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glockfu
02-07-2009, 5:38 PM
I am seriously considering opening a gun store. I've always wanted to open a store but was never sure about what kind of store. I think I've decided on a gun store. How are profits from a gun store compared to any other retail business?

ohsmily
02-07-2009, 5:44 PM
Prediction: When you find out what is entailed in opening a gun store in CA, especially in a major city, you will quickly desist.

Prediction 2: You will not open a gun store.

Prediction 3: If you do open a gun store, Calgunners will flock there if you sell OLLs and understand current CA law.

thermafill
02-07-2009, 5:47 PM
I am seriously considering opening a gun store. I've always wanted to open a store but was never sure about what kind of store. I think I've decided on a gun store. How are profits from a gun store compared to any other retail business?

you have our support if you open one. All the gun stores right now are busier than ever. Open one up in socal! :p

Can'thavenuthingood
02-07-2009, 6:19 PM
Get yourself a couple of legal pads and scratch out a business plan. It will take awhile to complete. Lots of reseach and government interfacing.

The last line on the last page will tell you if you are destined to sell guns or popsickles.

File for your FFL and COE now. Might just do an 03 FFL C&R to see if they uncover anything about you that you ought to know about.

Then go see the planning commission (bring money) and tell them what you want to do.

Legal pad, pencils, calculator and perseverance.

Vick

Glock30
02-07-2009, 6:20 PM
From what i've heard, gun stores profits are very small. You have to put in alot of work to please customers and you're only making $10-100.

It's still a sweet setup, if you have the gut for it, do it!

FortCourageArmory
02-07-2009, 6:23 PM
How do you make a small fortune in the gun business?



Start with a LARGE one!!!

FortCourageArmory
02-07-2009, 6:35 PM
OK, now the serious reply. You'll find your profit margins from as low as 5% on some items up to 50% on others. I wish all the 50% profit margins were on all high dollar items, but it's just not the case. That being said, I make a comfortable living selling guns. Not rich, just comfortable. It also keeps me from having to get a real job!! :) And what ohsmily said is correct. At least Item #3. Calgunners will flock to you if you deal in OLLs and know the law. If you handle internet transfers for a reasonable fee, you'll do good business.

As for opening a store, your first stop is to get a storefront. The ATF won't even consider a new application without a storefront. The second thing is you need to be in the business of dealing firearms to make a profit. The ATF will also not even consider your application unless that is your reason form wanting an FFL. Next, go to your local plannig commission and find out what their requirements are for opening a gun store including what permits the city requires. Once you know that and can meet them, apply for your FFL with ATF. Mine took about 30 days from first interview to having my FFL in hand. Once you have that, apply for your city permit(s). When you have those in hand, apply with CA DOJ to get on the centralized dealer listing. That should give you a good start in deciding if this is what you want to do. If it is, I wish you luck. PM me if I can answer any other questions for you.

Capt. Speirs
02-07-2009, 7:08 PM
I think the mistake some make in opening up a gun shop is they stick to guns only. You need to see what the market is as far as what else you can offer in your store in your area. I would also recommend a "Kitchen Table FFL" at first to wet your feet, then transfer your FFL to "Brick and Mortar" or get another FFL for the new address. Selling guns is not what makes you rich, guns are the bait, the rest is where the money is at. I am currently in the process of applying for an FFL, let me tell you it is not for the faint at heart, you have to be vigilant and persistant, not with the ATF as much as with the State.

FortCourageArmory
02-07-2009, 7:13 PM
I think the mistake some make in opening up a gun shop is they stick to guns only. You need to see what the market is as far as what else you can offer in your store in your area. I would also recommend a "Kitchen Table FFL" at first to wet your feet, then transfer your FFL to "Brick and Mortar" or get another FFL for the new address. Selling guns is not what makes you rich, guns are the bait, the rest is where the money is at.
Re-read my 2nd paragraph above. The only way to get a "kitchen table FFL" out of the ATF is to live far enough away from civilzation (50+ miles from your house to the nearest town of ANY size) that opening a brick and mortar store is impractical. The Clinton Administration went out of it's way to eliminate 90% of those kitchen table FFLs. It won't fly these days.

Capt. Speirs
02-07-2009, 7:15 PM
Re-read my 2nd paragraph above. The only way to get a "kitchen table FFL" out of the ATF is to live far enough away from civilzation (50+ miles from your house to the nearest town of ANY size) that opening a brick and mortar store is impractical. The Clinton Administration went out of it's way to eliminate 90% of those kitchen table FFLs. It won't fly these days.

Not true, I live in a city of 80,000 plus.

FortCourageArmory
02-07-2009, 7:24 PM
Then you are more than a little lucky. Dealing with the L. A. ATF, you would have been shot down in a fast minute.

anthonyca
02-07-2009, 7:41 PM
I think the mistake some make in opening up a gun shop is they stick to guns only. You need to see what the market is as far as what else you can offer in your store in your area. I would also recommend a "Kitchen Table FFL" at first to wet your feet, then transfer your FFL to "Brick and Mortar" or get another FFL for the new address. Selling guns is not what makes you rich, guns are the bait, the rest is where the money is at. I am currently in the process of applying for an FFL, let me tell you it is not for the faint at heart, you have to be vigilant and persistant, not with the ATF as much as with the State.

Let us know how that goes. Applying for and FFL and having a FFL are a world apart. I really hope you get it. You have some big b@$@ for going for your dreams. Good luck.

SDgarrick
02-07-2009, 7:42 PM
GlockFu, where are you located?

glockfu
02-08-2009, 1:27 AM
I'm located in Northern California. I've talked to a couple of business loan officers and am starting to explore options. It's been a life long dream to own a buisiness (I'm not that old) and I'm not afraid of hard work to get this thing started. I know there's a lot of hoops to jump through but I'm not too worried about them. I'm more concerned with the long term which is why I'm curious to see how this industry would compare to others.

If profitability is comparable to average retailers, I'm going for it. I've been looking for something to jump into for quite sometime now. Other interests I've had I found to be not very profitable by talking to the folks in the business. So, that's why I wanted to get feedback from people directly in this industry.

glockfu
02-08-2009, 1:31 AM
OK, now the serious reply. You'll find your profit margins from as low as 5% on some items up to 50% on others. I wish all the 50% profit margins were on all high dollar items, but it's just not the case. That being said, I make a comfortable living selling guns. Not rich, just comfortable. It also keeps me from having to get a real job!! :) And what ohsmily said is correct. At least Item #3. Calgunners will flock to you if you deal in OLLs and know the law. If you handle internet transfers for a reasonable fee, you'll do good business.

As for opening a store, your first stop is to get a storefront. The ATF won't even consider a new application without a storefront. The second thing is you need to be in the business of dealing firearms to make a profit. The ATF will also not even consider your application unless that is your reason form wanting an FFL. Next, go to your local plannig commission and find out what their requirements are for opening a gun store including what permits the city requires. Once you know that and can meet them, apply for your FFL with ATF. Mine took about 30 days from first interview to having my FFL in hand. Once you have that, apply for your city permit(s). When you have those in hand, apply with CA DOJ to get on the centralized dealer listing. That should give you a good start in deciding if this is what you want to do. If it is, I wish you luck. PM me if I can answer any other questions for you.

