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View Full Version : OC County Supes to Hold Hearing on Right-to-Carry Policy Today!


mikehaas
02-10-2009, 6:09 AM
Orange County Board of Supervisors to Hold Hearing on Right-to-Carry Policy Today!

http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=occcw

Labor Saving Tip: The easy-to-use ONE-CLICK service available there will send your personal comments to all members of the Orange County Board of Supervisors.

.454
02-10-2009, 6:58 AM
For those of you who cannot attend, live video feed of the meeting here (http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/50b4a6f2-ef9f-4a61-bc17-fc141b3584d7/2-10-09/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html)

Theseus
02-10-2009, 7:16 AM
I can not attend, but I will be there in spirit....

1BigPea
02-10-2009, 7:56 AM
For those of you who cannot attend, live video feed of the meeting here (http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/50b4a6f2-ef9f-4a61-bc17-fc141b3584d7/2-10-09/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html)

Thanks for the link.

I just emailed all of the supervisors as well since I cannot attend today.

Liberty1
02-10-2009, 8:21 AM
For those of you who cannot attend, live video feed of the meeting here (http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/50b4a6f2-ef9f-4a61-bc17-fc141b3584d7/2-10-09/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html)

Well it was a working link. Now it isn't. Hmmmmmmmm? :(


try this

http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 8:42 AM
I can not attend, but I will be there in spirit....

+ 1.

Who is providing the security today? I hope Sandra's goons haven't been invited.

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 8:46 AM
Best of luck to those attending. I wish I could be there..

bulgron
02-10-2009, 8:47 AM
I've been trying to get the live video feed to work, but no dice. Has anyone found a link that works?

I believe this started at 9:30, right?

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 8:52 AM
I've been trying to get the live video feed to work, but no dice. Has anyone found a link that works?

I believe this started at 9:30, right?

I got the above link to work in Internet Explorer, I was trying it in Chrome/Safari and it wouldn't play.

Patricia Bates is currently giving the state of the county address.

Liberty1
02-10-2009, 9:06 AM
try this

http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html...

Bill_in_SD
02-10-2009, 9:08 AM
ITEM 22. CCW Discussion set for 11:00 a.m.

Liberty1
02-10-2009, 9:08 AM
11 O'Clock is when they will start with Item 22 (ccw).

Liberty1
02-10-2009, 9:09 AM
ITEM 22. CCW Discussion set for 11:00 a.m.

bastar* beat me by seconds ;)

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 9:10 AM
37 speakers to speak...and I was a few seconds behind a lot of people!

vrand
02-10-2009, 9:11 AM
Thanks for the link.

I just emailed all of the supervisors as well since I cannot attend today.

The Live feed works well :thumbsup:

bulgron
02-10-2009, 9:15 AM
The Live feed works well :thumbsup:

Not working for me with a Mac and with the latest Firefox. This is weird, because the last OC meeting that I tried to look at with this setup worked just fine.

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 9:15 AM
Not working for me with a Mac and with the latest Firefox. This is weird, because the last OC meeting that I tried to look at with this setup worked just fine.
Try Opera. It's working great for me.

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 9:21 AM
My simple email that I just sent to the supervisors:


Dear Supervisors,



Thank you for your support of those of us in Orange County who are pro-CCW. Your support of citizen's rights speaks volumes about your character.



Sincerely,

H Paul Payne
02-10-2009, 9:30 AM
I'm in the OC BOS chambers now.

I have noticed that the Sheriff is NOT in uniform and wearing her gun.

Maybe she got a CCW???????

Paul

motorhead
02-10-2009, 9:30 AM
Well it was a working link. Now it isn't. Hmmmmmmmm? :(


try this

http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html

working for me. regular whitebread ie.

1BigPea
02-10-2009, 9:44 AM
I'm in the OC BOS chambers now.

I have noticed that the Sheriff is NOT in uniform and wearing her gun.

Maybe she got a CCW???????

Paul



Is there the same show of force as there was last time?

bulgron
02-10-2009, 9:45 AM
Try Opera. It's working great for me.

Thanks. That worked for me.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 9:58 AM
http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html

Is where im watching from

i would like to know what the percentage of ccw holders who commited a crime vs. the percentage of non-ccw holders who committed a crime. I think that would be a good piece of info.

H Paul Payne
02-10-2009, 10:05 AM
Is there the same show of force as there was last time?

No. No "show of force" but there are some OBVIOUS "undercovers" but not a lot.

I was talking with one of the "undercovers" (claimed to be a NRA lifer) and he told me that "the department" was very "touchy" after the last fiasco. He stated that "they" are "using more females for survailance activities" - whatever that means.

More later.......

Paul

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 10:08 AM
http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html

Is where im watching from

i would like to know what the percentage of ccw holders who commited a crime vs. the percentage of non-ccw holders who committed a crime. I think that would be a good piece of info.

Thanks, this link works. Watching also.

Bill_in_SD
02-10-2009, 10:17 AM
Speaking now.... she is dressed nice.. not her uniform?

Maybe she is extending the olive branch.... .NOT!

the_donald_
02-10-2009, 10:17 AM
:popcorn:

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 10:18 AM
i would like to know what the percentage of ccw holders who commited a crime vs. the percentage of non-ccw holders who committed a crime. I think that would be a good piece of info.

Haven't got the details, but I remember a study that said that not only were CCW holders less likely to commit a crime of violence than were non-ccw holders, but that they were less likely to commit such a crime than were LEO's.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 10:18 AM
that B said "common sense"

bwiese
02-10-2009, 10:19 AM
I was talking with one of the "undercovers" (claimed to be a NRA lifer)
and he told me that "the department" was very "touchy" after the last
fiasco. He stated that "they" are "using more females for survailance
activities" - whatever that means.


What, they're not using grungy biker types like the DOJ LE division throws at CA gunshows?

;)

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 10:19 AM
that B said "common sense"

We probably all agree we need common sense gun laws. Where we completely disagree is in what this means.

Bill_in_SD
02-10-2009, 10:20 AM
GO Norby!

Asks about the videos first. This guy rocks!

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 10:21 AM
i like that guy!

mow
02-10-2009, 10:21 AM
She wasn't prepared to answer the questions about the videos from the Sup but had already sent a letter?

Oh btw, it's on right now!

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 10:28 AM
"There are a lot of things that are illegal without a license"

I like the argument Norby is baiting the Sheriff into... :43:

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 10:33 AM
How can they pass a resolution to not allow recordings of a public meeting under the PRA?

mow
02-10-2009, 10:40 AM
Chris is ruling!

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 10:43 AM
What does F.O.J. stand for?

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 10:48 AM
What does F.O.J. stand for?

