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2new
02-11-2009, 10:36 PM
What would be a good handgun to carry while camping alone in the mountains and or desert for two to four weeks? It would need to be powerful enough to stop both four and two leg critters and rugged enough to stand up to the elements including being submerged in water. You would have a long gun in camp, but say your in the river fishing, handgun gets wet, Bigfoot shows up and he's mad. Smith and Wesson 627 (8 round of 357), a more powerful revolver, Glock, 1911?

supermario
02-11-2009, 10:47 PM
I would say, definitely go with a revolver! Thats the most reliable, cant go wrong handgun. Second i would go with at least a 44cal. That should do the job with most critters, unless its a huge bear. Now if you HAD the $$, i would go with the S&W 460, its a great cal. and it also shoots 45colt and 454casull which are all good rounds for your needs. Alot of people will say get this get that, but a revolver in a large caliber is perfect for any situation.

hkdad
02-11-2009, 11:52 PM
if you want a semi-auto go with a glock 29. small, light, reliable and has enough punch of 10 rounds of 10mm.

ZirconJohn
02-12-2009, 12:19 AM
Camping?

Please don't think in terms of 'I would just want to scare an animal, NOT kill it'

Nope... 99 out of a 100 times you go camping, you will never pull your sidearm to defend your life. However, should that day come you don't want to become a meal for a pi$$ed-off bear because you just want to scare it with a .38SPL... no, no, no... take something big!

Minimum... .44MAG, I go with .454CASUL

lehn20
02-12-2009, 12:28 AM
The one you have on you, when u need it!

randy
02-12-2009, 12:31 AM
I'd go with a 10 mil glock.

TheBundo
02-12-2009, 12:49 AM
I'd go with a 10 mil glock.

REVOLVER. The .460 recommended earlier would be my choice too, NEVER a semi for this type of trip, IMO

savs2k
02-12-2009, 1:06 AM
whys that?

TheBundo
02-12-2009, 1:18 AM
Reliability. Misfires, just pull the trigger again, no 2nd hand needed. Generally more rugged if dropped, etc. Makes a better hammer too. Also, less sensitive to different ammo brands, fires them all. Ammo can be all mixed in, no problem

jlh95811
02-12-2009, 1:22 AM
Mossberg Cruiser

It's sort of a handgun.

DedEye
02-12-2009, 2:23 AM
AR/AK pistol.

m98
02-12-2009, 4:27 AM
g20 on the hip and 458/50beo Ar slung over the back. If dealing with kodiaks/brownies then 454/500s/w wheelie for the hip.

guns_and_labs
02-12-2009, 7:21 AM
Take all the choices down to the range, back off to 15-20 yards. Now sprint to the car and back a couple of times to get the heart pumping, then empty the gun at the target. Pick the largest caliber that you were able to keep all the shots in the black with, in the heaviest gun you feel comfortable carrying.

For me, that's a Glock 29 in 10mm most of the time, and an S&W 629 in .44 mag some of the time.

I have a .460, love it, but I can't keep it on target for all six shots rapid fire at a charging target. And even the mighty .460 won't stop a charge if you miss.

tmuller
02-12-2009, 7:27 AM
Look at S&W mountain guns, a little lighter for all day carry. I use a 629 mountain gun, it's a 4", and pair that with my Winchester 1894 in .44 and I'm good to go. I used to use .41mag but swapped out because of ammo availability.

live2offroad
02-12-2009, 7:40 AM
I was gonna say .44 mag..

But:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2/Wockman/random-322.jpg


Ok so maybe the S&W .500 :eek:

BillCA
02-12-2009, 7:41 AM
The problem with an extremely powerful handgun is that it can give you the impression you don't need a rifle. If a bear gets annoyed with me in the woods, I want a .30-30 or .308 handy and ready. Or a 12-ga with slugs.

One of the rigs I take camping is a 6-inch .41 Magnum loaded with 210gr JSP ammo @1300fps. The long barrel helps tame the recoil and recover between shots.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/BillCA/Hobby/nf/M57/M57s_holster.jpg

A .44 Mag works if that suits you and you can deal with the recoil. Some folks have taken smaller black bear with the .357 cartridge, but in a head-on charge I want something more robust.

The important thing to remember is that if you are in bear country you never want to be very far away from an adequate rifle. And your black poodle-shooter isn't one of those.

guns_and_labs
02-12-2009, 7:56 AM
The important thing to remember is that if you are in bear country you never want to be very far away from an adequate rifle. And your black poodle-shooter isn't one of those.


Unless you're fending off attacking poodles.

eccvets
02-12-2009, 7:59 AM
454casulle or .50AE or .500sw to protect against anything significant!

JBird33
02-12-2009, 8:31 AM
I'm plenty comfortable with my 10mm for any kind of critter in California.