Thanks, you may be hearing from me soon. ;)

Franksremote
02-08-2009, 2:45 AM
As FCA said, make sure the city you wanna storefront in is ok with issuing your city permits before securing your lease, etc. for the storefront. I had a friend who was told no problems only to get his FFL and have the city refuse the local permit which of course means no state permits which really just = a big waste of time and money.

If you plan on selling/buying used guns, don't forget applications for your secondhand dealer's license in addition to the usual federal, state and local ones.

Lotsa BS to jump through, but if you can plan it properly and do your homework first, you may be able to limit the headaches as well as the initial out of pocket expenses. It can take upto 6 months to square all the permits away and you have to secure the lease for the storefront first, so plan/save/budget accordingly.

Might wanna work/volunteer at one of your local shops to see if this is the business type for you. TMs always hiring.

Good luck, it's always nice to follow your dreams.

Frank

AJAX22
02-08-2009, 4:18 AM
Because of how difficult it is to obtain inventory right now you might want to wait a bit before getting into the firearms buisness.

FortCourageArmory
02-08-2009, 7:13 AM
If you plan on selling/buying used guns, don't forget applications for your secondhand dealer's license in addition to the usual federal, state and local ones.
I've found that not every city requires this state-issued permit to sell used guns. Worth looking into with your local city PD. Just another hurdle to clear.....

tenpercentfirearms
02-08-2009, 7:30 AM
I don't know what other retailers are like, but I know I make anywhere from about 15% to about 40% on the vast majority of my product. I can make up to 100%, but that is rare and those are definitely not large ticket items.

The one thing no one is talking about that they should be is the paperwork. Not the usual paperwork of inventory and finance. The entire complex paperwork involved in selling guns.

If I could do another business where I made 100% profit or more without having to comply with hundreds of state and federal laws at the risk of committing misdemeanors and felonies, I would not be in the gun business.

And right now would be an interesting time to get into the business. I would think finding product to sell might be rather tough.

I know my gun shop will never fail. However, I also have another full time job so it is not my main source of income and it is a good thing as everything gets poured back into inventory and a new building. The only way I will lose my gunshop is if the regulatory agencies shut me down (which I try hard on the paperwork to prevent that) or I just get so tired of it that I quit.

And the very first thing you need to do is find a building location and ask your local business license agency if it is zoned for a gun shop. Do not even bother filling out your ATF Form 7 until you get local approval.

DirtSailor
02-08-2009, 8:54 AM
From a customer's standpoint: of my two favorite gun stores to go into when I lived in OC one had a re-loading/gunsmithing supply area in the back, the other had a huge selection of "other stuff," camping gear, clothing, etc.

I usually didn't buy guns from the store with the re-loading/gunsmithing supplies because of the poor customer service of the guys behind the counter. But they were close by and I would go in there to pick up supplies.

This should go for any business you get into, but... don't forget customer service, especially on the part of your employees. I think a lot of people on this list go out of thier way to go to store that have good customer service, often passing closer stores because of bad customer service (I know I do).

garandguy10
02-08-2009, 11:48 AM
OK, now the serious reply. You'll find your profit margins from as low as 5% on some items up to 50% on others. I wish all the 50% profit margins were on all high dollar items, but it's just not the case. That being said, I make a comfortable living selling guns. Not rich, just comfortable. It also keeps me from having to get a real job!! :) And what ohsmily said is correct. At least Item #3. Calgunners will flock to you if you deal in OLLs and know the law. If you handle internet transfers for a reasonable fee, you'll do good business.

As for opening a store, your first stop is to get a storefront. The ATF won't even consider a new application without a storefront. The second thing is you need to be in the business of dealing firearms to make a profit. The ATF will also not even consider your application unless that is your reason form wanting an FFL. Next, go to your local plannig commission and find out what their requirements are for opening a gun store including what permits the city requires. Once you know that and can meet them, apply for your FFL with ATF. Mine took about 30 days from first interview to having my FFL in hand. Once you have that, apply for your city permit(s). When you have those in hand, apply with CA DOJ to get on the centralized dealer listing. That should give you a good start in deciding if this is what you want to do. If it is, I wish you luck. PM me if I can answer any other questions for you.

The first thing that you want to do is contact your city and/or county zoning and license department to see if they will issue you a business license for retail/wholesale firearms sales in whatever location[storefront or your home] you are thinking about. The Feds and the State have no problems at all with issuing a license to a home or storefront firearms dealer as long as you are in compliance with all local/county zoning laws. Make sure that you home or place of business is at least 1000 ft away from any type of school.

I have been a fully licensed "kitchen table" FFL dealer since 1996. wholsale only though,I do not deal with the public,dont ask,I do not do transfers or deal with OLL.

audihenry
02-08-2009, 1:07 PM
With commercial real estate also in trouble, it would be easier now than before to get a landlord on board with a gun store.

ohsmily
02-08-2009, 5:07 PM
I do not deal with OLL.

Why?

Bongos
02-08-2009, 9:26 PM
When I worked at Turners ages ago, profit margin on guns average 10%, where the money was at was the accessories and ammo, 40-300% was not uncommon, hey you had to get a cheap holster for your SA 1911, what they did not know was the $15 holster 's cost was $4.39

glockfu
02-09-2009, 10:56 PM
What's the average mark up on ammo?

joemama
02-09-2009, 11:26 PM
so what were the initial startup costs for you guys? How much out of pocket expenses did it take before you actually started turning a profit and were able to support yourselves with just the shop, or do many of you have a second job like tenpercent? Sounds like a lot of work but a rewarding business because its a hobby as well.

randy
02-09-2009, 11:45 PM
Good luck I hope you make a million bucks.

glockfu
02-10-2009, 8:58 AM
Good luck I hope you make a million bucks.

Ummm yea.... and that's what the this thread is about... making a million bucks? :nuts: Thanks for the brilliant contribution :thumbsup:

glockfu
02-10-2009, 9:02 AM
How is current availability from wholesellers on the more common items like Glocks, Sigs, HK's, Rugers, etc...

Sounds like there might be a bit of a back order but are we talking a couple weeks or more like 6 months?

xrMike
02-10-2009, 9:20 AM
I don't know what other retailers are like, but I know I make anywhere from about 15% to about 40% on the vast majority of my product.Shouldn't you be called "Fifteen to Forty Percent Firearms" then? :D

randy
02-10-2009, 10:43 AM
Well I guess you could start on your customer service first. I wish you good luck and hope you make a bunch of money and you bag on me. Great start.

glockfu
02-10-2009, 11:06 AM
Well I guess you could start on your customer service first. I wish you good luck and hope you make a bunch of money and you bag on me. Great start.

Sorry if you weren't being sarcastic, I took it as a sarcastic remark... things get lost in traslation over the internet.

Paradiddle
02-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Sorry if you weren't being sarcastic, I took it as a sarcastic remark... things get lost in traslation over the internet.

Randy's a great guy - he meant what he said.

Frankly - why wouldn't you want to make a million dollars - that really isn't that much money.

glockfu
02-10-2009, 1:21 PM
Randy's a great guy - he meant what he said.

Frankly - why wouldn't you want to make a million dollars - that really isn't that much money.

Yea I apologize for that... my mistake.

Of course I want to make a million dollars but to expect that from a new business in profits would be an unrealistic goal. But hey, I'd take it :D

randy
02-10-2009, 1:58 PM
No Big deal good luck. I hope it works out for you because we all win.

