PDA

View Full Version : .223 rem vs 45 auto


para38super
02-12-2009, 6:01 PM
What has more stopping power a .223 rem rifle or 45 auto pistol. I owned both and wonder which has more stoping power at 25 yard distance. Whch one would choose if you had to go to a gun fight, 25 yards max,
10 rounds max.

Jonathan Doe
02-12-2009, 6:04 PM
223 will go through a soft body armor, 45 won't. I will choose 223 with M4 style upper.

AlexBreya
02-12-2009, 6:09 PM
if you're talking about energy wise, the .223 is more than twice as powerful. if you can hit someone at the 25 yards as easily with the .45 (and they don't have body armor) the .45 would likely do more damage because it would make a bigger wound channel. but i'd say a .223 is better because its more accurate and the recoil is easier to handle if you're shooting as fast as you can.

rumble phish
02-12-2009, 6:44 PM
I disagree. The .45 ACP round was made specifically for stopping power. The .223 is a small round and would over penetrate. The .45 has less energy but more mass. It definitely wins the "knock down" power game.

JMHO.

Synergy
02-12-2009, 6:49 PM
I can't find the source, but I heard the military is questioning the effectiveness of .223/5.56 close range. Especially since they are prohibited from using hollow point. The round is so high powered it enters and exits with a small wound, with zero expansion. Thus many victims of a .223 dont die and are just injured.

I vote for a .45. My 1911 has 10+1 of Ranger SXT +p

OutlawDon
02-12-2009, 6:59 PM
I would choose the .223 for sure at 25 yards!

GW
02-12-2009, 7:02 PM
The rifle. Always the rifle
Load hollow points if you want expansion
Control
Accuracy
Firepower
Of course I'm talking about a real AR not a fixed mag model;)

Dr Rockso
02-12-2009, 7:12 PM
I can't find the source, but I heard the military is questioning the effectiveness of .223/5.56 close range. Especially since they are prohibited from using hollow point. The round is so high powered it enters and exits with a small wound, with zero expansion.
That's said to be more of a problem with the short (14.5") carbine barrels. There's supposedly more velocity and better terminal ballistics out of the longer barrels. If I had to choose which one to take to a gunfight, I would always choose a semi-automatic centerfire rifle over any pistol.

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2009, 7:18 PM
Hell, I don't feel like doing the math right now. But, for any gunfight, I'd rather have a rifle than a handgun.

para38super
02-12-2009, 7:18 PM
Lets make this more interesting. What brand and gr for caliber of choice.

OutlawDon
02-12-2009, 7:20 PM
Lets make this more interesting. What brand and gr for caliber of choice.

Any heavier grained (69grains+) .223 hollowpoints for me

kap
02-12-2009, 7:28 PM
Hell, I don't feel like doing the math right now. But, for any gunfight, I'd rather have a rifle than a handgun.

+1

If you know you have a fight bring a rifle. Sidearms are for when your primary weapon goes down.

bohoki
02-12-2009, 7:32 PM
depends

if i was firing on aquaman i would use the 45 because the 223 breaks up in the first couple feet of water

but if you are firing on superman you need kryptonite filled hollowpoints with 223 cause a kryptonite core 45 would bounce off imediatly but the 223 would fragment and disperse the kryptonite powder everywhere

same with wonderwoman her wrists of steel and bracelets would ricochet the 45s right back at me but the 223 would disintegrate

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2009, 7:36 PM
Lets make this more interesting. What brand and gr for caliber of choice.

the weight of the bullet will depend on the rifle in question. Also, the weight of the bullet is only one of many factors to consider when chosing a load. Bullet preformance will be affected by powder type and amount used, seating depth, amount of crimp etc. Oh, in case you haven't guessed by now, I prefer to use "CSA" brand handloads, taylor made for the weapon and task at hand.

rumble phish
02-12-2009, 7:40 PM
Wait a minute. Were talking 25 yards or less. A .223 is going to over penetrate I would think. At 25 yards and less the .45 is just devastating.