Take your pick here (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FOJ):

Acronym Definition
FOJ Freiwilliges Ökologisches Jahr
FOJ 4th of July
FOJ Full Outer Join (database query)
FOJ Fugitive of Justice (warrant)
FOJ Frozen Orange Juice
FOJ Full On Jackleg (merchandise brand)
FOJ Found Own Job
FOJ Fuze-On-Jam
FOJ Friends of Jason

Google is your friend!

mow
02-10-2009, 10:54 AM
A vote of no confidence would be sweet!

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 10:56 AM
Take your pick here (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FOJ):

Acronym Definition
FOJ Freiwilliges Ökologisches Jahr
FOJ 4th of July
FOJ Full Outer Join (database query)
FOJ Fugitive of Justice (warrant)
FOJ Frozen Orange Juice
FOJ Full On Jackleg (merchandise brand)
FOJ Found Own Job
FOJ Fuze-On-Jam
FOJ Friends of Jason

Google is your friend!

The question is in reference to the buttons the speakers are wearing.

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 10:59 AM
The question is in reference to the buttons the speakers are wearing.


:) :)

ke6guj
02-10-2009, 11:00 AM
What does F.O.J. stand for?

heard a speaker say "friends of Janet"

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 11:01 AM
What does F.O.J. stand for?

Friends of Janet. Reference link. (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/hutchens-supervisors-sheriff-2301977-board-county)

glockfu
02-10-2009, 11:04 AM
The link doesnt work for me. Is this thing still going on? If not, what came out of all this?

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 11:06 AM
Yes, they are on speaker 8 of 41 :D

Bill_in_SD
02-10-2009, 11:06 AM
UH OH

The UOC gauntlet has been thrown.....

"Reason #1 for expanding CCW - you can't afford not to... is the Sheriff prepared for the citizens of Orange County to UOC?"

mow
02-10-2009, 11:07 AM
UH OH

The UOC gauntlet has been thrown.....

"Reason #1 for expanding CCW - you can't afford not to... is the Sheriff prepared for the citizens of Orange County to UOC?"

Did he say that?

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 11:09 AM
Yes he did, maybe not a good idea, but I wish I could've seen Hutchens face when hid did!

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 11:09 AM
Yep, pretty much a throwdown of "we either get CCW, or we all start UOC, you pick"

sfwdiy
02-10-2009, 11:10 AM
The guy with the long hair? Yeah, I think he did.

--Ben

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 11:10 AM
YES

1BigPea
02-10-2009, 11:11 AM
Yep, pretty much a throwdown of "we either get CCW, or we all start UOC, you pick"

Absolutely awesome. Everyone who is speaking is making me SOOO proud! I wish I could be there.

The UOC reference is right on point!

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 11:11 AM
I loved the clear evidence of Hutchens violating the PRA act. The fact that she has broken the law and the BOS may be held accountable could be a powerful ally.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 11:14 AM
godwins law!

its now a meeting of epic proportions

glockfu
02-10-2009, 11:16 AM
Damn it you guys are making me jelous... it doesnt work on my comp. When I click the second link it says something like video is not available yet, please try again later.

So could someone just type out exactly what everyone is saying and post in this thread? :D

mow
02-10-2009, 11:17 AM
"http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html"

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 11:19 AM
Damn it you guys are making me jelous... it doesnt work on my comp. When I click the second link it says something like video is not available yet, please try again later.

So could someone just type out exactly what everyone is saying and post in this thread? :D

Which browser are you using? People have had problems with Firefox but have reported success using IE and Chrome. I'm using FF and it works fine for me.

Van Norman is coming up. :)

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 11:20 AM
Silent claps!

sfwdiy
02-10-2009, 11:21 AM
i couldn't get it to load on my mac. Watching on IE, VMWare fusion virtual machine.

Good stuff. Speakers are doing really well for the most part.

wolf13
02-10-2009, 11:25 AM
Second link works for me on Firefox.

Hans Gruber
02-10-2009, 11:27 AM
Nothing's working for me on linux. :(

KrizB
02-10-2009, 11:28 AM
Page loads up for me in IE and Opera but the WMP won't play/connect, even after updating every thing.:helpsmilie:

PolishMike
02-10-2009, 11:31 AM
haha who the **** is this goofball?

JDoe
02-10-2009, 11:31 AM
http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/Presentation_file/live.asx

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 11:34 AM
i have no idea...

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 11:35 AM
Bandwidth seems to be rather lacking...

sfwdiy
02-10-2009, 11:36 AM
Is anyone recording this?

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 11:37 AM
haha who the **** is this goofball?

What in the world is he talking about?!

Doheny
02-10-2009, 11:37 AM
Is anyone recording this?

It will be available on the BOS website in a day or two.

PolishMike
02-10-2009, 11:38 AM
What in the world is he talking about?!

haha I don't know... why did they keep him up there longer..

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 11:38 AM
This guy is not helping. :(

vrand
02-10-2009, 11:40 AM
GO Norby!

Asks about the videos first. This guy rocks!

:thumbsup:

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 11:41 AM
Is anyone recording this?

It will remain available in archive form on the Board of Supervisors' website. Should be available shortly after the meeting concludes.

H Paul Payne
02-10-2009, 11:45 AM
To quote Mel Gibson in We were Soldiers, "It's getting a little sporty down here."

Paul

mow
02-10-2009, 11:45 AM
It will remain available in archive form on the Board of Supervisors' website. Should be available shortly after the meeting concludes.

Uh doesn't the sheriffs department own that recording? ;)

Doheny
02-10-2009, 11:45 AM
haha I don't know... why did they keep him up there longer..

He's one of the ones that the Sheriff command staff was talking about in their text messages. The BOS probably felt they owed him the extra time.

He could have come off better.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 11:46 AM
just the security cameras ;)

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 11:50 AM
whats the deal with all the bow ties?

vrand
02-10-2009, 11:51 AM
To quote Mel Gibson in We were Soldiers, "It's getting a little sporty down here."

Paul

Life imitating art

Doheny
02-10-2009, 11:54 AM
whats the deal with all the bow ties?

When the command staff was texting about the speakers, they were mocking one of the people w/ a bow tie. I think it's a unity thing that they all wore them today.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 11:58 AM
GO NRA, we are here to stay! Hey, CRPA is still alive?

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 12:00 PM
I'm in the OC BOS chambers now.

I have noticed that the Sheriff is NOT in uniform and wearing her gun.

Maybe she got a CCW???????

Paul

I agree with what you said regardless of what the chairwoman thinks.

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Has someone explained "Friend of Janet?" yet?

Reference to the text message sent by one of the command staff last meeting that he hopes Supervisor Janet Nuygen (sp?) has a pet for a friend.

1BigPea
02-10-2009, 12:03 PM
NICE JOB H PAUL PAYNE!!! :thumbsup:

Doheny
02-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Has someone explained "Friend of Janet?" yet?