Paradiddle
02-10-2009, 2:56 PM
Yea I apologize for that... my mistake.

Of course I want to make a million dollars but to expect that from a new business in profits would be an unrealistic goal. But hey, I'd take it :D

Just put your pinky in your mouth and say "one million dollars"..... :D :D :D

The best of luck you!

tenpercentfirearms
02-10-2009, 7:56 PM
Shouldn't you be called "Fifteen to Forty Percent Firearms" then? :D

No, I tithe ten percent. Why in the hell does everyone think I only charge 10% over cost? :shrug:

laguns
02-10-2009, 8:59 PM
I really don't have any advice for you but I would like to wish you the best of luck.

eccvets
02-10-2009, 11:47 PM
I agree, you hit it on the head! better yet, if you do transfers at a resonable rate you'll get even more people to come in. Don't be like turners and charge 120-150 dollars for them when others are charging 35 bucks.




Prediction: When you find out what is entailed in opening a gun store in CA, especially in a major city, you will quickly desist.

Prediction 2: You will not open a gun store.

Prediction 3: If you do open a gun store, Calgunners will flock there if you sell OLLs and understand current CA law.

artherd
02-11-2009, 1:06 AM
Easy - start with $2mil ;)

Gun business has to be one of the worst - low profits and insane regulation combined with hostile municipalities.

I've been tempted to do one right, but in the end I'd likely be better off blowing it all on strippers.

Good luck I hope you make a million bucks.

tenpercentfirearms
02-11-2009, 3:28 AM
I agree, you hit it on the head! better yet, if you do transfers at a resonable rate you'll get even more people to come in. Don't be like turners and charge 120-150 dollars for them when others are charging 35 bucks.

Search some of my old threads and you will see my opinion is transfer customers are not going to be your best customers. Most of them are cheap skates who are not going to buy anything else from you. They will talk a good game online, but when it comes down to it, they just want to your cheap transfer services and they will drive a hundred miles to save $10, so they aren't going to buy anything you have.

For profit, set your transfer in the medium to high range and then use a carrot like "buy any other long gun from me and get your transfer for free." Or don't sweat it on regular customers and knock the price down. Mine is currently at $50 plus $25. If some cheapskate wants to go use a guy who charges less and they don't like me for it, no problem. You will see with due time, unless you want to specialize in transfers, they are not a money maker by any means.

Like Ben said, he would rather spend his money on strippers as his time is valuable. I am up at 4:28 AM because my wife wanted me home last night and now I have to return to the shop before work to get some more crap done. It never ends. If you get into this, you will see.

savageevo
02-11-2009, 7:14 AM
Im into manufacturing and If you plan on getting ahead, try making a product unique to your store. Look at ADDEX, His niche is the gpu unit. If you can invent something that people want you will be a step ahead of everyone else. There are a lot of machine shops that are hurting and wanting business. You can start off by selling items here without even having an FFL yet. I just want to say good luck and I pray you open a store.

wildhawker
02-11-2009, 7:44 AM
Easy - start with $2mil ;)

Gun business has to be one of the worst - low profits and insane regulation combined with hostile municipalities.

I've been tempted to do one right, but in the end I'd likely be better off blowing it all on strippers.

Heavy construction and gun shops... birds of a feather. At least with strippers you're less likely of being tossed into jail... unless you're at Duke.

AngelDecoys
02-11-2009, 9:28 AM
I am seriously considering opening a gun store. I've always wanted to open a store but was never sure about what kind of store. How are profits compared to any other retail business?

Not being an FFL, I've resisted responding to your thread for a few days but there are a few observations I'd like to throw into the pot with regards to retail in general. Maybe they apply, maybe not.

1. If you don't already have seed money (or have never operated a store), really consider seeing if an owner of a local store wouldn't mind you hanging around for a few days and asking questions. It's in your best interest in knowing as much as you can before making the leap.

2. Were it me, I'd start with an online component first. Personally, I don't see a new traditional store doing well without an online sales component. The buy in for an online store can range from little to thousands but its still negligible when compared to opening a brick and mortar store. There are several venders here who began that way, then augmented their business with getting an FFL and opening a store front. You might PM a few and see what pitfalls they encountered in doing it that way.

The obvious benefits (if out of your garage/apartment) include less overhead, the ability to re-funnel profits into building up inventory, making connections, and getting your reputation established. That's a slower method, but also might be safer then right out opening a store.

Question you might ask. What percentage of total revenue do online sales provide for the FFL's here? Enough to pay for your rent every month? Enough to pay for insurance, enough for your 401k? If you PM some of the sponsors at this site, that might offer something else to think about.

3. Find the venue you want to be the expert in for your area. If that's OLL's, be sure the area isn't already saturated with FFL's that do them. Personally, I think the online market for OLL merchandise is somewhat saturated, but there's probably plenty of business to go around for all I know.

4. Transfers. If selling firearms will be the main source of your income, $25 transfers won't keep you afloat depending on your area. I still think if you do them cheaply, that will increase foot traffic (which most businesses depend on). This of course, all depends on the business model you're looking for. Example, I know an FFL who runs a camping/fishing store. As he points out, the outdoor equipment/fishing gear makes the majority of his income so he doesn't rely on the firearm sales to pay the bills (He relies on increased foot traffic which the firearms section brings in).

5. Lastly, do you belong to a range and are you an active member? At my range, there's a member who has become the club FFL. While he deals primarily with cowboy action types of firearms (his niche), he's the guy many of us associate with to buy firearms (and reloading supplies) before going someplace else. Just something to think about......

Good luck and wish you the best of success in your endeavors.

CSACANNONEER
02-11-2009, 1:07 PM
Having been in and around the industry for a 20+ years, I'll put in my two cents worth. Gun sales is one of the few, if not the only retail industry where even the semi-educated customer knows the wholesale price of most firearms. We can thank Shotgun News for that. So, many of these semi-educated customers feel that you, as their local FFL, should sell a gun to them at the price they see distributors advertising them for. Truely educated customers realize that there are shipping costs as well as all the other overhead costs and even some profit tacked on before they get the gun. Unfortunately, there are very few truely educated customers around. One of the best ways to be able to make a profit from gun sales is to really know your stuff and deal in used firearms as much as possible. You can normally buy them low enough to make anywhere from 20%-100% or more profit. Once, I saw a shop in Reno offer a guy $20 for a $150 .22 rifle. That's a 750% mark up. Also, depending on where you want to open a shop and how much you want to invest in inventory, I'd suggest stocking a good supply of reloading equipment and components. That will draw many regular shooters into your store on a regular basis. But, before you decide to go through with this, spend some time on calguns reading all the complaints about various FFLs. Many of the complaints I've read here have come from the semi-educated people who don't believe that an FFL should be entitled to make a profit legally. Remember, this is the mentality of a large part of your potential customer base. Good luck!

Salty
02-11-2009, 6:17 PM
I know nothing of the firearms industry, but if I were to get into some type of retail operation I would most likely get my feet wet with an online operation and then transition into a brick and mortar shop. That way you know the ins and outs of your supply chain and get a better feel for your customer base before really putting your self out there. Obviously working at a shop on the weekends or after work would help you gain valuable experience as well.

glockfu
02-11-2009, 7:32 PM
I would plan on selling accessories and any parts that I could find inventory on while I am awaiting my FFL. I think I will start here and sell mostly online to pay the bills of the store front while I'm waiting for all permits and licenses. My plan of attack would be to first get my business license so I could start stocking and locating accessories and parts (doesnt matter which city), then contact the cities in the area I'm looking at setting up shop and seeing which cities would allow this type of business. I would then need to find a place to lease in order to apply for the FFL license. I don't really plan on having it open for business until I can get that all straightend out.