RedDawn
02-12-2009, 9:19 AM
I'm comfortable with my Glock 20 10mm for camping. It's much lighter than my S&W 460V, so carrying it around isn't as much of a chore.

Beelzy
02-12-2009, 9:37 AM
This.......next question?? :D

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c82/beelzy/SW500A1.jpg

JTROKS
02-12-2009, 10:02 AM
You can't beat a 5.5" stainless Ruger Redhawk in 44 magnum. It will shoot the heavy 320 grain bullets if there are big bruins in the area. In CA the only 4 legged creatures I'd be afraid of would be mountain lions, then coyotes or feral dogs. Anything that can dispatch a mountain lion will take care of the lesser threats and the two legged variants. I would be comfortable with my Ruger GP100 w/ 6" barrel or even a 4" barrel. Load up with 158 grain JSPs for an all around load. Bring some 38 spls too for plinking away at rocks and small game.

atavuss
02-12-2009, 5:13 PM
I carry a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull. I hope I never have to shoot it without hearing protection!

2new
02-12-2009, 5:17 PM
Thanks for all the input! I guess the S&W 617 22LR I ordered won't be up to the task! I do like the S&W's, so maybe something in 460 or 500, even if it's only 5 rounds. As it has been said, it would only be used to fight your way back to your long gun.

wildhawker
02-12-2009, 5:23 PM
I would say, definitely go with a revolver! Thats the most reliable, cant go wrong handgun. Second i would go with at least a 44cal. That should do the job with most critters, unless its a huge bear. Now if you HAD the $$, i would go with the S&W 460, its a great cal. and it also shoots 45colt and 454casull which are all good rounds for your needs. Alot of people will say get this get that, but a revolver in a large caliber is perfect for any situation.

Agreed, 100%

Now I need to schedule a camping trip with the wife so I can justify the purchase of an x-frame 460 :D

stich
02-12-2009, 5:36 PM
See my post : Shot a Desert Eagle Today" :thumbsup::D

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2009, 5:50 PM
A wheelgun for sure. 41 mag, 44 mag or larger for bear. A .22mag is a good revolver to hunt mountain lion with so, any of the above revolver calibers will do fine for any threats found in the California wilderness. I've heard that bigfoot sometimes wears body armor so, shot placement is key!

biscuitninja
02-12-2009, 5:56 PM
When we go, my wife carries a .44 mag and I carry a slighly modified Mosin Nagant with yellow tip or silver tip. This was in Alaska, so in CA there might not be a big cause for HUGE calibers... but still, i would not want to be caught off guard.
-bix

lawrence29
02-12-2009, 6:21 PM
I almost stumbled upon some hidden agri-patch (1 click S) while hiking, rangers/cops found em few days later armed and fled. I think you should also worry about these two legged dangerious 'primates' I used to just carry a knife or two, now I think I need at lease 3 mags and a semi-auto.

twopatch
02-12-2009, 7:05 PM
22 mag is the minimum in ca. The 10mm is a lot better. 44-454-50 etc. is overkill in Cal. IMO In Alaska,Canada etc. .454,with a .338 gets the nod!

PorkLover
02-12-2009, 7:16 PM
taurus judge loaded with slugs......

gun4fun
02-12-2009, 7:19 PM
taurus judge loaded with slugs......

how we gonna get that here in california?

Hamster16
02-12-2009, 7:43 PM
sorry for my lack of knowledge but do you guys think a 7.62x54r round from a mosin negant will stop a bear? it seems like a powerful round to me but i have no hunting experience at all. i just thinking about bang for the buck and im very accurate with my 91/30 at long distance. btw i use 148 grain steel core russian ammo. otherwise ill just stick to my model 29-2 and 44 mag rounds.

Quiet
02-12-2009, 7:48 PM
taurus judge loaded with slugs......

Will penetration less than the .45LongColt ammo you could've used.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41_3.htm

how we gonna get that here in california?
Change CA law on how it defines a SBS.

twopatch
02-12-2009, 7:52 PM
with steel core I would head shoot the bear. the bullet will not open up like a hunting round. By the way ,don't worry about black bears. Its the tweekers,and growers that will give you problems. With a couger following a distent 2nd.

bigchelis
02-12-2009, 8:23 PM
The obious choice is a Glock 20 or Glock 29.
10mm is more powerfull than the 357magnum, but less than a 44magnum.

10 rounds of 200g bullets at 1200 plus feet per second, plus you could use a Dillon 9x25 barrel that pushes a 90g bullet at over 2k feet per second.

Hamster16
02-12-2009, 8:37 PM
with steel core I would head shoot the bear. the bullet will not open up like a hunting round. By the way ,don't worry about black bears. Its the tweekers,and growers that will give you problems. With a couger following a distent 2nd.

i do a lot of dirtbike riding in mojave cal city and jawbone near red rock. once i rode in rosamond and came across a tweaker camp made from an old school bus and an old camper. i had some rocks thrown at me so i kept riding fast but for reasons like that i worry that they may not have rocks next time so i bought a cheap hi-point c9 to open carry while im riding. not the best gun but i dont want to carry my p220 in case i crash. id rather scuff up a hi point than a sig. if im up in the sierras ill carry the 29-2 unless im hiking then ill carry my mosin.

