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Jamez
02-12-2009, 12:08 PM
I searched the forums and didn't find anything which means I .A. Spelled something wrong or .B. Fail at searches.
Forgive me if it's been posted :blush5:

I've thought about being an FFL. I've seen these "FFL Kits" for about $10-20. Is that the way to go? Where can I find more info about being an FFL, licensing fees, ect? All I can seem to find are kits that apparently have these answers but i have the buy the kit.
With Obama- in office, is it going to be worth it?

Thanks.

Dr Rockso
02-12-2009, 12:23 PM
I searched the forums and didn't find anything which means I .A. Spelled something wrong or .B. Fail at searches.
Forgive me if it's been posted :blush5:

I've thought about being an FFL. I've seen these "FFL Kits" for about $10-20. Is that the way to go? Where can I find more info about being an FFL, licensing fees, ect? All I can seem to find are kits that apparently have these answers but i have the buy the kit.
With Hitler- I mean Obama- in office, is it going to be worth it?

Thanks.

I'm assuming you don't want to open a gun shop. In that case the only FFL you can reasonably expect to get is an 03 FFL, collector of curios and relics (you can engage in the interstate transfer of certain older firearms for the purposes of your personal collection). There are a dozen reasons you'll never get a 01 FFL unless you're starting a brick and mortar gun store with business licenses and regular hours.

P.S. if you want to search Calguns, my recommendation is to go to google and type in "search term site:calguns.net" without the quotes. That will just search calguns, and is better than the built-in forum search function. This topic gets brought up a lot.

CAL.BAR
02-12-2009, 12:49 PM
Yeah I also looked into in and basically, the ATF and DOJ expect you to do a "minimum" number of transactions each year to keep your license, and you have to have a legitimate commercial location (storefront is best).

If you only want it for collection, you can only get the -03 which only pertains to relics (no hi-caps, AW's SBRs etc) like a regular FFL would

1337vending
02-12-2009, 1:03 PM
Well, the DOJ website (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#1G) says you need:


a. A valid FFL,
b. A valid Seller's Permit issued by the State Board of Equalization,
c. A valid COE issued by the DOJ,
d. Any regulatory business license, or licenses, required by local government,
e. A local license granted by the duly constituted licensing authority, valid for one year from the date of issuance, and in one of the following forms:

1. In the form prescribed by the Attorney General;
2. A regulatory or business license that states on its face, "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" and endorsed by the signature of the issuing authority; or
3. A letter from the licensing authority stating that the jurisdiction does not require any form of regulatory or business license or does not otherwise restrict or regulate the sale of firearms. After obtaining the above licenses, an Application for Centralized List and appropriate fees are submitted to the DOJ. Upon approval of the application, the dealer will be given a CFD number and placed on the Centralized List of firearms dealers.

f. A listing on the DOJ Centralized List of Firearms Dealers.

I've looked into the process and it promises to be a big pain in the you-know-what. You definitely have to be "in business" which means you have to perform a certain # of sales, etc. I'm not sure what that amount is, but from what I hear the ATF will take your license if they feel you're not "making a business" out of it. From what I understand you CAN do this out of your home, it's just not advised. So, that may be a non-starter depending on what you want to be doing.

Now say you DO want to run a business selling firearms. First, I would check with your local zoning weenies at City Hall. Are you going to run it out of your home? Lease a storefront? Gotta make sure that the zoning allows a business to operate out of where you're doing it. (See requirement E) My city allows home-based businesses (including firearms), but you have to apply for a business license AND pay a yearly fee based on your projected sales.

OK, so the desk jockeys at City Hall say you can. Now, you have to send off to the ATF for Form 7, application to be a dealer. There's really no place to get this online, so you'll most likely have to call up your local ATF office and have them send you out the forms. This will take about a week. You have to fill out the forms 2 times, once for the ATF and once to send off to your CLEO. It's also $300 every 3 years. Send that off and wait a while.

Now, you have to send off your Certificate of Eligibility (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf) application. This involves getting your fingerprints taken at a local Livescan station, and sending $32 to the DOJ and $19 to the FBI, plus whatever the Livescan station charges.

