PDA

View Full Version : Marine veteran student gets raked over the coals for CCW on Oregon campus


Bend
02-12-2009, 6:24 AM
I'll link to another board so I don't have to re-type it.

Link. (http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2807217&page=1&PHPSESSID=42be02c8825c75ce4f6c74865da9826b#Post280 7217)

DDT
02-12-2009, 7:29 AM
You could at least link directly to the article rather than a thread about the article that STILL doesn't give the facts of the case.

http://www.westernoregonjournal.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&ustory_id=66ba8d4a-3bb6-4ac0-8f92-cf55de1cebed

ldivinag
02-12-2009, 7:29 AM
sigh...

people will never learn from history.

asheron2
02-12-2009, 7:50 AM
ROFL seriously?!?!?!?1

"Sophomore Carrie Miller said she thought the suspect was being arrested for drug possession, "not such serious things as a loaded gun.""

Vectrexer
02-12-2009, 7:58 AM
ROFL seriously?!?!?!?1

"Sophomore Carrie Miller said she thought the suspect was being arrested for drug possession, "not such serious things as a loaded gun.""

So drug possession, and the various negative inferences you can draw from that, is a casual thing as compared to the desire to defend yourself. I would say Carrie thinks wasting time, money and resources at school is ok as compared to someone who thinks time at school is a precious privilege.

Sophomore Carrie Miller said she thought the suspect was being arrested for drug possession, "not such serious things as a loaded gun." "I had a test I was down here [WUC] studying for. How am I supposed to concentrate for the next hour?" she questioned shortly after the arrest took place.

If I were Carrie I would be more worried now that a potential defender of her life is removed.


"Senior Alecia St. Germaine said her first reaction to the situation was fear. "My stomach started turning and I wanted to leave," she said. In addition, knowing an armed person could just walk onto campus makes her feel a little uneasy. "I have night class," she said. "Usually, I'm fine walking to my car. Now I'm going to second guess that."

What should be making Alecia feal queasy is the fact that her potential rapist now has free and clear access with one less person available to stand and defend her.

Both of the poor indoctrinated souls should be reeducated before it's too late.

Dr Rockso
02-12-2009, 8:12 AM
ROFL seriously?!?!?!?1

"Sophomore Carrie Miller said she thought the suspect was being arrested for drug possession, "not such serious things as a loaded gun.""
Man that's awful. Kind of made me laugh it's so bad.

Vectrexer
02-12-2009, 8:20 AM
Anyone have link to video of the following tribunal that convicted Jeff Maxwell of the "thought crime"?

zinfull
02-12-2009, 9:16 AM
Any one read the comments after the article? It is not against the law in Oregon to CCW if you have a permit. The cops and school are in the wrong.

Jerry

Casual Observer
02-12-2009, 9:26 AM
Any one read the comments after the article? It is not against the law in Oregon to CCW if you have a permit. The cops and school are in the wrong.

Jerry


Not necessarily. From the article it sounds like he violated school policy rather than state law.

Hutchinson said Western firearm and munition policies are administrative and correspond to Oregon University System policies, which are not necessarily the same as state regulations.


He'll likely get the gun back and receive some administrative punishment from the school - expulsion for example.

It is the same in most CA schools too. State law allows it, but most schools also require notification / permission from the campus police and/or Chancellor's Office to carry on campus. If you're caught violating this policy, they can't charge you with a crime, but they can expel you.

tmuller
02-12-2009, 9:26 AM
What should be making Alecia feal queasy is the fact that her potential rapist now has free and clear access with one less person available to stand and defend her.

Not neccesarily. The arrest was bogus and the article is wrong. CCW holders can carry on public grounds and he broke no laws just policies.

vrand
02-12-2009, 9:33 AM
Any one read the comments after the article? It is not against the law in Oregon to CCW if you have a permit. The cops and school are in the wrong.

Jerry

The comments from readers are more knowledgeable about guns and the law than the original reporter's story.

:thumbsup:

Bend
02-12-2009, 11:12 AM
You could at least link directly to the article rather than a thread about the article that STILL doesn't give the facts of the case.

http://www.westernoregonjournal.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&ustory_id=66ba8d4a-3bb6-4ac0-8f92-cf55de1cebed

You DID read the "aftermath" also did you not? I did the both posts, here and there, and the letter and explained it here in my first post.