Pistolwhipped
02-12-2009, 8:44 PM
Smith and Wesson 500. No explaination needed.:43:

Asap
02-12-2009, 9:14 PM
Automatic pistols are good tactical and target guns, but for outdoors and defense against bears, i would go with the big revolver

Hamster16
02-12-2009, 9:27 PM
Automatic pistols are good tactical and target guns, but for outdoors and defense against bears, i would go with the big revolver

i agree go with an 88 magnum "it shoots through schools"
sorry with all this revolver talk i couldent help but remember that line.

7x57
02-12-2009, 10:43 PM
Reliability. Misfires, just pull the trigger again, no 2nd hand needed. Generally more rugged if dropped, etc. Makes a better hammer too. Also, less sensitive to different ammo brands, fires them all. Ammo can be all mixed in, no problem

Also consider that in terms of four-legged animals, there is a pretty good chance you'll get one or zero shots before the animal is on you--the usual advice for grizzlies is that either you draw the moment you become aware of the bear or you might as well not carry a gun. That means you are likely to be using the gun from rather unusual positions. So let's talk about revolvers if the bear gets first move, or if you don't stop him in the charge. A revolver will not jam if you limp-wrist, as you may well do if you are already on the ground. It will not go out of battery if you can't do much more than press the muzzle against the bear and fire (or if you just aimed point-blank and then the bear pushed against you).

And someone here posted a scary story of someone who had their mag eject while scuffling with a bear. They got one more shot which didn't deter the attack, if they'd had a "CA safe" handgun with a mag lock they would not have even gotten that (friends with rifles apparently found him in time). But Revolvers have no mag to eject at the accidental press of a button, and swinging the cylinder out is far, far less likely to happen accidentally (I am inclined to say impossible, but I suppose it happened once in the history of the world).

And the self-defense advice I know of is that if you have to shoot from the hip, you should cant an automatic away from your body so the slide does not jam against your clothing. That's not something I want to worry about in a scuffle either. I suppose a cylinder could jam with clothing, but I've never heard of it happening.

After pushing through chaparral this year and getting covered in bits of dried wood and dust, I also have to say that I worry about the reliability of an automatic when gunked up. Particularly with an external hammer cocked & locked...my .45 holster has a thumb strap that covers the open space between the hammer and frame, I think that's a very fine idea for carrying an automatic in the field.

As far as cartridges go, 10mm is about the only plausible field defense cartridge for an automatic. It's about equivalent to a .41 magnum. Notice that people that live in brown bear country regard .44 mag as the minimum. Now, in typical factory loads, .44 mag is not vastly more powerful than .41 mag. But automatics, being recoil operated, are pretty much limited to typical loads, or not too far from it--the recoil and OAL are limited by the operation of the action, and even with heavier springs there are limits to what you can do. By contrast revolver cartridges such as .44 mag are tremendously flexible, especially in strong long-cylinder guns such as Redhawks. There is no comparison between what Garrett can do with .44 mag and 10mm loads. Garrett claims his customers report penetration back to about the hips with a frontal shot on a grizzly, and I don't think you can get anywhere near that with 10mm. It's not that 10mm isn't a good cartridge, it's that it's a different thing fired from a different gun.

All that said in favor of wheelguns, I agree that CA does not have brownies and it *does* have drug farms in the outback. You have to make a choice. Big cats are not powerfully built, the automatic is probably fine in terms of cartridge. It still has all the reliability disadvantages already mentioned. If the problem is drug growers defending their plot, then of course an automatic is likely to be the better choice--that's a self-defense situation, and self-defense is what automatics are optimized for. Bear-stopping power means very slow follow-up shots due to excessive recoil, don't forget.

Wheel guns aren't the answer to everything, just the answer to totally reliable delivery of very heavy bullets from very powerful cartridges.

7x57

TheBundo
02-13-2009, 1:18 AM
sorry for my lack of knowledge but do you guys think a 7.62x54r round from a mosin negant will stop a bear? it seems like a powerful round to me but i have no hunting experience at all. i just thinking about bang for the buck and im very accurate with my 91/30 at long distance. btw i use 148 grain steel core russian ammo. otherwise ill just stick to my model 29-2 and 44 mag rounds.

