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View Full Version : Another craigslist ATF scam?


berg
10-18-2005, 8:53 PM
http://www.craigslist.org/eby/spo/105103953.html

Are these legal here?


COBRAY PM-12 .380 CAL
COMES WITH 3 10RD MAGS
300.00 + FFL DEALER TRANSFER
PREFER TO USE VACAVILLE SHOOTING GALLERY keyword:gun,firearm

http://b.im.craigslist.org/tf/MR/Jo8ytdWhsLHJoAdtkawgLf1GcPSn.jpg

Mssr. Eleganté
10-18-2005, 9:39 PM
Doesn't the PM12 have a non-threaded barrel? I know they at least make non-threaded barrels for the PM12.

Does it have the word "MAC" anywhere on it?

If it doesn't have a threaded barrel or the word "MAC" on it then I think it might be California legal.

artherd
10-18-2005, 10:21 PM
Should be CA legal with a non-threaded bbl.

DV8
10-19-2005, 5:53 AM
Should be CA legal with a non-threaded bbl.

That is correct.

pogo
10-19-2005, 6:36 AM
..... the ATF try to set people up on Craigslist before?

Another craigslist ATF scam?

bwiese
10-19-2005, 7:35 AM
There's nothing wrong with this ad: this is a CA-legal gun that is to be transferred legally thru an FFL dealer. It is not an assault weapon in CA.

BATF setups appear to run things that are more tempting and NFA-related - for example, there's an ad with an 800# that regularly runs in Shotgun News selling "legal" autosears for AR15s. Or they look for 'big pattern' crimes - dealer doing repeated straw sales, etc.

I don't think ATF generally concerns itself with legality of single gun transactions unless they are gross violations. Things like a paper-free transfer here would get more attention from local law enforcement than ATF.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Charliegone
10-19-2005, 8:40 AM
Man, if I lived up there I would pick it up. Unfortunately for me I live in S. Cali.:( oh well. Will sure bring back memories to my brother.

pogo
10-19-2005, 8:44 AM
Hi BWeise I happen toi agree with everything in your above post, I was just surprised at someone's idea that ATF might do this and was trying to clarify the original poster's question and understand what the he meant.

Most of the ATF stings I've heard of seem to go like this - They enlist someone to befriend an FFL dealer and over a long period of time, the "friend" eventually keeps asking the dealer to do him a borderline favor to "help him out". It's never something heinous, just a small infraction that the dealer might fall for. Once he finally does the favor, they take him to court and shut him down, the legal fees alone are enough to put a shop owner out of business. HDW Weapons in Agoura comes to mind, also the 80 year old man who put a folder on an M1 Carbine at the buyer's repeated request (posted on Calguns last month), and of course Ruby Ridge. I can't confirm other rumored local stings but wouldn't doubt they happened, Pistol Pete's in Redondo Beach(?) for one.

I've also had guys approach me at gunshows looking very out of place, one broaching the subject of getting machine guns built for him, others wanting to buy my pistols without paperwork, they seemed like obvious feds.

Then there's the one where ATF will allow something to be imported into the country (as in GSP's TT33s) and then raid the place after they start selling them to the public. Whether this is deliberate or just a misunderstanding I don't know.

All of these schemes seem designed to up the agents' bust scores, without taking out any of the real bad guys.


There's nothing wrong with this ad: this is a CA-legal gun that is to be transferred legally thru an FFL dealer. It is not an assault weapon in CA.
BATF setups appear to run things that are more tempting and NFA-related - for example, there's an ad with an 800# that regularly runs in Shotgun News selling "legal" autosears for AR15s. Or they look for 'big pattern' crimes - dealer doing repeated straw sales, etc.
I don't think ATF generally concerns itself with legality of single gun transactions unless they are gross violations. Things like a paper-free transfer here would get more attention from local law enforcement than ATF.
Bill Wiese
San Jose

Charliegone
10-19-2005, 9:39 AM
Heres a website of what the ATF does.

http://www.atfabuse.com/purpose.html

"They have held young children AT GUN POINT (many times while children were nearly naked) while they performed a search warrant ON THE WRONG HOUSE!"

