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View Full Version : Here's something for those with REGISTERED AW's to think about


Tallship
02-11-2009, 5:59 PM
I just found out a little interesting fact at the range today. If you call 911 as a RP (reporting party) a note will come up on the dispatcher's screen that you have an AW! So if you ever call to report a crime in progress that is not taking place at your residence, do not in any circumstance go outside your residence with any type of weapon. Most dispatchers are trained to disregard the note if you are the RP, but it has happened that they told the officer that you, the RP had an AW and that message has been garbled.

Also, for all of you who thought that when you registered your AW, it was just going in some dusty file, oops.

Geodetic
02-11-2009, 6:12 PM
:kest:

dustoff31
02-11-2009, 6:26 PM
This shouldn't be a surprize to anyone. Why would any organization collect information if they had no intention of using it for some purpose?

badicedog
02-11-2009, 6:29 PM
Yeah, nothing new. I found this out back a few years back. One of my co workers was going thru a bad divorce, a domestic violence call was made because of a bad argument. The swat team showed up because he had reg AW in his home. Who said big brother isn't watching???:eek:

QuarterBoreGunner
02-11-2009, 6:50 PM
Not news.
Still interesting, but not news.

CSACANNONEER
02-11-2009, 7:08 PM
Same thing can happen if you've ever DROSed a handgun.

6172crew
02-11-2009, 7:20 PM
Not news.
Still interesting, but not news.

Yep, thats the point of the .gov knowing who has what. Id like to know if NFA stuff shows up or not, anyone want to be the test case? I know cops are not supposed to run stuff without reason but I wonder if they show up like a AW or handgun?

bwiese
02-11-2009, 7:29 PM
I hope the cruiser's MDT has a big enough display to list all of mine, I'd hate to have the cops have to scroll to a 2nd or 3rd screen.

<bseg>

Blue
02-11-2009, 7:32 PM
So that's why the cops show up so fast when I dial 911....

G17GUY
02-11-2009, 7:50 PM
So that's why the cops show up so fast when I dial 911....

That or the fact you were yelling "I HAVE A GUN FOO".:p

QuarterBoreGunner
02-11-2009, 7:51 PM
I'd hate to have the cops have to scroll to a 2nd or 3rd screen.

Now that's funny.

RANGER295
02-11-2009, 7:59 PM
Supposedly the same thing happens for those of us with an FFL-03 (C&R)… at least this is what I have been told. That wouldn’t show what you had, just that you probably have a lot of weapons and supposedly in some places increases response time.

CSACANNONEER
02-11-2009, 8:00 PM
Supposedly the same thing happens for those of us with an FFL-03 (C&R)… at least this is what I have been told. That wouldn’t show what you had, just that you probably have a lot of weapons and supposedly in some places increases response time.

No. You just live next to a donut shop.:D

leelaw
02-11-2009, 8:02 PM
I just found out a little interesting fact at the range today. If you call 911 as a RP (reporting party) a note will come up on the dispatcher's screen that you have an AW! So if you ever call to report a crime in progress that is not taking place at your residence, do not in any circumstance go outside your residence with any type of weapon. Most dispatchers are trained to disregard the note if you are the RP, but it has happened that they told the officer that you, the RP had an AW and that message has been garbled.

Who told you this?

Are you suggesting that if Leelaw calls up 911 and just says "hey, I'm leelaw and just saw a DUI/crash/robbery/etc" they're going to get a message of "leelaw owns XYZ RAWs"?

I'm sorry, but that's just false.

Additionally, since AW records are not updated to your new address when you move, a LOCs search won't reveal it if you moved, nor should it (since, again, they're registered to a person).

Unless you're addressing yourself as "hi, I'm leelaw, CA DL# D8663941, and I just saw..." they can't get that record, and it doesn't pop up immediately if a DL is run - they specifically have to search firearms records to discover that, which is not standard for a reporting party.

leelaw
02-11-2009, 8:07 PM
so what is the law regarding temporarily relocating your C+R collection or handgun? For example everything is registered to address A but I move to B
how much time do you have to register new address if at all?

You must notify ATF 30 days prior to a move of a C&R license. I don't know how that applies to the storage of the firearms purchased under the license.

As for RAWs... there is no requirement to reregister the address.