Back to the text messaging, the Asst Sheriff made a despairing remark via text about her (she's a member of the BOS.) Again, it’s a unity thing…they’re showing support for her.

mikehaas
02-10-2009, 12:05 PM
GO NRA, we are here to stay! Hey, CRPA is still alive?
"I'm H. Paul Payne with the National Rifle Association..." - and passionate about our rights. Good job, my friend.

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 12:07 PM
I wish I could watch this, but last time I did my darned Satellite company decided I had exceeded the stupid "fair use policy" and I couldn't get any work done for 24 hours. Despite being on the most expensive plan. One drawback of living miles up a dirt road.

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Adjourned to closed sesssion...??? My connection got fudged and now there's nothing.

Foghlai
02-10-2009, 12:10 PM
Great so far! The second connection supplied still works. They are in recess until 1:35. Thanks!

Nessal
02-10-2009, 12:10 PM
They are in recess right now.

Dr Rockso
02-10-2009, 12:10 PM
Lunch break plus some other stuff apparently.

SteveH
02-10-2009, 12:11 PM
NRA guy was a terrible public speaker.

Bald guy before him did well talking about voluntary compliance.

The little guy from San Juan Cap did pretty good inspite being nervouse.

CRPA guy was pretty good.

vrand
02-10-2009, 12:15 PM
CRPA guy was pretty good.

Yea, I liked his "good cause" right to carry minimum standard :thumbsup:

glockfu
02-10-2009, 12:15 PM
I'm using IE 6.0... damn this thing

CCWFacts
02-10-2009, 12:21 PM
Nothing's working for me on linux. :(

Me neither. And that's all I have. :(

fullrearview
02-10-2009, 12:22 PM
I can't get the feed on FF or IE.:(

don't live in OC but any win helps!!!! hope it is going good!

Dr Rockso
02-10-2009, 12:22 PM
NRA guy was a terrible public speaker.

Bald guy before him did well talking about voluntary compliance.

The little guy from San Juan Cap did pretty good inspite being nervouse.

CRPA guy was pretty good.

I agree, the NRA guy was pretty lousy all things considered. Instead of making a stupid comment about the sheriff's clothes he could have talked about the successes of right-to-carry in the rest of the country.

Bill_in_SD
02-10-2009, 12:24 PM
Was the 'NRA guy' really from the NRA or a plant?

(/tinfoil hat off)

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 12:25 PM
I can't get the feed on FF or IE.:(

don't live in OC but any win helps!!!! hope it is going good!Use Opera. It works better than IE for most things and does this very well.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 12:26 PM
He was there before. could have worded things more wisely but i like the name drop (NRA)

bulgron
02-10-2009, 12:27 PM
Me neither. And that's all I have. :(

Did you try Opera? I had to go to Opera on the Mac and it's working for me.

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 12:32 PM
Was the 'NRA guy' really from the NRA or a plant?

(/tinfoil hat off)

H. Paul Payne is the NRA Liaison to the Executive Vice President (Wayne LaPierre). He is the NRA's head honcho for California.

Please don't accuse the gun rights crowd of lying to the Board of Supervisors. There are no plants.

Bill_in_SD
02-10-2009, 12:34 PM
Sorry if the sarcasm was lost on my post, I was referring to the Sheriff's tactics....

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 12:38 PM
I too would have preferred if he'd stuck to something like the national standard being shall issue and that the sheriff is way out of the mainstream, but there are others who will probably do that. I sent a couple emails to that effect and I'd expect dozens others have as well.

the_donald_
02-10-2009, 12:40 PM
I wasn't able to see the last activities before this recess. Is the CCW subject still active, & to be discussed after the recess ends? Or have they moved on?

Thanks in advance.

razorx
02-10-2009, 12:41 PM
They have 11 more speakers I think after lunch then sheriff gets an opportunity to respond

vrand
02-10-2009, 12:42 PM
I wasn't able to see the last activities before this recess. Is the CCW subject still active, & to be discussed after the recess ends? Or have they moved on?

Thanks in advance.

Still active for 11 more speakers :thumbsup:

Regulus
02-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Back online with the NRA

the_donald_
02-10-2009, 12:43 PM
Awesome, thanks again.:lurk5:

razorx
02-10-2009, 12:44 PM
I agree, the NRA guy was pretty lousy all things considered. Instead of making a stupid comment about the sheriff's clothes he could have talked about the successes of right-to-carry in the rest of the country.

He needs to not speak again unless he takes these meetings seriously and prepares, suit and pretentious attitude was insufficient.

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 12:45 PM
How long is the recess?

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 12:46 PM
Way to go Ed! :thumbsup:

vrand
02-10-2009, 12:46 PM
Way to go Ed! :thumbsup:

+10 :thumbsup:

Glock22Fan
02-10-2009, 12:49 PM
How many people are there today?

And have any anti's spoken?

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 12:50 PM
Got to give the guy who made a reference to ending Hutchen's term early props. That was pretty funny.

And good job to speaker #7, Uli Ghebbard of Suarez Int'l. :thumbsup:

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 12:51 PM
41 speakers. I don't know how many in attendance, but there are many more there to support it than signed up to speak.

SteveH
02-10-2009, 12:52 PM
H. Paul Payne is the NRA Liaison to the Executive Vice President (Wayne LaPierre). He is the NRA's head honcho for California.

Please don't accuse the gun rights crowd of lying to the Board of Supervisors. There are no plants.

He was such a poor public speaker than I also wondered if he was really from the NRA rather than just a NRA member.

Theseus
02-10-2009, 12:52 PM
Gameboys not blackberries.

Not that I have anything personal against these people, but I wish they would practice a little more. I understand not everyone if comfortable, but maybe try to look a little more prepared.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 12:54 PM
Three checks for godwin that i have seen today...

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 12:54 PM
He was such a poor public speaker than I also wondered if he was really from the NRA rather than just a NRA member.

Well, agreed. IMO he did more harm than good, both this time and last time he spoke. Nevertheless he is for real. I didn't catch the poster's sarcasm...

vrand
02-10-2009, 12:54 PM
Gameboys not blackberries.

yep, the lady spoke very well :thumbsup:

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 12:56 PM
Three checks for godwin that i have seen today...

If the shoe fits...

H Paul Payne
02-10-2009, 12:57 PM
I agree with what you said regardless of what the chairwoman thinks.

Actually, I didn't do very well and my attempt at sarcasm fell flat. I guess I'm having one of my bad days. :-(

Next time I'll work from notes.

Paul

bulgron
02-10-2009, 12:58 PM
Gameboys not blackberries.

Not that I have anything personal against these people, but I wish they would practice a little more. I understand not everyone if comfortable, but maybe try to look a little more prepared.

I think some of these people came prepared to say one thing, but then someone else said it for them so they had to wing it.

This thing isn't done yet, but I won't be surprised if somehow the Brady folks manage to be the last speakers, if they appear at all.

