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pat4wd
02-06-2009, 6:38 PM
I hope it is a repost.. :D

But I have not seen it here yet..

I would buy the ticket to go .. How about you


http://milliongunownermarch.com/index.htm

oaklander
02-06-2009, 7:01 PM
These types of public demonstrations do not turn out well for gun owners. The organizers are well-intentioned, but they should talk to a PR consultant before they even *think* about doing this.

The press is very left in this country, hence things like the Million Mom March get great press, great editorials, etc..

Something like a million gun owners descending on DC would get crappy press, and crappy editorials. The press would invariable pick out the WORST people to interview.

I would not be surprised if something like this resulted in MORE bad gun laws.

The reality is that the best pro-gun work is done behind the scenes, and in the courts. It's just a political reality.

EDIT: see for yourself how the MSM spins gun ownership. Do this search - http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&rlz=1C1CHMB_enUS291US304&um=1&tab=wn&nolr=1&q=gun+ownership&btnG=Search+News - and note that any POSITIVE articles about gun ownership are generally from small newspapers in the middle of nowhere - NOT the main stream media.

pat4wd
02-06-2009, 7:13 PM
In my eyes one of the biggest problems with this country is the fact guns are becoming too Much of a behind the scenes thing.. Our county was founded with guns.. and the second amm. is here to protect them.. I my self do see the potenial for bad to come of the march if it where to happen and not done properly but at some time our country needs to be a little more upfront about gun ownership.. I think it is getting to be a time when people need to see real gun owners.. Not just the bad guys on the news

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 7:18 PM
It seems like a syncronized "get new shooters to the range" on one day would work out better. I think several million gun owners and newbies live firing would make a bigger impact then less than a million protesting.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

yellowfin
02-06-2009, 7:20 PM
Sounds like a big project is to take the press away from the left.

CCWFacts
02-06-2009, 8:43 PM
No, please don't do it. Gun owners come out looking really badly in all such things. This is a big mistake. The far-left-wing groups come out badly doing such things and we come out even worse.

7x57
02-06-2009, 9:02 PM
Sounds like a big project is to take the press away from the left.

Didn't you hear? It's called talk radio. Thus the necessity of reinstating the fairness doctrine. Monopolies do *not* like competition.

Oh, wait, you mean the press *without* the added theatre that talk radio specializes in. OK, OK, but the monopoly comment still stands.

Part of the problem may be that the right actually likes to make money when it goes into business, and newspapers surely don't do that.

7x57

Codelphious
02-06-2009, 9:52 PM
In my eyes one of the biggest problems with this country is the fact guns are becoming too Much of a behind the scenes thing.. Our county was founded with guns.. and the second amm. is here to protect them.. I my self do see the potenial for bad to come of the march if it where to happen and not done properly but at some time our country needs to be a little more upfront about gun ownership.. I think it is getting to be a time when people need to see real gun owners.. Not just the bad guys on the news

Agreed. This tiptoeing around the issue HAS to end. Did Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Hamilton and co. simply tell everyone to sit tight and just let things with Great Britain play out behind the scenes? NO! They straight up wrote the Declaration of Independence and said on behalf of all Americans, "F*** YOU, King George. Come get some!" That's exactly what we need to do.

I support this march, and ANY AND ALL pro-gun rallies, no matter who attends, because the more these happens the faster we can get back to normality.

Playing things behind the scenes is exactly why people continue to be hassled in this state over UOC, and EBRs.

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 10:18 PM
Agreed. This tiptoeing around the issue HAS to end. Did Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Hamilton and co. simply tell everyone to sit tight and just let things with Great Britain play out behind the scenes? NO! They straight up wrote the Declaration of Independence and said on behalf of all Americans, "F*** YOU, King George. Come get some!" That's exactly what we need to do.

I support this march, and ANY AND ALL pro-gun rallies, no matter who attends, because the more these happens the faster we can get back to normality.