I think this will be 10+ pager :laugh:

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2009, 7:45 PM
Wait a minute. Were talking 25 yards or less. A .223 is going to over penetrate I would think. At 25 yards and less the .45 is just devastating.




I think this will be 10+ pager :laugh:

I'd agree but, give the choice between a rifle and a handgun, the rifle will alway be more acurate and it can hold more rounds too!

rumble phish
02-12-2009, 7:47 PM
I'd agree but, give the choice between a rifle and a handgun, the rifle will alway be more acurate and it can hold more rounds too!


I'm really not trying to argue with you here, but in California neither can hold more than 10 rounds. And we're talking about 25 yards or less, not a battlefield situation. I'd picture it as an urban confrontation or self defense in your home or on your property. Who just walks around carrying their AR?

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2009, 7:53 PM
I'm really not trying to argue with you here, but in California neither can hold more than 10 rounds. And we're talking about 25 yards or less, not a battlefield situation. I'd picture it as an urban confrontation or self defense in your home or on your property. Who just walks around carrying their AR?

First, here in California, I legally have rifles and pistols which can and do hold more than 10 rounds. Secondly, the OP asked about his two weapons and which would be prefered. If he had just asked about caliber preference for a 25 yard or less gunfight, I would have suggested a .45acp carbine. BTW, a few years ago, I lived on 400+ acres in the hills outside of Malibu and I routinely walked around with an AR, SKS, shotgun or some other longgun depending on what I was doing at the time. I think there are a lot of people who do the same thing and think nothing of it.

Crusader
02-12-2009, 7:54 PM
I can't find the source, but I heard the military is questioning the effectiveness of .223/5.56 close range. Especially since they are prohibited from using hollow point. The round is so high powered it enters and exits with a small wound, with zero expansion. Thus many victims of a .223 dont die and are just injured.

I vote for a .45. My 1911 has 10+1 of Ranger SXT +p

But isn't the whole point of the 5.56 is that it tumbles and fragments when at high enough velocities? I can understand the lack of effectiveness when reaching the limits of its fragment range, but at close range wouldn't the bullet tumble and break apart?

rg_1111@yahoo.com
02-12-2009, 7:57 PM
The .45 would do more damage. I would take the .223 because I can shoot a rifle better.

As far as bullet weight in would depend on what twist the barrel had.

Surfdog
02-12-2009, 8:02 PM
Seem to me that the temporary wound channel created from the high velocity rifle bullet would do more damage than the 45, and also that the 223 round with good velocity should fragment causing more possible wound paths.

para38super
02-12-2009, 8:06 PM
Maybe if I specify the weapons, it will make things easier.
Ruger Mini 14 (223 rem) 1:7 twist rate
Colt 1911 45 acp

ohsmily
02-12-2009, 8:08 PM
What has more stopping power a .223 rem rifle or 45 auto pistol. I owned both and wonder which has more stoping power at 25 yard distance. Whch one would choose if you had to go to a gun fight, 25 yards max,
10 rounds max.
Maybe if I specify the weapons, it will make things easier.
Ruger Mini 14 (223 rem) 1:7 twist rate
Colt 1911 45 acp

Is this a joke? Unless you need to conceal it on your person....a rifle, always a HP rifle before a handgun.

ohsmily
02-12-2009, 8:10 PM
I'm really not trying to argue with you here, but in California neither can hold more than 10 rounds.

You are woefully mistaken.

Sam
02-12-2009, 8:20 PM
I'm really not trying to argue with you here, but in California neither can hold more than 10 rounds. And we're talking about 25 yards or less, not a battlefield situation. I'd picture it as an urban confrontation or self defense in your home or on your property. Who just walks around carrying their AR?

maybe not in the urban areas, there's still lots of land in California.

joemama
02-12-2009, 8:22 PM
I say screw it and go with a .50 beowolf. :D bigger than a .45 and its a rifle.

devildog999
02-12-2009, 8:23 PM
I don't care, I have them both ;)

para38super
02-12-2009, 8:28 PM
I don't care, I have them both ;)

Sorry for wasting your time, but if you don't care don't answer the question.

bobfried
02-12-2009, 8:39 PM
I'd take my .460S&W.