I actually exprienced this and they took our shotgun (which was NOT an AW). They took pictures of everyone etc. WTF do they think they are?

rastro
10-22-2005, 2:14 AM
I'll let you know in a few weeks. :D

It is not listed under any of the assault weapon categories under 12276, and it does not have any of the prohibited characteristics under 12276.1a(4).

(Scroll down towards the bottom and search for Chapter 2.3, Article 1, 12276 and 12276.1a (http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/dwc.htm))

It only comes with three ten round magazines, does not have a threaded barrel/second handgrip/barrel shroud.

Unfortunately, the FFL we were going to use changed his mind once he saw it. He thought it was an assault rifle. We told him it was a pistol, not a SBR.

He wasn't willing to look at the regs, he said he had to get an okay from a DOJ field rep.

I said, "What if the rep makes a mistake? Here it is in black in white. If you don't trust what I printed, just check the DOJ site and look at the definitions yourself."

We were a big NOvember-GOlf at this station. :mad:

Since he wasn't willing to look at the regs, I wasn't willing to give him my money.

I just wish I would have known this before I drove 200 miles in traffic! (Los Altos to Vacaville and back).

Mike
10-22-2005, 3:25 AM
Heres a website of what the ATF does.

http://www.atfabuse.com/purpose.html

"They have held young children AT GUN POINT (many times while children were nearly naked) while they performed a search warrant ON THE WRONG HOUSE!"

I actually exprienced this and they took our shotgun (which was NOT an AW). They took pictures of everyone etc. WTF do they think they are?

:eek: Wrong house, and they took your firearm too??

How much did you settle out of court for?;)

berg
10-22-2005, 11:20 AM
OK then what about this one. Aren't these illegal?:
http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/spo/105831697.html

Brass Knuckles - Premium (not plastic) - $20 (north beach / telegraph hill)

Date: 2005-10-21, 11:19PM PDT


These are the finest Brass Knuckles available anywhere. Guarantee you cant find a better offer elsewhere online, if u do i will match it and you will save on shipping

availible in brass, chrome
keyword: airsoft stun gun knife ps2 xbox psp nano

http://b.im.craigslist.org/AE/Cs/AA6VVTDFnMvx8uOhW6MHCdgNiR4i.jpg

rastro
10-22-2005, 11:37 AM
Brass knuckles are illegal in California per penal code section 12020(a)(1). (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0096316452+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)

PanzerAce
10-22-2005, 3:25 PM
Heres a website of what the ATF does.

http://www.atfabuse.com/purpose.html

"They have held young children AT GUN POINT (many times while children were nearly naked) while they performed a search warrant ON THE WRONG HOUSE!"

I actually exprienced this and they took our shotgun (which was NOT an AW). They took pictures of everyone etc. WTF do they think they are?


Damn, reminds me of some of my friends experiences, except those were with SWAT. one of my friends was doing some airsoft up in the hills around the bay area, when some one called the cops, claiming they had stuff like AKs, ARs, etc, but actuall ones, not air soft. as a result, all of my friends up there were surrounded by the swat with DRAWN GUNS, while the police took their time in confiming that the semi clear plastic guns were in fact, airsoft. Also, my roomy had swat break into his house once when he was 12 because they thought a crack dealer lived there.

Charliegone
10-22-2005, 4:37 PM
No they didn't give anything back because my family didn't want to have to deal with lawyers this and that. Hell if they did that now I wouldn't just walk away. As a kid what could I do anyways.:mad:

dwtt
10-23-2005, 10:09 AM
I'll let you know in a few weeks. :D
)


Unfortunately, the FFL we were going to use changed his mind once he saw it. He thought it was an assault rifle. We told him it was a pistol, not a SBR.

He wasn't willing to look at the regs, he said he had to get an okay from a DOJ field rep.

We were a big NOvember-GOlf at this station. :mad:

Since he wasn't willing to look at the regs, I wasn't willing to give him my money.

I just wish I would have known this before I drove 200 miles in traffic! (Los Altos to Vacaville and back).

What if you talked to the seller and offer to pay for his gas money if he would drive down to Fremont to have the gun transferred at Irvington Arms? Wouldn't that be a good solution to those dealers not willing to look up the law? Just my opinion.