Blue
02-11-2009, 8:11 PM
That or the fact you were yelling "I HAVE A GUN FOO".:p

That or the wife telling the dispatch that I have a gun in some guys ear...

tyrist
02-11-2009, 8:20 PM
As far as I know this is completely false in my dept. I have never recieved a radio call of anything and been told the reporting party owns firearms.

OrovilleTim
02-11-2009, 8:42 PM
I'd bet it depends on what's configured and kept in the database. It's probably not a "global" thing, but rather something that was cross referenced into the database. If when I did my CLEO letter for an FFL-03 they entered it in the notes for my address, I wouldn't consider that a bad thing. That way, if my alarm monitoring company called in and it showed on the screen "this house has a buttload of guns", they would dispatch faster. In turn, a faster response would mean less of a chance for my Dobies to ingest too much infected criminal blood before the authorities showed up to rescue the bad guys :D

Meplat
02-11-2009, 8:56 PM
I have actually heard my AW come up on police radio during an ID check. Some say this does not happen but I heard it with my own ears. In addition I have heard other registered weapons I own come up, even ones reported stolen.:eek:

It never seems to bother the officers much.




I just found out a little interesting fact at the range today. If you call 911 as a RP (reporting party) a note will come up on the dispatcher's screen that you have an AW! So if you ever call to report a crime in progress that is not taking place at your residence, do not in any circumstance go outside your residence with any type of weapon. Most dispatchers are trained to disregard the note if you are the RP, but it has happened that they told the officer that you, the RP had an AW and that message has been garbled.

Also, for all of you who thought that when you registered your AW, it was just going in some dusty file, oops.

kar6man
02-11-2009, 9:21 PM
one more reason not to register them...

tyrist
02-11-2009, 9:26 PM
I have actually heard my AW come up on police radio during an ID check. Some say this does not happen but I heard it with my own ears. In addition I have heard other registered weapons I own come up, even ones reported stolen.:eek:

It never seems to bother the officers much.

What was he investigating you for?

ke6guj
02-11-2009, 9:40 PM
I have actually heard my AW come up on police radio during an ID check. Some say this does not happen but I heard it with my own ears. In addition I have heard other registered weapons I own come up, even ones reported stolen.:eek:

It never seems to bother the officers much.
And that would be a PC violation.

12288.5. (a) No peace officer or dispatcher shall broadcast over a police radio that an individual has registered, or has obtained a permit to possess, an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to this chapter, unless there exists a reason to believe in good faith that one of the following conditions exist:
(1) The individual has engaged, or may be engaged, in criminal conduct.
(2) The police are responding to a call in which the person allegedly committing a criminal violation may gain access to the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle.
(3) The victim, witness, or person who reported the alleged criminal violation may be using the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to hold the person allegedly committing the criminal violation or may be using the weapon in defense of himself, herself, or other persons.
(b) This section shall not prohibit a peace officer or dispatcher from broadcasting over a police radio that an individual has not registered, or has not obtained a permit to possess, an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to this chapter.
(c) This section does not limit the transmission of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle ownership status via law enforcement computers or any other medium that is legally accessible only to peace officers or other authorized personnel.

zinfull
02-12-2009, 10:27 AM
I have a pistol in limbo for about 3 months now. I have called DOJ and they ask for your Drivers License #. One time they made a comment on my collection so all they need is your DL not address to find the guns you own. It did not take anytime at all for them to find out either. You own a gun you are in the system to all who asks.


Jerry

tyrist
02-12-2009, 10:34 AM
I have a pistol in limbo for about 3 months now. I have called DOJ and they ask for your Drivers License #. One time they made a comment on my collection so all they need is your DL not address to find the guns you own. It did not take anytime at all for them to find out either. You own a gun you are in the system to all who asks.


Jerry

Need your name and date of birth inorder to check the AFS system for firearms. Your DL just happens to have all that information.

M1A Rifleman
02-12-2009, 10:44 AM
This issue has been brought up before and it was deemed as another urban myth. The determination of firearm information is a separate database that does not accidently pop-up on their screens.

Firearm information is on a State database that LEO's have access to, however my understanding is its not routinely accessed unless there is a specific reason such as verifyng a registration etc. Same goes for CCW information, it does not simply pop-up on their screens when running your ID.

bwiese
02-12-2009, 10:56 AM
This issue has been brought up before and it was deemed as another urban myth. The determination of firearm information is a separate database that does not accidently pop-up on their screens.

