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View Full Version : First time UOC in Elk Grove went well!


nukechaser
02-07-2009, 5:25 AM
(originally posted at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/21587.html )

Hello all!

Well, I did it! I've been lurking and pondering for a while now and today I UOC'd (is that a verb now?) on a trip to Home Depot in Elk Grove.

It was a very nice experience.

- I printed up a couple of the OC flyers.

- I made sure I had my digital voice recorder running.

- I was dressed in relatively nice clothes.

- I had my Kydex holster on my right-side belt and my Kydex single magazine holster on my left.

- I had my Beretta 92FS and one full magazine (not in the magazine well) locked in its case with a big ol' key padlock and placed it in my trunk and I was off to get a new hot water heater draincock (mine was leaking).

I parked out in the south 40 (as I usually do to avoid door dings) and got out, opened my trunk, unlocked the case and holstered the pistol on my right and my magazine on my left.

I strolled across the parking lot, trying to appear as if I did this every day. Truth be told, my heart rate was up because I just knew a mob would stone me before I reached the door or SWAT would draw down on me by the time I reached the BBQs.

Nope, most folks didn't give me a second look.

The "would you like to sign up for a Home Depot credit card" guy inside the door just smiled when I said, "no thanks".

I wandered around a little bit looking for the plumbing/water heater section, found the draincocks, contemplated plastic versus brass, decided upon brass, moseyed up to the self-check-out, paid, bagged, and got a "have a nice day, sir" (yes, he said "sir") from the young man at the self-check-out help counter.

As I made my way out to my car I resisted the urge to constantly swivel my head looking for the LEO that I just KNEW had to be waiting for me.

Nope, I walked back out to the south 40, locked my magazine and pistol in their case, put the case in the trunk, tossed my Home Depot bag in the front seat and headed home.

I continued to look for LEOs that were just sure to be rolling up, Code 2, to investigate me. Nada...

It was, in the most pleasant way possible, a non-event; as it should be.

What did I learn?

- Carrying oneself as someone who is confident in their ability to defend themselves goes a long way to putting folks at ease. If you look as though you might be uneasy about what you are doing folks will probably pick up on that and maybe follow through on calling a LEO to check you out. I simply got the feeling that folks were indifferent or were convinced I was someone who "of course should be carrying". All of us law abiding citizens "should be carrying", however, I mean it in the sense of how a lot of our non-gun citizens might perceive those of us who UOC.

- Dressing a little bit on the nice side can help people see us as more "upstanding". Yes, we're free to wear what we wish, but just as you wouldn't wear raggedy jeans, an old t-shirt, and a Hoof-Arted baseball hat to a job interview, taking time to dress a little nicer can only help with your perception with the general public and law enforcement. I was not gussied up to the nines, I had slacks and a nice button-down shirt. I could have been mistaken for an office worker on his lunch break. (Actually, I am a state worker on furlough)

- Even with all the thought, concern and research I put into this, no one seemed to care, which is a good thing.

- I would also recommend sunglasses. They come in handy to be able to scan people's reaction without necessarily making eye contact, which can put off some people. I would, however, slide them atop your head, should you have an ecounter with a LEO. Making eye contact with an officer is always a plus, in my opinion.

- I also did a quick check on my GPS to show me direction and distance to any schools. It would be unfortunate to be in an unfamiliar location, proceed to UOC, and turn a corner on a block to find youself within 1000 feet of a school. Most late model GPS receivers can show you this info.

- The only other thing I might add to prep for UOC would be to buy an additional voice recorder and use it in conjunction with a scanning radio running at home. Most major cities have a trunked radio system and have "talk groups" that are defined by geographic region. If you know how to set up your scanner to track the channel used in your region, set it up to VOX activate your digital voice recorder. Should you need to know how the call was dispatched, number of callers, and how LEO responded, as well as other info said over the air, you'll have it at home as a record.

***NOTE*** I am not a lawyer and am NOT giving legal advice! The following information I am sharing is merely information that I know about public safety radio systems.***NOTE*** That being said...

Almost all radio traffic and 911 calls are recorded and can be requested as a Freedom of Information Act item, or subpoenaed if needed in court, as I understand it. Your at-home recording might give insight as to whether or not the radio traffic might be helpful, should you run into a less-than-understanding LEO.

I am really pleased that my first experience was a good one. I will be UOCing again soon and will report back if anything of note happens.