I would definately want to work from home or online starting out but it sounds like it's pretty tough to get an FFL without a store front. I was doing a bit more digging and found that it's not due to ATF not issuing a "kitchen table FFL" but more of state and local laws that restrict this and thus make it uncommon and harder to get. I live in a big city so I'm pretty sure this will not fly here.

You guys are giving me some great ideas in areas I can get started and should invest in. Please keep them coming...

I was also thinking of having a good portion of time being spent on getting items that aren't readily seen here in California. I think there are a decent amount of people that would pay a bit more to purchase something on the spot and local where they don't have to jump through hoops to get into the state. I know I did this on a few purchases and it's a pain in the arse. I sure would have paid a bit more to just purchase on the spot. What do you guys think?

glockfu
02-12-2009, 9:27 AM
So... you want to be a Nor Cal PRK Arms?

I didn't think of it like that because they definately come out with some amazing toys but, yes that would be ideal but realistically I don't think I'll be on that level for a bit... Unless this NRF thing gets underway :43:

Which brings me to my next question. How much harder is it to get an 07 FFL vs. 03 FFL?

JaMail
03-03-2010, 7:05 AM
ive thought about this on and off for a few years, after talking with the guys at T&A, the biggest hurdle seems to be finding the storefront and paying the lease on a place you cant even operate out of for months before all the licenses get setup.

zman
03-03-2010, 7:34 AM
I am seriously considering opening a gun store. I've always wanted to open a store but was never sure about what kind of store. I think I've decided on a gun store. How are profits from a gun store compared to any other retail business?

You could just buy an existing business too like what happened to Ade's in Orange. The owner of Last Stand Guns in Temecula was looking for a buyer recently. Skip all the hassles and dive right in :43:

xrMike
03-03-2010, 8:25 AM
Nice necro action!

No, I tithe ten percent. Why in the hell does everyone think I only charge 10% over cost? :shrug:

Because that was your claimed policy when you first opened your business. You said your profit margin would be limited to 10%, hence your name -- 10% Firearms. I remember you stating so publicly, here on Calguns.

Yeah, somewhere mid-stream you decided you couldn't stay in business with that policy, and so you changed it. But not the name. :D

If my recollection is wrong, then please tell me how your business name was derived. Thanks.

BTW, I wish you still sold online. I bought stuff from you several times, and would still be today, if I could, regardless of your profit margin. But you are too far away.

GrayWolf09
03-03-2010, 8:50 AM
OK, now the serious reply. You'll find your profit margins from as low as 5% on some items up to 50% on others. I wish all the 50% profit margins were on all high dollar items, but it's just not the case. That being said, I make a comfortable living selling guns. Not rich, just comfortable. It also keeps me from having to get a real job!! :) And what ohsmily said is correct. At least Item #3. Calgunners will flock to you if you deal in OLLs and know the law. If you handle internet transfers for a reasonable fee, you'll do good business.

As for opening a store, your first stop is to get a storefront. The ATF won't even consider a new application without a storefront. The second thing is you need to be in the business of dealing firearms to make a profit. The ATF will also not even consider your application unless that is your reason form wanting an FFL. Next, go to your local plannig commission and find out what their requirements are for opening a gun store including what permits the city requires. Once you know that and can meet them, apply for your FFL with ATF. Mine took about 30 days from first interview to having my FFL in hand. Once you have that, apply for your city permit(s). When you have those in hand, apply with CA DOJ to get on the centralized dealer listing. That should give you a good start in deciding if this is what you want to do. If it is, I wish you luck. PM me if I can answer any other questions for you.

Great post. I learned a lot!

CalNRA
03-03-2010, 1:26 PM
Nice necro action!



Because that was your claimed policy when you first opened your business. You said your profit margin would be limited to 10%, hence your name -- 10% Firearms. I remember you stating so publicly, here on Calguns.

Yeah, somewhere mid-stream you decided you couldn't stay in business with that policy, and so you changed it. But not the name. :D

If my recollection is wrong, then please tell me how your business name was derived. Thanks.

BTW, I wish you still sold online. I bought stuff from you several times, and would still be today, if I could, regardless of your profit margin. But you are too far away.

there ya go


If you don't like the way gun shops run, go get your license and open one up. I did. I even naively named it 10% Firearms. Guess how long that lasted? I spend way too much time on this to make just 10%. Again, FFLs aren't abusing any power. They are making money and in this capitalist society, that is the way it goes. If you don't like it, open up your own FFL or eliminate the governments who place restrictions on private business and raise the prices.

10% is waaaay too low of a margin to live on, so I don't hold it against the redhead at all. Dealing with the Feds, DOJ, and local pencil pushers all take time and energy, and last time I checked no gun store is a public service provider.

All the disturbing pictures that the proprietor of 10%firearms has posted on this site however may be used as leverage to "persuade" him into giving you some good deals. :D

Table Rock Arms
03-03-2010, 8:02 PM
I didn't think of it like that because they definately come out with some amazing toys but, yes that would be ideal but realistically I don't think I'll be on that level for a bit... Unless this NRF thing gets underway :43:

Which brings me to my next question. How much harder is it to get an 07 FFL vs. 03 FFL?

I do not have an FFL, however I am getting started in the process of getting a 07 FFL in Oregon. Zoning is huge. I have a property in a light industrial area, but it is not enough. I am gonna have to re zone the property in order to do it. It all depends on where you live. If you live in an area with no zoning issues it may be pretty easy, but I wouldn't count on it. As for the 03 FFL it sounds like just about anybody can get one.

omnitravis
01-29-2015, 4:01 PM
So, I was pondering this recently. I rent a home, I was just reading the first few posts about zoning laws and all that extremely fun stuff, would I need to do any of that if I mainly wanted to be a "kitchen table" dealer/online? I think I am actually out of city limits. This is probably something I need to find out on my own from someone in my city government.

Random questions:
When do I have to deal with ITAR, and how much does it cost?
If I have my class 02 SOT am I good for being an 01/07 FFL?
I have my 03 FFL, do I need to fill out another certificate of compliance?

Mitch
01-29-2015, 4:10 PM
So, I was pondering this recently. I rent a home, I was just reading the first few posts about zoning laws and all that extremely fun stuff, would I need to do any of that if I mainly wanted to be a "kitchen table" dealer/online? I think I am actually out of city limits. This is probably something I need to find out on my own from someone in my city government.

Holy necro!

Did you read Fort Courage's post? http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2005887#post2005887

SonofWWIIDI
01-29-2015, 4:53 PM
Good luck!!!

I hope it works out for you.

The world needs lots more gun stores!!!!

:thumbsup:

Oldmandan
01-29-2015, 4:58 PM
Re-read my 2nd paragraph above. The only way to get a "kitchen table FFL" out of the ATF is to live far enough away from civilzation (50+ miles from your house to the nearest town of ANY size) that opening a brick and mortar store is impractical. The Clinton Administration went out of it's way to eliminate 90% of those kitchen table FFLs. It won't fly these days.