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 12:59 PM
So why did they cut that guy off when he brought up the obvious lie by Hutchens about the holding the tapes due to undercover officers? Gee I wonder...

mikehaas
02-10-2009, 1:00 PM
Back to the text messaging, the Asst Sheriff made a despairing remark via text about her (she's a member of the BOS.) Again, it’s a unity thing…they’re showing support for her.
From http://www.ocregister.com/articles/hutchens-supervisors-sheriff-2301977-board-county

(Assistant Sheriff Michael) Hillmann next turned his BlackBerry on Supervisor Janet Nguyen, a critic of Hutchens' gun-permit plan: "I hope Janet has a pet she can call a friend."
Thus, "Friends of Janet".

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:03 PM
Ug, talking trying to link CCW and Illegal immigration now. Cavemen and Militias?

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 1:04 PM
this guy started strong but lost me at militia and illegal aliens. not helping!!! (so easy a cave man can do it, ugh)

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 1:04 PM
So why did they cut that guy off when he brought up the obvious lie by Hutchens about the holding the tapes due to undercover officers? Gee I wonder...

Speakers get 3 minutes. That individual did not make very efficient use of his and went over time.

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 1:06 PM
Yeah he went over, and his speech was less than eloquent, but they allowed many people to go past 3 min with out speaking over them and "giving them the hook". Actually he is the only one I can think 0f they did this too.

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:06 PM
Good job Mr Bowers!

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:13 PM
What's this "Murder of woman in La Habra" stuff?

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 1:16 PM
What's this "Murder of woman in La Habra" stuff?

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/woman-officers-county-2264601-weapon-fired

Foghlai
02-10-2009, 1:17 PM
Nice comment by chairwomen.

Hutchings description of good cause as an absolute does not coincide with the role of sherrif which is discretion.

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:17 PM
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/woman-officers-county-2264601-weapon-fired

Suicide by cop?

vrand
02-10-2009, 1:19 PM
Hutchens is a liar

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:20 PM
LOL she has to enforce the law whether she agrees with them or not. How about actually following the law instead of ignoring it?

Maybe we should start asking OC sherriffs to not have off duty weapons when they are going from work to home and vice versa.

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 1:21 PM
We've had her wrong all this time, she really wants us to all have CCW, she just isn't ALLOWED by law to give them to us!

UOC here we come :D

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:22 PM
over staffing on Jan. 13th...nice spinning Moorlach...

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:23 PM
excercising 2nd amendment right is not important I guess.

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 1:23 PM
YAY!! Open Carry Movement!

aileron
02-10-2009, 1:23 PM
I left after the lunch break. So are they going to have a video out there, that we can watch later? I would like to see the last 11 speakers, and how the board ultimately reacted, and what the good sherrif said later.

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:26 PM
Sheriff is speaking right now.

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 1:27 PM
So Hutchens thinkings law abiding open carry folks are a threat to security? And she wants to change the culture... That sounds like a declaration of war on us.

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:29 PM
Oh yeah. Norby is really giving it to her! :D

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 1:29 PM
GO NORBY!!!

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 1:30 PM
Wow she is getting owned by Chris... :eek:

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:30 PM
Norby fires a shot acrossed the Registers bow!

Bill_in_SD
02-10-2009, 1:30 PM
Man Norby is sharp. Makes a correlation between the comments that were made via blackberry were her picks to bring in to the department and not the 'old guard'.......

Holding her feet the fire on the 'overstaffing' issue!

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 1:34 PM
How can she argue thereasons for not handing over the tape when she is required to BY LAW!!! The PRA act is clear about the fact that she has no discretion!!

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 1:34 PM
go Nguyen

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:36 PM
LOL good job Nguyen! (re: video tape)

Now she is really grilling regarding expiration date. :)

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:38 PM
Careful Janet. Don't do more harm than good and lose the early expiration option for those who WILL be revoked.

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 1:38 PM
They wasted a lot of time on the video thing. Need to straighten her out on the law bit... do not issue unless exceptions is NOT the explicit mandate of the law, or if it is then it directly violates 2A and 14A on its face.

vrand
02-10-2009, 1:39 PM
Norby fires a shot acrossed the Registers bow!

:thumbsup:

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:40 PM
Cleanup on aisle 5.

"She is giving you what you asked for."

Doheny
02-10-2009, 1:40 PM
I saw where one of the speakers was asked if he would voluntarily turn in his permit if asked to do so in March (?) and he said no he would not. I missed anything prior to that…what was that about? Was there some discussion about voluntarily turning in permits rather than having them revoked or expire?

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 1:41 PM
Some one explain to this JO that that is the definition of extortion!! (the supervisor, not previous poster LOL)

H Paul Payne
02-10-2009, 1:42 PM
LOL good job Nguyen! (re: video tape)

Now she is really grilling regarding expiration date. :)

And I thought that I was having a bad day.

Paul

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:42 PM
They were looking for options for taking away permits that would not have the negative ramifications of a "revocation"

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:44 PM
Yeah! Norby! :D

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 1:46 PM
I saw where one of the speakers was asked if he would voluntarily turn in his permit if asked to do so in March (?) and he said no he would not. I missed anything prior to that…what was that about? Was there some discussion about voluntarily turning in permits rather than having them revoked or expire?


The Sheriff has said that once the DOJ's computer systems will allow her to, she will provide revokees with the option of voluntarily allowing her to expire their permits early in order to avoid the revocation.

What that says to me, is that she recognizes she lacks the authority to arbitrarily revoke the permits and she's hoping for voluntary compliance. Good luck with that.

SteveH
02-10-2009, 1:46 PM
Norby seems pretty reasonable. Trying to see both sides and work towards a compromise.

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:50 PM
"That is a contract." -Norby

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 1:52 PM
Awesome job Norby!


Freakin' Campbell. How the hell is that a resolution. "we got what we asked for". We did? :rolleyes:

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 1:56 PM
Final thoughts guys? i think she is going to do what she wants no matter what. and she will push the limits of the laws while doing so to achieve her hidden agenda.

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 1:58 PM
She is an anti, and will act as such.

Doheny
02-10-2009, 1:58 PM
Final thoughts guys? i think she is going to do what she wants no matter what. and she will push the limits of the laws while doing so to achieve her hidden agenda.

Yep, in the end I think she will. She doesn't want to seem like she caved to the pressure, plus she just plain doesn't like non-cops being able to carry guns.

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 1:58 PM
Short of being brought up on charges, Hutchens is going to do whatever she wants like before. This apparently made no difference :(

HCz
02-10-2009, 1:58 PM
sadly that is true. When is her term over?(Hitchins)

jb7706
02-10-2009, 2:00 PM
She already said she will trust her future to the hands of the voters. CCW's will be revoked as soon as she can get them and we little people can do nothing about it. The BOS is as powerless as we are in that respect, all they can do is threaten her budget.

I can only hope this will start a revolt in this state that will lead to shall issue...