If the bullet doesn't travel back in time to take the perp down 3 weeks before they get to my house, the concussion and fireball will.

On a more serious note, a sidearm is called a sidearm for a reason. It stays on your side as a backup and as a last resort to a rifle. Any rifle with a decent round will outperform a handgun of any sort, if anything else in sheer hits and accuracy.

And a .223 is MUCH MUCH safer indoors than a .45 would be. Any good .223 round will break up in dry wall whilst a handgun round (even a 9mm) will penetrate much more and cause collateral damage. This was one of the biggest misconception that's out there about the .223 round, that it will penetrate more indoors. Anyone can notice the transition to AR's for most police forces now, because people started to do some actual testing instead of listening to some old guy that still shoots black powder revolvers.

jben
02-12-2009, 8:44 PM
At 25 yards, I'd use the Mini-14. If for some miraculous reason they were still moving towards me, I would take the 1911 off my hip and end the confrontation. It would be a Kimber, not a Colt, but the end result would be the same.

AlexBreya
02-12-2009, 8:46 PM
I disagree. The .45 ACP round was made specifically for stopping power. The .223 is a small round and would over penetrate. The .45 has less energy but more mass. It definitely wins the "knock down" power game.

JMHO.

uhhh, mass has to do with energy, and in terms of energy, the .223 is much more than a .45. You're thinking of "diameter" which is the reason the .45 would have more stopping power. larger diameter = larger wound channel. and the .223 tumbles to F up your insides.

elSquid
02-12-2009, 8:46 PM
45 ACP, 185gr JHP:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/45%20ACP%20WW%20STHP.jpg

223 Rem, 50gr JSP:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/223%20Remington%2050gr%20JSP.jpg

Credit:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm


-- Michael

rayra
02-12-2009, 9:05 PM
Meaningless question / comparison, especially in that they're totally different bullet shapes.
You could chase your tail with a straight up muzzle energy comparison. Jerk off a little with a penetration argument. Then tromp around in a few circles arguing about wound channel and fragmentation before laying down to sleep.

/might as well asked '9mm or 45?'

joemama
02-12-2009, 9:18 PM
^so basically choose a gun you feel comfortable shooting in a high stress situation and that one will work good enough. As for me, it will be whatever is handy at the moment, I dont care if its a .22. I keep a .40 smith & wesson next to me at night just because its handier than grabbing my EA-15 in the middle of the night.

rumble phish
02-12-2009, 9:34 PM
What has more stopping power a .223 rem rifle or 45 auto pistol. I owned both and wonder which has more stoping power at 25 yard distance. Whch one would choose if you had to go to a gun fight, 25 yards max,
10 rounds max.


Am I the only one sticking to the original parameters here?

He asked "Which has more stopping power at 25 yards or less, 10 rounds max"

<25 yards I still vote for the .45ACP


I'll put it this way... which would knock you down harder? Getting hit with a tablespoon at 100mph or an 8lb sledgehammer at 60mph?

STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.


.45ACP



if I'm wrong I'll take my chances.....

IceMan711
02-12-2009, 9:52 PM
Am I the only one sticking to the original parameters here?

He asked "Which has more stopping power at 25 yards or less, 10 rounds max"

<25 yards I still vote for the .45ACP


I'll put it this way... which would knock you down harder? Getting hit with a tablespoon at 100mph or an 8lb sledgehammer at 60mph?

STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.


.45ACP



if I'm wrong I'll take my chances.....

Sadly, you are wrong. The .223 will do more damage at ANY range. Take a look at some ballistic gel test results. Even your super duper .45 hollow points will be less effective than the rifle round.

It's like you would put down your M4 and switch to your 1911 once the bad guy got "in .45 range" because it is more effective. So wrong.