ZRX61
02-12-2009, 11:32 AM
I had a brief run in with the local college cops this morning...
Dropped my wallet in class, got home & there was phone msg telling me it had been handed in (before I noticed it as missing..)
When you open my wallet to show the DL as ID the card next to it is my NRA membership card..& the cops had removed my DL to check the picture when I walked in.. right behind my DL is my HSC...
Neither were mentioned, but I know they took notice :)

DDT
02-12-2009, 11:38 AM
You DID read the "aftermath" also did you not? I did the both posts, here and there, and the letter and explained it here in my first post.

No, since you didn't bother to post in this forum I assumed they weren't relevant. If you wanted them read you should have included them in your post.

FUSIBLE
02-12-2009, 11:48 AM
I liked it, for the most part 98% were behind him.

Bend
02-12-2009, 12:26 PM
No, since you didn't bother to post in this forum I assumed they weren't relevant. If you wanted them read you should have included them in your post.

Sorry, I was not aware you needed a silver spoon. Jezz.

wildog8812
02-12-2009, 12:30 PM
It is a gun owners responsibility to know where he can an can not have his gun, even with a CCW. That being said, I do feel bad for the guy and he has my support, but it should be a lesson to all of us to know the laws and policies where we will be. There are too many people in this country that would love to get a chance to prosecute someone for excising their 2A rights.

People need to remember we are all just humans and make mistakes. In this case it seems to be he just did not know he could not carry on this campus. I am glad to see that the DA saw that and did not prosecute him; he is lucky he did not get an anti-gun DA though.

Be smart and know what you can and can not do with your guns, because if they find some way to convict you of a felony because of a mistake, game over. There goes all of your gun rights.

yellowfin
02-12-2009, 1:17 PM
So if he were to have gotten mugged or carjacked on the way to or from class that day and he was disarmed, what, do you all say "Hey, thanks for being a good boy and staying disarmed when it's appropriate" ? You know what a lot of people in IL and here have in common who obeyed the ban on CCW (virtual ban here for 70%+ of the population) because it was "the right thing to do"? They're dead. The people at VA Tech obeyed and their reward was execution. You miss the point of the entire issue if you don't see that.

NiteQwill
02-12-2009, 4:05 PM
It is a gun owners responsibility to know where he can an can not have his gun, even with a CCW. That being said, I do feel bad for the guy and he has my support, but it should be a lesson to all of us to know the laws and policies where we will be. There are too many people in this country that would love to get a chance to prosecute someone for excising their 2A rights.

People need to remember we are all just humans and make mistakes. In this case it seems to be he just did not know he could not carry on this campus. I am glad to see that the DA saw that and did not prosecute him; he is lucky he did not get an anti-gun DA though.

Be smart and know what you can and can not do with your guns, because if they find some way to convict you of a felony because of a mistake, game over. There goes all of your gun rights.
:confused::confused::confused:Are you saying he was in the wrong? He knew exactly where he can have a gun, everything was legal.

Gray Peterson
02-12-2009, 10:49 PM
Btw, folks, an FYI:

Oregon's preemption law is the 2nd strongest in the nation. The only law that's word by word stronger is Utah's.

The Oregon Legislative Counsel repeatedly stated that the Oregon University System cannot regulate firearms as the sole authority to regulate firearms is vested in the Legislative Assembly.

vrand
02-12-2009, 10:55 PM
Btw, folks, an FYI:

Oregon's preemption law is the 2nd strongest in the nation. The only law that's word by word stronger is Utah's.

The Oregon Legislative Counsel repeatedly stated that the Oregon University System cannot regulate firearms as the sole authority to regulate firearms is vested in the Legislative Assembly.

:thumbsup:

blackbox
02-13-2009, 6:31 AM
Btw, folks, an FYI:

Oregon's preemption law is the 2nd strongest in the nation. The only law that's word by word stronger is Utah's.

The Oregon Legislative Counsel repeatedly stated that the Oregon University System cannot regulate firearms as the sole authority to regulate firearms is vested in the Legislative Assembly.

Then his lawsuit over being suspended from a public school over this should be a slam dunk.

WokMaster1
02-13-2009, 7:02 AM
wonder what kind of knife he was carrying to attract the attention of the idiot who called it in.

xibunkrlilkidsx
02-13-2009, 7:08 AM
So drug possession, and the various negative inferences you can draw from that, is a casual thing as compared to the desire to defend yourself. I would say Carrie thinks wasting time, money and resources at school is ok as compared to someone who thinks time at school is a precious privilege.



If I were Carrie I would be more worried now that a potential defender of her life is removed.




What should be making Alecia feal queasy is the fact that her potential rapist now has free and clear access with one less person available to stand and defend her.

Both of the poor indoctrinated souls should be reeducated before it's too late.
It is already to late to educate people. Obama got elected.