Firearm information is on a State database that LEO's have access to, however my understanding is its not routinely accessed unless there is a specific reason such as verifyng a registration etc. Same goes for CCW information, it does not simply pop-up on their screens when running your ID.


Actually, we're not sure yet.

IT COULD WELL VARY BY DEPARTMENT/OFFICE IMPLEMENTATION.

I can see a large city/county's customized MDT software querying multiple databases including AFS, and displaying that info. Not hard to design, even for a government worker.

M1A Rifleman
02-12-2009, 10:58 AM
Actually, we're not sure yet.

IT COULD WELL VARY BY DEPARTMENT/OFFICE IMPLEMENTATION.

I can see a large city/county's customized MDT software querying multiple databases including AFS, and displaying that info. Not hard to design, even for a government worker.


I can confirm this is the case in the City just north of SJ.

SteveH
02-12-2009, 11:37 AM
As far as I know this is completely false in my dept. I have never recieved a radio call of anything and been told the reporting party owns firearms.

It is in fact illegal for the police to broadcast over the radio that someone owns registered assault weapons. That was added to the CPC back when radios were not encripted and crooks could be listening in on scanners.

There are of course limited exceptions like when the owner is the suspect in a violents crime.

AJAX22
02-12-2009, 12:38 PM
Actually, we're not sure yet.

IT COULD WELL VARY BY DEPARTMENT/OFFICE IMPLEMENTATION.

I can see a large city/county's customized MDT software querying multiple databases including AFS, and displaying that info. Not hard to design, even for a government worker.

I've personally heard them report 'numerous registered firearms' called out over the radio when I was being detained by the CHP on suspicion of discharging an automatic weapon... there was one other calgunner there with me who also heard it. This was in Cayucous and was done by the CHP.

so... somehow someone is looking at some of these records.

DDT
02-12-2009, 12:57 PM
I've personally heard them report 'numerous registered firearms' called out over the radio when I was being detained by the CHP on suspicion of discharging an automatic weapon... there was one other calgunner there with me who also heard it. This was in Cayucous and was done by the CHP.

Well. That pretty clearly falls under exception (1) of 12288.5. (a)

DDT
02-12-2009, 1:01 PM
This issue has been brought up before and it was deemed as another urban myth.



Actually, we're not sure yet.

IT COULD WELL VARY BY DEPARTMENT/OFFICE IMPLEMENTATION.

I can see a large city/county's customized MDT software querying multiple databases including AFS, and displaying that info. Not hard to design, even for a government worker.


I can confirm this is the case in the City just north of SJ.


That doesn't make any sense. In the first post it appears you are saying the information isn't sent, that it's an urban myth but in the second you seem to be agreeing with Bill that it is being sent in your "City just north of SJ."

leelaw
02-12-2009, 4:50 PM
That doesn't make any sense. In the first post it appears you are saying the information isn't sent, that it's an urban myth but in the second you seem to be agreeing with Bill that it is being sent in your "City just north of SJ."

What he's saying is that it would require customized programming to do such a thing, and that it is not standard practice at near all Departments.

tyrist
02-12-2009, 5:16 PM
Actually, we're not sure yet.

IT COULD WELL VARY BY DEPARTMENT/OFFICE IMPLEMENTATION.

I can see a large city/county's customized MDT software querying multiple databases including AFS, and displaying that info. Not hard to design, even for a government worker.

When I run a want/wrnt check I can check county wants, NCIC, driver license, and car registration all on the same form. Inorder to access AFS I have to bring up an entirely different form. So accessing AFS is a specific query I would be making outside of anything else accessed during a traffic stop/investigation. The only time I could query AFS along will all other information would be if I ran CJIS query...but I have to be at the station and it would never be broadcast.

hoffmang
02-12-2009, 8:09 PM
BTW: I kind of like having folks in the government understand that I'm armed and perfectly capable of defending myself.

Put me on the list of hard targets any day.

-Gene

QuarterBoreGunner
02-12-2009, 8:35 PM
^actually I kind of like this too.

JamesY
02-12-2009, 9:07 PM
Without going into too much detail, I was stopped twice on separate occasions by the Hayward PD. Both times, right after running my DL, they ask about any AWs...

CavTrooper
02-12-2009, 9:28 PM
BTW: I kind of like having folks in the government understand that I'm armed and perfectly capable of defending myself.

Put me on the list of hard targets any day.