Black Majik
02-12-2009, 9:54 PM
Am I the only one sticking to the original parameters here?

He asked "Which has more stopping power at 25 yards or less, 10 rounds max"

<25 yards I still vote for the .45ACP


I'll put it this way... which would knock you down harder? Getting hit with a tablespoon at 100mph or an 8lb sledgehammer at 60mph?

STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.


.45ACP



if I'm wrong I'll take my chances.....

Are you seriously claiming KNOCK DOWN FORCE with a pistol cartridge??!? :confused:

elSquid
02-12-2009, 9:55 PM
STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.

55gr @ 3200 fps = 176,000
230gr @ 850 fps = 195,000

Momentum wise, not much difference.

-- Michael

dwa
02-12-2009, 10:12 PM
STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.


.45ACP





what is stopping power you speaking of? will a .45 knock you back? possibly through a big glass window?

jumbopanda
02-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Am I the only one sticking to the original parameters here?

He asked "Which has more stopping power at 25 yards or less, 10 rounds max"

<25 yards I still vote for the .45ACP


I'll put it this way... which would knock you down harder? Getting hit with a tablespoon at 100mph or an 8lb sledgehammer at 60mph?

STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.


.45ACP



if I'm wrong I'll take my chances.....

You're completely wrong. The damage that a bullet does depends entirely on the wound channel. There is NO SUCH THING as knock down force. You'd need a cannonball to actually knock someone down. Stopping power is all about disrupting vital organs, and the larger the wound channel, the greater the chance that it will happen.

AlliedArmory
02-12-2009, 10:16 PM
haha. i have one of each. so its all good whichever u guys decide

Linus
02-12-2009, 10:24 PM
55gr @ 3200 fps = 176,000
230gr @ 850 fps = 195,000

Momentum wise, not much difference.

-- Michael

55gr @ 3200fps = 1250 ft/lbs
230gr @850fps = 368 ft/lbs

Energy wise, HUGE difference.

Jonathan Doe
02-12-2009, 11:06 PM
There was a shooting last year between drug dealers. One guy had a 9mm and the other guy had a 223. The guy who had 9mm caught a round on the chin where a big gaping hole was created by the round and bled to death. The guy who was hit with 9mm ran away bleeding. The shooting occurred at the distance of about 25 yards. Of course 45 will have more power than 9mm, but I will choose rifle in a gun fight.

OutlawDon
02-12-2009, 11:21 PM
I'll put it this way... which would knock you down harder? Getting hit with a tablespoon at 100mph or an 8lb sledgehammer at 60mph?

STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.


.45ACP



if I'm wrong I'll take my chances.....

Muhahahaha....Get a clue. What are you talking about?! Do you know anything about ballistics? :confused:

Axewound
02-13-2009, 12:23 AM
There was a shooting last year between drug dealers. One guy had a 9mm and the other guy had a 223. The guy who had 9mm caught a round on the chin where a big gaping hole was created by the round and bled to death. The guy who was hit with 9mm ran away bleeding. The shooting occurred at the distance of about 25 yards. Of course 45 will have more power than 9mm, but I will choose rifle in a gun fight.

sounds more like a shot placement senario than which caliber is more effective

m98
02-13-2009, 1:32 AM
Muhahahaha....Get a clue. What are you talking about?! Do you know everything about ballistics? :confused:

X2......LOL

technique
02-13-2009, 1:40 AM
I keep my AR pistol by my bed no matter how hard people laugh. Even if it lacks velocity. And if I miss..Who cares..The flame it burps may char broil my attackers face.:):43:

AlliedArmory
02-13-2009, 2:16 AM
all the specifics dont matter. if your a good shot, it doesnt matter what your shooting. a 22 can kill someone just as easy for a good shooter

rumble phish
02-13-2009, 9:25 AM
Muhahahaha....Get a clue. What are you talking about?! Do you know anything about ballistics? :confused:


Admittedly, no. Not as much as I would like. But I'm getting some good points here.