Playing things behind the scenes is exactly why people continue to be hassled in this state over UOC, and EBRs.

I agree. It's time to stop being ashamed of guns like they're dirty sex toys. Whip it out and be proud! :D I don't like marches; that's what dirty hippies do. I really like the idea of an Appleseed type thing that happens on the same day nationwide, focusing on getting new shooters to the range. That's a great way to protray ourselves as responsible gun owners. We don't need press coverage for that. People will see it *firsthand*.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

pat4wd
02-06-2009, 10:35 PM
I have done a appleseed and as awsome as it was there was not fan fair, no one but the folks going know about it.. I have always been kinda reserved in my views but the more time goes on the more I feel it is time for responsible gun owners to be seen.. The crowd Of people I was exposed to at the appleseed was fantastic in regards to the perfect example of the normal gun owner and if you were able to get One million of us folks together it would make a huge statement in my opinion that would benifit All americans.. Guns will sooner or later be brought to the forefront as they need to be.. Since all these years of behind the scene gun battles dont seem to really be getting the public informed as to how are country was founded..

I must admit that if you have a few bad seeds in the bunch you know the focus will be on them.. So it would be a hard thing to do and make it have the effect we need.... But hiding in the courts IMO is not doing what really needs to be done..

Codelphious
02-06-2009, 10:42 PM
I agree. It's time to stop being ashamed of guns like they're dirty sex toys. Whip it out and be proud! :D I don't like marches; that's what dirty hippies do. I really like the idea of an Appleseed type thing that happens on the same day nationwide, focusing on getting new shooters to the range. That's a great way to protray ourselves as responsible gun owners. We don't need press coverage for that. People will see it *firsthand*.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Interesting point. I believe most antis... antii?... uh, Brady-types have a negative predisposition to fireams simply because they've never properly fired one. I mean, c'mon, guys... just try it. Everyone's doing it. You might like it. Here, the first 10 rounds are on me.

Hook, line, and sinker. Swish.

Linh
02-06-2009, 10:48 PM
Well hopefully ONLY law abiding citizens march but I highly doubt it.

I'm sure some anarchists group would show up and some might even ccw (it's illegal in DC right?). Then they'll activate some army unit or the national guard for this event. Then the anarchists group would act out and the media makes gun owners look like a brunch of anarchists.

Plus security for obama would need to be increased.

I don't see this turning out good. I mean a gun is meant to kill so the media would have a field day on gun owners.

nick
02-06-2009, 10:50 PM
You know, when all the various ridiculous hippie movements started, they were ridiculed,laughed at, etc. They just kept going, and now many of them are mainstream, and people are so used to them that these movements don't look as ridiculous to most as theyshould. Just some food for thought.

7x57
02-06-2009, 10:52 PM
Then the anarchists group would act out and the media makes gun owners look like a brunch of anarchists.

Well, if it's a brunch of anarchists nobody can yell at you for starting a food fight!

7x57

Linh
02-06-2009, 10:54 PM
The last thing we need is for someone to be arrested for firearms violations.

This was from their website so I hope things turn out well but I'm not attending since well I don't like large groups of people.

The only large group of people I left safe with were ones in camo.

nick
02-06-2009, 10:55 PM
The last thing we need is for someone to be arrested for firearms violations.

This was from their website so I hope things turn out well but I'm not attending since well I don't like large groups of people.

The only large group of people I left safe with were ones in camo.

Umm, that'd be a coup :p

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 11:00 PM
You know, when all the various ridiculous hippie movements started, they were ridiculed,laughed at, etc. They just kept going, and now many of them are mainstream, and people are so used to them that these movements don't look as ridiculous to most as theyshould. Just some food for thought.

They still look incredibly ridiculous to me... I know plenty of regular Joes who react at the sight of riot police tear gassing hippies the same way a little girl reacts towards a gifted pony.