Absolutely, you 1, bear 0, unless he gets the jump on you, you miss, or don't hit him well enough and get reloaded fast enough. A 30-30 will drop a bear, so the more powerful 7.62x54r certainly will too. Try to make the 1st shot a good one, though, because if he's charging, those guys can cover ground FAST

yellowfin
02-13-2009, 1:23 AM
The lighter weight of the Glock will have you not say forget it and leave it at home. 10mm in the holster beats .44 in the safe any day of the week. You probably also won't be worried about getting it nicked up or rusted, again leaving it at home. Lots of bear have been killed with .30-30's because that's the rifle that's handiest for people to lug around a lot AND it gets the job done. If it wasn't there, it wouldn't be getting the job done, and a lot of the people you see carrying .30-30's have shot that for decades so they're going to be good with it.

m98
02-13-2009, 2:02 AM
Wheel guns aren't the answer to everything, just the answer to totally reliable delivery of very heavy bullets from very powerful cartridges.

7x57


+1.....woodland farmers armed with ak's wouldn't be very scared of a victim armed with only a wheelgun....especially chambered in a powerful and overkill caliber for the 2 legged vermins. I had a relative a few years back who was confronted by a group of farmers armed with ak's and black rifles. My relative was hunting with a shotty(and ofcourse to make it even scarier, nudered to only 2+1 rds). Well, they weren't afraid of him for anything. They confronted him at gun point, took his ID/info and threatened him if he said something then bad things will happen to him/family.

Bottomline, the shotty is no different than ANY Magnum wheelgun, even though the shotty is still better than any wheelgun. (only in the movies that they make the Big wheelguns Bada**)...Lucky they didn't kill the guy on the spot.

m98
02-13-2009, 2:09 AM
The important thing to remember is that if you are in bear country you never want to be very far away from an adequate rifle. And your black poodle-shooter isn't one of those.


I disagree with the saying " black poodle shooter"....Not all black rifles are meant to be poodle shooters. You must still be living back in the oldn' days when.....Well, the AR platform in the present time isn't just limited to 5.56cal. Really looks like you're not up to speed yet, do ya need a full update?

Californio
02-13-2009, 12:46 PM
Revolver in a "4" caliber and a lever rifle that shoots the same stuff.

Fate
02-13-2009, 1:25 PM
Try to make the 1st shot a good one, though, because if he's charging, those guys can cover ground FASTI will personally attest to that (bluff charged once and chased once).

But in CA, I'd be more worried about humans than anything. Mountain lion would be worry #2, but with those, you won't see them until they're on your back, biting thru your neck. All the gun in the world won't help you then.

guns_and_labs
02-13-2009, 1:37 PM
I disagree with the saying " black poodle shooter"....Not all black rifles are meant to be poodle shooters. You must still be living back in the oldn' days when.....Well, the AR platform in the present time isn't just limited to 5.56cal. Really looks like you're not up to speed yet, do ya need a full update?

No, a poodle shooter is still a poodle shooter, and is either use-specific or caliber-specific, not AR-specific.

Google and wikipedia define "poodle shooter" in different cites as referring either to:

1. varmint rifles used to shoot prairie poodles, another term of endearment for prairie dogs, or
2. a derogatory reference to the 5.56 or .223 cartridge, specifically dating back to its use in the M16 in the Vietnam era and later.

And neither is sufficient defense against a charging bear... wouldn't you agree?

Yes, the .50 Beowulf, the .458 SOCOM, and host of other new players would suffice against a bear, if you happen to have one of those uppers and found some ammunition for it. And an AR-10 in .308 would PROBABLY get the job done.

Personally, I still like a .45-70 with Garrett loads in a lever action or 1 oz slugs in a pump shotgun as my stopping gun -- though my Blaser in .350 RemMag isn't bad either and .45 Blaser would be even better, I'm told. Definitely not a poodle shooter.

m98
02-13-2009, 11:48 PM
google and wiki don't know the full details of black rifles unless searched with a specific. I think it's "gun racist" or sterotype a rifle. It's like, for me when I think of "wheelgun" I get the thought of a .38spl revolver. Not all revolvers are chambered for 38spl as not all ar's shoot 556.
And yes I do agree that the 556 is such a poor choice for a charging bear but I did not say that the 556 was the ticket for the charging bear.

"Yes, the .50 Beowulf, the .458 SOCOM, and host of other new players would suffice against a bear, if you happen to have one of those uppers and found some ammunition for it. And an AR-10 in .308 would PROBABLY get the job done."

you just said it, a present time "black poodle shooter is capable of such task". And the thing is that if the person decides he/she wants to pack a poodle shooter chambered in big bore that person could always look around as it can always be found. Ammo, the same+reload.

trojanwar2
02-14-2009, 12:24 AM
Definitely a Glock 20! :thumbsup:

CABilly
02-14-2009, 5:49 AM
A .44 mag, with a carbine pump/lever to go with it.

BillCA
02-14-2009, 6:33 AM
I disagree with the saying " black poodle shooter"....Not all black rifles are meant to be poodle shooters. You must still be living back in the oldn' days when.....Well, the AR platform in the present time isn't just limited to 5.56cal. Really looks like you're not up to speed yet, do ya need a full update?