Not true, I live in Anaheim and have 3 within a 10 mile radius of me. Maybe others I don't know about also... I also have 2 new gun stores that have opened within 5 miles of me.

sl0re10
01-29-2015, 5:54 PM
I am seriously considering opening a gun store. I've always wanted to open a store but was never sure about what kind of store. I think I've decided on a gun store. How are profits from a gun store compared to any other retail business?

Considering sales sometimes go in the 40-50% range (for firearms sometimes) there does seem to be some margin on some product lines.

Then I'd imagine the cleaning supplies and stuff are pretty good...

sl0re10
01-29-2015, 5:57 PM
Then you are more than a little lucky. Dealing with the L. A. ATF, you would have been shot down in a fast minute.

Orange County has some, in populated areas, so it probably varies who your dealing with.

GOLDEN GUN
01-29-2015, 6:10 PM
i am currently in the process of opening one in my county…

facts:
1. i found a landlord willing to rent me out a place for free until i get all my licenses and permits on contingency i sign a lease as soon as i get it. SO I HAVE A STORE FRONT

2. i submitted my application for a type 7 FFL. (it is cheaper, allows of guns smithing, ar15 assembly, and firearms manufacturing.

3. i have also submitted my application for COE

4. i received officially zoning clearance for my store front location for a firearms store. (surprisingly is just retail zoning)

5. i received my local business license for a firearms dealer.( caldoj requires special verbiage of "valid for the retail sales of firearms" right on the license) - my local city hall forgot to put that verbiage on my license although approving the license so now i am waiting on them to correct it.

6. i have a fictitious business name for my gun store.

7. i registered with the state board of equalization for my tax requirements.

now i am patiently waiting. the plan is to be the cheapest for PPT transfers, online transfuse, and consignment sales as well as a average of 30% mark up on all products with the ability to lower that margin at my discretion.

NOTABIKER
01-29-2015, 6:23 PM
it is hard for a gun store to compete with Internet buying. You will have overhead that will keep you from competing with on line sellers like Midway etc.

GOLDEN GUN
01-29-2015, 6:52 PM
it is hard for a gun store to compete with Internet buying. You will have overhead that will keep you from competing with on line sellers like Midway etc.

true for any retail store

Ford8N
01-29-2015, 7:00 PM
So, I was pondering this recently. I rent a home, I was just reading the first few posts about zoning laws and all that extremely fun stuff, would I need to do any of that if I mainly wanted to be a "kitchen table" dealer/online? I think I am actually out of city limits. This is probably something I need to find out on my own from someone in my city government.

Random questions:
When do I have to deal with ITAR, and how much does it cost?
If I have my class 02 SOT am I good for being an 01/07 FFL?
I have my 03 FFL, do I need to fill out another certificate of compliance?

Where in SLO county are you thinking of setting up your "kitchen"?

Deadon
01-29-2015, 9:32 PM
From what i've heard, gun stores profits are very small. You have to put in alot of work to please customers and you're only making $10-100.

It's still a sweet setup, if you have the gut for it, do it!
Yeah I know of a local shop that cleared over 2mil last year. Yeah there was the rush but they still pulled in that much cash.

Mitch
01-30-2015, 6:20 AM
4. i received officially zoning clearance for my store front location for a firearms store. (surprisingly is just retail zoning)
Many cities are like this, no special requirements for gun stores. But other cities require a hearing before the planning commission. I reckon in most cases, if it has to go before a public hearing, forget about it.

Bansh88
01-30-2015, 6:59 AM
Our local go-to FFL in my area works from home. "Gussler's". Shop runs out of his garage. I have used him at least 8 times for PPTs and Internet purchases.
I have never been there and not seen another customer.
Be a good way to start out

klewan
01-30-2015, 7:32 AM
OP, you need to nail down how retailers calculate their profit percentage. Everywhere outside of retail, if you buy something for $10 and sell it for $20, that's a 100% profit. Not in retail; that's 50% in that world.

They obviously don't want the consumer to know how much it's actually marked up, so what they came up with is $10 is 50% of $20. So it's only a 50% markup. 50% doesn't sound as bad as 100%, does it? But this is how you lie to your customers. So your profit margin might be twice as big as you're thinking....

Mitch
01-30-2015, 8:15 AM
OP, you need to nail down how retailers calculate their profit percentage. Everywhere outside of retail, if you buy something for $10 and sell it for $20, that's a 100% profit. Not in retail; that's 50% in that world.

They obviously don't want the consumer to know how much it's actually marked up, so what they came up with is $10 is 50% of $20. So it's only a 50% markup. 50% doesn't sound as bad as 100%, does it? But this is how you lie to your customers. So your profit margin might be twice as big as you're thinking....

Yeah, markup and margin are not at all the same thing. Retail definitely uses a different sort of math from other businesses.

Once when I was investigating a retail business, I bought and read a book that seemed to be pretty good: Retail in Detail (http://www.amazon.com/Retail-Detail-Ronald-L-Bond/dp/1599185113). One thing I learned from that book was I didn't want to be in retail! So I went into manufacturing instead.

GOLDEN GUN
01-30-2015, 10:09 AM
100% markup = 50% profit margin according to retailers lol

Example:
Item cost is $25
Store sells for 100% markup = $50 purchase price
Store tells Whiney customer his profit margin is 50%.

JoshuaS
01-30-2015, 10:22 AM
You know how guns generally sell for a lot less than MSRP right?

So a gun with an MSRP of $700 will usually have a street price $575-625

And the FFL is usually paying the distributor about $500 for said gun. Especially with the 10 day waiting period, where you must store the gun for ten days. And then both CA and Federal paperwork, and the time you spend with the customer, that is not a lot of markup up. And if things get competitive you might go down to only 10% markup.

A rule of thumb is that MSRP is 40% more than cost to retailer, actual price 15-25%, usually at the low end of that. Distributor adds 25-35% from what he paid, and the manufacturer generally charges twice what it cost to make- remember they still have taxes and bonds to pay, so that is not all net profit- so most guns end up selling for 4x what they cost to make, and the retailer gets the smallest cut of the pie from that. Compare that to selling clothes where a retailer can still make money with an 80% of sale.

Even then, that ratio is not uncommon for certain machined goods. But your money will be in ammo, holsters, scopes, magazines, targets. Those you generally get a normal retail mark up for.

CK_32
01-30-2015, 10:26 AM
Can't be bad.. Some places like Rifle Gear can't stop growing lol

Just do it right like anything else and they will come.

golfish
01-30-2015, 10:44 AM
you guys do know this thread is close to 6 years old, right?

GOLDEN GUN
01-30-2015, 10:59 AM
So, I was pondering this recently. I rent a home, I was just reading the first few posts about zoning laws and all that extremely fun stuff, would I need to do any of that if I mainly wanted to be a "kitchen table" dealer/online? I think I am actually out of city limits. This is probably something I need to find out on my own from someone in my city government.

Random questions:
When do I have to deal with ITAR, and how much does it cost?
If I have my class 02 SOT am I good for being an 01/07 FFL?
I have my 03 FFL, do I need to fill out another certificate of compliance?

you guys do know this thread is close to 6 years old, right?

Yea omni bumped it.. Still good info on here

klewan
01-30-2015, 3:04 PM
you guys do know this thread is close to 6 years old, right?

Did something happen in the last 6 years to change the crap retailers do? Don't think so....