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 2:00 PM
For those legal eagles here, could extortion charges be brought as that is clearly what her surrender of revoke policy is?

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 2:01 PM
Final thoughts guys? i think she is going to do what she wants no matter what. and she will push the limits of the laws while doing so to achieve her hidden agenda.

She'll continue to push her agenda, and she'll continue to make mistakes as she has done already. She'll continue to run afoul of the law, and she'll continue to get called on the carpet for it. This issue is far from over - today was just one day. The issue is far from settled.

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 2:01 PM
Final thoughts guys? i think she is going to do what she wants no matter what. and she will push the limits of the laws while doing so to achieve her hidden agenda.

I think I tend to agree. She didn't seem very responsive to everyone's complaint and it appears she's going to still make her stand.

While Patricia Bate's closing statement seems to support our views, all we got is a "keep trying, we'll listen but there's nothing we can do" attitude.

It was great watching everyone speak their part. A very good job to everyone there. I'm curious how many people were there total supporting CCWs (besides the 40 speakers).

7x57
02-10-2009, 2:01 PM
Short of being brought up on charges, Hutchens is going to do whatever she wants like before. This apparently made no difference :(

It makes a difference, even if not now and not in OC. The more pain that she and the board feel, the more of a deterrent effect the next time someone is thinking about something similar.

The effect is probably not much, but they should feel the pain and they should feel it in public.

Just got back from what I did today instead of coming down to provide another warm body, taking my rather pregnant wife for a checkup. I'm glad to hear there was a big turnout.

7x57

OCCCWS
02-10-2009, 2:03 PM
Keeping the issue alive is just one part of a strategy. There is much going on behind the scenes. And the issue will come before the board again. And again. And again.

Luckily, Sheriff Hutchens is the gift that keeps on giving.

xxdabroxx
02-10-2009, 2:03 PM
They are going to discuss her budget later today right?

steadyrock
02-10-2009, 2:03 PM
If you were watching, you might want to keep the feed up. They're addressing the budget right now and Moorlach hinted that there was a special budget action specifically for her.

vrand
02-10-2009, 2:06 PM
Awesome job Norby!


Freakin' Campbell. How the hell is that a resolution. "we got what we asked for". We did? :rolleyes:

:thumbsup:

rkt88edmo
02-10-2009, 2:06 PM
Thanks to all who attended!

For those not clear on the voluntary expiration, when the sheriff revokes a license she will let the CCW holder to allow their permit to expire EARLY voluntarily instead of taking a revocation mark on their DOJ/other gov database, which might adversly affect their security clearance. She still plans to revoke.

mikehaas
02-10-2009, 2:06 PM
Final thoughts guys? i think she is going to do what she wants no matter what. and she will push the limits of the laws while doing so to achieve her hidden agenda.
Well, since you asked, I think we have a devoted anti-gunner who intends to use this issue to advance. The pro-issuance policy of OC (and Mendicino and anywhere else that liberally issues) has been a thorn in their side and they have scored a real coup in Hutchens. The goal is to ride the banner of reversing the policy, become the focus of anti-gun support and soon be running for the state legislature. "Hutchens" wants to join her heroes: the ranks of Scott, Perata, Koretz, Ridley-Scott, Lowenthal, et. al.

If ya gotta have a gimmick, why not gun control?

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 2:13 PM
For those not clear on the voluntary expiration, when the sheriff revokes a license she will EXTORT the CCW holder to allow their permit to expire EARLY voluntarily instead of taking a revocation mark on their DOJ/other gov database, which might adversly affect their security clearance. She still plans to revoke.

Fixed it for ya :thumbsup:

MikeH1
02-10-2009, 2:17 PM
LOL she has to enforce the law whether she agrees with them or not. How about actually following the law instead of ignoring it?

"When the Sheriff does something, it's not illegal" to paraphrase a past U.S. President.

Typical L.A-O.C. law enforcement command attitude. "We enforce the law, therefore, we are not subject to the law."

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 2:18 PM
She should have to issue a pro-rated refund of any costs incurred in the CCW application process to anyone who is being revoked/early expired.

Fjold
02-10-2009, 2:24 PM
The majority of the BOS there impressed me.

LOW2000
02-10-2009, 2:36 PM
I'm curious, who is this guy in the blue denim shirt who spoke before the CCW issue on the SWAT training, and is up speaking again? Does he just show up with an opinion on every topic the board discusses?

vrand
02-10-2009, 2:50 PM
They are going to discuss her budget later today right?

http://cams.ocgov.com/Web_Publisher/mainlist.asp?docid=00000033&docname=Agenda02_10_2009.htm&meetdate=02_10_2009&pagendatypeid=1&pisagenda=1

PDF FY 2008-09 Second Quarter Budget Report

Pie Chart
on
Page 33 of 226

Sheriff/Coroner/Public Safety budget is the 2nd highest item after Health services. Looks like $400 million budget for 2008

S. Todd
02-10-2009, 2:53 PM
I'm curious, who is this guy in the blue denim shirt who spoke before the CCW issue on the SWAT training, and is up speaking again? Does he just show up with an opinion on every topic the board discusses?

LOL - this guy shows up at EVERY Board meeting and speaks on three issues (the max) no matter what. He is always against everything, but it's impossible to comprehend why. The local nut job, but makes the rest of us look so responsible and normal by comparison

S. Todd
02-10-2009, 3:10 PM
Looks like everyone on the hit list will lose their CCW in OC. What we accomplished was more long-term, got people fired up about the issue and now many more will actively make sure we get a pro-CCW Sheriff (time and money to the right person). Bigger picture, it created a much bigger awareness of the CCW issue. Lots of people did not even know regular folks could get one, now they know and might start applying in friendly counties. Hopefully it has some impact on eventual 'shall issue' for CA. But most important for me was that I got off my @$$ and got involved and did SOMETHING beside post on an internet forum (and it did not hurt a bit) and quit being a sheep. Feels pretty good, in fact.

RomanDad
02-10-2009, 3:18 PM
Nice job everybody.... Good seeing those who came out.... Thanks for the support...

hotwls13
02-10-2009, 3:18 PM
I think the Sheriff has this won (for now).

Unless someone Sues her and the County, I think for now revokations will be flying.

I didn't like how the Board just closed the issue. It seemed to me like they didn't ask her a lot of tough questions.

Like:

1. Show me the specific LAW that you keep quoting Sheriff!

2. Sheriff, do you think the other County Sheriff's (then name the ones in shall/mostly shall issue counties) are breaking the law?

3. Do you have ANY proof that ANY of those Revokees have broken the law OR personally done ANYTHING to warrant a Revokation?


If I was having mine Revoked, I would Sue her and the County for not only putting myself and my family in harms way, but also for time spent (both for coming to meetings as well as qualifying for my CCW as well as time spent at the range), costs incurred (CCW firearm, holster(s), clothes, lock-boxes, ammo, county fees, ccw class, etc etc).