Meplat
02-13-2009, 5:53 PM
Yes Sir!! Very Good Sir!! Right Away Sir!!:King:

Have you considered that he may have known about their "rules" but decided to exercise his rights anyway?


It is a gun owners responsibility to know where he can an can not have his gun, even with a CCW. That being said, I do feel bad for the guy and he has my support, but it should be a lesson to all of us to know the laws and policies where we will be. There are too many people in this country that would love to get a chance to prosecute someone for excising their 2A rights.

People need to remember we are all just humans and make mistakes. In this case it seems to be he just did not know he could not carry on this campus. I am glad to see that the DA saw that and did not prosecute him; he is lucky he did not get an anti-gun DA though.

Be smart and know what you can and can not do with your guns, because if they find some way to convict you of a felony because of a mistake, game over. There goes all of your gun rights.

wildog8812
02-13-2009, 6:34 PM
It is a gun owners responsibility to know where he can an can not have his gun, even with a CCW. That being said, I do feel bad for the guy and he has my support, but it should be a lesson to all of us to know the laws and policies where we will be. There are too many people in this country that would love to get a chance to prosecute someone for excising their 2A rights.

People need to remember we are all just humans and make mistakes. In this case it seems to be he just did not know he could not carry on this campus. I am glad to see that the DA saw that and did not prosecute him; he is lucky he did not get an anti-gun DA though.

Be smart and know what you can and can not do with your guns, because if they find some way to convict you of a felony because of a mistake, game over. There goes all of your gun rights.

I was not saying he was wrong, I believe that he was had good intent on what he was doing. I support him 100%. I am sorry if my statement got taken out of context. I did not mean he was wrong, it was more of a general statement to people CCW's to be careful. There are many anti-gunners who are looking for a reason to take are 2A rights away.

vrand
02-13-2009, 7:21 PM
Oregon is an interesting state... It's a melting pot of both extremes: liberals and conservatives. You can walk down the main strip at the Univ of Oregon campus and see an anti-abortion protest right next to a legalize marijuana protest. It's a trip. My fear is that as more and more Californians move up to Oregon it will continue to trend to the left.

Thanks for posting this OP, this is definitely something I will continue to follow.

Naa, wouldn't worry about that, its too wet up there :43:

Bend
02-14-2009, 10:54 AM
Naa, wouldn't worry about that, its too wet up there :43:

Only the most western 100 miles of the state are "wet". The rest is high desert and mountains. Yes, most of the lib's move into the wet side. That is also where the big cities are. Just like your state, the big cities here control the state politically.

Here is the latest letter to the .gov.

I have read with interest the news reports regarding the case of Jeff Maxwell at Western Oregon University. I understand that Mr. Maxwell was in lawful possession of a firearm, but was arrested nonetheless. This is terribly concerning to me.

As I know you are aware, the Oregon Constitution, Article 1, Section 27, provides:

Section 27. Right to bear arms; military subordinate to civil power. The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence [sic] of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power[.]

This is a clear and unequivocal right to bear arms for self defense. I understand that Mr. Maxwell is in lawful possession of a Oregon Concealed Handgun License and was then and is now authorized to possess a firearm on in a public building under ORS 166.370(3)(d).

In a March 10, 2004 letter to Representative Wayne Krieger, when he brought up the subject, the State of Oregon Legislative Counsel Committee concluded: “We interpret ORS 166.170 to mean that district school boards, Boards of Education of Community college districts and the State Board of Higher Education do not have authority to prohibit a person from carrying a firearm on the campuses of the schools, colleges and institutions for which they are responsible.” I am sure Oregon boards saw it, at the time.

Also, the University’s firearms policy (below) clearly recognizes the carry of firearms in accordance with the law. I have capitalized the word “law” for affect.

“Pursuant to OAR 580-022-0045, the Western Oregon University Campus Public Safety Department shall prohibit the possession of firearms, ammunition, explosives, dangerous chemicals, fireworks or related dangerous items on campus except where exclusively authorized by … LAW, or in the course of work (e.g., police, law enforcement services).”

Further, I understand that Mr. Maxwell has been severely disciplined by Western Oregon University for exercising this Constitutional right in a manner that fully complied with applicable law and University policy. On the facts presented, this is a clear violation of Mr. Maxwell’s civil rights and actionable under 42 USC Section 1983.