The one big weakness of protests and marches are agent provocateurs. Of course instead of smashing windows and burning cars to get negative attention and justifying police abuse, an agent provocateur in our march would probably find the nearest media representative and spout off racial bigotry.

Given this factor, I think we still need to maintain any events in a venue where troublemakers can be ejected by the organizers. Hard to do on a march on a public street.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

nick
02-06-2009, 11:04 PM
Ah, yes, it is a pretty good show. Hippie protests getting tear gassed, that is. Not as much fun as watching their "happenings" though.

As for agent provocateurs, lets see... We got bothpresent and former military and LEOs. I'm sure between themthey can set up an effective way of quickly dealing with issues.

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 11:13 PM
Ah, yes, it is a pretty good show. Hippie protests getting tear gassed, that is. Not as much fun as watching their "happenings" though.

Happenings? Like a hippie dance? Ever see a wet dog shake itself dry? Now imagine a sweaty hippie doing the same thing on a dance floor... :ack2:

As for agent provocateurs, lets see... We got bothpresent and former military and LEOs. I'm sure between themthey can set up an effective way of quickly dealing with issues.

True. I wouldn't expect violent trouble. I would still be worried about quick stealth interviews though.

"Sir, why do you have guns?" "I keep guns because the (minority group) are going to come across the border, and were going to..."

*That* would undo everything. When the media does interviews of gun owners they will wait for hours if they have to until they find the kookiest one. I've seen them do it first hand.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

sorensen440
02-06-2009, 11:15 PM
we need to have people less scared of gun owners not more.

nick
02-06-2009, 11:19 PM
Happenings? Like a hippie dance? Ever see a wet dog shake itself dry? Now imagine a sweaty hippie doing the same thing on a dance floor... :ack2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSEaHyzbqTA&feature=related

nick
02-06-2009, 11:22 PM
Oh, and this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIULIJxVr7A&feature=related

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 11:30 PM
Oh, and this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIULIJxVr7A&feature=related

Thanks for posting the second one. The first one was going to send me to bed with nightmares...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

nick
02-06-2009, 11:34 PM
I just decided to have mercy on a fellow Calgunner :p

DDT
02-07-2009, 1:31 AM
I agree. It's time to stop being ashamed of guns like they're dirty sex toys.

Well, they do both belong in the nightstand out of reach of children. Just don't get them confused when you need either one or the other.

KWA-S
02-07-2009, 4:37 AM
Well, they do both belong in the nightstand out of reach of children. Just don't get them confused when you need either one or the other.

Heh, I read a news article about a cop (New Jersey/New York?) that used his sidearm as a sex toy. It turned out to be loaded and discharged. Fortunately, his wife only received mild injuries, and he was suspended without pay.

CAL.BAR
02-07-2009, 7:40 AM
In my eyes one of the biggest problems with this country is the fact guns are becoming too Much of a behind the scenes thing.. Our county was founded with guns.. and the second amm. is here to protect them.. I my self do see the potenial for bad to come of the march if it where to happen and not done properly but at some time our country needs to be a little more upfront about gun ownership.. I think it is getting to be a time when people need to see real gun owners.. Not just the bad guys on the news

I wholeheartedly agree. Guns and gun owners have been driven "underground". Just look on this board. Whenever the question is asked "do you own. . . whatever" the responses are usually, "wouldn't you like to know" or "no- just lost them all in a boating accident". Meanwhile gun owners spend their time wondering and worrying about how to scurry to the range without getting stopped, searched and arrested, much less talk openly about guns or the rights of ownership with "non-gunners" The press is almost always bad for gun owners. Even in stories where armed citizens come to the rescue there is no mention of how great it is that we have the guns to so defend ourselves and communities. Then there is the unfortunately large cross over between gun lovers and those "worst to interview" (we all know who they are). So unfortunately, a public face on gun ownership is going to be very difficult.