It's about .001% of threads are necro, so I don't make a habit of looking at the date. Next version of forum software should highlight a necro thread so it's obvious.

CK_32
01-30-2015, 3:47 PM
If you can't see the warning label that asks to bump a old thread that lists how many exact days old it is and having to check a box to submit the post, I don't think next gen tech will help guys resurrecting threads from the long dead lol

Instead of changing forums, people should learn the forum educate and how to use/utilize the forums they have.

That's the problem with with today's society, why change me? When I can change everything else around me.

geoint
01-31-2015, 7:40 AM
Re-read my 2nd paragraph above. The only way to get a "kitchen table FFL" out of the ATF is to live far enough away from civilzation (50+ miles from your house to the nearest town of ANY size) that opening a brick and mortar store is impractical. The Clinton Administration went out of it's way to eliminate 90% of those kitchen table FFLs. It won't fly these days.

I worked with several home based FFLs in Texas, none of which were around in the Clinton years. However, this was in Texas after all, and maybe the local field office there was more accommodating (though being a federal agency, I doubt it).


PS: brick and mortar shops hate home based FFLs so take what they say with a grain of salt.

Excitable Boy
01-31-2015, 8:17 AM
This thread is full of fail.

Yeah I know of a local shop that cleared over 2mil last year. Yeah there was the rush but they still pulled in that much cash.

Do you mean $2M in gross sales sales? $2M clear would be net profit after cost of goods, employee paychecks, insurance, rent, etc.. $2M clear is highly unlikely.

OP, you need to nail down how retailers calculate their profit percentage. Everywhere outside of retail, if you buy something for $10 and sell it for $20, that's a 100% profit. Not in retail; that's 50% in that world.

They obviously don't want the consumer to know how much it's actually marked up, so what they came up with is $10 is 50% of $20. So it's only a 50% markup. 50% doesn't sound as bad as 100%, does it? But this is how you lie to your customers. So your profit margin might be twice as big as you're thinking....

There is no such thing as 100% profit. That would mean that your merchandise costs nothing, you don't pay yourself or your employees anything and don't have to pay rent, insurance or any other business costs. That is true for retail, manufacturing or running a beauty salon. There is such thing as 100% markup (50% profit margin), but no such thing as 100% profit.

100% markup = 50% profit margin according to retailers lol

Example:
Item cost is $25
Store sells for 100% markup = $50 purchase price
Store tells Whiney customer his profit margin is 50%.

That is fairly accurate. It is a generally accepted business principle that for a retail store to keep it's doors open requires an average profit margin of about 40%. Some products are higher margin and some lower. This is true of all types of retail, not just gun stores. It doesn't mean that the owner is putting 40% or his gross sales in his pocket as he has to pay all business expenses out of that 40%. That includes paychecks for employees, rent, insurance, worker's comp, advertising, etc.. For most stores, the net profit after all costs is 5% to 10%. So, on a store that does $1.5M in annual sales, a really well run business might net the owner $150K per year. A not so well run store might net $75K. That's not exactly getting rich. Profit is not evil, it's what makes our free market economy work. If a guy makes a large capital investment and then works hard all year, he should be entitled to make a profit. After all, it is a business, not a charity. Think about that when you start *****ing about retail store markups. If you'd like to have a place to go check out the next cool thing you want so you can then go try and find it online for less. Oh wait, you can't receive a firearm from an online reseller directly, so we REALLY NEED RETAIL STORES TO STAY IN BUSINESS OR WE CAN"T GET ANYMORE GUNS!

It's so awesome that we have forums where people who have no idea how a business really works can get online and pontificate about how brick and mortar stores are just ripping people off with excessive markups.

Rant mode off.

Stanze
01-31-2015, 8:24 AM
It would be le$$ hassle in CA to open a shop that dealt only in ammo, parts and accessories.

You could stock up and sell more on said items than gun shops who have their money tied up in firearms.

E Michael
01-31-2015, 8:38 AM
Sell basic stuff Like milk and eggs, so when my wife sends me to get milk and eggs i can get some ammo too!

aninchhigh
01-31-2015, 8:48 AM
What I've learned in running a successful business is that what you really have to sell is a solution. We've learned recently that there are lots of options when it comes to acquiring products such as arms and ammunition. The reason people choose their retailers is because they trust them and their problems get solved. Once you've figured that out your margins become more and more adjustable at your discretion. The most important factor when running a business is determine what price point and margin you need to operate to be successful regardless of the competition. If you're not making money everything else is irrelevant.

Good luck to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ford8N
01-31-2015, 8:58 AM
This thread is full of fail.



Do you mean $2M in gross sales sales? $2M clear would be net profit after cost of goods, employee paychecks, insurance, rent, etc.. $2M clear is highly unlikely.



There is no such thing as 100% profit. That would mean that your merchandise costs nothing, you don't pay yourself or your employees anything and don't have to pay rent, insurance or any other business costs. That is true for retail, manufacturing or running a beauty salon. There is such thing as 100% markup (50% profit margin), but no such thing as 100% profit.



That is fairly accurate. It is a generally accepted business principle that for a retail store to keep it's doors open requires an average profit margin of about 40%. Some products are higher margin and some lower. This is true of all types of retail, not just gun stores. It doesn't mean that the owner is putting 40% or his gross sales in his pocket as he has to pay all business expenses out of that 40%. That includes paychecks for employees, rent, insurance, worker's comp, advertising, etc.. For most stores, the net profit after all costs is 5% to 10%. So, on a store that does $1.5M in annual sales, a really well run business might net the owner $150K per year. A not so well run store might net $75K. That's not exactly getting rich. Profit is not evil, it's what makes our free market economy work. If a guy makes a large capital investment and then works hard all year, he should be entitled to make a profit. After all, it is a business, not a charity. Think about that when you start *****ing about retail store markups. If you'd like to have a place to go check out the next cool thing you want so you can then go try and find it online for less. Oh wait, you can't receive a firearm from an online reseller directly, so we REALLY NEED RETAIL STORES TO STAY IN BUSINESS OR WE CAN"T GET ANYMORE GUNS!

It's so awesome that we have forums where people who have no idea how a business really works can get online and pontificate about how brick and mortar stores are just ripping people off with excessive markups.

Rant mode off.

That's not a very good return on the effort/time involved to run a business. My father had his own business and I worked there as a kid and saw how much time he had to put into it to keep the doors open. When I figured out the time involved, he was working for less than minimum wage some months. The only person that really made the easy money was the landlord. She was a widow that personally showed up every first of the month to collect the rent. I learned a good lesson.

Dano3467
01-31-2015, 1:54 PM
One huge plus will be, you can now attend SHOT SHOW:)

omnitravis
02-01-2015, 3:53 PM
Ford8N; in San Luis. I am in the city limits, sadly, thought I lived far enough down foothill, alas, it is about a block away.
I know they are okay with me having my 03, but the other types have got to be a different story.
It probably would be more easy to start with selling ammo and accessories online. I have a good collection right now, for personal use though.
Might have to part with some of it to get things rolling.


There is an FFL in town here who does it out of a bike shop. My buddy went and picked up his shotgun there. I am not even sure if it was his shop, lol. Most likely has to be, id imagine.

klewan
02-01-2015, 4:26 PM
This thread is full of fail.



Do you mean $2M in gross sales sales? $2M clear would be net profit after cost of goods, employee paychecks, insurance, rent, etc.. $2M clear is highly unlikely.