Also, you have to send off for your Sellers Permit (http://www.boe.ca.gov/info/reg.htm). Fill out the sellers permit application (pdf) (http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/boe400spa.pdf) and submit to the BOE.

Get a local business license from your city/county issuing authority (City Hall, usually). You have to make sure that it actually says "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" in order to take care of req. E.

Now, if you get approved by the ATF for your 01 FFL, you have to enroll on the Centralized List of Firearms Dealers (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/CLApp.pdf), which necessitates you having your FFL #.

Not to mention that you need a mag-stripe reader for your computer in order to DROS things. And then the liability of having the potential for audits from the ATF, CADOJ, CA BOE, and probably some more alphabet agencies that I'm missing.

My Advice: Take the $500 (minimum) startup cost to get your 01 FFL and buy another gun with it.

Disclaimer: I've gone through some of this process but never completed it, so I'm just trying to brain dump some of the things I came across to try and help someone. This advice is worth what you paid for it ;) The ATF is watching you, make sure your tinfoil hat is on snugly. :TFH:

wildhawker
02-12-2009, 1:06 PM
See Post #2 here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=38466)

Jamez
02-12-2009, 1:20 PM
I wanted to do it from home. I thought about getting nra instuctor cert'd abd 1st aide/cpr instructor cert'd and ffl'd then starting a home based firearms safety/ ffl business. Just transfering modern firearms glocks,rifles, shotguns. Standard CA legal guns. Just something that sounded really interesting and I might enjoy doing. Not so much a get rich business type, more of a personal enjoyment. Sounds like starting it will be a bigger headache then my divorce :-D

Harrison_Bergeron
02-12-2009, 5:23 PM
Is the storefront requirement a CA thing? Will Nordyke have any affect on that?

I think getting an 07 FFL and assembling various kits in my garage for the purpose of selling would be a pretty enjoyable and self sustaining hobby.

freakshow10mm
02-12-2009, 5:37 PM
Those FFL kits aren't worth the paper I wipe my *** with. All the information you will need will be on the ATF application and speaking with them.

On the 07 FFL, remember you have to register with the US State Dept as a manufacturer, even if you don't export. That will run $2250 per year. Take that into consideration when you figure your fees and overhead.

1337vending
02-12-2009, 5:46 PM
Not so much a get rich business type, more of a personal enjoyment. Sounds like starting it will be a bigger headache then my divorce :-D

I bet the hassle and liability will be more than your enjoyment. I mean unless you enjoy doing paperwork...:p

I seem to remember "The Right People" saying something like Obama can't ban guns but he can instruct the ATF to hassle FFLs, and make the ATF be a:censored:hats.

freakshow10mm
02-12-2009, 7:03 PM
As long as you take care of your paperwork, you'll be alright for the most part.

seansean
02-14-2009, 7:24 AM
I searched the forums and didn't find anything which means I .A. Spelled something wrong or .B. Fail at searches.
Forgive me if it's been posted :blush5:

I've thought about being an FFL. I've seen these "FFL Kits" for about $10-20. Is that the way to go? Where can I find more info about being an FFL, licensing fees, ect? All I can seem to find are kits that apparently have these answers but i have the buy the kit.
With Obama- in office, is it going to be worth it?

Thanks.

I ws thinking the same thing, and was also told those FFL kits are worthless. I just called ATF and they're mailing me the forms. The process sounds like a PITA, but I'm still thinking of how I can make this work.. I found a place that does a "virtual office" setup cheaply, with rental of an actual conference room/office anytime I need it..I don't want to do brick and mortar, I just want a small-time transfer/sales kinda side business. I don't know if that's feasible or not, but I'm looking into it.

1337vending
02-14-2009, 9:53 AM
I ws thinking the same thing, and was also told those FFL kits are worthless. I just called ATF and they're mailing me the forms. The process sounds like a PITA, but I'm still thinking of how I can make this work.. I found a place that does a "virtual office" setup cheaply, with rental of an actual conference room/office anytime I need it..I don't want to do brick and mortar, I just want a small-time transfer/sales kinda side business. I don't know if that's feasible or not, but I'm looking into it.

You should be able to do it out of your home, depending on what city/county you're in. You just have to get a business license that has your home address.