First, don't disparage people's knowledge when you don't know the extent of their knowledge - or don't understand the meaning of what they're saying.

"Black Poodle Shooter" is used in reference to the 5.56mm AR platform. I'd probably extend this to both of the 6mm variants as well, since I wouldn't try shooting bear with a .243 Winchester if I could help it.


It's like, for me when I think of "wheelgun" I get the thought of a .38spl revolver. Not all revolvers are chambered for 38spl as not all ar's shoot 556.


So you're saying you transferred your own particular bias and limitations on weapons knowledge to someone else. :p

The AR-10 platform in .308 would certainly do the job on black and most brown bear. The rapid fire capability would be a significant plus.

Having watched a friend shoot a standing brown bear four times (and solid hits) with an 8" .44 Mag at about 35 yards and only p*** off the bear I can tell you that in known Brown or Grizzly country, I'd feel underarmed with a bazooka!

360PA
02-14-2009, 6:35 AM
Reliability. Misfires, just pull the trigger again, no 2nd hand needed. Generally more rugged if dropped, etc. Makes a better hammer too. Also, less sensitive to different ammo brands, fires them all. Ammo can be all mixed in, no problem

Using this logic, wouldn't law enforcement want all these characteristics in a sidearm? Why do they find semi-autos acceptable? Of course they wouldn't need the large caliber, but everything else?

Paul
02-14-2009, 6:43 AM
I've been camping in California's deserts for +20 years spending at least one weekend a month out there. The only worries I've had is an occasional visit by a two legged desert rat. For them a .38 or better seems to work - normally just the display of the weapon is good enough.

7x57
02-14-2009, 9:53 AM
Lots of bear have been killed with .30-30's because that's the rifle that's handiest for people to lug around a lot AND it gets the job done. If it wasn't there, it wouldn't be getting the job done, and a lot of the people you see carrying .30-30's have shot that for decades so they're going to be good with it.

There are bears and there are bears. Most .30-30 bear hunting I've heard of was black bear, or subsistence hunting in the far north (which has been done with anything that will shoot cheaply). Brown bears of any subspecies are a very different proposition. That said....

A .30-30 is preferable to any handgun. Besides being a rifle doing what rifles do better, the cartridge is customarily loaded with heavy-for-caliber 175-ish grain blunt bullets. Incidentally, the usual advice when you need more stopping power in the same cartridge is to go with heavier, blunter bullets. 7.62x39 isn't all that different in paper ballistics, but the cartridge and the rifles that fire it are designed for light bullets, and thus it would be a far poorer choice. On varmit-sized game, such as people <grin>, it wouldn't make any difference.

But there is another reason .30-30 is fairly popular for bear, I'm told--the guys who hunt bear with hounds don't really want excess penetration, lest they kill the dog they can't see on the other side of the bear.

Finally, hunting is simply different than field-defense. The latter calls for a lot more gun. It's not so different from the fact that .22 rimfire is quite useful for assassination, in spite of being a totally inadequate caliber for self-defense. Alaska guides typically carry a *lot* more gun than their bear-hunting clients, because their scenario is defensive and not predatory.

I've never heard of a PH backing up a client with a .30-30 anywhere, though I'm sure it's happened. Usually you hear of .338 win mag, .375, and heavier.

7x57

7x57
02-14-2009, 9:59 AM
The AR-10 platform in .308 would certainly do the job on black and most brown bear. The rapid fire capability would be a significant plus.


Fair enough, though if the game is semi-auto my choice is a BAR in .338 Win Mag; that's the heaviest round a sporting semi-auto is available for, and the cartridge seems to be highly regarded among the right people. For all I know you can get AR-10s with uppers in bigger calibers than .308, but I'm not that familiar with the platform.

The general advice I see for minimum brownie cartridges is that .30-06 is the minimum acceptable caliber. It should be loaded with the heaviest .30 bullets, 180gr or preferably better, which is why I think they specifically do *not* name .308--.308 is designed to be within a hair of .30-06 with 150gr bullets. Its performance drops off significantly with heavier bullets because it doesn't have the case capacity.

The stories I have read of actual bear encounters indicate that you're quite likely to only get one shot, semi-auto or not. I think you're better off ensuring the cartridge is adequate first before trying shoot faster.

7x57

HowardW56
02-14-2009, 10:47 AM
.41 or .44 Magnum... I prefer a S&W model 58...

tortoisethunder
02-14-2009, 11:58 AM
What would be a good handgun to carry while camping alone in the mountains and or desert for two to four weeks? It would need to be powerful enough to stop both four and two leg critters and rugged enough to stand up to the elements including being submerged in water. You would have a long gun in camp, but say your in the river fishing, handgun gets wet, Bigfoot shows up and he's mad. Smith and Wesson 627 (8 round of 357), a more powerful revolver, Glock, 1911?