After I won my case, I would move to either a shall issue County or out of State.

It's too bad you guys have to put up with her until the next election.

7x57
02-10-2009, 3:22 PM
If I was having mine Revoked, I would Sue her and the County for not only putting myself and my family in harms way, but also for time spent (both for coming to meetings as well as qualifying for my CCW as well as time spent at the range), costs incurred (CCW firearm, holster(s), clothes, lock-boxes, ammo, county fees, ccw class, etc etc).

After I won my case, I would move to either a shall issue County or out of State.


How would you win? She has no obligation to protect you, I doubt any court will hold that she had any obligation to give you the privilege (there is no RKBA in CA) of protecting yourself. And the judge thinks it was a suspicious thing that you spent time and money on gun stuff, you won't get that any more than a criminal would get reimbursed for having his illegal gun taken away.

7x57

Doggboy
02-10-2009, 3:28 PM
I would Sue her and the County for not only putting myself and my family in harms way, but also for time spent (both for coming to meetings as well as qualifying for my CCW as well as time spent at the range), costs incurred (CCW firearm, holster(s), clothes, lock-boxes, ammo, county fees, ccw class, etc etc).

Don't sue, file extortion charges. She is violating a contract. The options provided are turn in your permit (which no one wants to do) or I will put a permanent mark on your record with the DOJ so you can never get a CCW again, and you will lose any security clearance you may have. Sounds like the definition of extortion to me.

Cypren
02-10-2009, 3:48 PM
It was great watching everyone speak their part. A very good job to everyone there. I'm curious how many people were there total supporting CCWs (besides the 40 speakers).

From my estimation the chamber sits about 300 people. It was packed, standing room only for the entire morning, and the overflow rooms were filled as well. When they recessed after hearing the CCW issue, I watched who was left in the hall and would say less than 20 people in the audience remained behind.

So the answer is, "a lot."

Big props to all of the speakers -- you guys did us proud and I was glad to be there to see it in person.

WeThePeople
02-10-2009, 3:51 PM
An alternative lawsuit is to contest her original appointment by the BOS. No one really complained that the BOS had the right to appoint her instead of holding an election.

The BOS might assist in this lawsuit against themselves.

Get a judge to throw her out and force an election before 2010.

M. D. Van Norman
02-10-2009, 3:55 PM
The sheriff will not win election in 2010. Meanwhile, incorporation is coming. Whoever is sheriff when it arrives will be issuing CCW licenses one way or another.

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 4:20 PM
How would you win? She has no obligation to protect you, I doubt any court will hold that she had any obligation to give you the privilege (there is no RKBA in CA) of protecting yourself. And the judge thinks it was a suspicious thing that you spent time and money on gun stuff, you won't get that any more than a criminal would get reimbursed for having his illegal gun taken away.

7x57Then have that judge disbarred.

Black Majik
02-10-2009, 4:39 PM
From my estimation the chamber sits about 300 people. It was packed, standing room only for the entire morning, and the overflow rooms were filled as well. When they recessed after hearing the CCW issue, I watched who was left in the hall and would say less than 20 people in the audience remained behind.

So the answer is, "a lot."

Big props to all of the speakers -- you guys did us proud and I was glad to be there to see it in person.

Thanks Cypren, it's great to hear the large turnout. When the first speaker went up and told everyone to stand up I remember hearing "That's a lot more than 41 speakers", but the camera didn't pan out to show everyone.

Man, I wish I was there, even though our Sheriff is thick headed. There were some moments I would have loved to see her reaction to some of the statements made.

aileron
02-10-2009, 4:53 PM
She seemed to take it on the chin pretty well. I was a few rows behind her, and could see her the whole time.

I don't think I would of done as well.

7x57
02-10-2009, 4:56 PM
Then have that judge disbarred.

By whom? The anti-gun bar association?

7x57

vrand
02-10-2009, 5:03 PM
Don't sue, file extortion charges. She is violating a contract. The options provided are turn in your permit (which no one wants to do) or I will put a permanent mark on your record with the DOJ so you can never get a CCW again, and you will lose any security clearance you may have. Sounds like the definition of extortion to me.

Interesting angle :thumbsup:

Kid Stanislaus
02-10-2009, 5:10 PM
The sheriff will not win election in 2010. Meanwhile, incorporation is coming. Whoever is sheriff when it arrives will be issuing CCW licenses one way or another.


Get real. As soon as we get a favorable ruling from the fed. courts the state legislature will weigh in with new legislation and cut it off at the knees.

Kid Stanislaus
02-10-2009, 5:11 PM
Then have that judge disbarred.


Fantasy, pure unadulterated fantasy.

J6P
02-10-2009, 5:26 PM
...

Stubby
02-10-2009, 5:34 PM
I watched the first half on video and attended the last 1 1/2 hr of the meeting. It is clear to me that the Sheriff has drawn a line in the sand and will not back down one bit. She knows the BOS do not have the will/desire to fully call her out or hold her accountable. But what the sheriff is only now beginning to understand and probably can't imagine that well is that gun owners will NOT let this go. She will be dogged, face lawsuits, and pulled back to the BOS again and again because she has poked a hornets nest!!

hotwls13
02-10-2009, 6:22 PM
How would you win? She has no obligation to protect you, I doubt any court will hold that she had any obligation to give you the privilege (there is no RKBA in CA) of protecting yourself. And the judge thinks it was a suspicious thing that you spent time and money on gun stuff, you won't get that any more than a criminal would get reimbursed for having his illegal gun taken away.

7x57

Umm, because I would have a CONTRACT with the State and the County. SHE would be the one BREAKING said contract.

You can't just walk away from a lease without damages being assessed.

The CRIMINAL was doing something AGAINST the law. I on the other hand have had rights (that were spelled out in the CONTRACT) taken away due to NO CAUSE of mine.

Are you even in the right forum?????

Your name isn't Sandy is it? lol

M. D. Van Norman
02-10-2009, 6:32 PM
Get real. As soon as we get a favorable ruling from the fed. courts the state legislature will weigh in with new legislation and cut it off at the knees.

Unless that new legislation is shall-issue licensing, then we’ll be going back to court again.

U2BassAce
02-10-2009, 7:44 PM
I watched the first half on video and attended the last 1 1/2 hr of the meeting. It is clear to me that the Sheriff has drawn a line in the sand and will not back down one bit. She knows the BOS do not have the will/desire to fully call her out or hold her accountable. But what the sheriff is only now beginning to understand and probably can't imagine that well is that gun owners will NOT let this go. She will be dogged, face lawsuits, and pulled back to the BOS again and again because she has poked a hornets nest!!

Funny. You must have the same crystal ball I have!;)

vrand
02-10-2009, 8:04 PM
Hutchens launched an internal probe...


Should read, Whitewash

hoffmang
02-10-2009, 8:07 PM
Get real. As soon as we get a favorable ruling from the fed. courts the state legislature will weigh in with new legislation and cut it off at the knees.