-Gene

That combined with a "Combat Veteren" sticker on my truck makes them think twice about what I might be capable of. :thumbsup:

USN CHIEF
02-12-2009, 9:34 PM
This rumor is not true in Chula Vista or San Diego.

RANGER295
02-12-2009, 9:47 PM
BTW: I kind of like having folks in the government understand that I'm armed and perfectly capable of defending myself.

Put me on the list of hard targets any day.

-Gene

I am not sure that I agree with that 100%. They by far have superior firepower and numbers… the fact that they know I am not a soft target just means that they would come prepared to deal with a “hard target”. I think I would rather have the element of surprise which may allow me to get myself out of the immediate situation and into a more favorable position for survival or resistance. (I assume we are referring to a definite SHTF scenario)

Meplat
02-12-2009, 9:49 PM
Once was a traffic stop, no ticket and kind of weird. I got the feeling the stop was not really traffic but maybe my car looked like one they were actively looking for.



The other was a PSO taking a report of an auto burglary. I was the RP.:D

What was he investigating you for?

Meplat
02-12-2009, 9:51 PM
Yes I have heard that before, but as I say, I heard it with my own ears.And that would be a PC violation.

Meplat
02-12-2009, 10:03 PM
I tend to agree with this. I work for the state of Kalifornia and know from experience that people in bureaucracies tend to believe that how things are done in their little corner of the world is the only way it can be done.

I also live in an area of the state where they don't much worry about the rules set in Sacto. "Let me tell ya boy". "You in a heap a trouble boy".:eek:

Actually, we're not sure yet.

IT COULD WELL VARY BY DEPARTMENT/OFFICE IMPLEMENTATION.

I can see a large city/county's customized MDT software querying multiple databases including AFS, and displaying that info. Not hard to design, even for a government worker.

old-trapper
02-12-2009, 10:16 PM
still glad i registered.... i can have my evil features all day long and dont have to worry about bunking with bubba. I registered multi cal so i got my .50 bmg as a bonus...

Anthonysmanifesto
02-12-2009, 10:27 PM
I just found out a little interesting fact at the range today. If you call 911 as a RP (reporting party) a note will come up on the dispatcher's screen that you have an AW! So if you ever call to report a crime in progress that is not taking place at your residence, do not in any circumstance go outside your residence with any type of weapon. Most dispatchers are trained to disregard the note if you are the RP, but it has happened that they told the officer that you, the RP had an AW and that message has been garbled.

Also, for all of you who thought that when you registered your AW, it was just going in some dusty file, oops.

what is your source.

I'm not familiar with what database is accessed automatically by a name/home phone match.

i havent seen it on ride alongs , including a 911 call center "ride-along".

im intersted in knowing how this works as it comes up from time to time.

Can one of the many LEO's on this forum comment?

Having been the reporting party number of times ive been given no inclination of this.

Anthonysmanifesto
02-12-2009, 10:29 PM
I have actually heard my AW come up on police radio during an ID check. Some say this does not happen but I heard it with my own ears. In addition I have heard other registered weapons I own come up, even ones reported stolen.:eek:

It never seems to bother the officers much.

It is illegal for them to report your ownership of a registered AW on the radio. ( PC 12288.5.)

M1A Rifleman
02-13-2009, 8:25 AM
That doesn't make any sense. In the first post it appears you are saying the information isn't sent, that it's an urban myth but in the second you seem to be agreeing with Bill that it is being sent in your "City just north of SJ."

I can see your confusion from my response. What was meant, was that I could confirm the information WAS NOT simply showing up on screens for routine calls. Firearms information had to be accessed/requested through another system.

Tallship
02-13-2009, 8:26 AM
Anthony-

My source is the LEO who responded to the call, who told me about the incident at the Sheriff's pistol range.

tonelar
02-13-2009, 8:48 AM
I have actually heard my AW come up on police radio during an ID check. Some say this does not happen but I heard it with my own ears. In addition I have heard other registered weapons I own come up, even ones reported stolen.:eek:...

And that would be a PC violation.

Actually if you bothered to read further down 12288.5 youd have seen;
"...unless there is reason to believe, in good faith..."

Then for pretty much any reason; LE can ignore 12288.5.

DDT
02-13-2009, 9:51 AM
I can see your confusion from my response. What was meant, was that I could confirm the information WAS NOT simply showing up on screens for routine calls. Firearms information had to be accessed/requested through another system.

Thanks for clearing that up.