yellowfin
02-07-2009, 9:59 AM
It isn't as difficult in other states as it is here. The problem that continues is that here gets projected as the norm- which is total garbage- and it starts to affect the outside. Doesn't it bother you how the reporters unfamiliar with us don't even try to consult other areas to see how it is there?

ptoguy2002
02-07-2009, 10:09 AM
http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh355/Aerial/catdriver.jpg

ptoguy2002
02-07-2009, 10:10 AM
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r150/betsmorris/96400dogballkj0hx5.jpg

.454
02-07-2009, 11:32 AM
We either do this Million Gun Owners March NOW or we can do it AFTER, like the Brits did:

qGVAQOUi6ec

Which one do you think it's more effective?

pat4wd
02-07-2009, 11:59 AM
We either do this Million Gun Owners March NOW or we can do it AFTER, like the Brits did:

qGVAQOUi6ec

Which one do you think it's more effective?



Yea, Lets just hide behind the courts:rolleyes:.. thanks for the very Good video.. I will sent it to many..

12voltguy
02-07-2009, 12:09 PM
We either do this Million Gun Owners March NOW or we can do it AFTER, like the Brits did:

qGVAQOUi6ec

Which one do you think it's more effective?

from the replies here, I think they want to wait like the Brit's did:rolleyes:

.454
02-07-2009, 2:50 PM
from the replies here, I think they want to wait like the Brit's did:rolleyes:

OMG, OMG, just imagine what the media will say about us...better keep our mouths shut, otherwise we will be painted as out of touch gun slinging crazed people.

Serfs. :chris:

pat4wd
02-07-2009, 2:59 PM
What I did like about the video you posted was the people it showed.. Just normal people saying "we want our guns back" not cars burning, People fighting, Yelling and cursing.. If a million gun owner march was like that here it would speak VOLUMES to the people who need to see it.. Could it happen? I hope so.. We all need to make a email campaine that tells people in a Non gunnut way, "Learn your history About our nation and how it was founded, Learn to enjoy and value guns before they are no more"

Kid Stanislaus
02-07-2009, 3:26 PM
Agreed. This tiptoeing around the issue HAS to end. Did Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Hamilton and co. simply tell everyone to sit tight and just let things with Great Britain play out behind the scenes? NO! They straight up wrote the Declaration of Independence and said on behalf of all Americans, "F*** YOU, King George. Come get some!" That's exactly what we need to do.

Jefferson, Franklin, et.al., did not live in an age of mass media that was almost totally dominated by left wingers.

pat4wd
02-07-2009, 3:40 PM
Jefferson, Franklin, et.al., did not live in an age of mass media that was almost totally dominated by left wingers.

Yes, But us as american people let it get the way it is now, slowly.. Back in the day the Left wingers loved guns just as much as the right wingers.. We need to start changing it back.. People, Pussi footing and hiding behind the scenes hoping that the courts agree that we have a second ammendment is not not enough.. we really need to educate all the people who don't know about guns and the history that goes along with it.. We need to bring it too the forefront with a level head, and a passion that people can see is genuine and not for the wrong reasons..

.454
02-07-2009, 4:55 PM
Jefferson, Franklin, et.al., did not live in an age of mass media that was almost totally dominated by left wingers.

Right...:rolleyes:
They lived in an age when they could have been tried for treason against the King of England and hanged or imprisoned for life.

phobos512
02-07-2009, 6:37 PM
Right...:rolleyes:
They lived in an age when they could have been tried for treason against the King of England and hanged or imprisoned for life.

And STILL they didn't give in. What does that say about the people of this era?

CCWFacts
02-07-2009, 6:48 PM
*That* would undo everything. When the media does interviews of gun owners they will wait for hours if they have to until they find the kookiest one. I've seen them do it first hand.

Yes, exactly. They will find the one who is nuttiest and provoke him into doing or saying the nuttiest thing they can find. They'll find the one guy who is a member of the American Nazi Party and get him on camera about he needs a gun because of homosexuals and non-whites and whatever...