You don't understand how federal civil rights jurisprudence works. Go read the story of how Ohio got shall issue CCW for a portent of how things will work here.

-Gene

hawk84
02-10-2009, 8:17 PM
I think its time for an UOC walk to the Sheriff's shooting range in Orange. Provided of course that it isn't within a "gun free zone"

and by UOC i mean loaded magazines in magazine pouches but empty chambers and magwells, walk in, sign up and shoot, then save enough rounds to load the mags, holster and leave, what more visible place to show the sheriff, perhaps find a restaraunt nearby for an after party with hotdogs and rootbeer

Annie Oakley
02-10-2009, 8:25 PM
I want to apologize to everyone for not being there like i promised. Unfortunately, Murphy seemed to have decided that this was my day for everything to go wrong.

I just finished watching the video, and it seems that one single theme seemed to catch my attention. There were a number of people suggesting a recall, or a vote of no confidence by Sheriff Hutchins. I can only say that if she decides that's how she wants to be remembered, then those that can, should let her CCW policy stand for the remainder of her term in office, and encourage someone who is CCW friendly and can successfully oppose her to do so.

nick
02-10-2009, 8:32 PM
Umm, because I would have a CONTRACT with the State and the County. SHE would be the one BREAKING said contract.

You can't just walk away from a lease without damages being assessed.

The CRIMINAL was doing something AGAINST the law. I on the other hand have had rights (that were spelled out in the CONTRACT) taken away due to NO CAUSE of mine.

Are you even in the right forum?????

Your name isn't Sandy is it? lol

Umm, the Supreme court clearly stated that paying taxes doesn't constitute a social contract between a government and its subjects, er, citizens. So out basis for paying taxes is, per Supreme court, "my club is bigger than your club, so you pay, or else..." :)

vrand
02-10-2009, 8:39 PM
She'll continue to push her agenda, and she'll continue to make mistakes as she has done already. She'll continue to run afoul of the law, and she'll continue to get called on the carpet for it. This issue is far from over - today was just one day. The issue is far from settled.

Yep :thumbsup:

RomanDad
02-10-2009, 8:41 PM
I want to apologize to everyone for not being there like i promised. Unfortunately, Murphy seemed to have decided that this was my day for everything to go wrong.

I just finished watching the video, and it seems that one single theme seemed to catch my attention. There were a number of people suggesting a recall, or a vote of no confidence by Sheriff Hutchins. I can only say that if she decides that's how she wants to be remembered, then those that can, should let her CCW policy stand for the remainder of her term in office, and encourage someone who is CCW friendly and can successfully oppose her to do so.

OK.... I keep hearing a question as to why we do what we do and what were hoping to accomplish.

Goal 1. Get the Sheriff to voluntarily "see the light" to "make us go away" and adopt a better policy.

Goal 2. Failing goal 1, get the people who appointed to persuade her to goal #1.

Goal 3. Failing goal 2, making her so politically toxic that he supporters distance themselves for her, thus crippling any reelection hopes.

Goal 4. Continue to pressure her to cause her to make the rookie screw ups she seems so plagued to make, and rapping those failures around her neck like an anchor come June 2010.

Goal 5. Becoming a political force in the county that local politicians fear and respect, and giving us a voice at the table when future candidates are selected.


We are already accomplishing several of these goals. A recall is a possibility, but incredibly costly and UNLIKELY. So is the option of her resigning. There are other legal issues that are in the works that may influence BOTH of those. However, relying on these is like deciding in August that youre going to win the super bowl on a last second hail mary, and then only practicing that play all year long.... Id rather just play good ball, run up the score on my opponents and not have to rely on the one in a million play.

hawk84
02-10-2009, 8:43 PM
Umm, the Supreme court clearly stated that paying taxes doesn't constitute a social contract between a government and its subjects, er, citizens. So out basis for paying taxes is, per Supreme court, "my club is bigger than your club, so you pay, or else..." :)
i believe by "contract" he is referring to his CCW which spells out a start date, a finish date, terms of use, etc etc etc

tom_92673
02-10-2009, 8:56 PM
Here's a concern. She knows she's most likely out in OC, but she can get a lot of mileage out of this, claiming to stand by her convictions and uphold the law, while appeasing the anti's looking eventually for a spot in Sacramento. She's just the type to run for some elected position using the anti gun thing as her platform. Then she can screw with us from a different role. A lot of negativity needs to follow her from this job. It's not enough to vote her out. She needs to have a stink attached to her so she can't do any more damage in an elected capacity.

RomanDad
02-10-2009, 8:59 PM
Here's a concern. She knows she's most likely out in OC, but she can get a lot of mileage out of this, claiming to stand by her convictions and uphold the law, while appeasing the anti's looking eventually for a spot in Sacramento. She's just the type to run for some elected position using the anti gun thing as her platform. Then she can screw with us from a different role. A lot of negativity needs to follow her from this job. It's not enough to vote her out. She needs to have a stink attached to her so she can't do any more damage in an elected capacity.

One thing at a time....

Listen, if she gets handed this gig, a job that people beg, borrow and steal to get, only to **** IT UP THIS ROYALLY... SO BADLY THAT SHE GETS TOSSED OUT ON HER *** AFTER LESS THAN ONE TERM, her future political aspirations are on par with Nixon's after Watergate

tom_92673
02-10-2009, 9:08 PM
One thing at a time....

Listen, if she gets handed this gig, a job that people beg, borrow and steal to get, only to **** IT UP THIS ROYALLY... SO BADLY THAT SHE GETS TOSSED OUT ON HER *** AFTER LESS THAN ONE TERM, her future political aspirations are on par with Nixon's after Watergate

In a normal world, I'd totally agree with that. But, this is California. We have the highest taxes in the country and the biggest budget deficit. Logic doesn't come into play here. She could paint herself as a victim of an old boys network where she did what was right and was crucified for it. She's now a martyr for the Anti's to stand behind. We need to show mismanagement, disregard for civil rights, spying on the BOS and make that her legacy, not this ccw issue.

Liberty1
02-10-2009, 9:08 PM
You don't understand how federal civil rights jurisprudence works. Go read the story of how Ohio got shall issue CCW for a portent of how things will work here.

-Gene

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Defense-Walks-Make-History-in-Ohio


http://californiaopencarry.org/ :cool2:

7x57
02-10-2009, 9:08 PM
Umm, because I would have a CONTRACT with the State and the County. SHE would be the one BREAKING said contract.


I don't believe any court will so hold, and unless one of The Right People tell me this approach has even a chance I'm just ignoring the "I have a contract" fantasy. It does sound like a good basis for precisely the sort of bad lawsuit that *everyone* is trying to convince people not to bring lest we totally screw up.


