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.454
02-13-2009, 9:28 AM
Discovered this gem over at Sipsey Street Irregulars (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/02/vanderboegh-classic-what-i-have-learned.html). It is a piece written 10 years ago by Mike Vanderboegh and his words are ringing today even truer than the day they were written.

As an amateur historian of this sad century whose time is almost up, I would like to reflect upon six lessons I have learned in my studies. Folks who wish to live free and prosperous in the next century would do well to understand the failures of the past.

LESSON NO. 1: If a bureaucrat, or a soldier sent by a bureaucrat, comes to knock down your door and take you someplace you do not want to go because of who you are or what you think -- kill him. If you can, kill the politician who sent him. You will likely die anyway, and you will be saving someone else the same fate. For it is a universal truth that the intended victims always far outnumber the tyrant's executioners. Any nation which practices this lesson will quickly run out of executioners and tyrants, or they will run out of it.

LESSON NO. 2: If a bureaucrat, or a soldier sent by a bureaucrat, comes to knock down your door and confiscate your firearms -- kill him. The disarmament of law-abiding citizens is the required precursor to genocide.

Read the rest here (http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-i-have-learned-from-twentieth.html)

SwissFluCase
02-13-2009, 9:56 AM
Sums up the darkest century in Mankind's history right there...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

DDT
02-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Sums up the darkest century in Mankind's history right there...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

wow! Spanish inquisition, Black Plague, Ice Ages and you think the last 100 years were the toughest for mankind? Pretty narrow view IMO.

7x57
02-13-2009, 10:27 AM
wow! Spanish inquisition, Black Plague, Ice Ages and you think the last 100 years were the toughest for mankind? Pretty narrow view IMO.

It all depends on your measurement function. In terms of sheer numbers, the 20th century scores very highly. In terms of percentage population, I'm not sure it does, but I would not absolutely state it can't be true. I'd have to see the numbers. The Spanish Inquisition was not a population-wide genocide, the Black Plague was not an example of human cruelty, and the Ice Ages were also not only normal but too long ago for us to actually have records to verify what happened.

In general natural disasters horrify us less than human savagery, so it is appropriate to discount "acts of God" in the measurement function. We are also more horrified by sheer numbers, that's also reasonable to weigh.

At the risk of dragging irrelevant religious issues, the 20th century seems to have produced more Christian martyrs than all the previous centuries combined (it also was the most successful missionary century since the first, which you can make of what you will). Forget the particular religious issue for a minute--the problem is that Americans were largely sheltered from the horrors of the 20th, and we somehow view Nazi Germany (which touched us more than most) as the exception instead of a fairly common example throughout history.

Basically, Americans think the 20th century wasn't so bad because they weren't targeted for genocide. Then there is the fact that the left has spent a great deal of time ignoring and excusing the amazing amounts of leftist genocide and terror....

I'd like to actually make a chart for all the centuries we can make guesses for, based on a simple measure like (state terror factor)*(% of world population killed by governments) + (% of world population killed by individual crime) + (Act Of God Factor)*(% of world population killed by natural disaster), where the subjective (Act of God Factor) is something like 1/2 - 1/4 and the subjective (state terror factor) is something like 2 - 4. It would be interesting to see how the numbers really come out.

It would be even more interesting to figure out a way to count the population not killed but living in terror or subjugation, but that would make it a lot more complicated and even more subjective.

7x57

SwissFluCase
02-13-2009, 11:40 AM
wow! Spanish inquisition, Black Plague, Ice Ages and you think the last 100 years were the toughest for mankind? Pretty narrow view IMO.

I said the darkest, not the toughest. The body counts due to human depravity during the 20th century are the highest. We can only estimate how high the numbers are. Democide. We managed to industrialize murder on an unprecedented scale. We can still top these records, though... :rolleyes:

Natural disasters are acts of God, not of human will. The Plauge was certainly a depopulation event, and wiped out 30% of the human race, twice. This was a result of ignorance of basic sanitation practices, not of human evil. The ice age is simply a part of living on the planet. We just have to deal with it. Not caused by evil. The Inquisition? This was a terror tool to keep the subjects in line. The body count does not compare to, say, Stalin.

The 20th century was great for America, but then again, we are supposed to be the shining light of hope, justice, and freedom to the world.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

.454
02-13-2009, 11:41 AM
wow! Spanish inquisition, Black Plague, Ice Ages and you think the last 100 years were the toughest for mankind? Pretty narrow view IMO.

:confused:

The Spanish Inquisition killed approximately 32,000 between between 1480-1808. That's an average of 97 people a year over its entire 328 years of existence.
Compare that with 22,685 - the number of people killed in Islamic terrorist attacks in 2007 alone; or 20,000,000 the number of victims killed by Stalin between 1924 and 1953 (that's 690,000 victims/year), and you'll get some perspective about mass murderers and the toughest years for mankind.