And then the viewers will assume that the other thousands of people there are similar or sympathetic to his views, because they don't get interviewed.

These things are awful and we should not attend them, support them or encourage anyone to go to them. We should discourage such misguided events from happening.

12voltguy
02-07-2009, 6:57 PM
Yes, exactly. They will find the one who is nuttiest and provoke him into doing or saying the nuttiest thing they can find. They'll find the one guy who is a member of the American Nazi Party and get him on camera about he needs a gun because of homosexuals and non-whites and whatever...

And then the viewers will assume that the other thousands of people there are similar or sympathetic to his views, because they don't get interviewed.

These things are awful and we should not attend them, support them or encourage anyone to go to them. We should discourage such misguided events from happening.


another guy for option 2:rolleyes:

Codelphious
02-07-2009, 7:39 PM
Yes, exactly. They will find the one who is nuttiest and provoke him into doing or saying the nuttiest thing they can find. They'll find the one guy who is a member of the American Nazi Party and get him on camera about he needs a gun because of homosexuals and non-whites and whatever...

And then the viewers will assume that the other thousands of people there are similar or sympathetic to his views, because they don't get interviewed.

These things are awful and we should not attend them, support them or encourage anyone to go to them. We should discourage such misguided events from happening.

You are absolutely correct. We shouldn't ever speak of guns, look at guns, openly carry guns, touch or use guns because someone somewhere might get the wrong impression of us.

Get real.

A right not exercised is a right lost.

pat4wd
02-07-2009, 9:08 PM
You know.. the fact is 99.9% of firearm owners are great people.. If these 99.9% would start speaking up and showing there faces it would have to be seen.. It is all about the numbers..You speak about this Possible thought of a march as if you know.. fact of the matter is you know nothing.. there is room for things to look bad for sure.. But if enough americans speak up they will be heard.. And while this work is being done you can stand on the sidelines and watch it happen.. If you dont have the courage to stand up for what you believe then I believe you stand for nothing.. you are a fellow gun owner.. And I respect you for that.. But maybe, Just maybe, something can be done.. something can be organized.. you say you have seen this happen before but nothing big like this has happened before?

Organized is the Key word.. It would take a huge effort By Alot of people to pull this off.. I think positive results can come from this with the right attitude, purpose, and organization..

Lets say 1 million people showed up.. Good hard working americans, people who value there country and fear what their government is doing.. They would have to be seen.. because the weirdos would be outnumbered 100,000
to 1.. I cant say for sure anything could work like this but I think it is possible to have good come from this.. Since you KNOW this wont work why dont you give us americans the answers.. Because hiding behind the court doors is not working IMO and at least these people are trying to figure out a way to get the word out..

7x57
02-07-2009, 9:41 PM
The basic logical flaw in this thread is a false dichotomy. It is simply not true that the only options are to march now or march later. There is plan C: do other things besides marching now. That, in fact, is pretty much what The Right People have been doing.

I swear, gun owners behave as though all effort is good effort and it's never possible to screw things up worse by doing the wrong thing than the Brady Bunch can do on purpose.

7x57

pat4wd
02-07-2009, 9:49 PM
The basic logical flaw in this thread is a false dichotomy. It is simply not true that the only options are to march now or march later. There is plan C: do other things besides marching now. That, in fact, is pretty much what The Right People have been doing.

I swear, gun owners behave as though all effort is good effort and it's never possible to screw things up worse by doing the wrong thing than the Brady Bunch can do on purpose.

7x57

How wrong I think you are.. there is so much more than a march.. As I have stated many times in this thread.. the thing is, it is possible good could come from it. Lets hear the good ideas then.. i know I have been telling every person I come in contact with about the appleseed project, I invite fellow co workers to go shooting, I Try to organize shooting events for our boyscout troops, and many more.. What do you do.. Tell us. the brady bunch wants to know

Linh
02-07-2009, 10:21 PM
Well worse case senario I'm still keeping at least one gun cause I'll be putting in my application to Interpol.