I'd like to give a big "thanks" to the OC community. Keep up the good work!

ENTHUSIAST
02-07-2009, 6:07 AM
Congrats glad all went smoothly... carry on.

TheBundo
02-07-2009, 6:09 AM
Sounds like a good time.

sfpcservice
02-07-2009, 12:37 PM
That's awesome! It sucks that you have to arm/disarm yourself though! I am in the same situation as I live in a school zone. I can't wait until loaded open carry is legal. Like many others, I predict the immediate response will be contact by an LEO to inform you CCW permits are free at city hall.

Kid Stanislaus
02-07-2009, 4:36 PM
I can't wait until loaded open carry is legal.


And that will be WHEN? Try to remember, we're living in the PRC and even if we get a court ruling in our favor the state legislature will move quickly to quash it.

truthseeker
02-07-2009, 5:46 PM
I live out towards I-5 across from Apple. I have been to that Home Depot plenty of times.

Congrats!

sfpcservice
02-07-2009, 7:22 PM
And that will be WHEN? Try to remember, we're living in the PRC and even if we get a court ruling in our favor the state legislature will move quickly to quash it.

That's it, I'm leaving the state. There is nothing here for me anymore.

vrand
02-07-2009, 7:44 PM
Congrats

NiteQwill
02-07-2009, 8:08 PM
And that will be WHEN? Try to remember, we're living in the PRC and even if we get a court ruling in our favor the state legislature will move quickly to quash it.

Quick to throw in the towel already? I think CalGuns and its members have proven many times already that with the right people and resources, anything is possible to secure an important civil right.

sfpcservice
02-07-2009, 8:13 PM
Quick to throw in the towel already? I think CalGuns and its members have proven many times already that with the right people and resources, anything is possible to secure an important civil right.

Thanks NiteQwill, that other guy had me discouraged! I'll cancel the moving company.:thumbsup:

Turbinator
02-07-2009, 10:06 PM
Wow, Elk Grove.. I'm impressed. A suitably populated area, and in NorCal. Nice job!

Turby

YoungGun2
02-07-2009, 10:21 PM
Sounds like a good time.....One thing though whatís UOC? And LEO mean? And can I do it?

Spelunker
02-07-2009, 10:28 PM
Sounds like a good time.....One thing though whatís UOC? And LEO mean? And can I do it?

Newbies;), we know we were all there at one time of our lives. Welcome aboard.

UOC= unloaded open carry
LEO= law enforcement officer

Turbinator
02-07-2009, 10:30 PM
Sounds like a good time.....One thing though whatís UOC? And LEO mean? And can I do it?

Hmm. Suggest you do a bit more reading, and understand the risks. UOC is not for everyone and you should be ready to deal with unwanted legal attention - have some cash set aside to cover legal fees etc should something "bad" happen.

Turby

becxltoo984
02-07-2009, 10:36 PM
I would like to see you pull that stunt while shopping at walmart off elk grove Bvld !

JDoe
02-07-2009, 10:54 PM
Sounds like a good time.....One thing though whatís UOC? And LEO mean? And can I do it?

What the others said and probably not a bad idea to have around (help me guys) $10,000 ready for legal fees if you get arrested while UOCing.

Check out www.opencarry.org and pay attention to the California section (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/). This is something you study, prepare and plan for, you don't just go out and do it not knowing what you are doing.

N6ATF
02-08-2009, 12:32 AM
So when you went back to your vehicle was it suddenly surrounded at least 3 deep on either side? ;)

YoungGun2
02-08-2009, 1:18 AM
Well first off thank you to Spelunker thatís what needed to know Googleing UOC didnít do the trick.


Well thanks for the good advice guys I think Iíll just drop my gun off at the Police station with a 10,000 check and tell them thanks for all the good work. I might even add how happy I am with the way they have scared the gun community so much that now people on forums are deterring others not to use their own FREE RIGHT...


As for the rest of you guy cowering down to the ďanti whateverísĒ. I hate the fact that you make it seem like standing out off the crowed is bad thing, and then imply I canít use the right given to me because Iíll be harassed or have to pay lawyers to prove that Iím well with in the laws. Well as long as Iím well with in the Laws I WILL NOT BE SCARD OR THRETEND to take the extra step to make UOC or any Gun provision a more common thing and not something thatís considered unsafe or out of the ordinary. Instead of saying what could happen, why you donít you do something about it like actually exercise YOUR right and do it. You guys remind me of the people that see a crime happen but are too scared to say anything to the authorities because of what kind of retaliation might happen. Rather then telling the authorities what happened they do nothing and nothing gets fixed and in fact things get worse! Kind of like that way it is now with all the bull laws we have!