As for the Black Plague and the Ice Ages...did Al Gore came up with a new theory they were man-caused events - and I didn't heard from it?

aileron
02-13-2009, 11:52 AM
I'd like to actually make a chart for all the centuries we can make guesses for, based on a simple measure like (state terror factor)*(% of world population killed by governments) + (% of world population killed by individual crime) + (Act Of God Factor)*(% of world population killed by natural disaster), where the subjective (Act of God Factor) is something like 1/2 - 1/4 and the subjective (state terror factor) is something like 2 - 4. It would be interesting to see how the numbers really come out.

It would be even more interesting to figure out a way to count the population not killed but living in terror or subjugation, but that would make it a lot more complicated and even more subjective.

7x57

Great idea, it would be best as a moving graphic as time goes on. And the user can pull the time forward and back. Nice flattened globe graphic with sound would be killer. :)

SwissFluCase
02-13-2009, 12:05 PM
...and the Ice Ages were also not only normal but too long ago for us to actually have records to verify what happened.

There have been studies of the human DNA that indicated that at one point there may have been less than 1000 of us alive during an Ice Age. If that is true, (and I am having trouble finding that article) then it would certainly qualify as the toughest period in human history. It would seem as though the toughest periods of history could only be recorded by such natural means. I'm sure unspeakable horrors occurred, simply out of the drive to survive. That is a bit different than committing unspeakable horrors for political reasons during a period of great abundance.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

7x57
02-13-2009, 12:38 PM
There have been studies of the human DNA that indicated that at one point there may have been less than 1000 of us alive during an Ice Age. If that is true, (and I am having trouble finding that article) then it would certainly qualify as the toughest period in human history. It would seem as though the toughest periods of history could only be recorded by such natural means. I'm sure unspeakable horrors occurred, simply out of the drive to survive. That is a bit different than committing unspeakable horrors for political reasons during a period of great abundance.


What you are raising is, again, what we really want to measure. If "toughest" means most difficult for survival of the species, then yes the worst times will probably be found just as you describe. Population bottlenecks are by definition the worst such events, and they won't be evident in the historical record for the simple reason that no such bottlenecks have happened in historical time.

Of course, some might wish to factor in species survival probability through a global thermonuclear war--that would be fair, except that the numbers are impossible to obtain. No one can do more than guess. Your idea of looking for genetic bottlenecks has the great virtue of being objectively measurable (well, by comparison with nuclear war predictions anyway).

What I was attempting to measure was something more like horror, and that is reflected in my weight factors. I put a premium on murder by government simply because it is (should be) more frightening. Crime threatens the civil order, but only by overwhelming it. When the guardians of the civil order itself commit crime, then the threat is far greater and the terror far more. Similarly, I discounted natural disasters simply because, in my judgement, that causes less terror to us. There is a reasonable chance of a high-casualty earthquake in CA, but I think it causes us less day-to-day angst than we would have if there were a belligerent military force occupying the central valley which had the same probability (whatever it is) of breaking out of its perimeter and assaulting, say, San Francisco.

Both are pretty interesting, but very different quantities.

7x57

tombinghamthegreat
02-13-2009, 12:59 PM
:confused:

The Spanish Inquisition killed approximately 32,000 between between 1480-1808. That's an average of 97 people a year over its entire 328 years of existence.
Compare that with 22,685 - the number of people killed in Islamic terrorist attacks in 2007 alone; or 20,000,000 the number of victims killed by Stalin between 1924 and 1953 (that's 690,000 victims/year), and you'll get some perspective about mass murderers and the toughest years for mankind.

As for the Black Plague and the Ice Ages...did Al Gore came up with a new theory they were man-caused events - and I didn't heard from it?

That list can go on...50-80 million lives lost in ww2, 8 million lost in ww1, the chinese cultural revolution killed well over million directly, millions more indirectly, not to mention the cold war risked the chance of a nuclear war, the millions that died in during the US containing communism in Asia in the Korean war and the Vietnam war, look at the genocide in late 20th century in Africa and the middle east... I did not even mention the 100's of millions of people that were displaced, capured/oppressed, wounded....

7x57
02-13-2009, 1:10 PM
Part of the problem with the 20th century is that technology is control of nature, and control of nature means control of people. People haven't changed ethically one bit since the last ice age--but the opportunity for mischief is vastly increased.

If you can mass-produce soap, you can mass-produce terror.