I understand that a rifle is going to have more velocity than a hand gun fro any given caliber. I guess I'm always thinking of things, as far as real life situations, from a handgun point of view. I'd more likely have my .45 on me than my AR. But I see that that is not to say that a smaller caliber in a rifle wouldn't be more effective. It's not like I'm going to stop keeping my 1911 in my nightstand or replace the Mossberg under my bed with my AR. But I suppose you're right, in a Katrina type situation I'd probably prefer my AR (and .45 and shotgun :) )

dgey
02-13-2009, 11:35 AM
223 to much more powerful everyday, anyday. Your handgun is there to fight your way back to your long gun... If you have a choice, bring the rifle... and watch your enemy's disapprear.

tiko
02-13-2009, 8:56 PM
I will definitely take my 1911s...because I do not have any rifle...YET

devildog999
02-13-2009, 9:48 PM
Sorry for wasting your time, but if you don't care don't answer the question.

Don't be a dick, was just joking:mad:

But for the sake of seriousness, I think the .45 would have more stopping power at 25 yards. It is meant more for close quarters as compared to .223 IMHO

dwa
02-13-2009, 10:38 PM
Admittedly, no. Not as much as I would like. But I'm getting some good points here.

I understand that a rifle is going to have more velocity than a hand gun fro any given caliber. I guess I'm always thinking of things, as far as real life situations, from a handgun point of view. I'd more likely have my .45 on me than my AR. But I see that that is not to say that a smaller caliber in a rifle wouldn't be more effective. It's not like I'm going to stop keeping my 1911 in my nightstand or replace the Mossberg under my bed with my AR. But I suppose you're right, in a Katrina type situation I'd probably prefer my AR (and .45 and shotgun :) )

basically there is no such thing as "stopping power" i don't think there's a round in existence that will knock you back, tear you apart yes knock you back no. in regards to lethality there are several factors to look at which is probably what you ment by raw knock down stopping power, wound channel permanent wound cavity and fragmentation if applicable. loss of life is most often the result of loss of blood caused by the previous not being knocked around. a hand gun is a handgun it is not and will never be a primary weapon, that's what a long gun is for, think of a pistol as a knife and a long gun as a sword.

drummerdude1188
02-13-2009, 10:44 PM
This thread is so full of Fail its not even funny actually is funny

AlexBreya
02-13-2009, 10:52 PM
Am I the only one sticking to the original parameters here?

He asked "Which has more stopping power at 25 yards or less, 10 rounds max"

<25 yards I still vote for the .45ACP


I'll put it this way... which would knock you down harder? Getting hit with a tablespoon at 100mph or an 8lb sledgehammer at 60mph?

STOPPING POWER. not wound channel. Pure, unadulterated knock down force.


.45ACP



if I'm wrong I'll take my chances.....



Here, i'll give you a more to scale redo of what you're trying to say:

Would you rather get hit with a spoon going 300 mph
or 4 spoons going 100 mph?

Shotgun Man
02-13-2009, 10:55 PM
Hate to just pile on, but at 25 yards, the rifle would be sweet for delivering headshots that would be missed with a handgun.

OutlawDon
02-14-2009, 6:04 AM
Also, the 223 has something the 45 won't have....

Two words....hydrostatic shock.

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/purkraj.jpg

Jonathan Doe
02-14-2009, 6:18 AM
Either 223 or 45, just hit the target and see what happens. Either one will stop the threat. :)

Bongos
02-14-2009, 6:55 AM
how about a 45acp rifle, lot of thump in 100 yds or less

live2offroad
02-14-2009, 8:14 AM
This is a goofy question (I'd take the .223 at 25 yards..)

It's goofy because 25 yards is outside the effective range of a .45 cal. Oh, you can hit targets accurately out there with one, but that's not really what that firearm or caliber was designed for..

In my humble opinion a Pistol = close quarter (0 to 30 ft, or across the average room). So if you are shooting at something out a 25 yards with a pistol that's the wrong tool for the application.