I would like to see you pull that stunt while shopping at Wal-Mart off elk grove Bvld !

What the others said and probably not a bad idea to have around (help me guys) $10,000 ready for legal fees if you get arrested while UOCing.
Yes I understand this is real life and things donít always go smooth. But just because you get slapped on the wrist doesnít mean you canít do it, it just means others are not educated. I donít mean to sound all heroic but rather then being a smart *** maybe you could contribute some advise instead of give the ďanti what everísĒ more fuel for there fire.

cgseanp1
02-08-2009, 6:42 AM
Well first off thank you to Spelunker thatís what needed to know Googleing UOC didnít do the trick.


Well thanks for the good advice guys I think Iíll just drop my gun off at the Police station with a 10,000 check and tell them thanks for all the good work. I might even add how happy I am with the way they have scared the gun community so much that now people on forums are deterring others not to use their own FREE RIGHT...


As for the rest of you guy cowering down to the ďanti whateverísĒ. I hate the fact that you make it seem like standing out off the crowed is bad thing, and then imply I canít use the right given to me because Iíll be harassed or have to pay lawyers to prove that Iím well with in the laws. Well as long as Iím well with in the Laws I WILL NOT BE SCARD OR THRETEND to take the extra step to make UOC or any Gun provision a more common thing and not something thatís considered unsafe or out of the ordinary. Instead of saying what could happen, why you donít you do something about it like actually exercise YOUR right and do it. You guys remind me of the people that see a crime happen but are too scared to say anything to the authorities because of what kind of retaliation might happen. Rather then telling the authorities what happened they do nothing and nothing gets fixed and in fact things get worse! Kind of like that way it is now with all the bull laws we have!




Yes I understand this is real life and things donít always go smooth. But just because you get slapped on the wrist doesnít mean you canít do it, it just means others are not educated. I donít mean to sound all heroic but rather then being a smart *** maybe you could contribute some advise instead of give the ďanti what everísĒ more fuel for there fire.


:confused:

Yes, others may not be educated. That does not change the fact that you could get slapped with large legal fees, even if you are doing nothing wrong. People who are saying it is a good idea to have some extra money laying aside are contributing advice.. like you said, this is real life, things do not always go smooth, and it is a very good idea to be prepared. Whatever though, you just don't get it.

sfpcservice
02-08-2009, 8:19 AM
Here's a good place to start:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=142379

This is why members are telling you to be prepared with money to legally defend yourself. You can get jammed up in the legal system, even if you've done nothing wrong. You can exercise your right all you want, I don't think anyone here would say otherwise, but Theseus is getting put through the wringer for UOC.

I know if it were me and I had to come up with $10,000 to fight a trumped up charge, it would be cheaper and maybe better for my family to just go to jail. I have alot more time than money these days.

hoffmang
02-08-2009, 11:58 AM
Just to re-iterate. If you're going to do this you need $5K set aside for legal fees and a willingness to sit in jail until a judge is willing to release you or another $5K to waste on your part of bail.

Also, be very aware of the restriction of carrying within 1000' feet of any school zone.

-Gene

Glock22Fan
02-08-2009, 1:58 PM
Well first off thank you to Spelunker thatís what needed to know Googleing UOC didnít do the trick.


Well thanks for the good advice guys I think Iíll just drop my gun off at the Police station with a 10,000 check and tell them thanks for all the good work. I might even add how happy I am with the way they have scared the gun community so much that now people on forums are deterring others not to use their own FREE RIGHT...


As for the rest of you guy cowering down to the ďanti whateverísĒ. I hate the fact that you make it seem like standing out off the crowed is bad thing, and then imply I canít use the right given to me because Iíll be harassed or have to pay lawyers to prove that Iím well with in the laws. Well as long as Iím well with in the Laws I WILL NOT BE SCARD OR THRETEND to take the extra step to make UOC or any Gun provision a more common thing and not something thatís considered unsafe or out of the ordinary. Instead of saying what could happen, why you donít you do something about it like actually exercise YOUR right and do it. You guys remind me of the people that see a crime happen but are too scared to say anything to the authorities because of what kind of retaliation might happen. Rather then telling the authorities what happened they do nothing and nothing gets fixed and in fact things get worse! Kind of like that way it is now with all the bull laws we have!