My .02 cents. If weight is a factor, then the largest revolver you can get your hands on. I have a S&W 500 and that might be a little large for CA but will get the job done. If weight isn't a factor go with a lever action 30/30. They make ones with different barrel sizes, and they can be suprisingly fairly small and compact and the Marlin is tough and reliable. You can use iron sights and be accurate out to 100 yds.

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 10:38 PM
I would say, definitely go with a revolver! Thats the most reliable, cant go wrong handgun. Second i would go with at least a 44cal. That should do the job with most critters, unless its a huge bear.


HUGE bears occur only in Alaska. In the PRC a .44 mag should be all you'd EVER need. Something like a 629 in a 4" barrel would be ideal. Even then, I'd opt for the 165 gr. Cor Bon JHPs 'cuz the truth of the matter is your most likely defense will be against a two legged critter. You might want to carry another six rounds in a speed loader. Gawdayum I like these discussions!!

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 10:46 PM
The important thing to remember is that if you are in bear country you never want to be very far away from an adequate rifle. And your black poodle-shooter isn't one of those.


This man knows of what he speaks. If "bear country" is Shasta County then an '06 with 180 gr. HPs will gitter done but if "bear country" is Alaska then your basic long gun is along the lines of a 375 H&H.

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 10:47 PM
Unless you're fending off attacking poodles.


I'll tell ya, I just flat out HATE them attack'n poodles!!:D

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 10:49 PM
Bring some 38 spls too for plinking away at rocks and small game.

EXCUSE ME!! Do you ACTUALLY shoot at rocks?

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 10:54 PM
I've heard that bigfoot sometimes wears body armor so, shot placement is key!


Geeze, I'd never heard that before. I'll be put'n in some range time with my 454 Casull before head'n up north for bear hunt'n next fall.

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 10:59 PM
sorry for my lack of knowledge but do you guys think a 7.62x54r round from a mosin negant will stop a bear?


I think that describes a 30-06 round and one must remember that EVERY dangerous game on the planet, including rhino, elephant, cape buffalo, and hippo has been taken with an '06. That isen't to say this old fart is going to go out and attempt to duplicate the feat just to prove the first time was no fluke, you understand!!:D

Kid Stanislaus
02-14-2009, 11:11 PM
Mountain lion would be worry #2, but with those, you won't see them until they're on your back, biting thru your neck. All the gun in the world won't help you then.

When walking in Mt. Lion country have a holloween mask and wear it on the back of your head. They can't tell the difference and the "face" keeps them away.

BillCA
02-15-2009, 6:26 AM
Fair enough, though if the game is semi-auto my choice is a BAR in .338 Win Mag; that's the heaviest round a sporting semi-auto is available for, and the cartridge seems to be highly regarded among the right people. For all I know you can get AR-10s with uppers in bigger calibers than .308, but I'm not that familiar with the platform.

The general advice I see for minimum brownie cartridges is that .30-06 is the minimum acceptable caliber. It should be loaded with the heaviest .30 bullets, 180gr or preferably better, which is why I think they specifically do *not* name .308--.308 is designed to be within a hair of .30-06 with 150gr bullets. Its performance drops off significantly with heavier bullets because it doesn't have the case capacity.

The stories I have read of actual bear encounters indicate that you're quite likely to only get one shot, semi-auto or not. I think you're better off ensuring the cartridge is adequate first before trying shoot faster.

7x57
When you mentioned BAR, I was going to agree because I was thinking of the M1918... :D
http://www.paper-dragon.com/1939/images/bar1918a1.jpg


In my 20's, I went b'ar huntin' with my boss. The joke was that at 6'8" and 265 lbs, he could go bear hunting with a hickory switch. :D We camped the first day and had dinner before dark. Just after cleaning up, at dusk, a bear invited himself for a late dinner and came out of the bush whuffling and snorting. This was in Southern Oregon about 2 miles north of the border. And it was a brown bear -- with attitude. The bear stood up and made himself damn imposing. Being as boss-man had funded the trip and wanted first shot, we let him. Besides, I was waaay too busy grabbing my '03A3 and finding a tree to hide behind. Boss unlimbered an 8-3/8" Model 29 and ripped off five rounds at about 35-38 feet. After that... we had one seriously pissed off Bruin! The bear went to all fours as my crosshairs lined up on his shoulder. Almost simultaneously our other hunter fired his 12-gauge slug gun just as the 03A3 bucked into my shoulder. Bear down, but not out. He was flailing at the ground with front paws so another 180gr Winchester Power Point launched from the Springfield and hit just behind the head and lodged in a farside rib. Four .44 Mag hits, a 12ga slug that clipped the spine and my first '06 round hit which hit both lungs and broke a rib exiting... and he still needed one more to shut him off. All of this took maybe 30 seconds max. Next time, I'll bring a Bazooka.