7x57

ZRX61
02-13-2009, 1:30 PM
Kinda pales into insignificance compared to the Creators little germ called smallpox wiping out 500Million in the 1800's.... or that deal with Noah & his boat, now THAT was genocide ;)

SwissFluCase
02-13-2009, 1:36 PM
If you can mass-produce soap, you can mass-produce terror.7x57

Your choice of words is in itself a chilling description of the brutality of the 20th century, somewhere around the early to mid '40s. :eek:

Regards,


SwissFluCase

.454
02-13-2009, 2:26 PM
That list can go on...50-80 million lives lost in ww2, 8 million lost in ww1, the chinese cultural revolution killed well over million directly, millions more indirectly, not to mention the cold war risked the chance of a nuclear war, the millions that died in during the US containing communism in Asia in the Korean war and the Vietnam war, look at the genocide in late 20th century in Africa and the middle east... I did not even mention the 100's of millions of people that were displaced, capured/oppressed, wounded....

Thank you very much. Q.E.D, the number of defenseless people killed by actions of communist, fascist and other collectivist tyrants in the 20th Century alone dwarfs the total number of those killed by the Inquisition in 400 years by a factor of hundreds of thousands to one. But since the left must vilify the Christian religion at every opportunity, keeping things in perspective isn't a requirement for them.

DDT
02-13-2009, 2:37 PM
Thank you very much. Q.E.D, the number of defenseless people killed by actions of communist, fascist and other collectivist tyrants in the 20th Century alone dwarfs the total number of those killed by the Inquisition in 400 years by a factor of hundreds of thousands to one. But since the left must vilify the Christian religion at every opportunity, keeping things in perspective isn't a requirement for them.

Yes, and the 17th and 18th and centuries were a picnic for Native Americans (small pox anyone? Here, have a blanket) or the 16th and 17th for the natives of Central and South America. Hell, not just the inquisition or the plague (which was intentionally spread by catapulting dead into besieged cities) but the vast majority of life in the medieval era was dominated by complete statism. While the atrocities of the 20th century should not be glossed over do not assume that just because they are the atrocities to which we are closest that they are the worst in history.

The technology of the 20th century has certainly ballooned the size of individual atrocities, Nan King, Pol Pot, Stalin/Lenin, Hitler et. al. were certainly better at tearing down humanity than in previous generations but don't assume that it was not just as likely for individuals to be persecuted in earlier times, it was just more personal.

As for the U.S. The single worst century for the barbarism that is mans ability to do harm to his own kind would have to have been the 19th century and the 1860's in particular.

Mulay El Raisuli
02-14-2009, 9:26 AM
:confused:

The Spanish Inquisition killed approximately 32,000 between between 1480-1808. That's an average of 97 people a year over its entire 328 years of existence.
Compare that with 22,685 - the number of people killed in Islamic terrorist attacks in 2007 alone; or 20,000,000 the number of victims killed by Stalin between 1924 and 1953 (that's 690,000 victims/year), and you'll get some perspective about mass murderers and the toughest years for mankind.


According to a show I saw on the History Channel, the Spanish Inquisition (which no one expects) killed some 5,000 people during its run. At the same time, some 100,000 people were tortured/killed throughout the rest of Europe. Its clear that while the Spanish Inquisition gets all the bad press, there were worse things going on.

As for the the 20th century, www.jpfo.org gives a far more inclusive list of the horrors that brought to the world.

The Raisuli

Mulay El Raisuli
02-14-2009, 9:31 AM
Discovered this gem over at Sipsey Street Irregulars (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/02/vanderboegh-classic-what-i-have-learned.html). It is a piece written 10 years ago by Mike Vanderboegh and his words are ringing today even truer than the day they were written.



Read the rest here (http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-i-have-learned-from-twentieth.html)


From the link:
"LESSON NO. 3: If a bureaucrat tells you that he must know if you have a firearm so he can put your name on a list for the common good, or wants to issue you an identity card so that you be more easily identified -- tell him to go to hell. Registration of people and firearms is the required precursor to the tyranny which permits genocide. Bureaucrats cannot send soldiers to doors that are not on their list."

And yet, we have some fellow Calgunners suggesting that this IS a good idea. That we all just sign up for this because 'we're already licensed & such anyway' (not an exact quote, but close enough). My stated belief in that thread was "not just no, but HELL NO." This thread just adds more fuel to why the answer should be HELL NO.

The Raisuli

.454
02-14-2009, 9:36 AM
And yet, we have some fellow Calgunners suggesting that this IS a good idea. That we all just sign up for this because 'we're already licensed & such anyway' (not an exact quote, but close enough).

The Raisuli

If stupid would hurt, lots of people would be on massive doses of Oxycontin 24/7

pullnshoot25
02-14-2009, 10:30 AM
If stupid would hurt, lots of people would be on massive doses of Oxycontin 24/7

YOu know, I just synthesized a batch of that last night. OXY PARTY!

JK, not that good at O-Chem yet :)

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 5:03 PM
Sums up the darkest century in Mankind's history right there...

Darkest century? You need to start hitting the history books.