Yes I understand this is real life and things donít always go smooth. But just because you get slapped on the wrist doesnít mean you canít do it, it just means others are not educated. I donít mean to sound all heroic but rather then being a smart *** maybe you could contribute some advise instead of give the ďanti what everísĒ more fuel for there fire.

I have to say, you sound very young and very inexperienced.

jazman
02-08-2009, 3:48 PM
Well first off thank you to Spelunker thatís what needed to know Googleing UOC didnít do the trick.


Well thanks for the good advice guys I think Iíll just drop my gun off at the Police station with a 10,000 check and tell them thanks for all the good work. I might even add how happy I am with the way they have scared the gun community so much that now people on forums are deterring others not to use their own FREE RIGHT...


As for the rest of you guy cowering down to the ďanti whateverísĒ. I hate the fact that you make it seem like standing out off the crowed is bad thing, and then imply I canít use the right given to me because Iíll be harassed or have to pay lawyers to prove that Iím well with in the laws. Well as long as Iím well with in the Laws I WILL NOT BE SCARD OR THRETEND to take the extra step to make UOC or any Gun provision a more common thing and not something thatís considered unsafe or out of the ordinary. Instead of saying what could happen, why you donít you do something about it like actually exercise YOUR right and do it. You guys remind me of the people that see a crime happen but are too scared to say anything to the authorities because of what kind of retaliation might happen. Rather then telling the authorities what happened they do nothing and nothing gets fixed and in fact things get worse! Kind of like that way it is now with all the bull laws we have!




Yes I understand this is real life and things donít always go smooth. But just because you get slapped on the wrist doesnít mean you canít do it, it just means others are not educated. I donít mean to sound all heroic but rather then being a smart *** maybe you could contribute some advise instead of give the ďanti what everísĒ more fuel for there fire.


For not even knowing what it was that you wanted to do and asking advice about it, you sure seem to think you know it all. You've been on this forum for less than a month, maybe you should read some of the threads on UOC before you shoot your mouth off. Smarter people than you have been busted for UOC and it is costing them big bucks even though the law is on their side. I suggest you know ALL the laws before UOC or you will not just be "SCARD OR THRETEND", you will also be paying the price of your lack of knowledge.

916Plinker
02-08-2009, 4:14 PM
I had a buddy that tried this back in 98 and he was convinced he was doing nothing wrong. Maybe so but as sfpcservice said, why spend legal time and money to prove your point. My friend got more looks and caused quite a panic everytime we went somewhere it was just ridiculous. He even had a cop ask him if he was off duty one time. For me, I would not bother with it if you cant get a CCW and even then it gets old carrying everyday. If it is not absolutely necessary for your protection why do it?

NiteQwill
02-08-2009, 5:33 PM
I had a buddy that tried this back in 98 and he was convinced he was doing nothing wrong. Maybe so but as sfpcservice said, why spend legal time and money to prove your point. My friend got more looks and caused quite a panic everytime we went somewhere it was just ridiculous. He even had a cop ask him if he was off duty one time. For me, I would not bother with it if you cant get a CCW and even then it gets old carrying everyday. If it is not absolutely necessary for your protection why do it?

Isn't that the point?:confused:

CitaDeL
02-08-2009, 6:11 PM
I had a buddy that tried this back in 98 and he was convinced he was doing nothing wrong. Maybe so but as sfpcservice said, why spend legal time and money to prove your point. My friend got more looks and caused quite a panic everytime we went somewhere it was just ridiculous. He even had a cop ask him if he was off duty one time. For me, I would not bother with it if you cant get a CCW and even then it gets old carrying everyday. If it is not absolutely necessary for your protection why do it?

My hat is off to your buddy. He was and still is correct. Provided he was carrying an unloaded firearm, without knowingly being within 1000 feet of a school, he was completely compliant with the law.

However I do not believe that your friend caused any panic anywhere at any time. Im sure those who were observant enough to notice looked and pointed, but ended up doing nothing about it. This is normal.

While you would not bother with it, others value their security and safety sufficiently to make a stand on behalf of themselves and their families. If carrying a firearm for either activism or protection is such a unnecessary burden- I wonder just what purpose a person making such statements has on a firearms advocacy forum. It certainly isnt the advancement of our RTKABA.