-Peter

Peter W Bush
02-14-2009, 10:54 AM
i hope there is no doubt in anybodies mind that a .223 will do more damage in ANY range than a .45ACP

Mute
02-14-2009, 2:14 PM
Apple vs. oranges. One is primarily used in handguns, the other in rifles. You need to evaluate when and where you'll use your particular firearm. All things being equal, the .223 is more likely to stop a fight quicker. IF I had the choice, I'd use the .223 (and rifle) every time, however, outside of the home, you're much more likely to have a pistol if CCW is an option for you.

It's rather silly to be comparing the two when they clearly are meant to serve very different purposes.

bill104
02-14-2009, 10:42 PM
All I have to say is remember LA, two guys with 223's held off several leos with there pistols.
My toughts would be a 223 rifle would able to hit its mark 10 times, and the 45 would miss 10 times, but that depends on the person and their skills, even then knowing someone is trying to kill you makes you shake ALOT, in my personal opinion, 5 yds 25 yds or 100 yds, 223.

SDgarrick
02-14-2009, 11:01 PM
http://www.brassfetcher.com/images/tacticoolAR15.jpg

Just shoot him with this, incinerate him and call it a day.

pinwheels
02-14-2009, 11:35 PM
LMFAO! Please more pics! Is there a gun under all that?
It's a bit hard to tell what all is there, but could maybe qualify for that electromagnetic beam weapon DARPA's been working on. DON'T CROSS THE BEAMS!:oops:

GW
02-15-2009, 1:27 PM
Go to a fireams training academy
Gunsite
Front Sight
Thunder Ranch
I don't care which because every last one will say If you know you're going to be in a gunfight...
BRING A RIFLE!

A handgun is a defensive weapon as in "Holy crap! I'm about to be attacked!"
It's what you have to use because you don't have a rifle with you.

Jonathan Doe
02-15-2009, 1:56 PM
Usually, when there is a gun fight between rifles and handguns, rifles win. I have seen it a few times at crime scenes.

Jpach
02-20-2009, 12:47 AM
Easy choice. 10mm :cool:

1911m1a
02-20-2009, 9:04 AM
Thread Hijacked

Discuss.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17641&stc=1&d=1235152921



NAS-T
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/308%20Winchester.jpg

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/223%20Remington%2050gr%20JSP.jpg

Source
http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

Black Majik
02-20-2009, 9:07 AM
Thread Hijacked

Discuss.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17641&stc=1&d=1235152921

Definitely 7.62 Nato. A miss in close proximity will still rip the face off the opponent.

Jpach
02-20-2009, 11:12 PM
^^^^Iv actually seen that happen. And I hear that a .50BMG going by a person will actually castrate them

Peter W Bush
02-22-2009, 6:28 AM
^^^^Iv actually seen that happen. And I hear that a .50BMG going by a person will actually castrate them

Check out .50BMG sniper videos.. Every time a human target gets show with one, their body seems to just twist around and break like a twig. I saw one where a guy gets shot in the shoulder and his arm goes flying off.

Str8shooter
02-22-2009, 6:51 PM
I Love my M&P, but If its between it and my life, Ill take my rifle.

dwa
02-23-2009, 6:43 PM
Thread Hijacked

Discuss.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17641&stc=1&d=1235152921



NAS-T
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/308%20Winchester.jpg

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/223%20Remington%2050gr%20JSP.jpg

Source
http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

well id want to go somewhere in between in the 6.8 6.5 realm or ideally a cartridge that wasn't constrained to fitting in an m4/m16. there is no question the 7.62 is the more powerful/deadly round. however i do see the merit of the less weight more rounds argument. 7.62 can be considered overkill for some applications while 5.56 could be considered inadequate for the same task.

eccvets
02-24-2009, 5:23 PM
some what like the 5.7 vs what ever other handgun round argument.

mif_slim
02-24-2009, 5:40 PM
i thought a handgun will win. come on! they always win in movies it must be true!