There is no such thing as 100% profit. That would mean that your merchandise costs nothing, you don't pay yourself or your employees anything and don't have to pay rent, insurance or any other business costs. That is true for retail, manufacturing or running a beauty salon. There is such thing as 100% markup (50% profit margin), but no such thing as 100% profit.



That is fairly accurate. It is a generally accepted business principle that for a retail store to keep it's doors open requires an average profit margin of about 40%. Some products are higher margin and some lower. This is true of all types of retail, not just gun stores. It doesn't mean that the owner is putting 40% or his gross sales in his pocket as he has to pay all business expenses out of that 40%. That includes paychecks for employees, rent, insurance, worker's comp, advertising, etc.. For most stores, the net profit after all costs is 5% to 10%. So, on a store that does $1.5M in annual sales, a really well run business might net the owner $150K per year. A not so well run store might net $75K. That's not exactly getting rich. Profit is not evil, it's what makes our free market economy work. If a guy makes a large capital investment and then works hard all year, he should be entitled to make a profit. After all, it is a business, not a charity. Think about that when you start *****ing about retail store markups. If you'd like to have a place to go check out the next cool thing you want so you can then go try and find it online for less. Oh wait, you can't receive a firearm from an online reseller directly, so we REALLY NEED RETAIL STORES TO STAY IN BUSINESS OR WE CAN"T GET ANYMORE GUNS!

It's so awesome that we have forums where people who have no idea how a business really works can get online and pontificate about how brick and mortar stores are just ripping people off with excessive markups.

Rant mode off.

So which margin are you using; buy it for 1, sell it for 2; 100% margin? Or are you the sell for 2, paid 1 so 50%? Makes a difference....

audiophil2
02-01-2015, 5:05 PM
That's not a very good return on the effort/time involved to run a business. My father had his own business and I worked there as a kid and saw how much time he had to put into it to keep the doors open. When I figured out the time involved, he was working for less than minimum wage some months. The only person that really made the easy money was the landlord. She was a widow that personally showed up every first of the month to collect the rent. I learned a good lesson.

I would rather make minimum wage running my own business than 6 figures being a slave to someone else. How much time would you have spent with your dad if he worked at a 9-5 desk job instead of being by his side? How happy do you think he was seeing you work with him?
I don't think you learned anything.

Ford8N
02-01-2015, 8:03 PM
I would rather make minimum wage running my own business than 6 figures being a slave to someone else. How much time would you have spent with your dad if he worked at a 9-5 desk job instead of being by his side? How happy do you think he was seeing you work with him?
I don't think you learned anything.

I would love to be someones slave for 6 figures!:tt1: Because I'm a slave for 5 figures right now.

I learned a theory growing up, that money is everything, it's what makes the world go round. And yes, it makes me happy. I have a standing offer to anyone---- Give me all or even part of your money if you don't like it or it makes you sad. I will gladly take it. Cash is good. I have yet to be taken up on my offer. So that proves my theory. ;)

audiophil2
02-01-2015, 9:30 PM
I would love to be someones slave for 6 figures!:tt1: Because I'm a slave for 5 figures right now.

I learned a theory growing up, that money is everything, it's what makes the world go round. And yes, it makes me happy. I have a standing offer to anyone---- Give me all or even part of your money if you don't like it or it makes you sad. I will gladly take it. Cash is good. I have yet to be taken up on my offer. So that proves my theory. ;)

No one said anything about giving away money or being sad for having money. If you want it then earn it. Just because no one will give you what you want does not prove anything other than you have yet to figure out how to earn what you want. Your logic and your statements show why.

If you need a six figure income to be happy then do whatever it takes to hit that goal but don't be a socialist asking for a handout. Only you are limiting yourself from reaching your goals so either make a change or be happy where you are.

If you think money is all that matters you are missing out on a lot. Some of the happiest people I know live on minimum wage or less. Money is not everything. There will be a day when you will realize that. At least I hope so.

You sound so much like me 20 years ago.

Mitch
02-02-2015, 6:21 AM
I learned a theory growing up, that money is everything, it's what makes the world go round. And yes, it makes me happy. I have a standing offer to anyone---- Give me all or even part of your money if you don't like it or it makes you sad. I will gladly take it. Cash is good. I have yet to be taken up on my offer. So that proves my theory. ;)
Everyone is different.

However, you are actually in the minority because in fact most people are not really motivated by money. Many people are, but not most people. This is important for employers to understand because they can get a lot more out of their workers when they understand how they are motivated by respect, esteem, overcoming a challenge, all kinds of intangible emotional benefits only indirectly related to money (in many cases a cash bonus or a raise is effective not because of the money itself, but because of the recognition it implies).

When I was about forty years old I began planning the business I have been running for the last ten years. For the first seven years of operation, that would be during what would normally be some of the highest earning years of my career, I never collected a paycheck or a dividend. Today I earn from the business less than half what I earned 15 years ago. I sure am not doing this for the money. If it was money I was interested in, I would not have started this business at all and my employees would be working somewhere else, if they were working at all.*

People who do what I do have different motivations from you. I always tried to work hard, but nothing in my previous career compares to the challenges I face daily in running my own business. And unlike in the past, I am also responsible for the livelihoods of other people.

It's not for everyone. I won't even recommend it to most people. But even on the worst days (and the days have been pretty bad lately) I'm glad I did it.




* And you can scarcely imagine how it fills me with rage when some asshat like Obama tells me I "didn't build that." You know, everything he accomplished, running for Senate, running for President, he did with someone else's money, and if he had failed he wouldn't have had to give the money back, unlike a businessman. He would not have to declare bankruptcy and spend years in courtrooms fighting to protect his home or retirement or children's education. None of that was ever at any risk for him. He has no idea, none. Most people have no idea.

I Swan
02-02-2015, 6:58 AM
Can't be bad.. Some places like Rifle Gear can't stop growing lol

Just do it right like anything else and they will come.

I wouldn't really consider them as growing much, a good example of growing would be Ammo Bros. Although some stores are seeming to fail little by little or close up some invested their panic periods/"gouging" profits more wisely.

As for the argument we need to support our ripoff local brick and mortar shops I don't buy it. It is a game of survival of the fittest. Sink or swim. If you can't compete there will always be some sort of FFL to handle gun sales and transfers. Deal with it. I mostly buy used guns so I don't showroom guns and accessories but I do
mainly shop on price.

I won't shop where I'm disrespected but I don't need to have my behind kissed nor do I generally need advice and a lot of help I just need them to write up and process the sale.

Ford8N
02-02-2015, 5:16 PM
Everyone is different.

However, you are actually in the minority because in fact most people are not really motivated by money. Many people are, but not most people. This is important for employers to understand because they can get a lot more out of their workers when they understand how they are motivated by respect, esteem, overcoming a challenge, all kinds of intangible emotional benefits only indirectly related to money (in many cases a cash bonus or a raise is effective not because of the money itself, but because of the recognition it implies).
.

I agree with you. I am different in that I'm quite happy with myself. I don't need to have pats on the back telling me to "keep up the good work", "your so awesome", "excellent job, your the best at what you do!". To me that's cheap talk. If my masters were really appreciative they would put some skin in the game, like cold hard cash, a lot of it. Sadly, I've been to all those classes and seminars telling me how to motivate employees without costing me a dime extra from the budget. That only works for the weak minded and the easily fooled. And there are a lot of those folks in the workforce. Awards, appreciation certificates, lunch with the boss and silly "fun days" with out money on the table is embarrassing.