I see this is your very first post 916Plinker... welcome to Cal Guns. Are you a long time lurker or are you new to the site?

nukechaser
02-08-2009, 11:06 PM
Congratulations, good job.
Could you post a "how to" on the scanner directions for us non radio people,
like very elementary directions. It would be useful to know which model to buy etc.

For the most part, any of the "trunk tracker" scanners out there will work well with a municipality's radio system. Here in Sacramento the city and county share a system. It has police, sheriff, fire, ems, dog catcher, etc. on it. For the uninitiated, a trunked radio system allows many users to share a limited number of channels while not "hearing" each other. It also allows a great deal of flexibility for managing the users with priorities and whatnot, as well as being able to turn a radio into a $1,000 brick over the air if it should become lost or fall into the wrong hands.

The primary difference between a conventional and trunked radio system is that a trunked system can rotate through several frequencies during the course of a conversation. In an older/traditional scanner it would be very difficult to follow along with an exchange between two stations because the channels can be reassigned/switched after each transmission. This is where a trunk tracker comes into play.

Once you have a trunk tracking scanner running on your local trunked radio system, you'll need to learn, either by listening for a while, or gleaning the info from the web or even asking the PD if they provide channel assignment (talk group) info to the public.

Set it up to "trunk track" the talk group you know to be the LEO channel for the region in which you plan to UOC. You can then record it with your digital voice recorder set to VOX (if your house is quiet) or you may need to get a double-ended male-to-male speaker-to-mic-jack cable to go from your scanner to you voice recorder (assuming the scanner has an external speaker jack and your voice recorder has an external mic jack).

Trunked radio systems can be quite involved and explaining the differences (Motorola Type 1, 2 or 2i, or GE EDACS, or EF Johnson, or analog vs. P-25) would be way beyond the scope of this post. It is probably safe to say any of the modern "trunk tracker" flavor scanners from Radio Shack, or Uniden would probably suffice. Ask the local guy at your favorite scanner dealer to show you what works in your town.

If you have further questions, please feel free to PM me.

nukechaser
02-08-2009, 11:19 PM
I would like to see you pull that stunt while shopping at walmart off elk grove Bvld !

Why would you call it a stunt and what is special about Walmart on Elk Grove and Hi-way 99?

Do you know something the rest of us don't? If so, care to share?

Barring any schools nearby (I'd have to check), I can't think of a reason to not exercise my right at Walmart, or any place else that I am allowed to legally UOC.

I am scratching my head and trying to figure out if you're being sardonic or if you know something the rest of us don't.

Which is it? :)

becxltoo984
02-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Let us know the next time you decide to exercise your right UOC . As for walmart I cant imagine a better public place to prove your point .

N6ATF
02-09-2009, 12:41 AM
One more thing to note is that you may want to scan more than one talkgroup (trunked) or frequency (conventional). With San Diego PD, the initial dispatch would go out on D1 (dispatch 1, primary), further non-emergency comms between officers and/or dispatch might move to D2 (dispatch 2, secondary) to clear the primary air all officers are supposed to be monitoring, and if it becomes a drawn-out incident, it may be moved to a separate Tac(tical) channel. A dispatcher may or may not be monitoring this to assist the officers, depends on what the center staffing level is, AFAICT. Also your information may be run over a separate Inquiry channel. If any higher-level brass is involved, they may use a phone patch channel to talk to the officers in the field who have radios.

So it would be good to look into the primary, secondary, tac (just lock out the ones already in use before you leave), inquiry, and phone patch talkgroups or frequencies so you can scan all of them. Unfortunately sometimes inquiry can be more busy than the primary so you'd risk having someone's records check on the recording instead of your initial dispatch, cover units responding, and sergeant talking.

wilson_wwsc
02-09-2009, 1:05 AM
good stuff

YoungGun2
02-09-2009, 9:57 AM
I have to say, you sound very young and very inexperienced.

Yes your right I am young and me be inexperienced to your standards, but sometimes a fresh pair of eyes and mind can see through the cloud of hypocrisy allot clearer then most.

For not even knowing what it was that you wanted to do and asking advice about it, you sure seem to think you know it all. You've been on this forum for less than a month, maybe you should read some of the threads on UOC before you shoot your mouth off. Smarter people than you have been busted for UOC and it is costing them big bucks even though the law is on their side. I suggest you know ALL the laws before UOC or you will not just be "SCARD OR THRETEND", you will also be paying the price of your lack of knowledge.


