. You can get the big 3 knocked out in one shot.

While getting married in Vegas, I took a day and did the one day course at "The Gun Store" on Tropicana. I think they have the classes on a Wednesday and Saturday (I went Saturday). This course covers all of the requirements for all three states and they give you the paperwork for them as well.

You have to show up in person for the Nevada Permit, so I went to the LVMPD fingerprint office the following Monday and they did prints, pictures, etc while I was there.

Most people get either the Utah or Florida, but I got the Nevada too because if there was ever an issue on reciprictiy problems between Nevada and the other two, Id still be covered for the state I go to all the time. Plus, I got my Nevada Permit in 21 days from the Monday I turned it in!!!

The downside with the Nevada, is that you have to qualify with the make model and caliber(s) you want on your permit except revolvers are all the same.

nick
02-13-2009, 5:58 PM
sucks but deals mostly with UT CCW instructors not CCW holders seems like.
shameless plug :I recommend Matt P for UT CCW classes. He is a great instructor.

I second that.

Glock22Fan
02-13-2009, 6:28 PM
Oh yeah, my understanding is that you can get a non-resident Oregon permit is you live in a state that borders Oregon - CA,ID,WA,NV. But I think you have to do it in person and im not sure what else it entails.


Shades of California, this is at the sheriff's discretion, so you have to shop around for a friendly sheriff. There's an Oregon website that deals with this, last time I looked there they said if you find such a sheriff, let them know, because they'd never heard of one.

Glock22Fan
02-13-2009, 6:32 PM
psst... I just got mine and it was a very pleasant experience.

Great! pleased to hear it. Any part of the process that you can share with us?

Glock22Fan
02-13-2009, 6:40 PM
Yeah, but Florida is not honored in Washington state, Utah is..I have family there and will be visiting in May......But if Washington State doesnt make a diffeence, then Florida is better...Its good for 7 years instead of five last I checked.

I have a Nevada, a Utah and my Florida is on its way. Why not collect them all! If I ever find myself in Arizona, il, get one of those as well... What the heck...always interesting to get new takes on things and different views and training.

Oh yeah, my understanding is that you can get a non-resident Oregon permit is you live in a state that borders Oregon - CA,ID,WA,NV. But I think you have to do it in person and im not sure what else it entails.

My recommendation for anyone that wants a non-resident permit(s) is to do what I did. You can get the big 3 knocked out in one shot.

While getting married in Vegas, I took a day and did the one day course at "The Gun Store" on Tropicana. I think they have the classes on a Wednesday and Saturday (I went Saturday). This course covers all of the requirements for all three states and they give you the paperwork for them as well.

You have to show up in person for the Nevada Permit, so I went to the LVMPD fingerprint office the following Monday and they did prints, pictures, etc while I was there.

Most people get either the Utah or Florida, but I got the Nevada too because if there was ever an issue on reciprictiy problems between Nevada and the other two, Id still be covered for the state I go to all the time. Plus, I got my Nevada Permit in 21 days from the Monday I turned it in!!!

The downside with the Nevada, is that you have to qualify with the make model and caliber(s) you want on your permit except revolvers are all the same.

You can, of course, apply for as many as you like and you are right about Washington.

However, in my opinion based on my analysis, if you visit Washington often enough you need Utah. If you visit Florida often enough you need Florida. If you visit both, you need both. If you visit neither, then IMHO Utah has the edge but I would not argue if you chose Florida.

The only reason at present that anyone would want any other state's permits (other than just to collect them for the sake of it) is that there are a couple of states that issue non-resident permits but recognize neither Fl or Ut non-resident permits (but some do recognize Ut or Fl resident permits, such as Co does). If you regularly visit a state that is not covered by Ut/Fl, then make your own determination whether they issue to non-residents.