-hanko
02-25-2009, 12:48 PM
This thread is so full of Fail its not even funny actually is funny
A veritible effing train wreck of a thread, if ever there were one...

For those of who are unfamiliar with 'stopping power', I've seen movies where merely taking a bullet can cause someone to be thrown back 6 feet or more into a plate glass window...how about that??;)

OP, 1 thing...read up on ballistics.:D

I'm going back to the 'what-kind-of-gun-is-best-for-bear?" threads:thumbsup:

-hanko

Jpach
02-25-2009, 12:54 PM
Check out .50BMG sniper videos.. Every time a human target gets show with one, their body seems to just twist around and break like a twig. I saw one where a guy gets shot in the shoulder and his arm goes flying off.

You probably watched the video that claimed to be of a "sniper shooting Taliban/terrorists" or something like that. In reality it is a varmint video. The rifle used is a Remington 700 in .308 and the guys were shooting and what I believe to be rock chucks or something like that. Notice that all of the terrorists are super furry and thick?

Dr Rockso
02-25-2009, 1:21 PM
You probably watched the video that claimed to be of a "sniper shooting Taliban/terrorists" or something like that. In reality it is a varmint video. The rifle used is a Remington 700 in .308 and the guys were shooting and what I believe to be rock chucks or something like that. Notice that all of the terrorists are super furry and thick?
TOZoYIoyjuM

My grandpa sent that to me. I think they're rock chucks.

56Chevy
02-25-2009, 2:33 PM
i thought a handgun will win. come on! they always win in movies it must be true!
I heard about a guy who was standing too close to a guy shooting .44 magnum at the range, and his head got blown apart.:rolleyes:

dwa
02-26-2009, 9:58 AM
I heard about a guy who was standing too close to a guy shooting .44 magnum at the range, and his head got blown apart.:rolleyes:

i heard the same story but the .44 blew a 5ft hole in the backstop

56Chevy
02-26-2009, 2:24 PM
i heard the same story but the .44 blew a 5ft hole in the backstop
No, that was .50 BMG.

Black Majik
02-26-2009, 2:36 PM
Ah ha! So this thread is where Turners employees seem to get their ballistics information.

56Chevy
02-26-2009, 4:10 PM
Ah ha! So this thread is where Turners employees seem to get their ballistics information.
Turners sucks!:p

I've never actually been to Turner's, but I wanted to be like everyone else.

fusionstar
02-26-2009, 4:24 PM
If you can find a bullet for .223 that can expand within the target at 25 yards without exiting(and there are quite a few that can do this). It will be a better choice than the 45 IMO.

I've never been shot by either nor have I ever shot anyone with either.

Like some others said, .223 has twice the energy as a 45 at that distance.
If your bullet is up to the task.

Human body is 75% liquor so fast zippy rounds that decentigrate on impact are very potent..


just my 2 cents

1lostinspace
02-26-2009, 4:27 PM
What has more stopping power a .223 rem rifle or 45 auto pistol. I owned both and wonder which has more stoping power at 25 yard distance. Whch one would choose if you had to go to a gun fight, 25 yards max,
10 rounds max.

are you really asking this question?

windsheer
02-26-2009, 7:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.223 better sights, better chance of a head shot.
head shot good bye.

.45 is for fighting your way to the rifle




Yup

xrMike
02-26-2009, 7:41 PM
Human body is 75% liquor so fast zippy rounds that decentigrate on impact are very potent..That statement is true, but only if you shoot me on a Friday or Saturday night, tee-hee.

dwa
02-26-2009, 10:37 PM
No, that was .50 BMG.

no no no .50 bmg would journey to the center of the earth.

Peter W Bush
02-26-2009, 11:22 PM
no no no .50 bmg would journey to the center of the earth.

impossible. if you shoot at the ground youll just fly up to space...

and yes, this thred is definitely where turners employees get their info from

M. Sage
02-27-2009, 4:11 AM
The rifle. Always the rifle
Load hollow points if you want expansion
Control
Accuracy
Firepower
Of course I'm talking about a real AR not a fixed mag model;)

+1. .45 isn't as good a stopper as some might think.