Iíve only been a member since 01-20-2009 and it didnít take very long to spot the people that are willing to push through the fight no matter what, and to spot the group that lay low and figure as long as we donít disturb the water well be ok. Will guess what buddy most if not all of the modern day gun laws WE have in this new era are all because of people who were willing to test the waters, even if they knew it meant being prosecuted by his own piers. People Like nukechaser & Theseus are on the front line while you sit and type about how bad it could turn out. Iím a firm believer in putting in the work to get the job done but when people complain about the issues rather than doing something about it, how different are you then the ďanti whateverísĒ that say how guns kill people yet the evidence clearly shows the negligence on the persons behalf. And by the way it doesnít take very long to read and comprehend the UOC laws have you read them is the better question? If you only took a second to acutely go to http://www.opencarry.org/ you would see the quote that pretty much some's it all up.
"A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

JarenC81
02-09-2009, 10:49 AM
I don't know about you but $10k is more than a slap on the wrist for me. If that is chump change for you then good for you. But don't get all flustered when people point out that UOC may be a very expensive statement, not everyone has your means and you really should thank the friendly warning.

Bruce3
02-09-2009, 11:53 AM
i've read two stories about UOC and both of them ran into resistance at shopping malls. on of them was a Calgunner. just a heads up.

E Pluribus Unum
02-09-2009, 1:43 PM
I think the reason the UOC goes so well most of the time is because the general public either does not notice the firearm, or they think you are a police officer.

I pulled over to help a man and I had a 10 minute conversation with him giving him directions and showing him on the map where he was. I ultimately let him follow me to the nearest town where he could stay for the night. He bought me dinner and we socialized for about an hour, the whole time I was open carrying.

This guy was a civil engineer from Los Angeles area so he was affluent. I was in my blue jeans and a plaid shirt. When we exited the convenience store, a passerby asked me "Is that a Glock 21?" I replied and told him it was a 17. The engineer looked at my belt and said "OH MY GOSH, you have a gun, is that legal?" This was in Lake Isabella where gun ownership is celebrated so we both looked at him with a "Duhhh" look on our faces. The guy spent nearly 1.5 hours with me and never noticed it on my side.

The only reason he knew I was not a cop was because I was in my redneck garb with a cowboy hat and a 5-day beard.

Several times when I have been open carrying in my "computer tech" garb, clean shaven, people have started up conversations with me saying "So, you're a cop?" or "How long have you been a police officer?" or "Thank you for your service." It invariably turns into a discussion about lawful open carry of a firearm. I educate people at every opportunity. If they see enough good, articulate citizens carrying firearms, it will serve to oppose the vilification of the firearm that the media perpetuates.

Too often, any time a "gun rights issue" arrises in the media, its Joe-Bob and Bubba with a southern draw and 3 teeth talking about his 7th grade education and his right to carry his daddy's scattergun. It is time to change the stereotype of the "gun owner" and I aim to do that.

Cypren
02-09-2009, 2:15 PM
It is time to change the stereotype of the "gun owner" and I aim to do that.

Thank you for your service. :)

Glock22Fan
02-09-2009, 2:22 PM
Yes your right I am young and me be inexperienced to your standards, but sometimes a fresh pair of eyes and mind can see through the cloud of hypocrisy allot clearer then most.

I think that it was Mark Twain who said something like: "When I was nineteen, I was amazed at how little my father knew. When I became twenty one, I was amazed at how much he had learned in just two short years."

The young always think that the old have no idea about anything and that only the young can see things clearly. I guess they could be right, sometimes, but not nearly as often as they think they are. There's no-one as stupid as someone who doesn't realize that there's a lot they don't know.

Please note, I'm talking generalizations. Perhaps Young Gun is an exception.

Theseus
02-09-2009, 3:10 PM
Good on ya!

YoungGun2
02-09-2009, 5:39 PM
Ok so what then, not UOC should a law be passed saying UOCing should be outlawed? I mean if a forum that is committed to a pro gun community can’t seem to agree that our right should be exercised, instead we are told that it’s better to lay low and stay off the radar. Then how’s UOC really any significance to us at all? Yes I understand the repercussions that may arise but should that really be used as a deterrent? If that’s the case then what rights do we really have at all, and how long before we start getting $10,000 fines for using our words to express how things should be done.

For some one that’s so Pro CCW you sure do put up a hell of a fight for the same thing in a different context.