But seriously though I hope everything turns out well. While I'll be hard at work when it happens cause we can't all take leave. Someone gotta work to support the welfare system.

It's better if the media talks to someone that makes sense then someone that doesn't have a high school education, so I hope they talk to someone that is smart and makes sense. Also it would be better if there were minorities marching cause the media will spin it to make it a racial thing.

So how many calgunners are seriously considering going?

pat4wd
02-07-2009, 11:08 PM
Someone gotta work to support the welfare system.

aint that the truth


It's better if the media talks to someone that makes sense then someone that doesn't have a high school education, so I hope they talk to someone that is smart and makes sense. Also it would be better if there were minorities marching cause the media will spin it to make it a racial thing.

So how many calgunners are seriously considering going?

It is a scary thing for sure our wonderful media.. Just like the video about englund.. You damn well know NBC or CBS did not do that piece

N6ATF
02-07-2009, 11:23 PM
:dupe: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=130837

dustoff31
02-08-2009, 6:42 AM
Here are a couple of things to think about on this subject.

1. Isn't it interesting that people will hold marches and demonstrations in support of other people's rights, i.e. gay marriage, illegal aliens, criminals, etc. And then find all sorts of reasons not to do those things in support of their own rights.

2. The court case most significant to restoring 2A rights for Californians, did not take place in California. Had it not occurred, most things would be essentially unchanged, and that is assuming that incorporation takes place.

motorhead
02-08-2009, 1:14 PM
i have very mixed feeling on this. traveling to the east coast has never been an option for me anyway. i might participate in something more local but i'm afraid the business world refuses to stand still long enough to allow me an extended enough hiatus to join in the festivities. the press will probably make every effort to play this the wrong way. last of all, remember that the posse comitatus act doesn't apply in d.c., reference the "bonus march" for historical precedent of that.

CitaDeL
02-08-2009, 2:02 PM
<Sighs>

The only circumstances under which we should have an armed million man march on Washington D.C. is to remove our enemies from power and eliminate all doubt that we mean business about this "shall not be infringed" stuff.

But I do believe we already have our armed million man march- maybe its not all at once and all in the same place, but it is easily as effective. Every day there are people who carry firearms and demonstrate that it isnt camo and plaid wearing bucktoothed red necks that carry weapons for self-defense.

We have ambassadors who are being the example without bursting on the 11 o'clock news raving about secret societal conspiracies, white supremacy, or heaven forbid, protecting themselves from the impending zombie invasion. The strategy of normalizing gun owners and demonstrating that gun ownership does not predispose one to homocide or stupidity has already been laid out- all we need now is the numbers of responsible willing 2A activists to go out and represent.

1859sharps
02-08-2009, 5:13 PM
First. In theory, it would be nice to visually show congress in a peaceful/non over throw the government way that there are a lot of people out there who believe the 2nd amendment means we the people get to have arms to protect our selves.

Now, back to reality. At this time, this is a bad, bad, very bad idea. A public relations disaster just waiting to happen. We have years of public relations work to do(and un do) before something like this would have any snow ball's chance in hell of coming out a positive.

Two reasons why I personally believe the idea of a million gun owner march should be shelved.

#1 How many remember the militia movement in the 90's? Scared the crap out of everyone (gov, media, middle undecided) and NOT in a good way. The wrong type people ended up getting a majority of the press. One of my definitions of the wrong type is the neo-nazi/kkk types. Do you want them and their mesg representing you? If the media had to choose between a KKK representative or a suite and tie type from silicon valley to give screen time to, who do you think they will choose?

#2 To my knowledge non of the other Million marches ever got a million people to show up. Can you hear the media/brady center now. see, only a couple hundred thousand showed up, backs what we have been saying majority of people support gun control.

no, this is a bad idea. one I hope dies quickly before it damages all the progress made over the last couple years.