As to the .308, a neighbor of mine has a Navy .308 chambered M1 Garand with which he's take bear without too much trouble. But I suspect those were all blackies and not the brown bears.

In the lower 48 I'm comfortable with the .41 Magnum being "good enough" for most encounters I'm likely to have. I don't expect to meet brown or grizzly bears any more, nor elk or buffalo. Anything smaller than those I think the .41 will handle just fine.

Tarn_Helm
02-15-2009, 2:01 PM
What would be a good handgun to carry while camping alone in the mountains and or desert for two to four weeks? It would need to be powerful enough to stop both four and two leg critters and rugged enough to stand up to the elements including being submerged in water. You would have a long gun in camp, but say your in the river fishing, handgun gets wet, Bigfoot shows up and he's mad. Smith and Wesson 627 (8 round of 357), a more powerful revolver, Glock, 1911?

In semiauto: Glock 20, loaded with heaviest, hottest rounds available.

In revolver: minimum is .44 Magnum, loaded with hot, heavy rounds. (http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/-strse-Grizzly-Cartridge-cln-44-MAG/Categories.bok)
:thumbsup:

Trendkill
02-15-2009, 5:17 PM
Using this logic, wouldn't law enforcement want all these characteristics in a sidearm? Why do they find semi-autos acceptable? Of course they wouldn't need the large caliber, but everything else?

Prolly cuzz they need 15 rounds to hit a target once....

JK of course

happy_gunner
02-15-2009, 6:59 PM
Using this logic, wouldn't law enforcement want all these characteristics in a sidearm? Why do they find semi-autos acceptable? Of course they wouldn't need the large caliber, but everything else?

Capacity comes in play. Most semi handgun are very reliable for daily use in the urban environment. Sometimes not saying it happens alot, a LEO might engage in a gun fight where he/she is trying to getting behind cover as he/she is trying to shoot to eliminate the treat, shots are not as accurate as one would think, so more shots are required sometimes. If you never been in a situation where you're being shoot at, it's hard to understand

Think about this and this has happened before in a gunfight, the cop is using a wheel gun, and the bad guy is using a semi-auto, cop with 38spl only has 6 shots before he needs to reload and he usually carry two speed loaders because the pouch only has space for two, the bad guy has high-cap mag, which before the ban is almost all high cap, bad guy has more ammo with one mag than cop do in two. So cop with 38spl and two speed loader 18rds, bad guy with 9mm (usually) and high cap 15rds minimum.

To the OP, if you're camping and hiking in the back woods and dessert, I would be more worried about the growers and guys who play dueling banjos, so I would get a Glock or Sig in .40S&W or .45ACP

metalhead357
02-15-2009, 10:31 PM
Well......... Figuring all the North american Natives could kill a bear with a spear and people still hunt them with bow & arrow..... Methinks yer' all wimps:p:D

Seriously,
The gun is only HALF the equation. The Biggist Damm pistol in the world aint gonna help you if you freeze or you cant shoot well. Target shooting aint live action shooting, and live action shooting aint hunting. So get whatever training you can but above all-- become profecient with WAHTEVER gun you choose to use.

When I started hunting years and years and years ago the only pistol I had was a 9mm. Probably woulda just pissed the bugger off...but we live and we learn! Iw ent to a .45 then to a .357, now ya' wont catch me in the woods without a .44mag if I'm in bear country.

Trendkill
02-16-2009, 10:21 AM
What gun (caliber)do you reckon they took down the Tiger with at the SF zoo???


I bet it was a 454 casull....er....maybe a 500 SW....yup.;)

guns_and_labs
02-16-2009, 10:50 AM
What gun (caliber)do you reckon they took down the Tiger with at the SF zoo???


I bet it was a 454 casull....er....maybe a 500 SW....yup.;)

Proof positive that the best gun to have is the one you have on you.

But you know they must've been wishing for a shotgun.

homerm14
02-16-2009, 11:08 AM
What gun (caliber)do you reckon they took down the Tiger with at the SF zoo???


I bet it was a 454 casull....er....maybe a 500 SW....yup.;)

Multiple hits with 180 grain 40 S&W as well as 12 gage buck shot. The autopsy report confirmed it was one lucky shot with a 40 that killed the tiger.

bsg
02-17-2009, 6:42 PM
just take chuck norris with you on your camping trips.

Mr D
02-17-2009, 7:48 PM
I know its not Cali, but this guy was lucky!!!!!!!!! He was attacked in his tent. The other hunters shot the bear and the guys foot.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_polar_bear_attack.htm

ilikerugers
02-18-2009, 1:32 AM
What would be a good handgun to carry while camping alone in the mountains and or desert for two to four weeks? It would need to be powerful enough to stop both four and two leg critters and rugged enough to stand up to the elements including being submerged in water. You would have a long gun in camp, but say your in the river fishing, handgun gets wet, Bigfoot shows up and he's mad. Smith and Wesson 627 (8 round of 357), a more powerful revolver, Glock, 1911?