Mark Twain also said “Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.”

Do you mind?

sfpcservice
02-09-2009, 6:09 PM
YounGun2, The people here were just trying to give some advice to someone who sounded as though he could use it. I know in my line of work, I'd be foolish not to listen to the advice of those senior to me. If you can't accept this as friendly advice, then I'm not sure what else there is for you here. Do whatever you want, it's your life.

Kid Stanislaus
02-09-2009, 6:26 PM
That's it, I'm leaving the state. There is nothing here for me anymore.


I'd leave if I could. My sister and bro-in-law live in S. Oregon and its a different world. Open carry, "shall issue" CCW, no lead bans, it makes me want to just flat out set down and bawl my head off once in awhile.

Kid Stanislaus
02-09-2009, 6:30 PM
Quick to throw in the towel already? I think CalGuns and its members have proven many times already that with the right people and resources, anything is possible to secure an important civil right.


You're pursuing a pipe dream. Its going to just keep getting worse and worse in this state. The liberals are in charge and nothing is going to change that short of a MAJOR blunder on their part. You've got to understand, California is not like "normal" states. There's a social sickness here that's spreading. Its called "liberalitis" and before its over it'll kill all of our liberty. Optimism is just a form of foolishness here.

Kid Stanislaus
02-09-2009, 6:34 PM
"Yes I understand this is real life and things donít always go smooth. But just because you get slapped on the wrist doesnít mean you canít do it, it just means others are not educated. I donít mean to sound all heroic but rather then being a smart *** "

If the DA finds some angle to hang you out to dry you'll be cry'n for a slap on the wrist.

YoungGun2
02-09-2009, 6:44 PM
YounGun2, The people here were just trying to give some advice to someone who sounded as though he could use it. I know in my line of work, I'd be foolish not to listen to the advice of those senior to me. If you can't accept this as friendly advice, then I'm not sure what else there is for you here. Do whatever you want, it's your life.

The advice had been taken and I my not even chose to UOC. However I disagree with the logic that some people will just concede with way thing are handled when things go south. To each it OwenÖ.

JDoe
02-09-2009, 7:33 PM
YoungGun2, I don't think anyone has told you not to UOC but we have tried to get you on the path to understanding what your risks will be.

Go ahead and UOC. I don't care. If you UOC and get arrested on a bogus/bad/trumped up charge and the charges get dropped I'm sure you'll find a way to explain a weapons related arrest record to interested parties in the future--if they bother to ask. It's your future and life isn't fair.

It looks like we are about to get the 2nd incorporated and that should open the door for many good things firearms related including legal loaded open carry that could very well result in a shall issue CCW policy for all of California, etc.

UOC, subject to certain restrictions, might be legal in California but it isn't your right yet.

Yes I understand this is real life and things donít always go smooth. But just because you get slapped on the wrist doesnít mean you canít do it, it just means others are not educated. I donít mean to sound all heroic but rather then being a smart *** maybe you could contribute some advise instead of give the ďanti what everísĒ more fuel for there fire.

Except a slap on the wrist for doing what you are legally able to do is going to cost you thousands of dollars, possibly days or longer in jail and months of your time dealing with your attorney and the courts. You want to be a hero then take that $10,000 and donate it to Calguns because they can use it to help fight other current bogus/bad/trumped up firearms related charges.

Read my post again. I said

What the others said and probably not a bad idea to have around (help me guys) $10,000 ready for legal fees if you get arrested while UOCing.

Check out www.opencarry.org and pay attention to the California section. This is something you study, prepare and plan for, you don't just go out and do it not knowing what you are doing.

What part of that is not advice? What part of that is giving 'ďanti what everísĒ more fuel for there fire.'?

I support LOC and shall issue CCW but UOCing without knowing all of the rules, laws, risks and having that $10,000 handy can hurt you and possibly all of us in the RKBA/pro-gun community.

Theseus
02-09-2009, 7:43 PM
I would like to say that it SHOULD not cost us, but understand that this is the way it is in America. It isn't about who is right. Money wins out in everything.

I have some stories about some of the backdoor deals some large corporations have with Governments. Johnson & Johnson for example....they are very shady....I was coordinating some medical supplies to China that were competing with J&J. . .

Lets just say we were not in business long although we had enough orders to keep us in business for 5+ years with a lovely profit margin.

If I had the money, sure....Maybe I could have fought it...but the prize doesn't go to the little guy anymore.