GOLDEN GUN
02-02-2015, 5:32 PM
don't be so discouraged about opening a business… its a lot better than most people are making it sound.. with a few minor misconceptions..

some people think if you own a business you get to choose ur own hours and you are no longer someone slave.

this is completey false unless you are a brilliant business person. most business owners i know, including my father for over 40 years have been a slave to his own business… especially the buiness he has employees. the business dictates when you can go on vacations and for how long. if you were about employee theft, of a tight ship running, its really difficult to let loose. when employees get sick the owner is the one that covers if they had to.. no one works harder than the owner.. assuming they are a good owner….

the next popular misconception is that there isn't really too much money in it or its not worth it. this is true form some, maybe many, but not most. if that were the case, no one would aspire to do it, or continue doing it. i know of a local gun store that had 400k in gross sales in one month. if u assume they are operating on a 30% net profit margin…(meaning at the end of the day, they take home 30% of their total gross sales to their pocket) that owner made 120k net profit that month! sound unreal? think about it…. if every gun they sold that month averaged $1000. they would need to sell 400 guns per month to make those sales. thats 13.3 guns thy sell a day average. not including ammo and accessories plus PPT and consignment profits.
so while people are talking making 120k a year, this gun store owner is making 120k PER MONTH. thats over 1.3 million a year NET!!!!

say what you want, but for the right business model, the right business owner, ideal location, and a little bit of magic.. it can be extremely worth while to open a business… my families last business netted about 40k per month… even at that range its worth it

I Swan
02-02-2015, 5:48 PM
One bad thing about gun business is it is thick and thin, feast or famine. You can only fleece so many panic buyers. You need to establish good business relations with your non panic buying customers. Some times of year are real slow traditionally too in that industry.

I think some of the smaller AR oriented stores did not wisely invest or spend their windfalls hence their demise or stagnation. Panics can't last forever. I think Turners and other big boys will continue to put the squeeze on them too. Guns are also durable good and most people don't feel the need for more than 5-10 at very most.

Even if they do finances and angry wifes can and do put a stop to that.

Mitch
02-02-2015, 7:17 PM
I agree with you. I am different in that I'm quite happy with myself. I don't need to have pats on the back telling me to "keep up the good work", "your so awesome", "excellent job, your the best at what you do!". To me that's cheap talk. If my masters were really appreciative they would put some skin in the game, like cold hard cash, a lot of it. Sadly, I've been to all those classes and seminars telling me how to motivate employees without costing me a dime extra from the budget. That only works for the weak minded and the easily fooled. And there are a lot of those folks in the workforce. Awards, appreciation certificates, lunch with the boss and silly "fun days" with out money on the table is embarrassing.

I would never suggest you are weak minded or easily fooled, but it appears to me you learned the wrong lessons from those seminars, or my post.

But since you are 100% motivated by money, I guess that makes it easier for the people around you. After all, money is relatively easy to get and to give. The rest, not so much.

ilvwhtgrls
02-02-2015, 9:10 PM
don't be so discouraged about opening a business… its a lot better than most people are making it sound.. with a few minor misconceptions..

some people think if you own a business you get to choose ur own hours and you are no longer someone slave.

this is completey false unless you are a brilliant business person. most business owners i know, including my father for over 40 years have been a slave to his own business… especially the buiness he has employees. the business dictates when you can go on vacations and for how long. if you were about employee theft, of a tight ship running, its really difficult to let loose. when employees get sick the owner is the one that covers if they had to.. no one works harder than the owner.. assuming they are a good owner….

the next popular misconception is that there isn't really too much money in it or its not worth it. this is true form some, maybe many, but not most. if that were the case, no one would aspire to do it, or continue doing it. i know of a local gun store that had 400k in gross sales in one month. if u assume they are operating on a 30% net profit margin…(meaning at the end of the day, they take home 30% of their total gross sales to their pocket) that owner made 120k net profit that month! sound unreal? think about it…. if every gun they sold that month averaged $1000. they would need to sell 400 guns per month to make those sales. thats 13.3 guns thy sell a day average. not including ammo and accessories plus PPT and consignment profits.
so while people are talking making 120k a year, this gun store owner is making 120k PER MONTH. thats over 1.3 million a year NET!!!!

say what you want, but for the right business model, the right business owner, ideal location, and a little bit of magic.. it can be extremely worth while to open a business… my families last business netted about 40k per month… even at that range its worth it

No retail store has 30% net profit. You are confusing gross margin and net profit.

Excitable Boy is spot on with his break down on running a retail store.

I Swan
02-02-2015, 9:48 PM
I would never suggest you are weak minded or easily fooled, but it appears to me you learned the wrong lessons from those seminars, or my post.

But since you are 100% motivated by money, I guess that makes it easier for the people around you. After all, money is relatively easy to get and to give. The rest, not so much.

You can't eat praise or pay your rent or mortgage with it. I could care less about that stuff unfortunately money is what matters.

Jimi Jah
02-03-2015, 7:50 AM
Open a bar, it's easier to get the permits and you will have a better profit margin.

Jimi Jah
02-03-2015, 7:51 AM
Open a bar, it's easier to get the permits and you will have a better profit margin. Plus you will have drinking friends every night.

I Swan
02-03-2015, 8:44 AM
Bars are known for high failure rates and a tough business to make money in.

GOLDEN GUN
02-03-2015, 4:51 PM
Open a bar, it's easier to get the permits and you will have a better profit margin. Plus you will have drinking friends every night.

all the liquor licenses any city or county that would be worth opening in is at its limit with how many licenses they will issue. if i wanted to buy one in my county it would cost over 100k for the license alone

RSC
02-03-2015, 5:50 PM
I would never suggest you are weak minded or easily fooled, but it appears to me you learned the wrong lessons from those seminars, or my post.

But since you are 100% motivated by money, I guess that makes it easier for the people around you. After all, money is relatively easy to get and to give. The rest, not so much.

Both of you are right, but none of you mentioned the proper sequence. Once the monetary aspect is taken care of properly the "other" aspects start to matter. No one can stay at an awesome, rewarding, etc. job if you can't pay for the cat food, housing, utilities. Priorities sometimes matter. :oji:

Excitable Boy
02-03-2015, 9:09 PM
Both of you are right, but none of you mentioned the proper sequence. Once the monetary aspect is taken care of properly the "other" aspects start to matter. No one can stay at an awesome, rewarding, etc. job if you can't pay for the cat food, housing, utilities. Priorities sometimes matter. :oji:

True. That is known as Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Good basic Psychology:

http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

greensoup
02-03-2015, 10:22 PM
That's not a very good return on the effort/time involved to run a business. My father had his own business and I worked there as a kid and saw how much time he had to put into it to keep the doors open. When I figured out the time involved, he was working for less than minimum wage some months. The only person that really made the easy money was the landlord. She was a widow that personally showed up every first of the month to collect the rent. I learned a good lesson.

Landlording isn't easy money either. If your father had gone under and not paid his rent. The landlord is out money they can't collect and have to spend money to find a new tenant. Happens a lot.

Everyone trades time and effort for money. The hardest part is finding some way to get paid for something you're willing to spend that much time on.