I've put some thought to this, as I hike off-trail in the Emigrant Wilderness alone. These things get heavy after a few hours, I mean it's a pain in the ***** carrying them. What do you think of my solution? Leather flap holster strapped to my hip pack, 4" stainless GP100, first three rounds of 180 gn Federal JSP (about 675 ft lbs for placement and control) and the second three rounds of 180 gn Cor-bons (solid lead, about 850 ft lbs for deep penetration). I prefer to not carry a semi-auto in the woods because I may not want to leave a trail of cookie crumbs. What do you think?

Synergy
02-18-2009, 1:59 AM
I have heard a lot of Glock responses. I'm not a Glock fan, don't own one. Probably never will. I dont know how they are battle tested. I have been backpacking and dealt with rain, snow, mud, etc. I know my 1911 will always work. 100 years of service and still going strong. Plus the .45 ACP has great stopping power, for most critters and humans that say "you shure du have a purty mouth!"

Bardia
02-18-2009, 1:21 PM
s&w 500

fusionstar
02-18-2009, 1:26 PM
44 magnum MINIMUM in grizzly country, you can pull off 10mm in black bear and mt lion country.

44 Magnum
454 Casull
500 S&W

pretty much anything more powerful than a 44mag is good to go.

paintballergb
02-18-2009, 4:13 PM
I couldn't tell you "the best". I just always take my .357 revolver.

stormy_clothing
02-18-2009, 4:57 PM
These discussions are way out in left field, when planning a camping trip learn how to avoid Bears firstoff then how to escape them then and only then should you try to fight one. And spending $$$ on an extra gun for the remotist possibility that could happen see the first two steps. Now if your talking about taking a gun for the unknown than it should be the one you usually use and shoot. I owned a bunch of glocks last year and I finally settled on the g21sf becuse of ammo power and cost plus availability and I was able to shoot slot better with the smaller frame. My dad has both the 460 and 500 ami g many others in the hot loads and if I was looking for trouble yes I would use those but you want to stay away from trouble. If you really must have a knockdown round buy 10 rounds from MagSafe they have some really high power 45 that's still cheaper than 500 on average. And I don't know what these revolver people are going with relibility issues. Your only going out for a few weeks and glocks being used in Iraq survive that long without being cleaned without issues, unless you also plan on doing lots of shooting then too in which case the cleaning kit is alot lighter than all the bullets you'll use.

Sutcliffe
02-18-2009, 5:12 PM
Your choice of .357, 44 mag or .45 colt. I like the colt cause it's so damned easy to shoot well and is about all you need for anything other than grizzly. Single actions are accurate, easy to shoot and rugged. Adjustable sights are great, but fixed sights are fine if you spend time with your gun and load.

happy_gunner
02-18-2009, 8:21 PM
you know, if you're worried about bears, why not get a bear spray?? it will work for bears and humans

hkdad
02-19-2009, 9:39 PM
Yes Glocks are very forgiving and useful in Iraq, but its all thin skinned game. You are talking apples and oranges. A square hit with a Glock ,you're target won't git up and eat you. If you are fishing in Alaska, you may not get a second shot, Brownies are fast

i agree with you, but OP is not going to alaska. a glock 20 or 21 will be more than enough to kill 2 or 4 legged freaks while camping in CA.

2new
02-20-2009, 6:25 PM
Everyone, thank you for your input. Sounds like you can't go wrong with a 44mag with a 2 1/2 or 3 inch barrel, or a 460 in 2 3/4 or 5 inch. Should have plenty of stopping power and a little cool factor. However, as many have posted the real threat is of the two leg variety, so maybe a Guncrafter Industries 50 GI would be an appropriate compromise.

DedEye
02-21-2009, 4:50 PM
I'm still thinking you should get an AK pistol for camping.

supermario
02-21-2009, 10:36 PM
How about this, when you go camping or scouting for a camping spot, ask the local retail store that sells camping/hunting equipment etc. Ask him what would be the best to take. I bet you 100% he would NOT say a Glock!!
I been hunting and camping every year since i was a kid. A revolver is not the answer to everything but it is for the emergency camping handgun! Trust me, take a poll and see how many people actually go camping in the great outdoors where bears live!! Black Bears are dangerous and have attacked humans frequently. In the Angeles Crest Mountains, bear attacks were a frequent occurance years back! GLOCK is not the answer for all situations! Ask every hunter, what would they carry as a backup weapon Besides their rifles and they will say REVOLVER! Anyways good luck and I wouldnt worry too much, most critters are scared of humans anyways..

pullnshoot25
02-21-2009, 10:44 PM
.44mag ALL THE WAY!