I am terribly concerned about the conduct of Western Oregon University in this matter. I urge you to take corrective action immediately and take steps to ensure it does not happen again in the future within the school systems . This case is no different than any of the terrible raced based civil rights violations that occurred regularly in the last century. We, as a people, cannot afford to selectively protect constitutional rights. We must strive to preserve every one of them, even if doing so is distasteful or politically risky.

vrand
02-14-2009, 1:01 PM
Only the most western 100 miles of the state are "wet". The rest is high desert and mountains. Yes, most of the lib's move into the wet side. That is also where the big cities are. Just like your state, the big cities here control the state politically.

Here is the latest letter to the .gov.
...


Nicely written :thumbsup:

gunsmith
02-14-2009, 1:26 PM
I hope he can sue for damages and force the ess oh bees to
shut the heck up!
grrrr, makes me very angry!

Ore. student's suspension renews gun debate

Associated Press - February 13, 2009 9:35 AM ET

MONMOUTH, Ore. (AP) - Western Oregon University officials have suspended an ex-marine with a concealed weapons permit for the rest of the spring term because he carried a handgun on campus.

Jeffrey Maxwell of Lebanon was arrested Jan. 28 for possessing a firearm in a public building, but the charge was later dropped by the Polk County district attorney.

A university spokesperson says the school has a no-weapons rule that is drawn from Oregon University System policies.

Maxwell is a 30-year-old college junior studying psychology. Before he returns to school, he must write a paper and take a mental health evaluation

He is appealing the disciplinary decision and has support of at least two Republican state legislators and the lobbying group Oregon Firearms Federation.

Information from: Statesman Journal, http://www.statesmanjournal.com

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Bend
02-14-2009, 2:15 PM
Direct link. (http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090213/NEWS/902130351)

B.D.Dubloon
02-14-2009, 2:24 PM
Then his lawsuit over being suspended from a public school over this should be a slam dunk.

He probably signed something in which he agreed to abide by the rules of the university when he did all the paperwork to attend the school. Sucks for him, but he was presumably looking to create an issue of it or he would have done a better job concealing his stuff. I agree folks should be able to cc on campus, but you can't in almost all cases.

BDD

DDT
02-14-2009, 5:07 PM
He probably signed something in which he agreed to abide by the rules of the university when he did all the paperwork to attend the school. Sucks for him, but he was presumably looking to create an issue of it or he would have done a better job concealing his stuff. I agree folks should be able to cc on campus, but you can't in almost all cases.

BDD


Even if that is true the police had no reason to detain him. He did not violate the law. Detaining him for following the law but breaking school policy is like having the police detain someone for cheating on a test.

Vtec44
02-14-2009, 6:22 PM
The comments on that article are funny, and I hope the case will in in favor of Maxwell.

Meplat
02-14-2009, 6:25 PM
If you sign a document (probably in haste, without taking the time to read and understand it) that says that if you miss one payment the mortgage company can kill you, is it binding?




He probably signed something in which he agreed to abide by the rules of the university when he did all the paperwork to attend the school. Sucks for him, but he was presumably looking to create an issue of it or he would have done a better job concealing his stuff. I agree folks should be able to cc on campus, but you can't in almost all cases.

BDD

vrand
02-14-2009, 6:42 PM
I hope he can sue for damages and force the ess oh bees to
shut the heck up!
grrrr, makes me very angry!



Yea, would be sweet :thumbsup:

chico.cm
02-14-2009, 8:28 PM
Not necessarily...
It is the same in most CA schools too. State law allows it, but most schools also require notification / permission from the campus police and/or Chancellor's Office to carry on campus. If you're caught violating this policy, they can't charge you with a crime, but they can expel you.


Not true. The law specifically exempts you from no carry on campus with a CCW. See 626.9 (L). (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=67572525021+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)

"(L) This section shall not apply to...a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm...."

Bend
02-15-2009, 9:13 AM
Not true. The law specifically exempts you from no carry on campus with a CCW. See 626.9 (L). (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=67572525021+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)

"(L) This section shall not apply to...a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm...."

Welcome to my world, schools thinking they do not need to follow State law because they are "special".

vrand
02-15-2009, 9:22 AM
Welcome to my world, schools thinking they do not need to follow State law because they are "special".

Similar down here in LA County, were only "special" people gets CCW's from sheriff baca.

Bend
02-27-2009, 7:14 PM
The latest-

http://www.katu.com/news/40443112.html

halifax
02-27-2009, 7:29 PM
Oregonians need to fight the good fight and stop this BS.

BTW, poll on the right side of the page was 71% in favor of school carry.

FrankoUSA
02-27-2009, 9:03 PM
The school has told Maxwell he must write a paper and submit to a mental evaluation before he can return to classes.