The CRIMINAL was doing something AGAINST the law. I on the other hand have had rights (that were spelled out in the CONTRACT) taken away due to NO CAUSE of mine.


Nope. You had an undeserved, unearned privilege, offered to you by your patron the state. It was solely at the discretion of the proper officer of the state, and if that officer choose to revoke the permit then there is no recourse.

That's what it is like living in an unfree state where you have no right to self-defense, only whatever the state thinks might be good policy and in its interest.

7x57

vrand
02-10-2009, 9:11 PM
One thing at a time....

Listen, if she gets handed this gig, a job that people beg, borrow and steal to get, only to **** IT UP THIS ROYALLY... SO BADLY THAT SHE GETS TOSSED OUT ON HER *** AFTER LESS THAN ONE TERM, her future political aspirations are on par with Nixon's after Watergate

I'm In :thumbsup:

hoffmang
02-10-2009, 9:11 PM
She has the right to revoke. She doesn't have the right to unilaterally modify. Constructively forcing you to accept her unilateral modification is likely a violation of due process.

It's not a simple case, but it is a winnable case. Whether its a case that should be brought is something I'd want to brainstorm with a few more of the right people.

-Gene

kap
02-10-2009, 9:22 PM
You don't understand how federal civil rights jurisprudence works. Go read the story of how Ohio got shall issue CCW for a portent of how things will work here.

-Gene

Do you have a link or source for this?

7x57
02-10-2009, 9:27 PM
She has the right to revoke. She doesn't have the right to unilaterally modify. Constructively forcing you to accept her unilateral modification is likely a violation of due process.

It's not a simple case, but it is a winnable case. Whether its a case that should be brought is something I'd want to brainstorm with a few more of the right people.


Great. Then she'd be better off just revoking and leaving that on people's records.

7x57

Liberty1
02-10-2009, 9:31 PM
You don't understand how federal civil rights jurisprudence works. Go read the story of how Ohio got shall issue CCW for a portent of how things will work here.

-Gene

Do you have a link or source for this?
...
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Defense-Walks-Make-History-in-Ohio


http://californiaopencarry.org/ :cool2:

In the Fall of 2003, after an Ohio Supreme Court decision that upheld a 150-year-old ban on concealed carry, local organizers in several Ohio cities began holding 'Defense' Walks, at which local activists interested in protesting Governor Bob Taft's obstruction of concealed carry legislative reform "openly carry" their sidearms on a walk through the neighborhood.

'Defense' Walks offered a "visual display" of the choice Ohioans and legislators had before them as a result of the Supreme Court ruling: open carry, with no training, background checks or "defenseless victim" zones, as was current law; OR a more subtle form of exercising the right to self-defense - concealed carry, as would eventually be made law with passage of House Bill 12. The Ohio Supreme Court had upheld the practice of "open carry" in Klein v. Leis. These walks demonstrated to Republican leaders who had been obstructing the legislation in the name of "party solidarity", as Ohio Sen. Carnes put it, that Ohioans were ready and willing to exercise their fundamental right to bear arms for self-defense by carrying firearms openly.

yellowfin
02-10-2009, 9:42 PM
She could paint herself as a victim of an old boys network where she did what was right and was crucified for it. She's now a martyr for the Anti's to stand behind.
Then we get to doing what we should have done decades ago and crucify them right along with her. Their doctrine of mandatory defenselessness is reprehensible and inexcusable.

eflatminor
02-10-2009, 9:45 PM
...


In the Fall of 2003, after an Ohio Supreme Court decision that upheld a 150-year-old ban on concealed carry, local organizers in several Ohio cities began holding 'Defense' Walks, at which local activists interested in protesting Governor Bob Taft's obstruction of concealed carry legislative reform "openly carry" their sidearms on a walk through the neighborhood.

'Defense' Walks offered a "visual display" of the choice Ohioans and legislators had before them as a result of the Supreme Court ruling: open carry, with no training, background checks or "defenseless victim" zones, as was current law; OR a more subtle form of exercising the right to self-defense - concealed carry, as would eventually be made law with passage of House Bill 12. The Ohio Supreme Court had upheld the practice of "open carry" in Klein v. Leis. These walks demonstrated to Republican leaders who had been obstructing the legislation in the name of "party solidarity", as Ohio Sen. Carnes put it, that Ohioans were ready and willing to exercise their fundamental right to bear arms for self-defense by carrying firearms openly.

So when shall we meet, en mass, all UOC'ing? Maybe outside the sheriff's office or better yet, down the residential street where she lives. Imagine a hundred or more people enjoying a walk on a nice afternoon. Wouldn't the news crews just eat that up?

vrand
02-10-2009, 9:47 PM
...


In the Fall of 2003, after an Ohio Supreme Court decision that upheld a 150-year-old ban on concealed carry, local organizers in several Ohio cities began holding 'Defense' Walks, at which local activists interested in protesting Governor Bob Taft's obstruction of concealed carry legislative reform "openly carry" their sidearms on a walk through the neighborhood.

'Defense' Walks offered a "visual display" of the choice Ohioans and legislators had before them as a result of the Supreme Court ruling: open carry, with no training, background checks or "defenseless victim" zones, as was current law; OR a more subtle form of exercising the right to self-defense - concealed carry, as would eventually be made law with passage of House Bill 12. The Ohio Supreme Court had upheld the practice of "open carry" in Klein v. Leis. These walks demonstrated to Republican leaders who had been obstructing the legislation in the name of "party solidarity", as Ohio Sen. Carnes put it, that Ohioans were ready and willing to exercise their fundamental right to bear arms for self-defense by carrying firearms openly.

Interesting :thumbsup:

Maybe this can be done here in Southern/Northern California :thumbsup:

Liberty1
02-10-2009, 9:51 PM
So when shall we meet, en mass, all UOC'ing? Maybe outside the sheriff's office or better yet, down the residential street where she lives. Imagine a hundred or more people enjoying a walk on a nice afternoon. Wouldn't the news crews just eat that up?


Timing and support. I'll just say not yet. Let the OCCCWS efforts / events take their course. And lets read Nordyke when it comes down. If individuals need to UOC for personal protection issues during their daily routine or for a dinner meet up for fellowship etc... I would not discourage that.

Taking the steps you outlined would be fun but not what is needed just now and not as aggressively suggested. That would play into her hands and they don't need that right now.

Let Orange County become a little more educated on the greater issues. We are ahead of our time by a little bit.

But I do like your style.;)

hoffmang
02-10-2009, 10:03 PM
As many of us have said here before - it is not yet time to UOC in a large way yet.

Post incorporation and post a court challenge to 12031/may issue, then we might reach the right time if things don't go our way.

-Gene

kap
02-10-2009, 10:06 PM
Thanks for the info. Seems like Ohio had one up on us by having OCing rights already. When the time comes for some UOCing in our neighborhoods we should get organized.

Something like this might work. We got you covered ...
n-twE4ep33I