Go look up some gelatin tests. Rifles do more damage.

If you can find a bullet for .223 that can expand within the target at 25 yards without exiting(and there are quite a few that can do this). It will be a better choice than the 45 IMO.

Why would you want that!? You want an exit wound. Exit wounds are good. The exit is generally the larger wound. In a face-to-face shooting, I want the bullet to exit the back, since the spine is back there.

Give me 100% penetration 100% of the time, or give me a weapon and ammo that will deliver.

56Chevy
02-27-2009, 5:19 AM
no no no .50 bmg would journey to the center of the earth.
That's right...probably crack it in half like an egg. We must ban .50 BMG.:eek:

Sunwolf
02-27-2009, 6:48 AM
Heard that a .45 will stop an M1A1 in it`s tracks kinda like an IED.

1lostinspace
02-27-2009, 2:48 PM
The .45 would do more damage. I would take the .223 because I can shoot a rifle better.

As far as bullet weight in would depend on what twist the barrel had.

WTF where are you getting this from????

Ok look 5.56 in FMJ needs high FPS in order to fragment about 2700 fps
but like everyone else has said a .223 in JHP at 75-77 will do more damage to a human then even 7.62 FMJ do to fragmentation and cavitation.
Now 7.62 in HP BT or SP would make a far better mess then 5.56

to answer your question get some 75gr TAP and some Winchester Ranger +P and call it a day, you can kill just fine with either one.

domokun
02-27-2009, 3:56 PM
+1. .45 isn't as good a stopper as some might think.

Go look up some gelatin tests. Rifles do more damage.



Why would you want that!? You want an exit wound. Exit wounds are good. The exit is generally the larger wound. In a face-to-face shooting, I want the bullet to exit the back, since the spine is back there.

Give me 100% penetration 100% of the time, or give me a weapon and ammo that will deliver.

+1 on this. There's a reason why they designate the rifle as your PRIMARY weapon system. It's the one that is the most violent and will cause the most damage to your foes. Your handgun is typically designated as your secondary weapon system in that its purpose is to save your butt when your primary weapon system goes down. It's supposed to buy you some time so you can get into a relatively safe place to bring your primary weapon system aka rifle back online.

If you're going to have to shoot something and you're not going to be eating it, then you will WANT a big exit wound so the maximum damage can be inflicted on the target.

J_Rock
02-27-2009, 4:08 PM
This thread just reminded me why I tend to stay in the riflemans forum...

I mean are you seriously comparing a rifle cartridge to a pistol cartridge!?

Mstrty
02-28-2009, 12:13 AM
http://www.brassfetcher.com/images/tacticoolAR15.jpg

Just shoot him with this, incinerate him and call it a day.

What the hell it that...

Looks like a Chia EBR

surfinguru
02-28-2009, 10:18 AM
+1 on this. There's a reason why they designate the rifle as your PRIMARY weapon system. It's the one that is the most violent and will cause the most damage to your foes. Your handgun is typically designated as your secondary weapon system in that its purpose is to save your butt when your primary weapon system goes down. It's supposed to buy you some time so you can get into a relatively safe place to bring your primary weapon system aka rifle back online.

If you're going to have to shoot something and you're not going to be eating it, then you will WANT a big exit wound so the maximum damage can be inflicted on the target.

To the OP, this man right here just gave you the answer. Why would you give up a cannon for a pop gun? (figurative of course but I think you get the idea)

m98
03-13-2009, 2:57 AM
To the OP, this man right here just gave you the answer. Why would you give up a cannon for a pop gun? (figurative of course but I think you get the idea)

agreed...

Why would a kodiak hunter opt'd for a 450marlin instead of a berretta cx chambered in .45acp with all the hi caps he can carry?.......

Why would a person want to lower a jeep rubicon and stuff 22's into the wheelwells?